Boycott Denmark & Norway

[PuffnScruff]

as i said, i am sick of people using freedom of speech to justify offending and insulting other people, had the example i have stated actually happened, i m sure no one will be saying: "it's offensive but that's freedom of speech".

again, i didn't mean to sound mean, nor to offend no one, but no one seem to mind that 1.3 billion people were offfended by these cartoons.

you dont seem to mind that your a hypocrite

 

[Khaled]

I disagree.

You only look at the picture of Muhammed and the bomb, but refuse to even think why such a picture has been drawed. - It seems like all muslims have gone into some defensive stance, and just labels everything anti islam.

Does he think that Islam is a ticking bomb?
Does he think Muhammed has been abused by extremists?
you get the picture.

How do you know what the artist wanted to illustrate with such a picture? It can be viewed different by billions of people.
Instead of trying to understand or atleast see the point, yall jump out and label the pictures Anti Islam, and yells out that its an attack on every aspect of Islam, when thats hardly what is meant by the picture.

and as i sidenote, yes the pictures are offensive, so dont try to start a discussion with me about that.

please...

i don't care what he thinks, all i care about is the message he's trying to pass.
I know he offended a lot of people who didn't do anything to him.

another thing, you're right, this can be viewed different by a lot of people, but what do you care?? You're not the one that is going to suffer the consequences (not yet anyway)

i wanted to drop the discussion here, but i just heard on TV, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah, just said that "we perceive these cartoons now published by three countries as a declaration of war on islam.And THERE will be No LIMITS by BORDERS nor nationalities preventing us from defending our prophet"

translation, shit's gonna hit the fan, and are you ready to pay the price just because some dumb reporter chose to insult 1.3 billion people for some lame obscure hidden point he's trying to make?
...wait a minute... it doesn't matter to you because at the end, we're the ones who will be blamed and labeled as terrorists...

 

[Minardi]

i don't care what he thinks, all i care about is the message he's trying to pass.
I know he offended a lot of people who didn't do anything to him.

Sure he did, we arent arguing this, what im trying to say is that i feel muslims too often go into an defensive stance and attack back on almost everything, labeling it anti islam, when thats clearly not the case with, as an examble some of the cartoons.

Its really simple, just at it, and move on! it aint that hard.

another thing, you're right, this can be viewed different by a lot of people, but what do you care?? You're not the one that is going to suffer the consequences (not yet anyway)

I see this as an attack on freedom of speech/expression in my country! you dont get it?! some newspaper publishes 12 cartoons and all of a sudden muslim leaders want our prime minister to censor our medias? you dont see the problem in that? why should we treat muslims different from all other religions?

i wanted to drop the discussion here, but i just heard on TV, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah, just said that "we perceive these cartoons now published by three countries as a declaration of war on islam.And THERE will be No LIMITS by BORDERS nor nationalities preventing us from defending our prophet"

translation, shit's gonna hit the fan, and are you ready to pay the price just because some dumb reporter chose to insult 1.3 billion people for some lame obscure hidden point he's trying to make?
...wait a minute... it doesn't matter to you because at the end, we're the ones who will be blamed and labeled as terrorists...

Lots of country's in Europe have already published the pictures now to show us, freedom of speech and expression support, because some intollerent muslim fanatics feel like killing people because of cartoons doesnt really tell me anything else then that those people have been born way to late to even fit into a modern world, maybe they should call Doc, and ask for the year 1500.

And please tell me why someone who threatens innocent people by thier lives shouldnt be labelled as a terrorist, im interested in knowing your answer. :thumb:

 

[Khaled]

I see this as an attack on freedom of speech/expression in my country! you dont get it?! some newspaper publishes 12 cartoons and all of a sudden muslim leaders want our prime minister to censor our medias? you dont see the problem in that? why should we treat muslims different from all other religions?

show me one major newspapers offending Christians and/or Jews, the way they just trashed islam.

again, i got a lot of negative reps from this thread tryin to prove that there's a difference between freedom of speech and plain insults:woah:

you can't offend someone and expect him to like you just because there's freedom of speech. the Danes are free to do whatever they want, but muslims are also free to retaliate with boycott. It's not whether it's right or wrong or legal to insult people, but what did you expect??? Even if you do it "legally", when you offend people, your relationship with them will suffer.

Lots of country's in Europe have already published the pictures now to show us, freedom of speech and expression support, because some intollerent muslim fanatics feel like killing people because of cartoons doesnt really tell me anything else then that those people have been born way to late to even fit into a modern world, maybe they should call Doc, and ask for the year 1500

look at it this way, if countries still declared war today, this is how a war declaration on Islam would sound like. And this is how it was perceived by a lot. If you declare war on innocent people, how can you be shocked if people reply by threatening to kill innocent people.

And please tell me why someone who threatens innocent people by thier lives shouldnt be labelled as a terrorist, im interested in knowing your answer. :thumb:

not sure who you are referring to.
Some innocent muslims perceived these cartoons as a threat, is the newspaper that published them a terrorist organization???
if you're referring to Nasrallah's comments, he said:"nothing will prevent us from defending our prophet", it's no more a threat than the cartoons.

 

[The.Menace]

I agree with what Minardi said. It's a cartoon, not more not less. Some might laugh at it, some might be pissed but IN NO WAY we should accept those actions by islamistic countries. THIS is called freedom of speech, we don't have 2 listen 2 other countries and what they might think. It's silly. Those are cartoons and IF YOU ALL (muslims) wouldn't make a big deal about it, noone would actually talk about it or know that those cartoons exist. Fuck that.

 

[Khaled]

IF YOU ALL (muslims) wouldn't make a big deal about it, noone would actually talk about it or know that those cartoons exist. Fuck that.

i agree with that, and when i saw the first thread, i barely thought about it, but if some people want to boycott, it's their rights also.

 

[Minardi]

show me one major newspapers offending Christians and/or Jews, the way they just trashed islam.

you can't offend someone and expect him to like you just because there's freedom of speech. the Danes are free to do whatever they want, but muslims are also free to retaliate with boycott. It's not whether it's right or wrong or legal to insult people, but what did you expect??? Even if you do it "legally", when you offend people, your relationship with them will suffer.

So your saying Christians as an example havent been "trashed" by the media? have you seen southpark? monty python? simpsons? alot of cartoons make fun of Christians and other religions. Do you think that Christians arent being offended by it?

What about this picture? :

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/olv-bloteborsten.jpg

a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts

There are lots of examples!

The whole difference is that i dont see leaders in christian countries ban or censor that type of stuff, nor do i see people afraid of doing so.

look at it this way, if countries still declared war today, this is how a war declaration on Islam would sound like. And this is how it was perceived by a lot. If you declare war on innocent people, how can you be shocked if people reply by threatening to kill innocent people.

Come on now, so pictures of your prophet that offends innocent people is a war declaration? and justifies threatening real innocent people. You gotta remember that everyone else then the artists and the newspaper is considered innocent, including me.

not sure who you are referring to.
Some innocent muslims perceived these cartoons as a threat, is the newspaper that published them a terrorist organization???

Do you even know what terror is?? it isnt about offending people.
please look up the word.

And also, stop trying to throw over our heads, that publishing cartoons can be compared to some kind of terror act, because Its not.

if you're referring to Nasrallah's comments, he said:"nothing will prevent us from defending our prophet", it's no more a threat than the cartoons.

Let me qoute you :

"translation, shit's gonna hit the fan, and are you ready to pay the price just because some dumb reporter chose to insult 1.3 billion people for some lame obscure hidden point he's trying to make?
...wait a minute... it doesn't matter to you because at the end, we're the ones who will be blamed and labeled as terrorists..."

You indicated terrorism from that qoute, not me, thats why i answered as i did.

 

[Khaled]

So your saying Christians as an example havent been "trashed" by the media? have you seen southpark? monty python? simpsons? alot of cartoons make fun of Christians and other religions. Do you think that Christians arent being offended by it?

What about this picture? :

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/olv-bloteborsten.jpg

a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts

There are lots of examples!

The whole difference is that i dont see leaders in christian countries ban or censor that type of stuff, nor do i see people afraid of doing so.

1st, you mentioned Southpark?? Simpsons?? this is entertainment, it's not political, You couldn't give me a newspaper...
by the way, that drawing was done in retaliation to the cartoons published, and after the beginning of the contraversy, by sme guy who was offended by the cartoons. The pic doesn't have an insulting or hatefull message.

Come on now, so pictures of your prophet that offends innocent people is a war declaration? and justifies threatening real innocent people. You gotta remember that everyone else then the artists and the newspaper is considered innocent, including me.

accusing people of being terrorists IS a war declaration. Since the western world is going through a war on terror.

And also, stop trying to throw over our heads, that publishing cartoons can be compared to some kind of terror act, because Its not.

i never said that

Let me qoute you :

"translation, shit's gonna hit the fan, and are you ready to pay the price just because some dumb reporter chose to insult 1.3 billion people for some lame obscure hidden point he's trying to make?
...wait a minute... it doesn't matter to you because at the end, we're the ones who will be blamed and labeled as terrorists..."

You indicated terrorism from that qoute, not me, thats why i answered as i did.

you got this all wrong
I said that "we" (innocent muslims) will be "labled" as "terrorists" and suffer the consequences because some morone like that reporter hides behind "freedom of speech" to provoque real terrorists organizations.

now tell me, how many innocent muslims have to die to protect your freedom of speech, freedom which is ironically used to offend these same innocent muslims...


i hope that's clear, cause i don't feel like explaining everything again

 

[TecK NeeX]

You are missing the point. No one ever disputed that the pictures can be offensive. What pisses me off is the outrage that followed over 1 newspaper publishing political cartoons.

One newspaper or 1000 it's the same damn thing.

But saying the holocaust was a myth isn't exactly an opinion. It happened. If he were to say the Germans were justified in trying to destroy the evil race of Jews, that's an opinion, yes. Saying it didn't happen is just stupid.

That is still called freedom of speech buddy, His opinion on the holocaust is it didn't exist, how the fuck is that not an opinion?

There you go. Basically, the right to speak your clout on the matters. Not posting pictures of people's mothers, which has jack all to do with freedom of speech. And the caricatures that stirred this commotion still being political cartoons, it makes them freedom of speech, because the creators have "the right to criticize religious and politicals ideas" .

Drawing extremely offensive pictures and speaking your 'clout' on the matters are 2 totaly different things, we are talking about freedom of speech here not freedom to draw . say whatever the fuck you want about Islam that is your opinion and your right to express how you feel about the faith. but going as far what we saw on those pictures knowing just how much it is against our religion is not freedom of speech it's just plain hate.

I bet millions of women all over the world feel pretty damn offended by Islamic ideals that requires them to stay home and feed children. But guess what? Since there is freedom of religious expression the old muslim men are allowed to think all that they want. And you too. And you. And you.

No there are none, what goes on in an Islamic household is nobody's business but the owners of that home, that is called privacy genious. if a couple enjoy oral sex in their home i dont see how another couple who are against it would be offended by it. they don't do it why should they give a shit? They're married, they're husband and wife, they chose how to live their lives.

So do Islamic couples, if the husband provides the family financialy while the wife takes care of the house and children that's there business, not mine, not anybody's and definetly not yours. no offending going on here.

If Muslims constanly urge western couples to live the way they live i can see how that can offend them, but none of that shit is taking place. they keep it too themselves

Some Islamic ideals offend me, or my father. But we don't attack whole nations over it. We don't judge the entire people of Iran by the acts of 1 retarded leader. No, we do not.

you're so full of shit, why is it any of your business how Muslims go on about their lives islamicly? i sure dont care how bhuddists, christians, sikhs, jews live their lives, why should you? as long as their religious lives do not interfere with mine and yours they can live how ever they want to live. lets cut the bullshit shall we?

Yet because of two political cartoons the whole Muslim world is in uproar like there never has been such a heinous blasphemy in the history of the world.

Of course, and the silent ones should stand up and voice their anger as well, we take this shit seriously, we call it freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of reaction, freedom to protest and freedom to demonstrate.

Can you not see how retarded this is?

Oh I definetly can!

 

[TecK NeeX]

So your saying Christians as an example havent been "trashed" by the media? have you seen southpark? monty python? simpsons? alot of cartoons make fun of Christians and other religions. Do you think that Christians arent being offended by it?

Hey Einstein, if I remember correctly The Simpsons, Southpark and Monty Python are owned and run by americans and perhaps Christians themselves. when an Islamic Nation does something similar to those mentioned shows oh i gaurantee you there would be a world wide christain outrage.

What about this picture? :

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/olv-bloteborsten.jpg

a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts

I dont believe for a minute that picture was done by a Muslim. if it was, Muslims should protest against this picture as well, I know in Egypt they protested against that picture as well. Only an uninformed so-called Muslim by name only would draw a disrespectful and offensive picture of Maryam (Pbuh) such as that one. We muslims believe in Mary and we respect and love her just as much as we respect and love all prophets.

Do you even know what terror is?? it isnt about offending people.please look up the word.

Yeah Art Terror

 

[Valeoz]

[Freedom to Protest]lol Teck NeeX you're trying to justify something way too hard. So stop it!!![/Freedom to Protest]

[Freedom of Reaction]Art Terror? Those pictures were in no way fearful. Did Muslims really get scared?[/Freedom of Reaction]

 

[The.Menace]

So do Islamic couples, if the husband provides the family financialy while the wife takes care of the house and children that's there business, not mine, not anybody's and definetly not yours. no offending going on here.

What a dude is drawin somewhere in Europe is his buisness, not yours.

That is still called freedom of speech buddy, His opinion on the holocaust is it didn't exist, how the fuck is that not an opinion?

It's not an opinion cause it's proven wrong. Anyway, you ask us to respect his wrong opinion while we should stop drawin cartoons?


Over all, this is just silly. This is a cartoon, so stop it. 80% of those guys that complain and burn flags wouldn't even find Norway on a damn map.

 

[Sebastian]

That is still called freedom of speech buddy, His opinion on the holocaust is it didn't exist, how the fuck is that not an opinion?

this statement alone made clear that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

i suggest everyone ignores this guy.

 

[Minardi]

Jordan has just published the pictures! thats huge for me.

"Muslims, be smart.

What hurts Islam the most, these cartoons, a terrorist cutting the throat of his hostage, or the suicidebomber blowing himself up at a wedding?"

And aint it right? why dont we see huge protests against terrorist organisations instead?

ohh, and Teck, you also need to look up the word terror.... "Art terror" :laugh:

 

[TecK NeeX]

What a dude is drawin somewhere in Europe is his buisness, not yours.

Its my business when they publish them to the whole world, it's not my business if they kept the drawings to themselves, i wouldn't give a shit if he had a 100 of them hanging on his wall, when the shit gets out of the house it becomes everyones business.

It's not an opinion cause it's proven wrong. Anyway, you ask us to respect his wrong opinion while we should stop drawin cartoons?

When did i ask you to respect his opinion? i said If they can draw and say whatever the fuck they want then so should the everybody else.

this statement alone made clear that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

i suggest everyone ignores this guy.

Lol

 

[Minardi]

1st, you mentioned Southpark?? Simpsons?? this is entertainment, it's not political, You couldn't give me a newspaper...
by the way, that drawing was done in retaliation to the cartoons published, and after the beginning of the contraversy, by sme guy who was offended by the cartoons. The pic doesn't have an insulting or hatefull message.

Ohh, so entertainment as in a cartoon/comedy movie cant be political intended?
but a cartoon in a newspaper can? Its the same thing, just a different media.

And i bet you, there are some articles that offends christians in newspapers from time to time, just because i couldnt find one in like 10 mins doesnt really prove your point.

Isnt Mary's bare breasts offending to alot of christians? i think so.

accusing people of being terrorists IS a war declaration. Since the western world is going through a war on terror.

Wich people did the artist accuse of being terrorist? you assume that he meant all muslims because it has muhammed and a bomb on his head. I could argue that what he meant is that muhammeds words are being abused by extremists. You see my point?

i never said that

Then i dont understand this qoute of you :

"not sure who you are referring to.
Some innocent muslims perceived these cartoons as a threat, is the newspaper that published them a terrorist organization???"

To me, thats implying that what the newspaper had done, could be compared to terror acts, and thereby labelling them a terrorist organization. Im sorry if i got it wrong, but thats how i read it.

you got this all wrong
I said that "we" (innocent muslims) will be "labled" as "terrorists" and suffer the consequences because some morone like that reporter hides behind "freedom of speech" to provoque real terrorists organizations.

now tell me, how many innocent muslims have to die to protect your freedom of speech, freedom which is ironically used to offend these same innocent muslims...

i hope that's clear, cause i don't feel like explaining everything again

I respect your opinion, but i cant really see how innocent people die because of our freedom of speech. As i see it, innocent people died in Iraq and Afghanisten because of thier leaders, and the people behind them.

 

[Khaled]

Ohh, so entertainment as in a cartoon/comedy movie cant be political intended?

it can but it's not in Southpark and The Simpsons...
Unless you think Southpark producers have a political agenda...

And i bet you, there are some articles that offends christians in newspapers from time to time, just because i couldnt find one in like 10 mins doesnt really prove your point.

take all the time you need, you can't give me any danish newspaper inciting people to attack the jews, and criticizing All christians and All jews.

there's a difference between plain insult and constructive criticism. If you say Islam is a bad religion because it's being abused, i understand, If you show facts to support your arguments, OK but you label all muslims as terrorists...
and yes, the cartoons are labelling all muslims as terrorists, he's not making fun of some Sheikh or imam.
you could argue all day what the painter intended, but the fact is that the message was a clear accusation of all muslims as terrorists.

I respect your opinion, but i cant really see how innocent people die because of our freedom of speech.

everytime you provoque AlQuaeda etc..., innocent people will suffer. I would like to see you use your "freedom of speech" against muslims when suicide bombers are living next door to you.

As i see it, innocent people died in Iraq and Afghanisten because of thier leaders, and the people behind them.

that's a whole different issue treated in several other threads...

 

[Khaled]

Jordan has just published the pictures! thats huge for me.

"Muslims, be smart.

What hurts Islam the most, these cartoons, a terrorist cutting the throat of his hostage, or the suicidebomber blowing himself up at a wedding?"

And aint it right? why dont we see huge protests against terrorist organisations instead?

can u quote your source, cuz i didn't see that in any jordanian newspaper...

anyway:

What hurts Islam the most, these cartoons, a terrorist cutting the throat of his hostage, or the suicidebomber blowing himself up at a wedding?

you realized how stupid that quote is?? don't you??

some muslims are murderers... it's ok if we attack all muslims.

 

[Minardi]

it can but it's not in Southpark and The Simpsons...
Unless you think Southpark producers have a political agenda...

I believe some of the writers have used political views in some of the series.

take all the time you need, you can't give me any danish newspaper inciting people to attack the jews, and criticizing All christians and All jews.

You cant find a newspaper inciting what you just wrote with muslims either, im sorry.

there's a difference between plain insult and constructive criticism. If you say Islam is a bad religion because it's being abused, i understand, If you show facts to support your arguments, OK but you label all muslims as terrorists...
and yes, the cartoons are labelling all muslims as terrorists, he's not making fun of some Sheikh or imam.
you could argue all day what the painter intended, but the fact is that the message was a clear accusation of all muslims as terrorists.

So tell me how an artist should paint "contructive arguments" into a picture, you need to remember its a drawing! you have to judge by yourself what the artist wanted to tell, it may be right or wrong what you think, but only the artist know, unless he publishes the meaning.

And about the picture, to me it doesnt label all muslims terrorists.

everytime you provoque AlQuaeda etc..., innocent people will suffer. I would like to see you use your "freedom of speech" against muslims when suicide bombers are living next door to you.

To me thats a losers mentality. Give up freedom of speech because some cowards threaten us? :laugh:

that's a whole different issue treated in several other threads...

I thought you led the discussion that way with your qoute :

"now tell me, how many innocent muslims have to die to protect your freedom of speech, freedom which is ironically used to offend these same innocent muslims..."

As i cant see why innocent muslims die by cartoons.

 

[Minardi]

can u quote your source, cuz i didn't see that in any jordanian newspaper...

The weekly newspaper Al-Shihan

you realized how stupid that quote is?? don't you??

some muslims are murderers... it's ok if we attack all muslims.

To me it isnt stupid. If the reason why muslims are so mad about those cartoons, is that it labels all muslims as terrorists;

Then why dont we see the same outrage when terrorists use Allah and your religion to justify killings of innocent people?