Boycott Denmark & Norway

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#61
Khaled said:
i understand freedom of speech, but think about that, would you allow someone to publish naked pictures of your mother just because it's freedom of speech?? (don't get offended, i m just making a point)
first off dont ever talk about my mother.

second, your point really doesnt make any sense and has nothing to do with this discussion

third, my mother would never pose for naked pics so i wouldnt have to worry about that.

fourth, even if my mother did pose nude for pics it wouldnt be up to me to allow another person to publish those pics, that would be up to her or not.

last, i think you should apologize to me for your comment. i would never , ever, bring up yours or anyones mother in a thread and you should show me that same amount of respect
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#62
TecK NeeX said:
Hey internet boy stay on topic, you of all Tupacboard lifers should know that




and while you're at that, you might as well second my reply to Bereal




yeah that was useless, but not nearly as useless as the statement made by Jyllands saying they're intention was not to offend Muslims, that was beyond stupid and into a whole new realm of idiocy. It was an obvious attack against Islam, Why Islam of all religions? why not draw pictures of all religious figures from all known religions? Denmark and Norway are christian countries, why not draw offensive pictures of the present dominant religion and see how they react?

That's also just about as useless as drawing a picture of a black man on his knees blowing a white dude with a smile on his face and his thumbs up saying "niggers love to suck cock" then, a day later release an article saying "it was not meant to offend the black population"

When black comedians get up on stage and poke fun at white people, how do they avoid outrage from the white race? by following his white jokes with black jokes.

i really can't believe that i have to go this far to get this shit through some you




How exactly do you know that it can slightly offend Muslims? are you Muslim? Can I, a Muslim know how a devout Bhuddist feels like after coming across a defaced, vandalized statue of Bhudda? of course not and neither can you. you're a nobody, so i suggest you lay off your wishful thinking of 'knowing everything'




Wow are you the same duke from before? you were alot brighter several months back, do you expect the drawings to offend a portion of the Islamic population? Again, until you're a Muslim you haven't got the slightest idea of how offensive those drawings are, OK? dont come in here throwing your 'as ifs' like you know where we stand on the drawings of prophets etc. Also, we're not reacting 'as if' every western country has declared war on the Muslim faith, just a couple of them ;)



Yeah well, the President of Iran had every right to give his opinion regarding the holocaust by calling it a myth. so then why did the whole western world condemn his remarks? Is he not qualified to practice freedom of speech that you people so love to flaunt?

how about all countries start practicing their freedom of speech by insulting each other, belittle each others culture, religion and way of life, that will surely result in a world wide peace that we so crave, fantastic way of building bridges to understand and learn about the so many different cultures and religions.

You are missing the point. No one ever disputed that the pictures can be offensive. What pisses me off is the outrage that followed over 1 newspaper publishing political cartoons.

"Yeah well, the President of Iran had every right to give his opinion regarding the holocaust by calling it a myth. so then why did the whole western world condemn his remarks? Is he not qualified to practice freedom of speech that you people so love to flaunt?"

I agree there is a big grey area of what can be considered freedom of speech and what not. But saying the holocaust was a myth isn't exactly an opinion. It happened. If he were to say the Germans were justified in trying to destroy the evil race of Jews, that's an opinion, yes. Saying it didn't happen is just stupid.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#63
TecK NeeX said:
Yeah well, the President of Iran had every right to give his opinion regarding the holocaust by calling it a myth. so then why did the whole western world condemn his remarks? Is he not qualified to practice freedom of speech that you people so love to flaunt?

how about all countries start practicing their freedom of speech by insulting each other, belittle each others culture, religion and way of life, that will surely result in a world wide peace that we so crave, fantastic way of building bridges to understand and learn about the so many different cultures and religions.

I have just seen this and think I need to reply.

I hate the way people say "You People" as if we are fighting, or that we believe in different things. I wasn't really thinking when I wrote freedom of speech. I can see why you find it offensive, and I believet there should be some kind of punishment. But the uproar from the Middle East, and the boycott of a whole country is ridiculous .

I don't consider Muslims to be different from myself, except they believe in something I consider to be bullshit, but then as do all religions. And I certainly don't refer to Muslims as Them People or You people. I guess I'm not a racist though.
 
#64
PuffnScruff said:
first off dont ever talk about my mother.

second, your point really doesnt make any sense and has nothing to do with this discussion

third, my mother would never pose for naked pics so i wouldnt have to worry about that.

fourth, even if my mother did pose nude for pics it wouldnt be up to me to allow another person to publish those pics, that would be up to her or not.

last, i think you should apologize to me for your comment. i would never , ever, bring up yours or anyones mother in a thread and you should show me that same amount of respect
^^cool,:mad:
that's exactly how most muslims reacted to the cartoons...

my point is perfectly relevant, since we're talking about freedom of speech, and where is it off limits...


and sorry for sounding disrespectfull, but again, i was just making a point, and this is how disrespectfull these cartoons are to some.
 

PuffnScruff

Well-Known Member
#65
Khaled said:
^^cool,:mad:
that's exactly how most muslims reacted to the cartoons...

my point is perfectly relevant, since we're talking about freedom of speech, and where is it off limits...


and sorry for sounding disrespectfull, but again, i was just making a point, and this is how disrespectfull these cartoons are to some.
talking about a woman you do not know (my mother) and a political cartoon are not the same. my mother should never have been mentioned in this thread. its not cool.

your point is bullshit. and if you can not find another way to make your point with out bringing in someones mother into the discussion then you sir, are a fucking child.
 

Cown

Active Member
#67
Fuck a cartoon and fuck this bullshit for being blown totally out of proportion. You shove some one, you get run the fuck over! Nice world we live in, may it all burn in hell and us along with it.

Peace
 
#68
PuffnScruff said:
talking about a woman you do not know (my mother) and a political cartoon are not the same.
it's exactly the same, most of the people here are hypocrityical, talking about freedom of speech and supporting it as long as insults are directed towards others. but when you're the ones feeling disrespected, then "it's not the same"
 
#69
PuffnScruff said:
talking about a woman you do not know (my mother) and a political cartoon are not the same. my mother should never have been mentioned in this thread. its not cool.

your point is bullshit. and if you can not find another way to make your point with out bringing in someones mother into the discussion then you sir, are a fucking child.
Calm down he is just speaking freely
 
#70
Boycott Denmark, Norway & France

Fuckin pigs

First it was the Danish, Then the Norwegians and now is the Fench? :fury: dammn. I wonder whose next??? Action is really necessary here before things gets out of control. Infact it is out of control now.

French daily prints anti-Islam cartoons

A French newspaper has reproduced a controversial set of caricatures, originally published in Denmark and decried in the Muslim world as blasphemous to the prophet Mohammed.


The Paris daily France Soir, on Wednesday, printed the dozen cartoons, explaining that it chose to do so to illustrate the polemic sparked by their original publication, in the Danish Jyllands-Posten paper last September.



Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Danish prime minister, had expressed alarm on Tuesday at the wave of anger in the Muslim world prompted by the caricatures.



"We are up against uncontrollable forces. It will take a huge effort to calm things down," he told Danish media after the offices of the paper which first published the controversial cartoons were evacuated following a bomb scare.

The bomb threat came as Muslim anger over the 12 cartoons, said to depict the Prophet Mohammed, boiled over into a diplomatic crisis threatening Danish trade relations with the Muslim world.



Rasmussen insisted that his government considered the growing dispute "extremely serious."



The French paper said it had decided to reprint them "not from an appetite for gratuitous provocation, but because they constitute the subject of a controversy on a global scale which has done nothing to maintain balance and mutual limits in democracy, respect of religious beliefs and freedom of expression".



According to France-Soir, "these 12 drawings could appear anodyne," but their publication, "which has tested the limits of the freedom of expression in Denmark has engendered a wave of indignation at anger in the Muslim world."
------------------------------------------------------------------

Waiting for someone to come again and say it's freedom of speech
 
#71
Khaled said:
it's exactly the same, most of the people here are hypocrityical, talking about freedom of speech and supporting it as long as insults are directed towards others. but when you're the ones feeling disrespected, then "it's not the same"
You see the whole difference is that you 2 can speak about it, Puff doenst go out and burn your national flag, boycut your countries products, and send bomb threads to your home because of it.

Freedom of speech should be supported by any, with said, it doesnst mean that people have to be mean to eachother and start abusing it.

We are not discussing wether or net freedom of speech can be disrespectful to someone, because obviously it can, but rather these actions wich has been taken to stop freedom of speech.
 
#72
Minardi said:
You see the whole difference is that you 2 can speak about it, Puff doenst go out and burn your national flag, boycut your countries products, and send bomb threads to your home because of it.

Freedom of speech should be supported by any, with said, it doesnst mean that people have to be mean to eachother and start abusing it.

We are not discussing wether or net freedom of speech can be disrespectful to someone, because obviously it can, but rather these actions wich has been taken to stop freedom of speech.
We are not only discussing your goverments and citizens action from what happened. We are not only discussing the Boycott. We are discussing the whole package here.
 
#73
Minardi said:
You see the whole difference is that you 2 can speak about it, Puff doenst go out and burn your national flag, boycut your countries products, and send bomb threads to your home because of it.

Freedom of speech should be supported by any, with said, it doesnst mean that people have to be mean to eachother and start abusing it.

We are not discussing wether or net freedom of speech can be disrespectful to someone, because obviously it can, but rather these actions wich has been taken to stop freedom of speech.

as i said, i am sick of people using freedom of speech to justify offending and insulting other people, had the example i have stated actually happened, i m sure no one will be saying: "it's offensive but that's freedom of speech".

again, i didn't mean to sound mean, nor to offend no one, but no one seem to mind that 1.3 billion people were offfended by these cartoons.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#74
"The French paper said it had decided to reprint them "not from an appetite for gratuitous provocation, but because they constitute the subject of a controversy on a global scale which has done nothing to maintain balance and mutual limits in democracy, respect of religious beliefs and freedom of expression". "

And they are right too. It's because of the whole upheavel that these cartoons get so much attention.

And yes, it's still freedom of speech. Maybe the definition of that needs to be ran by some of you again. So here goes (taken from Wikipedia, which gave a decent short rundown of what it really means):


"
In democratic countries, freedom of speech is taken for granted, though the exact degree of freedom varies between countries and jurisdictions. This freedom generally includes:
  • the right to criticize the political system and political leaders, including those in power;
  • the right to criticize public and corporate policies;
  • the right to criticize religious and political ideas.
Still, in no country is freedom of speech absolute. Limits include, for instance, the prohibition of libel and slander (or defamation) – that is, publishing or saying things that are detrimental to one person in an "unfair" way, though, again, the exact limits of what is prosecutable vary. Some democratic countries prohibit so-called "hate speech" – speech that is intended to stir up aggression against certain groups for religious, racial, etc. reasons."



There you go. Basically, the right to speak your clout on the matters. Not posting pictures of people's mothers, which has jack all to do with freedom of speech. And the caricatures that stirred this commotion still being political cartoons, it makes them freedom of speech, because the creators have "the right to criticize religious and politicals ideas" .

Oh, and before anyone feels smart. No, political cartoons are not "hate speech". Just because they criticize something you stand for does not warrant that.


You don't like it? Feel offended?


Tough


Fucking


Luck


I bet millions of women all over the world feel pretty damn offended by Islamic ideals that requires them to stay home and feed children. But guess what? Since there is freedom of religious expression the old muslim men are allowed to think all that they want. And you too. And you. And you.

Some Islamic ideals offend me, or my father. But we don't attack whole nations over it. We don't judge the entire people of Iran by the acts of 1 retarded leader. No, we do not.


Yet because of two political cartoons the whole Muslim world is in uproar like there never has been such a heinous blasphemy in the history of the world.

Why do the muslims on here think these kind of caricatures are made? Surely, it should have nothing to do with the fair and balanced way the muslim world reacts to political cartoons? Why do people think the Jyllands Posten decided to test whether "fear of retribution" would limit the things that their cartoonists wanted or dared to make?

Because "they fucking feel like it"?

Because they were bored?

Because they are all such huge muslim haters?


No. Why? Exactly because of this. They could probably feel this uproar coming, fruitless as it may seem.


Things have changed in Europe. 9/11, the attacks in Madrid, the Iraq war. All have ties to politics, religion. Europe in general has developed a overall "unwillingness" to criticize or overall "political correctness" towards the Muslim faith since then, alongside a growing feel of distrust and perhaps even hate towards Islam, although the "haters" are falling far short of the amount of people that see that Islam in itself has little to do with terrorism. Moreso than to other faith through the last decennium. People are afraid to be seen as hating on the muslim faith. People are afraid to criticize for a number of reasons.

And that's why Jyllands Posten ran this. And what do they get? The exact reason why people are afraid to criticize are further re-affirmed by death threats, political crises, trade boycotts and international tremors.


Can you not see how retarded this is?
 
#75
Duke said:
There you go. Basically, the right to speak your clout on the matters. Not posting pictures of people's mothers, which has jack all to do with freedom of speech. And the caricatures that stirred this commotion still being political cartoons, it makes them freedom of speech, because the creators have "the right to criticize religious and politicals ideas" .
drawings of the prophet holding a bomb is hardly constructive political criticism. Islam has been criticised a lot on this board but people don't get this kind of reaction.. can you tell me why?
the drawings portray all muslims as terrorists and thus, they incite hate. you don't consider it to be hate speech because you'r opinion doesn't matter, you were not the one targeted and labeled as terrorist.


You don't like it? Feel offended?


Tough


Fucking


Luck
way to go, this is the mentality that will solve the problem.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#76
Khaled said:
drawings of the prophet holding a bomb is hardly constructive political criticism. Islam has been criticised a lot on this board but people don't get this kind of reaction.. can you tell me why?
the drawings portray all muslims as terrorists and thus, they incite hate. you don't consider it to be hate speech because you'r opinion doesn't matter, you were not the one targeted and labeled as terrorist.




way to go, this is the mentality that will solve the problem.
The drawings do not portray all muslims as terrorists. And they are still no hate speech. Hate speech is something really, obvious, trust me, and this ain't it.



Isn't it true, though? The drawers of the 2 actually offensive cartoons probably don't like your religion.

What are you gonna do about it? Boycott their native country?


There will always be people that aren't going to like your religion, your clothes or your house or your political ideals.

Deal with it. It's not like this is a new concept.
 
#77
Duke said:
The drawings do not portray all muslims as terrorists.
it''s a caricature of the prophet Mohammad, so it's aimed at all muslims. it might not be hate speech, bt its definitely a libel.


What are you gonna do about it? Boycott their native country?
i don't care about Danemark, and i didn't boycott anything, as it's clear that people overreacted, but when when people attack me (and they did, since according to the drawings, i'm muslim so i am terrorist) i have to fight back.

There will always be people that aren't going to like your religion, your clothes or your house or your political ideals.
i''m not asking them to like my religion, but a little respect is not too much to ask.
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#78
Khaled said:
it''s a caricature of the prophet Mohammad, so it's aimed at all muslims. it might not be hate speech, bt its definitely a libel.




i don't care about Danemark, and i didn't boycott anything, as it's clear that people overreacted, but when when people attack me (and they did, since according to the drawings, i'm muslim so i am terrorist) i have to fight back.



i''m not asking them to like my religion, but a little respect is not too much to ask.

No, you're right, some of those cartoons are offensive to Muslims. I never disputed that. What i do dispute (as do you) is the uproar about it. And the reaction of muslims worldwide.


I want to tread on some thin ice for a second here. I just had a short talk with my father about this, and he pointed out that the worldwide muslim community should liberalize a bit. Not in their religious values, but in their tolerance. After all is said and done, those caricatures ARE free speech. And political cartoons are abundent in Western countries. They tend to heckle all. They spare nothing. And to get so upset about them shows a lack of understanding and maybe fear.

What i talked about in my long post, the political correctness in Western countries right now regarding Islam, is very relevant now. After 9/11 and the whole terrorism thing, Islam has become a very touchy subject.

And while i think that every religion deserves a measure of respect, this should not hold back any open discussion or criticism about Islam, or any religious or political view.

Tony Blair proposed a "anti religious hate" bill recently. It failed big time (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-2019947,00.html).

It's easy to see why. Most Westerners respect religions. Really, they do. But if there is 1 thing Westerners value more its the ability to say whatever they wanna say about a certain situation or view.

I do not think religions should be ridiculed. Nor do i approve of the insulting of muslims, christians, buddhists etc. But outlawing such things will put such a mark of silence on the general discussion that it should be avoided at all costs.\


My final word about this matter, and then i hope i can finally shut up since i've spent way too many words on this stupid topic, and tbh this is mainly aimed at the muslims, is that we live in a free world. And there are going to be people that do not like your religion. There are going to be people that criticize your religion, whether they are justified in doing so or not. And instead of panicking, blowing things out of proportion and threatening with death threats and economical boycotss, they should engage in discussion with "the Western world". Don't bottle it up and attack back everyone that might make a stab at your religion. Be more open minded and realize that there are still 4.7 billion people out there that aren't muslims, and that they may hold a view different to yours.
 
#79
Khaled said:
drawings of the prophet holding a bomb is hardly constructive political criticism. Islam has been criticised a lot on this board but people don't get this kind of reaction.. can you tell me why?
the drawings portray all muslims as terrorists and thus, they incite hate. you don't consider it to be hate speech because you'r opinion doesn't matter, you were not the one targeted and labeled as terrorist.
I disagree.

You only look at the picture of Muhammed and the bomb, but refuse to even think why such a picture has been drawed. - It seems like all muslims have gone into some defensive stance, and just labels everything anti islam.

Does he think that Islam is a ticking bomb?
Does he think Muhammed has been abused by extremists?
you get the picture.

How do you know what the artist wanted to illustrate with such a picture? It can be viewed different by billions of people.
Instead of trying to understand or atleast see the point, yall jump out and label the pictures Anti Islam, and yells out that its an attack on every aspect of Islam, when thats hardly what is meant by the picture.

and as i sidenote, yes the pictures are offensive, so dont try to start a discussion with me about that.
 

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