Film & TV Lost - The Season 4 Thread *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Preach
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1) Jacob? I'm not sure, but wait until next episode before you worry too much about that question. I don't know what's going on right now or what's happening because I have been steering clear of spoilers, but I know and we could all guess that something Jacob-ey is coming up. We remember Hurley saw Christian Shepard in Jacob's cabin in a rocking chair, we remember Jack saw Christian both in this episode and early in season 1, we know Christian had Vincent go wake up his son because he had work to do (this was released as a mobisode between s03 and s04). And we know Jack and Claire are sisters. I bet this has something to do with Jacob but I don't know what. Maybe he told her to leave the baby, knowing it would get off the island that way.
2) You probably didn't catch it but she said something like "I made a promise". It sounded to me like she did something she had agreed to do for him prior to leaving the island. I bet it had to do with his daughter. Either that, or we get a big surprise about Sawyer in the next few eps.
3) Who do you mean? Everyone on the island? I can debunk that. The producers have said specifically on several occasions that the lostaways aren't dead or in purogatory, and it won't turn out to be a dream in the end. It is "real". As for the Oceanic Six, I highly doubt so. Remember that these people probably never learn why you can see things on the island. Those are things that the people who stay behind might find out. Michael couldn't kill himself in Manhattan because the island wouldn't let him, and if the island can stop a gun from going off at his head, it can probably project Charlie to Hurley. I don't think all the apparitions of dead people on the show will even be explained. I think it's supposed to be up to you to believe whether or not Hurley is crazy, whether the island sent Charlie's dead spirit, or whether the island is manipulating Hurley by making him think he sees Charlie, to get him to do what it wants.
Btw, i remember everyone back in seasons 1 and 2, made a big deal about how the island was a sort of conscious entity in its own right. I don't think so anymore. I think that whatever the "island" stops you from doing, or whatever it tries to get you to do, it's not actually the island doing it. Rather, maybe it's something to do with Jacob. I think "Jacob" is a name for all the dead people on the island.
2) You probably didn't catch it but she said something like "I made a promise". It sounded to me like she did something she had agreed to do for him prior to leaving the island. I bet it had to do with his daughter. Either that, or we get a big surprise about Sawyer in the next few eps.
3) Who do you mean? Everyone on the island? I can debunk that. The producers have said specifically on several occasions that the lostaways aren't dead or in purogatory, and it won't turn out to be a dream in the end. It is "real". As for the Oceanic Six, I highly doubt so. Remember that these people probably never learn why you can see things on the island. Those are things that the people who stay behind might find out. Michael couldn't kill himself in Manhattan because the island wouldn't let him, and if the island can stop a gun from going off at his head, it can probably project Charlie to Hurley. I don't think all the apparitions of dead people on the show will even be explained. I think it's supposed to be up to you to believe whether or not Hurley is crazy, whether the island sent Charlie's dead spirit, or whether the island is manipulating Hurley by making him think he sees Charlie, to get him to do what it wants.
Btw, i remember everyone back in seasons 1 and 2, made a big deal about how the island was a sort of conscious entity in its own right. I don't think so anymore. I think that whatever the "island" stops you from doing, or whatever it tries to get you to do, it's not actually the island doing it. Rather, maybe it's something to do with Jacob. I think "Jacob" is a name for all the dead people on the island.
^^ No, not the Losties on the Island, those that got off it. Did you even pay attention to what Hurley was talking about? I got the impression he was saying that everybody that got off of the Island, the 6, are "dead."
I think it would be a nice flip on the "are they dead on the Island" theory, that no, the people on the Island are alive, but those that got home are "dead."
It also ties in with the coffin/funeral in the first of the flash forwards.
I dont think its true, but it would be a nice flip on all of the internet rumors.
I do think it is safe to say we will move into supernatural territory and not just explain shit as hallucinations, simply because the Asian dude can talk with the dead which he has shown to be true.
So we now know that the super natural is involved as well as time travel, two things the producers said that wasnt and turns out it was, at least to an extent. So I really think at this point all bets are off.
I think it would be a nice flip on the "are they dead on the Island" theory, that no, the people on the Island are alive, but those that got home are "dead."
It also ties in with the coffin/funeral in the first of the flash forwards.
I dont think its true, but it would be a nice flip on all of the internet rumors.
I do think it is safe to say we will move into supernatural territory and not just explain shit as hallucinations, simply because the Asian dude can talk with the dead which he has shown to be true.
So we now know that the super natural is involved as well as time travel, two things the producers said that wasnt and turns out it was, at least to an extent. So I really think at this point all bets are off.
This episode was kinda lame. The next episode looks great, though. WTF at Horace from DHARMA chopping wood (btw he said he's been dead for 12 years... so Ben kidnapped Alex and had her holed up somewhere for four years before the Purge and Danielle/DHARMA never ran into each other?).
My theory: I think Jacob's really just the collective consciousness of the island, including people who die on it. The electromagnetic phenomena of the area are caused by the living island's "bio"electrical activity. I hope I'm not right, though. I want Jacob to be a human being.
Poll: How do you feel about Lost right now? I love it, but it's definitely not the same show anymore.
My theory: I think Jacob's really just the collective consciousness of the island, including people who die on it. The electromagnetic phenomena of the area are caused by the living island's "bio"electrical activity. I hope I'm not right, though. I want Jacob to be a human being.
Poll: How do you feel about Lost right now? I love it, but it's definitely not the same show anymore.
So far this season is a lot better than last season, I wouldnt say its not the same show anymore though. To me its like a movie the middle and final acts are never like the start. I just hope they can tie together all the loose ends before its all said and done and the outcome is satisfactory.
I think it is obvious the smoke monster is some sort of weapon, not really "alive" so to speak.
My number one question is still the fucking four toed giant statue and the whole time travel thing.
But there are so many mysteries they seem to have just "dropped" and forgotten, I hope it is not a case of them just not knowing how to explain them and moving on. I almost get the feeling the scripted a whole bunch of "what the fuck?" stuff in seasons 1 and 2 hoping to be able to explain it or tie it all together and now because they cant they just let it all go... I hope I am wrong.
I think it is obvious the smoke monster is some sort of weapon, not really "alive" so to speak.
My number one question is still the fucking four toed giant statue and the whole time travel thing.
But there are so many mysteries they seem to have just "dropped" and forgotten, I hope it is not a case of them just not knowing how to explain them and moving on. I almost get the feeling the scripted a whole bunch of "what the fuck?" stuff in seasons 1 and 2 hoping to be able to explain it or tie it all together and now because they cant they just let it all go... I hope I am wrong.
which mysteries? and don't say kate's horse 
the only outstanding mysteries to me are the others, the electromagnetism, the time travel, the smoke monster and what/where the island is. imo all those mysteries are still very current.
and you can't compare purogatory to time travel and the supernatural. they never straight debunked those theories. one feather turns to ten hen on the internet. i can, however, source a podcast where they specifically say that the "clue" to the whole plot won't be that people are dead/in purogatory/another "cheap" thing like that. i just watched silent hill last night, and that may be the reason, but the whole thing with the O6 being dead isn't really a good twist to me. we'll see what happens though.
a major theme on the show is faith vs. science. they present different explanations for things from two viewpoints, and it's up to you to decide what to believe in. they have also explained, in podcasts that i can source with time (or you can check lostpedia for a podcast archive), that this is a core theme and is reflected in the "battle" between locke and jack. locke and rose's cures could be acts of a supernatural power or the act of a scientific phenomenon. you are supposed to be asking that question.
as for the hurley thing, yeah i got what he said, but you also have to remember that hurley is not only in a mental institution, but he was in one for seeing things before the island even entered his life. even though on the island he seems to ask the "right questions", he's supposed to be borderline crazy. so when hurley says "we're all dead" i'm thinkink it's more likely that it's crazy-talk. i don't necessarily buy that one. besides, they have this thing where if something is said or done in an episode, you can bet your ass it's not what it seems. i remember you considered maybe everything was a dream after hurley's "dave" episode. when hurley says they're all dead they are all likely not.
the only outstanding mysteries to me are the others, the electromagnetism, the time travel, the smoke monster and what/where the island is. imo all those mysteries are still very current.and you can't compare purogatory to time travel and the supernatural. they never straight debunked those theories. one feather turns to ten hen on the internet. i can, however, source a podcast where they specifically say that the "clue" to the whole plot won't be that people are dead/in purogatory/another "cheap" thing like that. i just watched silent hill last night, and that may be the reason, but the whole thing with the O6 being dead isn't really a good twist to me. we'll see what happens though.
a major theme on the show is faith vs. science. they present different explanations for things from two viewpoints, and it's up to you to decide what to believe in. they have also explained, in podcasts that i can source with time (or you can check lostpedia for a podcast archive), that this is a core theme and is reflected in the "battle" between locke and jack. locke and rose's cures could be acts of a supernatural power or the act of a scientific phenomenon. you are supposed to be asking that question.
as for the hurley thing, yeah i got what he said, but you also have to remember that hurley is not only in a mental institution, but he was in one for seeing things before the island even entered his life. even though on the island he seems to ask the "right questions", he's supposed to be borderline crazy. so when hurley says "we're all dead" i'm thinkink it's more likely that it's crazy-talk. i don't necessarily buy that one. besides, they have this thing where if something is said or done in an episode, you can bet your ass it's not what it seems. i remember you considered maybe everything was a dream after hurley's "dave" episode. when hurley says they're all dead they are all likely not.
I seem to remember, although I may be wrong, that the powers that be said time travel would not be used, and not it obviously is.
Theres a lot of mysteries still unanswered:
01. The four toed statue
02. Locke's father appearing out of no where
03. The rest of the Others
04. Jacob
05. The smoke monster
06. Why people seem to heal and come back from the dead on the Island
07. The time travel thing
08. Why pregnant women die on the Island
09. Why no one can find the Island
10. Where is the Island?
11. What is the Island?
12. What was the black sand/powder around Jacob's cabin.
13. How can Jacob's cabin move?
14. What is Locke's purpose?
15. One that will never be answered and was a good one was did Walt "make" things happen with his mind? I think they were going there with it but then Walt's growth spurt and axing on the show fucked up that plot point.
Theres plenty of others, care to add to them guys? Im sure I have forgotten lots.
Theres a lot of mysteries still unanswered:
01. The four toed statue
02. Locke's father appearing out of no where
03. The rest of the Others
04. Jacob
05. The smoke monster
06. Why people seem to heal and come back from the dead on the Island
07. The time travel thing
08. Why pregnant women die on the Island
09. Why no one can find the Island
10. Where is the Island?
11. What is the Island?
12. What was the black sand/powder around Jacob's cabin.
13. How can Jacob's cabin move?
14. What is Locke's purpose?
15. One that will never be answered and was a good one was did Walt "make" things happen with his mind? I think they were going there with it but then Walt's growth spurt and axing on the show fucked up that plot point.
Theres plenty of others, care to add to them guys? Im sure I have forgotten lots.
We could get semantical. Maybe they meant no time travel where your body goes back in time. If that's the case, they didn't lie lol. But if I try not to be a troll, I hear what you're saying. They once said the show would never have a root in science. Well there's lots of science in the show, but it's pseudo-science. So long as it sounds believable on screen they are willing to use it. So they lied there. They also said there would be no time travel, or well people claim they said it but I never saw an interview. On the contrary, I remember Hurley and Sayid listening to a radio and Hurley commenting it could be from any-time. I remember there was a big question about time and how it affected the island since early on. I remember that they used to debunk or go vague when met with questions that related to time and time-travel and they would joke a lot, obviously trying to keep it under wraps while making us insecure about what to think. But they said on two occcasions that the end-game won't be a cheap cop-out. They are not all dead, they are not all in purogatory.
I mean, if Jack and Kate are dead, how do they live together. We see Jack interact with an assistant or a co-worker or something. How could he, if he was dead? The theory holds no water.
Will be back, they said.
He told Locke that he was kidnapped in the middle of the day. Dragged into a car and then the next time he woke up he was there. What more explanation do you need? The others kidnapped him. Look at Ben going to Iraq to kill people. I am waging that they kidnapped him. What Ben told Locke was a part of his attempt to discourage Locke's beliefs because Locke was "special", and the Others had been waiting for him.
Are at the Temple. What is the mystery? Who they are or where they are right now? The who is probably a bigger question that won't get answered yet, the where they are right now is a mystery that will obviously come back into play.
Will obviously be featured more. I thought the end of episode ten gave away lots of what episode 11 will be about. But Jacob is back in episode 11 so sit tight. However, I believe Jacob is a big piece to the mythology like the smoke monster, and won't be fully explained yet.
Will be explained by the end of the show, but not until towards the end. It's one they're sitting on for now. Probably because the reveal is supposed to go hand in hand with a certain event that can't happen before other things take place first.
????
Mikhail is the only one who came back from the dead so to speak, and he didn't literally. He was thought to be dead but was only wounded. As for why the island has healing abilities, that is part of the greater question of what the island is.
Also a part of what/where the island is. What about time travel is a mystery to you? How it works, why it happens, how it happens?
We know the basics. By their third trimester their uterus, when scanned by some machine, looks like that of an old women even if they are young. Towards the end of the pregnancy the body starts to treat the baby as a "foreign object" and it is "detached". The process kills the mother and the baby. Now why exactly this happens is, like with the "healing aura" of the island, a part of the question of what the island really is.
These go hand in hand. If it's in another dimension, that explains the where and why, and the what, for example.
The circle of ash is a black magic sort of thing used to contain "something". It could be Jacob, the shack, or the power that lives within Jacob. The ash is there for some sort of confinement that we haven't been explained yet. It's part of the bigger question of who Jacob is, and what his relationship with Ben/the Others is.
Same as above. I would think that the shack is there because Jacob is there. I don't think Jacob exits his shack and walks around on the island, I think the shack is like his holy church that he can make appear where he wants. Basically, I don't have a theory about this yet because what we've been given is so vague, but this is a very current "mystery", I don't get why you're scared they'll drop this.
Maybe becomes relevant after all the O6 hoopla. In the end I don't think he has a "purpose". I believe it's more that he's a good asset because of him being "special". Remember Ben asked John about how his father pushing him out of the window made him feel, emotionally, when they were talking about the magic box. Maybe your specialness is not to do with your genes or anything, but with your psyche and the emotions you feel. Who knows, I have no theory here either. I don't think that, like with Heroes, they all need to fill in a role in some grand event in the future. Maybe there is, but Locke's purpose is another thing I don't get why you think you won't get an answer to. He's alive and around so.
They claim they always knew Walt would grow. We can say a lot of things, but for all the things they may have lied about having planned, I would think they knew what would happen. They keep saying just believe them when they tell you that they knew Walt would grow and planned for it. They've also said that by the end of the season you're supposed to know what happened in between Michael and Walt sailing off and them being back in the world. Furthermore, they are not done with Walt on the show yet.
Between seasons 3 and 4 there were these mobisodes that were short 1-2 minute episodes from all across the timeline so far. One had Michael and Juliet talking in the tent they kept Michael in in the episode "3 minutes". In it, Juliet expresses that she's happy Michael is doing what they are asking and taking Walt of the island, because he is special. As if his specialness coupled with being on the island was a deadly combination. In a later mobisode, there's a scene from the Hydra station where an alarm goes off. It's cause of Walt. Juliet comes to Ben and says they should give him back, Ben declines. Ben says he's just a child, Juliet says no one will take him food or go into his room. She takes Ben outside Walt's window where a bunch of dead birds are lying. They all flew into the window. Remember the episode where Walt is struggling for his mother's attention and a bird crashes into the window, making his step dad sort of eerily worried? They did this right prior to season 4, a whole season after we last heard of Walt. Sounds like they try to maintain the plotline so it doesn't die entirely. I wonder for what purpose
I mean, if Jack and Kate are dead, how do they live together. We see Jack interact with an assistant or a co-worker or something. How could he, if he was dead? The theory holds no water.
Will be back, they said.
He told Locke that he was kidnapped in the middle of the day. Dragged into a car and then the next time he woke up he was there. What more explanation do you need? The others kidnapped him. Look at Ben going to Iraq to kill people. I am waging that they kidnapped him. What Ben told Locke was a part of his attempt to discourage Locke's beliefs because Locke was "special", and the Others had been waiting for him.
Are at the Temple. What is the mystery? Who they are or where they are right now? The who is probably a bigger question that won't get answered yet, the where they are right now is a mystery that will obviously come back into play.
Will obviously be featured more. I thought the end of episode ten gave away lots of what episode 11 will be about. But Jacob is back in episode 11 so sit tight. However, I believe Jacob is a big piece to the mythology like the smoke monster, and won't be fully explained yet.
Will be explained by the end of the show, but not until towards the end. It's one they're sitting on for now. Probably because the reveal is supposed to go hand in hand with a certain event that can't happen before other things take place first.
????
Mikhail is the only one who came back from the dead so to speak, and he didn't literally. He was thought to be dead but was only wounded. As for why the island has healing abilities, that is part of the greater question of what the island is.
Also a part of what/where the island is. What about time travel is a mystery to you? How it works, why it happens, how it happens?
We know the basics. By their third trimester their uterus, when scanned by some machine, looks like that of an old women even if they are young. Towards the end of the pregnancy the body starts to treat the baby as a "foreign object" and it is "detached". The process kills the mother and the baby. Now why exactly this happens is, like with the "healing aura" of the island, a part of the question of what the island really is.
These go hand in hand. If it's in another dimension, that explains the where and why, and the what, for example.
The circle of ash is a black magic sort of thing used to contain "something". It could be Jacob, the shack, or the power that lives within Jacob. The ash is there for some sort of confinement that we haven't been explained yet. It's part of the bigger question of who Jacob is, and what his relationship with Ben/the Others is.
Same as above. I would think that the shack is there because Jacob is there. I don't think Jacob exits his shack and walks around on the island, I think the shack is like his holy church that he can make appear where he wants. Basically, I don't have a theory about this yet because what we've been given is so vague, but this is a very current "mystery", I don't get why you're scared they'll drop this.
Maybe becomes relevant after all the O6 hoopla. In the end I don't think he has a "purpose". I believe it's more that he's a good asset because of him being "special". Remember Ben asked John about how his father pushing him out of the window made him feel, emotionally, when they were talking about the magic box. Maybe your specialness is not to do with your genes or anything, but with your psyche and the emotions you feel. Who knows, I have no theory here either. I don't think that, like with Heroes, they all need to fill in a role in some grand event in the future. Maybe there is, but Locke's purpose is another thing I don't get why you think you won't get an answer to. He's alive and around so.
They claim they always knew Walt would grow. We can say a lot of things, but for all the things they may have lied about having planned, I would think they knew what would happen. They keep saying just believe them when they tell you that they knew Walt would grow and planned for it. They've also said that by the end of the season you're supposed to know what happened in between Michael and Walt sailing off and them being back in the world. Furthermore, they are not done with Walt on the show yet.
Between seasons 3 and 4 there were these mobisodes that were short 1-2 minute episodes from all across the timeline so far. One had Michael and Juliet talking in the tent they kept Michael in in the episode "3 minutes". In it, Juliet expresses that she's happy Michael is doing what they are asking and taking Walt of the island, because he is special. As if his specialness coupled with being on the island was a deadly combination. In a later mobisode, there's a scene from the Hydra station where an alarm goes off. It's cause of Walt. Juliet comes to Ben and says they should give him back, Ben declines. Ben says he's just a child, Juliet says no one will take him food or go into his room. She takes Ben outside Walt's window where a bunch of dead birds are lying. They all flew into the window. Remember the episode where Walt is struggling for his mother's attention and a bird crashes into the window, making his step dad sort of eerily worried? They did this right prior to season 4, a whole season after we last heard of Walt. Sounds like they try to maintain the plotline so it doesn't die entirely. I wonder for what purpose
^^ Thanks for elaborating on my questions.
Two things, the black powder, I dont think it is meant to contain anything, because if it is it does a shitty job considering the cabin moves all the time.
As for Walt's birds, maybe they flew into the engine of the plane and that is why it crashed
hehehh... (Not a serious theory)
Two things, the black powder, I dont think it is meant to contain anything, because if it is it does a shitty job considering the cabin moves all the time.
As for Walt's birds, maybe they flew into the engine of the plane and that is why it crashed
hehehh... (Not a serious theory)Hermeticos :: Login
got the latest episode here first, about 25 minutes after it finished airing. it's in spanish or portuguese, but i managed to sign up. will watch it very shortly.
got the latest episode here first, about 25 minutes after it finished airing. it's in spanish or portuguese, but i managed to sign up. will watch it very shortly.
that really felt like an episode of lost. i don't know why.
DISCUSSING EPISODE 11 BELOW
"i can speak on his behalf" i hope we get flashbacks to some ben/jacob action in season 5. i was intrigued by the way locke was spoken to. he was right of course, but he was less like a guide and more like a dictator. also, the guest in the cabin... why is he told to keep it a secret? why isn't it explained for him? if this is the way jacob kept ben in the know, it's no wonder it sounded stupid whenever he said "jacob wanted it that way". jacob really has very specific requests, a lot more specific than "help me". Btw, what was with the whole "help me" thing?
Did Ben ever speak directly to Jacob or did he have a similar deal? Who appeared before Ben then? I just got a whole lot more intrigued by Jacob. Also, it's fucked that no one knows about it. Hurley tells Jack sorry that he went with Locke, but that may be because he has no clue. Maybe they should all be sorry for trying to leave in the first place.
DISCUSSING EPISODE 11 BELOW
"i can speak on his behalf" i hope we get flashbacks to some ben/jacob action in season 5. i was intrigued by the way locke was spoken to. he was right of course, but he was less like a guide and more like a dictator. also, the guest in the cabin... why is he told to keep it a secret? why isn't it explained for him? if this is the way jacob kept ben in the know, it's no wonder it sounded stupid whenever he said "jacob wanted it that way". jacob really has very specific requests, a lot more specific than "help me". Btw, what was with the whole "help me" thing?
Did Ben ever speak directly to Jacob or did he have a similar deal? Who appeared before Ben then? I just got a whole lot more intrigued by Jacob. Also, it's fucked that no one knows about it. Hurley tells Jack sorry that he went with Locke, but that may be because he has no clue. Maybe they should all be sorry for trying to leave in the first place.
It was nice to see Locke's character portrayed in a similar light to Season 2: the whole 'we should do what the island says' type mantra.
Apart from the Desmond episode this season of Lost hasn't really excited my balls.
I think the writer's strike did have an influence on this season. My hope is that these episodes are laying vague foundations for incredible future seasons; the finale may cement this feeling. None the less, shouldn't a whole series aim to do this consistently throughout, rather than an odd episode here or there?
Apart from the Desmond episode this season of Lost hasn't really excited my balls.
I think the writer's strike did have an influence on this season. My hope is that these episodes are laying vague foundations for incredible future seasons; the finale may cement this feeling. None the less, shouldn't a whole series aim to do this consistently throughout, rather than an odd episode here or there?
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