Rolling Stone Honors Rappers

[jason_g_718]

Their panel of experts is nonsense because to each his own.

Of course to each his own, but as I said, another musicians word is a lot more relevant and substantial than someone who's never made music.

Everyone has his idea of what an expert should be. Now, I am not contesting the possibility that these people were experts. But, really, what makes them experts?

The fact that they're in the same boat as the people their voting on. Who is more an expert on who the decent politicians are in Washington than their fellow politicians?

The fact that they're older than me? The fact that they've spent time in a studio? The fact that they've spent a lot time with musicians?

No. Yes, and yes.

I mean, how do you become an expert?

By going through what those legends went through. The only way you become an expert on something is to go through it.

In biology, you'd become one by reading, reading, and more reading.

You become an exert in any field by not only researching, but going through the rigors of that field.

Music was created for nothing other than to enjoy it.

I disagree. Music was also created to get emotions and feelings out and in some cases, messages.

You listen to a song and that's it. It can't be more than that. These people have turned it into math, science, and other definite subjects. They've taken out the whole purpose of music.

You're not making any sense anymore.

Not being a musician does not mean you're any less qualified to comment on a musician or any less of an expert.

I disagree.

Lets say that I am a great musician but I don't have the money to make it big. Doesn't that mean that I am still a great musician? And therefore, I can still critique a musician?

Did 50 Cent have $30 million in the bank already when he made it big? You don't make it big by having money, dogg. You make it big by having talent and exposing that talent to people in the right places.

The fact is that the people on this panel may not be experts at all.

You're being straight out ridiculous.

Besides, how can you be an expert at something that's totally based on opinion?

Yet, even though the "majority" of basketball fans saying Jordan is the GOAT is still opinion, you seem to think because "the majority" say he is, it's then fact. Seems to me like you're doing nothing but making excuses for a list you don't seem to care for.

Your logic is flawed.

No, actually, yours is, but you won't see that, so past this post, our debate is done. You're no different than any of the other children on here who always think they're right, the only difference between you and them is that you speak a little more eloquently.

You better believe that my word as a Tupac fan is more relevant than what some Pop musician said.

Why?

What if that pop musician knew Pac personally?

Listen, I don't need to be insulted by a 28 year old who raps in his basement thinking he'll become a great rapper, while at the same time arguing with kids more than ten years his junior.

Knock me for what I'm doing but you know what, how many musicians that have made it huge were told they'd never be anything?

The more people on here tell me how I'm pathetic and how I'm a "28 year old basement rapper", that just amps me up more dogg to prove you wrong, so please, keep talking shit, it fuels me.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I'd say quite a bit. When you look at his own genre, virtually every rapper coming out anymore mentions how they've been impacted by Pac. Rappers are ALWAYS giving him props and shout outs anymore. Be it incorporating his name into your song, quoting him in a lyric in your song, borrowing song concepts (Bonnie and Clyde 03), sampling his songs, having Nate Dogg sing a hook on your song that's almost identical to a hook 2pac wrote, wearing Makaveli Branded in video shoots, magazine shoots, at parties where they know the cameras will be flashing, at awards shows, wearing his clothing and then performing one of his songs while basically dressing like him (Nas). On top of that, he has recorded songs with many artists outside of the rap genre, which tells me that he had some decent impact on those outside of rap. He recorded with Madonna and Alanis for sure. I've heard people such as James Taylor call him a genius.

I said 'music in general' - as in, not rap - & yet you go write a paragraph completely about rap save three sentences. And recording songs with Madonna & Alanis does not mean he had any greater impact on music. And being called 'genius' by James Taylor counts for what....? Nothing in terms of the effect he's had on music in general.

OK, this one I MIGHT have to give you, but it's really not proveable because neither of us have the means necessary to prove our case. Although, being that Eminem is the only successful solo white rapper in the game, you might be right. Either way, considering this, I would have to say that Pac and Em in either order are the two most recognizable rappers in the world.

You're right: it's not proveable. You tried to assert that Tupac is probably the most famous rapper in the world. If you knew this was not proveable, why did you try to use it as a point?

OK, because I don't want to be misunderstood, I'm telling you ahead of time that I'm not trying to be a dick here, merely I'm just being reasonable. Do you have a way to prove that? I mean, I said myself I wasn't completely sure, but I do know Pac was ONE OF the first rappers to go diamond. I'd actually be surprised if it was Biggie.

You can check for yourself. It is a documented fact.

I disagree. For the most part, I think people take the realism of music relatively serious. Eminem said himself "music is a reflection of self". People know that's true. So, that said, people know if the artists music is fake, the artist is fake. And yes, how "real" or "fake" an artist is CAN affect their popularity and sales.

Again, I make a point about music in general - & go as far as to say 'bar rap' - & you go straight for an example from rap. And 'Eminem said himself'?? Like his word matters more than anyone elses. And no, in other areas of music, people don't care. For example, nobody cares that Johnny Cash didn't shoot people contrary to what his lyrics would have believe.

Example: Milli Vanilli. At their peak they were hotter than N Sync. They may not have sold nearly as many records, but they were hotter. However, when the record skipping incident exposed them as frauds, what happened? Yeah....case closed.

Poor example. The 'realism' we were both talking about was about art imitating life, not if someone mimed.

Same thing with Vanilla Ice. We all know what happened when he was exposed as a fake. So...tell me now that an artists authenticity has no affect on their popularity or sales.

Once again, note the 'bar rap'.

C'mon, dogg, you know that's what I meant. You know I didn't mean that literally. For real, let's be honest here. His music has done such a good job of keeping his legacy and name alive that with the exception that you don't see him doing interviews on TV or doing concerts, it IS almost like he's still alive. He's still dropping albums, and not only dropping them, but the messages in songs he wrote 10 some even 13 years ago are STILL relevant today, he was still appearing in movies AFTER his death, he's "doing collabos" with current day artists (Trick Daddy, Eminem, Benzino, Daz), he narrated his own documentary in the last year, he is still appearing on the charts now and then, of course he's getting radio play, colleges are using his interests and his writings as material for college courses at some of the most prestigious colleges in America, some people are STILL claiming that his music causes kids to do bad things, and he's still appearing in magazine and newspaper articles as the focus of the article. So, consider all of this and tell me that minus TV appearances and concerts it's not like he's still alive?

Respiration is an important part of being alive. Tupac is not respiring, therefore, it's like he's not alive.

And btw, if you can't take my word for Biggie going diamond first, then you'll need to povide me with some proof that Tupac is still getting spins across America & proof that Tupac's writings are the subject of college courses & further proof that those colleges are some of the most prestigious in America.

And to be honest, with the technology they have today, I wouldn't be against going to a 2pac concert that would feature a full, life-sized hologram of Pac on the stage.

Irrelevant.

First of all, I don't know where "over here" is. Considering your mention of The Beatles and Queen, I'm guessing maybe England? Either way, I don't know what stations are like where you're at, but in America radio stations are delegated to certain subjects. Here (America) you will NEVER hear Elvis on the same station as 2pac or Ozzy on the same station with Garth Brooks. And I know that in my area Pac gets quite a bit of play. Probably on par with any other dead musical legend. Afterall, that is ONE aspect of being a legend, is it not? Having radio rotation almost a decade after your death?

So if American radio stations are delegated 'certain subjects' & Tupac's music would not be played on the same station as rock or country acts does that mean that Tupac's music is only played on Hip Hop/R'n'B stations? If so, you can scrap that argument because it doesn't show his influence on music as a whole. Radio rotation does not make legends but I agree that it shows your influence to be still played a decade after you died. That said, if it's only on certain radio stations then it only proves the influence of that artist over that genre.

Yeah, the point is that any legend is going to be getting radio play a decade, two decades after that legendary song in question was released. Take someone like Lou Bega, creator of "Mambo #5". He is certainly no legend and where is he? Don't hear him on the dial anymore. Do you still hear songs on the radio from the 80's metal band Teezer? Nope...cuz they aren't legends. Now, I'm not saying that artists who aren't legends don't get radio play anymore, but legends will be getting CONSISTENT radio play 10, 20 years after.

Like I say, Tupac doesn't get regular radio play over here - Britain - on the main radio stations.

I agree, and I think Pac more than fits that.

I disagree. I can't see his impact on music as a whole, he never changed the musical landscape nor did he put out classic after classic.

I doubt many people outside of the country genre would consider any Garth Brooks' albums as classics, but I have several family members who are country fans and think some of his are.

But Garth Brooks wasn't on the list, was he? So it's irrelevant.

I would say most people who aren't a particular fan of a certain genre would not consider an album by one of the best artists of that said genre as a classic even if fans of the genre say it is.

Can you prove this? I mean, there are kids on here who admit to only listening to rap. As such, their opinion on what is a rock classic is invalid. However, I listen to most genres of music at least casually, & I recognize Guns 'N' Roses Appetite For Destruction album as a classic & I'm not much of fan of rock music. Then again, I might not be most people. But I might. IMO, a classic is a classic to any true music fan. If someone loves music then they can see past their genre of preference.

 

[one mc on dj]

Here you see the difference between me and calcuo and in the other thread me and Chronic...I would have dissed this muthafucka a long time ago...but yall uh just debate with him...and I respect that...

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

The fact that they're in the same boat as the people their voting on. Who is more an expert on who the decent politicians are in Washington than their fellow politicians?

Anybody outwith politics with half a brain. No matter how great a politician is, his/her peers are in the poorest position possible to judge. The opposition must rubbish him/her & their own party must support them.

No. Yes, and yes.

Having been in a studio doesn't give you a better knowledge of what is good music & who has affected music most then one who has not been in a studio.

And I've spent time with musicians. In no way does that qualify me any more than the next music lover to judge what is good music & who has influenced the music industry.

You're being straight out ridiculous.

So you consider Britney Spears to be an 'expert'?

Yet, even though the "majority" of basketball fans saying Jordan is the GOAT is still opinion, you seem to think because "the majority" say he is, it's then fact. Seems to me like you're doing nothing but making excuses for a list you don't seem to care for.

Pennypacker has made no excuses for the list. In fact, he's did the opposite & rubbished it.



And Jason, do me a favour & check the following thread. Notice my post at the top & how it is not the same one you 'quoted' me on. You might also want to notice that the post has never been edited so it is pretty obvious that you made part of that 'quote' up.

http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125560&page=2

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Calcuo pretty much summed it up. I can't wait for Jason's reply.

 

[jason_g_718]

You're right: it's not proveable. You tried to assert that Tupac is probably the most famous rapper in the world. If you knew this was not proveable, why did you try to use it as a point?

Whether or not he is "probably the most famous rapper" wasn't even the question. That's not a question, he is the most famous. The question was if he is the most recognizable. Being "the most famous" and "most recognizable" is not necessarily the same thing.

You can check for yourself. It is a documented fact.

I wouldn't know where to check the info. nor do I have time. You want to email me a link, I'd be more than happy to check it out.

Again, I make a point about music in general - & go as far as to say 'bar rap' - & you go straight for an example from rap.

Quoting someone from the genre is not "using that as an example". I quoted someone, you need to learn the difference.

And 'Eminem said himself'?? Like his word matters more than anyone elses.

Take it how you want, you miscontrew 99% of the things I say anyway, now wouldn't be any different.

And no, in other areas of music, people don't care. For example, nobody cares that Johnny Cash didn't shoot people contrary to what his lyrics would have believe.

People do care. Which is a good reason Limp Bizkit is no longer doing anything, because everyone realized Fred Durst is as fake as they come.

Poor example. The 'realism' we were both talking about was about art imitating life, not if someone mimed.

Not a poor example at all. "Realism" is "realism".

Once again, note the 'bar rap'.

Is this not a hip hop forum?

Respiration is an important part of being alive. Tupac is not respiring, therefore, it's like he's not alive.

Go look up the phrase "figuratively speaking".


And btw, if you can't take my word for Biggie going diamond first, then you'll need to povide me with some proof that Tupac is still getting spins across America & proof that Tupac's writings are the subject of college courses & further proof that those colleges are some of the most prestigious in America.

So if American radio stations are delegated 'certain subjects' & Tupac's music would not be played on the same station as rock or country acts does that mean that Tupac's music is only played on Hip Hop/R'n'B stations? If so, you can scrap that argument because it doesn't show his influence on music as a whole.

So, going by you're theory, no musician is a legend, because you'll never here a rock artist on a rap station, or a jazz musician on a country station.

You continue to prove your idiocy everytime you respond to me, and I don't even know why I continue to respond to you.

Radio rotation does not make legends but I agree that it shows your influence to be still played a decade after you died. That said, if it's only on certain radio stations then it only proves the influence of that artist over that genre.

Not at all. You can't play country music and expect to get play on a rock station. You're acting like an imbecile.

Like I say, Tupac doesn't get regular radio play over here - Britain - on the main radio stations.

Hmmm...I have some personal friends in Britain whom I've spoken to and they told me they don't know what you're listening to, but they hear Pac quite a bit. If you want me to ask them what stations they listen to, I can.

I disagree. I can't see his impact on music as a whole, he never changed the musical landscape nor did he put out classic after classic.

You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

But Garth Brooks wasn't on the list, was he? So it's irrelevant.

No he wasn't, and it's not irrelevant at all. It's the proof that whether or not music is good lies in the ear of the listener.

I'm done with you. Not even going to bother responding to your posts anymore.

 

[ARon]

Plain and Simple, Rolling Stone isn't Hip-Hop.
If A Hip-Hop magazine did the same thing the list would be totally different.

 

[jason_g_718]

Plain and Simple, Rolling Stone isn't Hip-Hop.
If A Hip-Hop magazine did the same thing the list would be totally different.

Bottom line, a hip hop magazine isn't going to list THE GREATEST 100 MUSICIANS of all time because they're a strictly hip hop publication, whereas Rolling Stone covers ALL genres.

I think a lot of people are forgetting this list isn't about rappers, it's about MUSICIANS period.

 

[RapAlot89]

Bottom line, a hip hop magazine isn't going to list THE GREATEST 100 MUSICIANS of all time because they're a strictly hip hop publication, whereas Rolling Stone covers ALL genres.

I think a lot of people are forgetting this list isn't about rappers, it's about MUSICIANS period.

And your forgetting that rollingstone on many occasions, the proof in various publications, has prooved it has minium knowledge on that genre of hip-hop. And although I respect there musical knowledge somewhat, to me them speaking on hip-hop is as about meaningful as a Rap artist recieving a grammy. So they can continue on creating musical rankings and such but avid hip-hop listener's for the most part know when it comes to hip-hop, RollingStone magazine's oppinion is close to worthless.

 

[ARon]

^Couldn't of said it better.

 

[Tonio1986]

And your forgetting that rollingstone on many occasions, the proof in various publications, has prooved it has minium knowledge on that genre of hip-hop. And although I respect there musical knowledge somewhat, to me them speaking on hip-hop is as about meaningful as a Rap artist recieving a grammy. So they can continue on creating musical rankings and such but avid hip-hop listener's for the most part know when it comes to hip-hop, RollingStone magazine's oppinion is close to worthless.

I have to correct you, it IS wothless.

 

[Salar]

The list is pretty accurate. I agree with it 100%. Beatles have sold over 107Million albums, no artist has even come close to that. They revolutionised music and rock.
Jimi Hendrix who was and still is the best guitarist of all time.
Elvis, come on now. Led Zeppelin, Nirvana?
David Bowie. If any hiphop artist can release 37 solid albums in their career then show me now!!!
Please understand that there are many different genres of music out there, and just because you listen to hiphop does not mean the whole world should. And those hiphop artists mentioned, do deserve there spot. Public enemy, NWA & RunDMC forever will remain the most influential hiphop groups of all time. They didn't revolutionise hiphop, they MADE hiphop what it is.

 

[jason_g_718]

And your forgetting that rollingstone on many occasions, the proof in various publications, has prooved it has minium knowledge on that genre of hip-hop. And although I respect there musical knowledge somewhat, to me them speaking on hip-hop is as about meaningful as a Rap artist recieving a grammy. So they can continue on creating musical rankings and such but avid hip-hop listener's for the most part know when it comes to hip-hop, RollingStone magazine's oppinion is close to worthless.

God...you people are all proving your stupidity daily. Is it that you're not paying attention, or that you just don't care?

This ISN'T ABOUT RAP MUSIC, it's about MUSICIANS. This is not a hard concept to grasp. Put RAP MUSIC out of your thought for a second and focus on MUSIC itself. It's not about rap music, it's about MUSIC PERIOD.

 

[jason_g_718]

The list is pretty accurate. I agree with it 100%. Beatles have sold over 107Million albums, no artist has even come close to that. They revolutionised music and rock.
Jimi Hendrix who was and still is the best guitarist of all time.
Elvis, come on now. Led Zeppelin, Nirvana?
David Bowie. If any hiphop artist can release 37 solid albums in their career then show me now!!!
Please understand that there are many different genres of music out there, and just because you listen to hiphop does not mean the whole world should. And those hiphop artists mentioned, do deserve there spot. Public enemy, NWA & RunDMC forever will remain the most influential hiphop groups of all time. They didn't revolutionise hiphop, they MADE hiphop what it is.

Well said, man.

 

[Zero Cool]

Personally I'd take Dylan over the Beatles and have Pac a bit higher but hey it was a pretty decent list.

 

[one mc on dj]

God...you people are all proving your stupidity daily. Is it that you're not paying attention, or that you just don't care?

wtf was that needed for?...

This is one of the reasons why threads where jason posts in turn into a huge e-beef....

And tell me I am wrong!!

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Did anyone else notice Jason running away from every point I made & not even addressing the fact that I exposed him as a complete liar?!!

 

[one mc on dj]

Did anyone else notice Jason running away from every point I made & not even addressing the fact that I exposed him as a complete liar?!!

Seriously Calcuo fuck the recognition...I say just let this guy go...Don't give him ne more reason to come back...let him leave this fucking board...I seriously get frustraded when I see yall replying to his posts....I cannot stand his posts...I don't dislike him as a person I dislike him as a member...and thats why I keep hoping he gets banned soon....But don't give him ne more reason to reply to ur posts...and in no way am I dissin you now but if ne 1 gave a fuck about how u exposed him you would have gotten props...but no 1 does..everyone is trying to be the guy that changes him...Fuck I tried to change this guy didn't work try pm'n him maybe you can get more direct answers or reactions from him...Posts only make sure other members will get involved...don't let that happen...He already got the status: CLOWN....

So don't give him more reason to come back to this board...

 

[Tonio1986]

Seriously Calcuo fuck the recognition...I say just let this guy go...Don't give him ne more reason to come back...let him leave this fucking board...I seriously get frustraded when I see yall replying to his posts....I cannot stand his posts...I don't dislike him as a person I dislike him as a member...and thats why I keep hoping he gets banned soon....But don't give him ne more reason to reply to ur posts...and in no way am I dissin you now but if ne 1 gave a fuck about how u exposed him you would have gotten props...but no 1 does..everyone is trying to be the guy that changes him...Fuck I tried to change this guy didn't work try pm'n him maybe you can get more direct answers or reactions from him...Posts only make sure other members will get involved...don't let that happen...He already got the status: CLOWN....

So don't give him more reason to come back to this board...

Fact.

:thumb:

 

[Phuntsok]

To tell you the truth i think people try to diss pac on here to try to be a rebel or something because you were on 2pacboard.com why would would you insult 2pac.