Makaveli and Biggie

[Rukas]

Truth be told I don’t think Ive really listened to Makaveli in about a year. Not because I don’t like it, quite the opposite, I like it so much it makes me more mad and sad to have lost Tupac. I didn’t really post an RIP message on the board, but damn, Jon and I were talking yesterday about how much ‘Pac really has influenced our lives in light of his son being born soon. Anyway, Makaveli is just that piece of music that moves me. I still get shivers up my spine with some tracks.

Anyway last night I was driving home from my girls house and found myself analyzing Pac’s words more rather than just feeling them. Apart from strengthening my opinion that he was underrated as a lyricist (lots of double play on the CD for example), I notice that Pac doesn’t really attack Biggie at all on the CD. He barely mentions him, one of the Outlawz mentions the King Of New York on Bomb First, but Pac doesn’t really throw any shots at Big. And that’s kind of surprising because he attacks EVERYONE else. I mean, Hit Em Up really is nothing compared to Against All Odds. You have to remember this is 96, a different time, no one really mentioned big time New York gangsters on tracks back then, let alone dissed them.

Then you have all the shots thrown at Nas, Mobb Deep, Puff Daddy and Bad Boy, Jay Z and others, but Makaveli doesn’t really mention Biggie. Kind of makes you think… Was ‘Pac just not giving a fuck about BIG or was he forgiving him?

 

[71Outlaw71]

to tell yall the truth i sometimes wonder if Pac really did diss Biggie just for the fame....

but yea makaveli is ammmmmmmmmmmmmazing

 

[Diaz]

Yea I noticed this too.... the only person that says Biggie's name on that album is that dude in the intro.

 

[Eric]

I'm sure he still had some ill feelings toward Big, but there's no way I could ever speak on what Pac was thinking. It could've been intentional not to mention him...maybe it was just irony. However, I don't see Pac being a peace maker ever.

 

[Eric]

to tell yall the truth i sometimes wonder if Pac really did diss Biggie just for the fame....

but yea makaveli is ammmmmmmmmmmmmazing

You are trippin'. Pac was shot by Big's peoples. You think anyone would take that lightly?

 

[71Outlaw71]

You are trippin'. Pac was shot by Big's peoples. You think anyone would take that lightly?

Naw im just sayin somtimes i think that because of how biggie never really dissed Pac back and..................i dunno i just sometimes wonder

 

[Rukas]

Naw im just sayin somtimes i think that because of how biggie never really dissed Pac back and..................i dunno i just sometimes wonder

Big didnt directly diss Pac back because he didnt have shit to say so he through a bunch of subliminal disses his way.

And please, drop this issue, lets not make this thread go down that road.

Come on people, prove to me you're not all a bunch of 14 year old Hit Em Up Tupac fans and have a proper discussion about the topic at hand!

 

[imported_Big_R]

Biggie dissed Pac plenty, he just goes subliminal because he thought that made him a good lyricist

 

[FATAL N FELONY]

I also don't listen to Makaveli that often, its just to real. Like Mopreme said on the Westside DVD Pac was saying he was dead like on "Hold Ya Head".

 

[EDouble]

i think he had ran the biggie shit all out with everythin else and makaveli was gona have more introspect and broader shit. but, remember it was all just a brief period that he recorded all of them makaveli tracks and he was touchin basicaly Everythin. and he didn't really have much shit left to say about or to biggie at the point and with what i think he was goin for while creating the shit.

not neccesarly the same for his last indepth interviews

 

[71Outlaw71]

I think he wasn't really giving a fuck about BIG cause it was like he moved pass that and he was on some more real type shit..........like he was takin his music to another level and really touching on EVERYTHING although he did mention BIG here and there but not too much

 

[Hankaveli]

Then you have all the shots thrown at Nas, Mobb Deep, Puff Daddy and Bad Boy, Jay Z and others, but Makaveli doesn’t really mention Biggie. Kind of makes you think… Was ‘Pac just not giving a fuck about BIG or was he forgiving him?

I think it was sort of forgiving him, he knew it was getting deep and he knew that Biggie was pretty much just a pawn, Biggie did not do anything to Pac he just was associated with Pac's Enemies.

Remember on "in His own words" when Tupac is saying that they have "These niggaz under extortion"? Biggie Singed with Badboy cause he lived in NY and did not have a Choice, Pac never wanted anyone else to have control over him so he told the black mafia "Fuck you" thus he got jacked at Quad.

Biggie and Pac could quite possibly have hooked up and really shook up the industry if they did not get killed.

and yes Pac is mad underrated as a lyricist, it drives me nuts, he got this label as not being a great lyricist but that is cause I think many did not get the double meaning to some of his shit, many of his double meanings are based on personal shit like "Look for me lost in the whirlwind" from time to time I hear something in a new way for the first time from him and realize a new double meaning to a lyric.

 

[Hankaveli]

to tell yall the truth i sometimes wonder if Pac really did diss Biggie just for the fame....

but yea makaveli is ammmmmmmmmmmmmazing

He did it for money, he had some ill feelings towards him but he was not the real enemy.

 

[Moozaliny05]

i think the beef with 2pac and biggie was blown out of proprotion anyway. Even All Eyez On Me didn't have direct disses to Biggie as well. Holla At Me was like an indirect diss. 2pac and biggie were both at the MTV Music Awards in '96 a few days before pac died and there was no drama that happened out there. So the beef was just mainly on wax. But 2pac recorded several unreleased material of disses about the biggie and badboy camp. So there could have been other songs as well on the Makaveli Album. His One Nation project was his intention to bring the east and west together but without biggie. With squashed beef with nas, i read somewhere pac didn't want against all odds on the album but suge put it on there anyway. so the only one who can answer that is pac himself unless the outlawz or people close to him know.

 

[Mongol]

Well I think that when Pac made Against All Odds - he was NOT really trying to make a banging song but tell how it went down. He dissed biggie enough on hit em up, but basically people would think he just did it to get more fame and it was not true. So here he explains in detail what he really thinks - he calls names that people didn't know at the time like Tut, Haitian Jack, Jimmy Henchman etc.
So I guess he wanted to say that it wasn;t just 2 famous rappers going at each other like kids but the shit went depper with more people behind the scenes.

I always thought that line had "BIGGIE" in it....

"Tryin to player hate on my shit, BIGGIE eat a fat dick"??!!!! but i think its YOU

 

[FreshToDeath]

I agree with Rukas. Listening to Makaveli makes me both sad and angry. Tupac died over pointless stupidity that was completely avoidable. His words were powerful, intelligent and articulate in the struggle for change. I can't imagine how advanced his material would be today, if he would even still be making music. He was working at such a frenetic pace when he was killed that his next few albums would have been amazing. He could harness so many emotions to make so many different types of songs. This is why I believe that he is the greatest songwriter ever. Just look at the tracks that leaked to the public this year. They are at least a decade old and are lyrically far superior to what today's artists are doing. He could make great songs quickly, which is a truly unique talent.
As far as what he was thinking about Biggie, who knows. Maybe Makaveli was altered after he died and before it was released. He obviously lost creative control over his work the second he died and the vultures descended in. There is no way to know if those twelve tracks in the exact way they appear are how it would have been presented if he had lived.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Maybe he was trying to kill the whole East-West media hype. I mean the East-West war was Pac vs. Biggie, not Pac vs. Jay-Z or Pac vs. Nas. I think he was just trying to shift all the focus away from that one aspect of his life and career.

 

[Hankaveli]

Maybe he was trying to kill the whole East-West media hype. I mean the East-West war was Pac vs. Biggie, not Pac vs. Jay-Z or Pac vs. Nas. I think he was just trying to shift all the focus away from that one aspect of his life and career.

yep, leave deathrow with the Beef!

 

[Rukas]

Well I think that when Pac made Against All Odds - he was NOT really trying to make a banging song but tell how it went down. He dissed biggie enough on hit em up, but basically people would think he just did it to get more fame and it was not true. So here he explains in detail what he really thinks - he calls names that people didn't know at the time like Tut, Haitian Jack, Jimmy Henchman etc.
So I guess he wanted to say that it wasn;t just 2 famous rappers going at each other like kids but the shit went depper with more people behind the scenes.

Maybe he was trying to kill the whole East-West media hype. I mean the East-West war was Pac vs. Biggie, not Pac vs. Jay-Z or Pac vs. Nas. I think he was just trying to shift all the focus away from that one aspect of his life and career.

That would only make sense if he didnt diss ANY rappers. I mean if he was trying to go deeper and go behind the scenes why still diss Nas, Jay Z, Mobb Deep, "old rappers" and Puffy?

What it seems to me like is Pac realized that Biggie was just a pawn, so he didnt need to attack him. He got at Puff who was his boss and Tut, Henchment, Hatian Jack etc, and then everyone who stuck their noses in it because they WANTED to. Sure BIG crossed Pac, but hes the only one that Pac ever dissed who didnt really have a choice in the matter. Everyone else did something because they wanted to, from setting him up to dissing him on tracks.

 

[Mr.Deuce]

in tha intro they mention him..alobng wit´mobb sleep and gay-z "notorious p.i.g...."