Israel authorizes 'severe' response to abductions

[bigmack]

If someone came into my house and wouldn't leave, and then that someone started attacking the house next door constantly over the course of 6 years, my neighbor would try to evict that person and would obviously blame me for sheltering him, aiding him, and doing nothing about him myself.

No don't go try changing what you said earlier. Idiot

I'm not sure you could have been more wrong in those 3 sentences, both logically and stating facts. If Lebanon is going to let terrorists occupy its border and attack Israel, then the Lebanese government is indirectly responsible for the terrorism.

Logically, i'm not making the rules. Facts, you have none. Terrorists, you seem confused.

Israel didn't put its whole country at risk by attacking Hezbollah or Hamas. Hezbollah and Hamas have been attacking it daily for years. Israel has already tried restraint and sacrifice. Those only embolden their enemies.

I guess you're finally admitting the kidnappings were an excuse.

So if they were attacking Israel for years,why didnt israel do anything about it? Why did they only decide to attack when 2 soldiers were kidnapped? That was the last straw, a kidnapping? do you seriously read what you type? you're a joke. i can't debate with an uninformed idiot who makes ridiculous excuses to justify terrorism. I'm not going to educate you because your poor schooling system failed to. thats why i dont post here,its full of morons like yourself who type illogical shit on a screen all day like they know something. Hey using big words or using perfect grammatical and paragraph structure don't mean you know shit.

Right. Israel's withdrawal out of Lebanon in 2000 was all part of a master plan to reoccupy and attack Lebanon in 2006...

theres 6 years post 2000 dipshit. enough time to realize you got fucked

 

[ill-matic]

I never thought I'd see something as ironic as a person calling CNN biased while linking us to stories from Al-Manar TV, which is run by Hezbollah. That's amusing.

Wow, and isn't this a bit of a double standard?

http://www.streethop.com/forum/showpost.php?p=567335&postcount=31

I could have sworn that in this post you're using an Israeli paper to argue a point

 

[ill-matic]

And also why is Israel bombing the Beirut airport, all the highways and main roads within Lebanon and fuel depots...do they even have specific targets or do they just assume that by bombarding the whole city that they will eventually raze the whole city and the Hezbollah movement with it?

 

[Morris]

During the 6 day war Israel intentionally fired on the USS Liberty not once but several times, including sending torpeo boats to fire on the vessal. Israel later claimed it to be a mistake.

Ignoring the obvious fact that deliberately attacking an American ship while at war with 3 neighbors would make no sense, there's documented proof captured by spy planes that Israel mistook the ship for an Egyptian ship. http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/07/09/uss.liberty.tapes/

And also why is Israel bombing the Beirut airport, all the highways and main roads within Lebanon and fuel depots...

Israel was initially attacking transportation routes to try to stop any method of transferring the kidnapped soldiers. Now they're attacking transportation routes to blockade Lebanon from Syria, to make sure that Hezbollah can't be resupplied by neighboring Syria.

if you think that destroying red cross van is amusing... no need to continue this conversation.

so you think Manar staged a live broadcast of a red cross van being bombed by an israeli war plane... you must be a real moron then.

After the beach incident, Palestinian programs spliced pictures of a Navy boat firing and then cut to the beach scene. I'm not going to take Hezbollah's word for anything: if you turn on the TV and see footage of injured people being helped, you will see Red Cross personnel. And if a Red Cross ambulance was targeted, the Red Cross would be trumpeting that fact across the media.

keep telling yourself that, if it makes you sleep better at night to know that the 6th strongest army in the world have such lousy accuracy, or that it can't tell the difference between the UN and Hezbollah.

Again, if someone could figure out how it would make any sense to aim at UN soldiers and personnel, then perhaps the massacre charges would hold weight. The silliest thing about all the conspiracy theories people charge Israel with is that these people admittedly can never figure out Israel's supposed motive for intentionally attacking the USS Liberty or a United Nations camp.

I guess you're finally admitting the kidnappings were an excuse.

So if they were attacking Israel for years,why didnt israel do anything about it?

Didn't you read the complaints about Israel "violating Lebanese airspace?" Israel has sparred with Hezbollah in cross border incidents, but a 2004 Security Council Resolution called for Lebanon to assert its sovereignty and disarm/disband Hezbollah. And this Hezbollah attack was clearly more brazen and serious than anything up to this point.

You forgot the part about killing a handful of soldiers in the crossborder raid, which took 5 months of planning according to Nasrallah.

Hey using big words or using perfect grammatical and paragraph structure don't mean you know shit.

Perhaps not, but failing to use good grammar makes a writer look like a fool, which is a label you certainly don't refute.

Wow, and isn't this a bit of a double standard?

http://www.streethop.com/forum/showp...5&postcount=31

I could have sworn that in this post you're using an Israeli paper to argue a point

One source is a free press institution. Al Manar is a propaganda station run by Hezbollah. I'd say that's quite a difference.

If you pick up the New York Times today, you'll see some very strong commentary criticizing the Bush administration. Haaretz is a liberal paper often critical of Israel's leadership (since they are originally right wing Likud.)

 

[Khaled]

Israel was initially attacking transportation routes to try to stop any method of transferring the kidnapped soldiers. Now they're attacking transportation routes to blockade Lebanon from Syria, to make sure that Hezbollah can't be resupplied by neighboring Syria.

Hezbollah never used the airport to transfer weapons, and it's not like you can't notice any plane takin off.

not to mention that Israel has bombed the airport like 6 times so far. its getting pathetic, its obvious israel don't have any idea what they are doing, they ran out of places to bomb, and they sstill havesn't hit any hezbollah base so far. so they keep bombing civillian infrastructure. As if Hezbollah would evacuate the soldiers tyrough the airport.

After the beach incident, Palestinian programs spliced pictures of a Navy boat firing and then cut to the beach scene. I'm not going to take Hezbollah's word for anything: if you turn on the TV and see footage of injured people being helped, you will see Red Cross personnel. And if a Red Cross ambulance was targeted, the Red Cross would be trumpeting that fact across the media.

then how about LBC tv station, owned by the lebanese forces, allied to israel. are they doing anti israel propaganda too??

Again, if someone could figure out how it would make any sense to aim at UN soldiers and personnel, then perhaps the massacre charges would hold weight. The silliest thing about all the conspiracy theories people charge Israel with is that these people admittedly can never figure out Israel's supposed motive for intentionally attacking the USS Liberty or a United Nations camp.

how about this, when the civillian population of tahween evacuated their village, and ran for shelter in a UN compound, the UN refused to let them in. most of them are dead now. Un camps are now two scared of israel to take in refugees. how s that for an israeli motive.

Didn't you read the complaints about Israel "violating Lebanese airspace?" Israel has sparred with Hezbollah in cross border incidents, but a 2004 Security Council Resolution called for Lebanon to assert its sovereignty and disarm/disband Hezbollah. And this Hezbollah attack was clearly more brazen and serious than anything up to this point.

lol, you really think that a country like lebanon can disarm a militia that Israel, and the US, with all their military migh, failed to even weaken??
Or are you relying on Lebanon to solve the whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict??
How on earth do u expect the lebanese to help you after all the shit you've done to us. We've been through 15 years of civil war, and there's no way in hell we're gonna go to war with Hezbollah, especially not for the sake of Israel.

You forgot the part about killing a handful of soldiers in the crossborder raid, which took 5 months of planning according to Nasrallah.

Hezbollah attacked soldiers, and you attack civillian. I see this as a clear recognition that Israel are the real terrorists.

One source is a free press institution. Al Manar is a propaganda station run by Hezbollah. I'd say that's quite a difference.

lol, are you affraid to get brainwashed poor baby??? or are you unable to make up your own mind without someone teling you what to think?

If you pick up the New York Times today, you'll see some very strong commentary criticizing the Bush administration. Haaretz is a liberal paper often critical of Israel's leadership (since they are originally right wing Likud.)

lol, please read the talkback on Haaretz, and see all the hate mail to haaretz for criticizing the israeli government.

Not to mention that Manar is the station that criticises the lebanese government the most. Does that make it a liberal paper???

 

[not really ken]

Israel is destroying civilian infrastructure, that is terrorism.

The Israeli state is a carrying out acts of terrorism.

 

[Khaled]

Hezbollah just crashed an Israeli warplane...
just seen this on TV (lbc and jazira showed footage of the rocket and the plane falling)

not sure whether its a helicopter or a drone or an f16

 

[Khaled]

edit.

 

[Glockmatic]

Bush expressed his frustration with the United Nations and his disgust with the militant Islamic group and its backers in Syria as he talked to British Prime Minister Tony Blair during the closing lunch at the Group of Eight summit.

"See the irony is that what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this s-and it's over," Bush told Blair as he chewed on a buttered roll.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2006/07/17/1688970-ap.html

for the first time in awhile i'm actually agreeing with bush

 

[Morris]

they ran out of places to bomb, and they sstill havesn't hit any hezbollah base so far. so they keep bombing civillian infrastructure. As if Hezbollah would evacuate the soldiers tyrough the airport.

Israel has been constantly bombarding Hezbollah's infrastructure, from military offices to Nasrallah's house. Much of the civilian casualties were a result of strikes on Hezbollah buildings. On one day alone last week Israel targeted 50 Hezbollah related targets.

Since an airport would have been the quickest way to get the soldiers out, it made perfect sense to hit the runways. Thus they kept hitting runways instead of the actual buildings of the airport.

Un camps are now two scared of israel to take in refugees. how s that for an israeli motive.

What exactly is the motive? Why would Israel care whether or not the UN took in civilian refugees?

lol, you really think that a country like lebanon can disarm a militia that Israel, and the US, with all their military migh, failed to even weaken??

Lebanon was ordered by UNSC 1559 to assert its sovereignty. It hasn't attempted it. If this past week's actions prove anything, it's that Israel is going to be more than willing to help Lebanon do this if it will so much as attempt to deploy its army along the border. The Israelis have explicitly said this.

Or are you relying on Lebanon to solve the whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict??

Theoretically Hezbollah's attacks should have nothing to do with the Palestinians. Since Israel fully withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, as certified by the United Nations, there is no reason they should be getting attacked from the Lebanese border.

Hezbollah attacked soldiers, and you attack civillian. I see this as a clear recognition that Israel are the real terrorists.

Hezbollah has been randomly firing rockets at civilians for years. Hezbollah kidnapped soldiers who were on the Israeli side of the border unprovoked. Hezbollah has fired 400 rockets at Israeli citizens in the past week. There's a reason Hezbollah is branded a terrorist group. Israel's self defense actions do not intentionally target civilians, thus it is not terrorism. This isn't rocket science, no pun intended.

Not to mention that Manar is the station that criticises the lebanese government the most. Does that make it a liberal paper???

Al Manar is run by Hezbollah. The New York Times, or Haaretz, run themselves. I don't really know how much clearer I can make this before you stop making straw man arguments. If the American government ran the New York Times, then it would be as trustworthy for news as Al Manar. But that's not the case. Get it yet?

Israel is destroying civilian infrastructure, that is terrorism.

Bombing transportation routes to make sure Hezbollah and Syria can't use them have obvious military significance. Bombing Hezbollah's buildings have obvious military significance. Unfortunately civilian casualties are caused by those bombings, but that's because terrorist groups have rooted themselves in densely populated places, knowing full well that people will then blame Israel for civilian casualties caused by its self defense.

 

[Tru Principle]

You live in a fantasy ^ , you should see a clinical pyschologist and tell him you are suffering from delusional beliefs.

 

[Duke]

You live in a fantasy ^ , you should see a clinical pyschologist and tell him you are suffering from delusional beliefs.

No, theoretically, Morris is right. The only thing he missed, as he always does when the subject comes up, is that Israel is digging it's own grave by responding with such force.

Morris, you honestly believe the man that just lost half his family due to an Israeli bomb further up the street is going to say "ah, they were trying to target this Hizbollah guy over there, shame my family got hit but HEY, that's urban warfare for you."

No, he'll be pissed. And rightfully so.

Israel is shooting at a fly with a shotgun. And they're surprised when people dislike their causing of "colleteral damage" (the current political correct word for of innocent casualties).

 

[Tru Principle]

No no no! Morris is really suffering from delusional beliefs! Israel is still attacking ambulances and bombing areas where innocent civilians are located and using the excuse of "fighting terror" ... the only terror here is being caused by them. My major concern with all this, is the fact they keep killing innocent people and using the excuse that they are attacking Hizballah sites when that is known to be not be true and it is known in all this war... only the Lebanese people have suffered direct and colossal hits... not Hizballah. Morris is the epitome of a certain group of people that choose to not speak the truth and always give us the "run around" when it comes to the evil actions of the terrorist government of Israel. I don't wanna see people in Northern Israel hiding in bomb shelters and dying, I know what that feels like.. and it feels like shit fearing for your life every time you leave the house... or hell, even when you're IN YOUR HOUSE. I don't want, nor do I condone ANY civilian death on any side... but hey, Hizballah seems to be hiding every where... hospitals, Lebanese army camps, schools , fire fighters' command posts, rural villages, red cross ambulances, civilian cities, tissue making factories, dairy product factories... the list goes on.

 

[Tru Principle]

....

I am worried about my friends in Lebanon who have been under the constant attack of the state of Israel for the last 7 days. The State of Israel, disregarding all international laws and conventions such as the Geneva Convention (that explicitly prohibits it), is launching a maritime and air siege targeting the entire population of the country. They are being collectively punished in Lebanon by the state of Israel in deliberate acts of terrorism as described in Article 33 of the Geneva Convention. These acts put the state of Israel in clear violation of international law and can be described as crimes and state terrorism. They may feel left out by the world that is turning a blind eye on the savagery of the Israeli state which does not seem to be capable of approaching any problem outside the realm of the military power bestowed on it by the United States of America.

I am writing you this letter in the hope that editors such as yourself can play the role that free society bestows on journalists: defend the innocents and expose the truth. The numerous civilian victims of the Israeli savagery are increasing by the hour. The viciousness of the attacks, as you can witness by the pictures, has attained terrifying levels where we saw a child cut in three and another half burned. The Israeli war machine, in its blind savagery, is destroying not only their lives but the foundations that could help them survive beyond the Israeli massacre (if the international community has the courage to stop them).

Up until now more than 200 Lebanese civilians have been killed, hundreds wounded, bridges and infrastructure destroyed, refugees are leaving Beirut in droves and worst of all the enforced siege might lead to a human catastrophe in the next 48 hours. I hope that this lonely letter can push you to help us help awake the consciousness of your readers. I hope it can prompt them to pressure their elected officials to intervene to end this cycle of violence and halt the continuous violation of international laws and basic ethical behavior.

Among the blindness of the international community and the deafness of the Arab one, you are our most serious hope.

Finaly I invite you, as I invite the Whole International community to See and Dennounce the Israeli Aggression comitting against lebanese innocent Civilians,Steping over all human rights and values.

here are a good set of Israeli Genocides In Lebanon:

http://www.albaladonline.com/index1.php?pnumber=1
http://www.albaladonline.com/index1.php?pnumber=15
http://www.lebwar.org/lebanonwar.jpg
http://www.cmylebanon.com/images/thu...astup&cat=-207
http://www.stopdestroyinglebanon.com/
http://www.lgic.org/en/israel-lebanon-2006.php
http://www.videos.informationclearin...o/aaaaaaaz.jpg

 

[Khaled]

Israel has been constantly bombarding Hezbollah's infrastructure, from military offices to Nasrallah's house. Much of the civilian casualties were a result of strikes on Hezbollah buildings. On one day alone last week Israel targeted 50 Hezbollah related targets.

lol, you really believed that don't you?
are the christian targets also Hezbollah related?
are the military Hezbollah related
are all the bridges Hezbollah related?

when you kill 1 Hezbollah fighter and 200+ civillians, then Hezbollah are the collateral damage, not the civillians.
how can someone realy believe that these civillians aren't actually targeted.

it's amazing how powerful Israel is i manipulating public opinions. Or is it that the jews are so gullible...

Since an airport would have been the quickest way to get the soldiers out, it made perfect sense to hit the runways. Thus they kept hitting runways instead of the actual buildings of the airport.

in this case, why hitting the oil depot and the terminal???

What exactly is the motive? Why would Israel care whether or not the UN took in civilian refugees?

??? the same motives in Quana i guess...

Lebanon was ordered by UNSC 1559 to assert its sovereignty. It hasn't attempted it. If this past week's actions prove anything, it's that Israel is going to be more than willing to help Lebanon do this if it will so much as attempt to deploy its army along the border. The Israelis have explicitly said this.

the UN also calls on Israel to withdraw from the Golan Hights.
last time i checked, 242<1559

the day israel officially recognize their own boundary, then you can talk about this again.


hehe, i bet you next elections, Hezbollah will have 40 MPs instead of 15. How is Israel Helping Lebanon exactly??
Israel is loosing all their Friends inLebanon. Even the most extremist christians are now begging Iran and Hezbollah for help. If you think that Hezbollah have been touched, you're really fooling yourselves. Israel destroyed the whole Shiite Bloc, killing hundreds of civillians, and without hitting any Hezbollah target.

Theoretically Hezbollah's attacks should have nothing to do with the Palestinians. Since Israel fully withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, as certified by the United Nations, there is no reason they should be getting attacked from the Lebanese border.

Chebaa farms are lebanese. And Hezbollah will not loose support as long as israel is occupying this area.

Hezbollah has been randomly firing rockets at civilians for years. Hezbollah kidnapped soldiers who were on the Israeli side of the border unprovoked. Hezbollah has fired 400 rockets at Israeli citizens in the past week. There's a reason Hezbollah is branded a terrorist group. Israel's self defense actions do not intentionally target civilians, thus it is not terrorism. This isn't rocket science, no pun intended.

no they haven't been "firing rockets for years"
besides, the attack came after Hexzbollah captured 2 army officers. It was Israel who replied by killing 100+ civillians.

besides, if you wanna compare body counts, please go ahead.

Al Manar is run by Hezbollah. The New York Times, or Haaretz, run themselves. I don't really know how much clearer I can make this before you stop making straw man arguments. If the American government ran the New York Times, then it would be as trustworthy for news as Al Manar. But that's not the case. Get it yet?

well, according to most arabs, all the western stations, from Haaretz to CNN and BBC, are run by wester people. not sure what you're trying to say. should i not believe anything i see on cnn because it's an american TV station??
and you still didn't answer me about LBC

Bombing transportation routes to make sure Hezbollah and Syria can't use them have obvious military significance. Bombing Hezbollah's buildings have obvious military significance. Unfortunately civilian casualties are caused by those bombings, but that's because terrorist groups have rooted themselves in densely populated places, knowing full well that people will then blame Israel for civilian casualties caused by its self defense.

hehe, if Hezbollah says they were targeting a mossad agent in Haifa, would you accept this excuse for bombing half the city?


by the way, a quick piece of info:

Bin Laden first got inspired to fight America when he watched the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982.

imagine how many ben Ladens are in the mainking right now.


you guys are fooling yourselves if you think the Lebanese believe that you are here to help them. just remember, if you take out Hezbollah (which you will be unable to do so, since Israel and the west never won against any guerilla in history), there are hundreds of people that are willing to continue to fight Israel till death.

Out of All the people in the world, the jews still expect others to give up their land that easilly. you of all people should know how much land is worth, and how long people are willing to struggle to get their land back. If you can't learn from others, try to learn from your history at least.

 

[PuffnScruff]

well, according to most arabs, all the western stations, from Haaretz to CNN and BBC, are run by wester people. not sure what you're trying to say. should i not believe anything i see on cnn because it's an american TV station??
and you still didn't answer me about LBC

.

really? that's a shocker

i think you completely missed the point morris was making

 

[Khaled]

really? that's a shocker

i think you completely missed the point morris was making

i think you completely missed my point.

today, it's Hezbollah vs the West, the west owns western Media the same way hezbollah owns Manar..
so based on this fact, can you please explain to what applies to manar that doesn't apply to cnn

Besides, So far, none of the western TV stations has shown any pictures of what's happening in Lebanon. Some people here seem to believe that just because cnn didn't talk about it, it's not true.
even more, some think that just vecause Manar showed it on TV, it's not true.

 

[ill-matic]

No, theoretically, Morris is right. The only thing he missed, as he always does when the subject comes up, is that Israel is digging it's own grave by responding with such force.

Morris, you honestly believe the man that just lost half his family due to an Israeli bomb further up the street is going to say "ah, they were trying to target this Hizbollah guy over there, shame my family got hit but HEY, that's urban warfare for you."

No, he'll be pissed. And rightfully so.

Israel is shooting at a fly with a shotgun. And they're surprised when people dislike their causing of "colleteral damage" (the current political correct word for of innocent casualties).

Actually, this is far from "urban warfare". This is unequivocal state terrorism, which is in defiance of the 1949 Geneva Convention, and article 8 B(2)IV of the International Criminal Court (established in 1999) - which both (though predominately the latter) stipulate and advocate that it is a crime to incur excessive damage to civilian life, property and infrastructure to the extent where losses severely outweigh any military advantages to the attack:

Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause
incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or
widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which
would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military
advantage anticipated;

http://www.icc-cpi.int/library/about/officialjournal/Rome_Statute_120704-EN.pdf

What I mean by that is if Israel had attacked actual military targets rather than highways, airports, depots etc then the collatoral damage incurred by the bomb raids would be somewhat rationalised. Though according to these protocols in the instance where casualties and losses severely outnumber the success of the Israeli objectives, which was aptly summarised by your "shooting a fly with a shotgun" image, the conduct of Israel is in fact unjustifiable state terrorism.

 

[Devious]

i think you completely missed my point.

today, it's Hezbollah vs the West, the west owns western Media the same way hezbollah owns Manar..
so based on this fact, can you please explain to what applies to manar that doesn't apply to cnn

Besides, So far, none of the western TV stations has shown any pictures of what's happening in Lebanon. Some people here seem to believe that just because cnn didn't talk about it, it's not true.
even more, some think that just vecause Manar showed it on TV, it's not true.

well his point was that Manar is owned by Hezbollah whereas the US Media like CNN are owned independently. just because they are owned by "westerners" doesnt mean that all westerners have a grudge or some kind of agenda against Hezbollah. now if the US government owned CNN or media outlets, then your point would be valid, but since that isn't the case you have no point.

As for the rest of all this, i dont know why you guys even bother arguing with Morris, he's never gonna change his stance. everything Israel does is self defense. blowing up 100 civillians to kill one Hezbollah member makes perfect sense to him, you cant reason with people who think like that

 

[PuffnScruff]

i think you completely missed my point.

today, it's Hezbollah vs the West, the west owns western Media the same way hezbollah owns Manar..
so based on this fact, can you please explain to what applies to manar that doesn't apply to cnn

Besides, So far, none of the western TV stations has shown any pictures of what's happening in Lebanon. Some people here seem to believe that just because cnn didn't talk about it, it's not true.
even more, some think that just vecause Manar showed it on TV, it's not true.

the west does not own western media. western media may be run in the west and owned by western people, but the entire west does not own it. different individual companies and coprations own western media outlets. you can see who owns what at this site
http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/

this is not the same as Al Manar being run by Hezbollah, so this "fact" that you claim to be factual, is not, it is your opinion

the point morris was making is that Al Manar is not credible because they are run by Hezbollah. that means Hezbollah will use Al Manar to for their own gain, lie, and spew propaganda if they need to, there for its is just not a trustworthy source of information.

if the US govt ran The Times, The Post, or any other news organization, those would not be credible or trustworthy.


i have seen images of whats going on in lebanon on tv

where did you get your information about the "2 f-16 pilots being captured" from? you know the one you edited very quickly.