Israel authorizes 'severe' response to abductions

[Khaled]

the west does not own western media. western media may be run in the west and owned by western people, but the entire west does not own it. different individual companies and coprations own western media outlets. you can see who owns what at this site
http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/

this is not the same as Al Manar being run by Hezbollah, so this "fact" that you claim to be factual, is not, it is your opinion

the point morris was making is that Al Manar is not credible because they are run by Hezbollah. that means Hezbollah will use Al Manar to for their own gain, lie, and spew propaganda if they need to, there for its is just not a trustworthy source of information.

if the US govt ran The Times, The Post, or any other news organization, those would not be credible or trustworthy.


i have seen images of whats going on in lebanon on tv

where did you get your information about the "2 f-16 pilots being captured" from? you know the one you edited very quickly.

lol, it's really funny how people tend to use technicalities to justify weak points (not the west... western people)
i can play that game too: Manar isn't owned by Hezbollah, it's owned by Hezbollah Members and Supporters.
Manar is as biased as CNN and BBC.

and if you think that CNN is used for a higher purpose than the owners' gain, forget about it.


as for the f16, the news was first reported on Jazira, then DENIED by Manar. based on your logic, i shouldn't have edited it just because Manar had denied it.
i still don't know what was burning aeronef that was hit by Hezb and fell from the sky live on TV, the army isn't letting anyone get near.

 

[Glockmatic]

i can't find any recent sources that said an ambulance was hit by israelis, the most recent i found was from 1996

 

[Khaled]

i can't find any recent sources that said an ambulance was hit by israelis, the most recent i found was from 1996

Source


more pics from Israel's righeous war:


Kiryat shmona. Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position firing into civilians inside Lebanon

Monday, July 17, 2006:


Beirut

 

[Khaled]

Someone was saying something in this thread about muslims learning hate in schools??? please coment on this

pics of the terrorists

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

 

[Glockmatic]

Well that page only said damaged by israeli airstrikes, it didn't say if there were any deaths or deliberate attacks to ambulances. Also please, stop the propaganda pics, there are a lot of pics of hezbollah and what they do too

 

[Khaled]

Well that page only said damaged by israeli airstrikes, it didn't say if there were any deaths or deliberate attacks to ambulances. Also please, stop the propaganda pics, there are a lot of pics of hezbollah and what they do too

still playing on technicalities...
no deliberate attack?? they were going for the bridge, and the unintentioally hoit the ambulance that was crossing it. Unless you see a Hizbollah military base on the bridge...

Propaganda??? next you're gonna tell me these pics are all fake right???


please show me the pics of Hezb's actions so i can have a laugh.

 

[Glockmatic]

if you think that hezbollah has done nothing wrong in this conflict than you're brain washed. I'm not saying israel hasn't done anyhting wrong, i'm saying that your argument is one sided

 

[Khaled]

^^ you need to do better than this

are you honestly comparing these pics with the ones i posted.

-1 guy lying down by a katyousha fired 50km away
-A festival for Jerusaem day...

that just proves my point..

 

[Glockmatic]

so kids wearing military clothes and holding AKs is alright, but a kid writing something on an artillery shell is child abuse? 8 people died in that rocket attack at a train station, i guess those pics you put up those people are just lying down too. This is just pathetic

 

[M.C.Chillz]

I have a question. If Israel wanted to punish Hezbollah why isnt Israel bombing Iran and Syria since they are the people funding Hezbollah?

 

[Glockmatic]

because neither iran or syria kidnapped those soldiers, hezbollah did

 

[Khaled]

so kids wearing military clothes and holding AKs is alright, but a kid writing something on an artillery shell is child abuse? 8 people died in that rocket attack at a train station, i guess those pics you put up those people are just lying down too. This is just pathetic

so you believe 8 israeli are worth 200+ civillians, women and children Lebanese...

at least your honest about it.


and by the way, I'm sure you're too ignorant to know that thsese children holding AKs are children of lebanese and palestinians slain in Quana and other Israeli genocides like Sabra and Chatila.
but of course you re aware of that

 

[Devious]

on an interesting side note to all of this, the police website in Lincoln, Nebraska was hacked today, and someone posted some shit on there relevant to this issue, very anti-Israeli stuff (and anti-US), i must point out

http://www.lincolnpolice.us/home/images/index.htm
WARNING: there are very graphic images shown here, don't say you weren't warned

Edit: it wasn't Lincoln, Nebraska, another Lincoln somewhere in the US

 

[Tru Principle]

Hmm... justified?

Casualties:
- 208 CIVILIANS
- 21 Lebanese military
- 4 Hezbollah fighters
- 512 wounded
Total casualties: 233
Cicilian/militia fighters ratio: 52 civilians killed in order to get rid of one fighter

Infrastructure:
-The only civilian airport of lebanon
-42 bridges
-38 roads
-100 residential places completely destroyed
-Several schools and HOSPITALS
- one mosque and one church
-2 military airports

-36,800 people have fled their homes in the beirut southern suburbs alone
-25,000 refugees in Sour
-10,000 refugee *families* in Jbeil caza
-14,500 refugees in Beirut

Israel:
Casualties:
-12 civilians
-12 Israel military
Total casualties: 24
Civilian/military ratio: 1

 

[_carmi]

Definitions of Terrorism on the Web:

is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/alqaeda/glossary.html

The FBI defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp

The systematic use of violence to achieve political ends is not new – among many other examples, it featured during The Troubles in Ireland before its independence in 1922. In recent decades, it has become a common tactic among a wide variety of groups, from independence movements to the secret services of various countries. ...
www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/browse/glossary.html

use of terror, especially the systematic use of terror by the government or other authority against particular persons or groups; a method of opposing a government internally or externally through the use of terror
www.imuna.org/c2c/app_a.html

Any act including, but not limited to, the use of force or violence and/or threat thereof of any person or group(s) of persons whether acting alone or on behalf of, or in connection with, any organisation(s) or government(s) committed for political, religions, ideological or similar purposes, including the intention to influence any government and/or to put the public or any section of the public in fear.
www.ecis.org/finance/paisdefin.htm

"Systematic use of terror, manifesting itself in violence and intimidation. Terrorism has been used by groups wishing to coerce a govt in order to achieve political or other objectives, and also by dictatorships or other autocratic governments in order to overcome opposition to their policies." [BFH] Often anti-terrorist mercenaries will only do a job if they have a carte blanche to do whatever they want. ...
www.embassy.org.nz/encycl/t3encyc.htm

Acts of murder and destruction deliberately directed against civilians or military in non-military situations.
www.jafi.org.il/education/hasbara/glossary.html

The systematic use of terror, the deliberate creation and exploitation of fear for bringing about political change
wps.prenhall.com/chet_langan_preparing_1/0,9681,1613226-content,00.html

a violent act in violation of the criminal laws of the United States, which is intended to intimidate or influence the policy of a government.
www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/respect/spring02-glossary.cfm

Terrorist activities are illegal and involve the use of coercion including the use of force, intended to intimidate or coerce, and committed in support of political or social objectives.
www.austin.cc.tx.us/audit/Glossary/LetterT.htm

a psychological strategy of war for gaining political ends by deliberately creating a well-founded climate of fear among the civilian popuation. Such a strategy may be used by an occupying army on the occupied population. Many terrorist acts, especially against an occupying military or against illegal occupants are acts of war or resistance, and not terrorism.
www.naiadonline.ca/book/01Glossary.htm

the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Terrorism is a controversial and subjective term with multiple definitions. One definition means a violent action targetting civilians exclusively. Another definition is the use or threatened use of violence for the purpose of creating fear in order to achieve a political, economic, religious, or ideological goal. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

israel has just found an excuse to bomb arabs. its as simple as that. and i read most of this thread and that morris dude makes no sense. the hezbollahs arent right, but from statistics, they havent killed civilians like the israelis do. the israelis bomb anything.

and its only in arabic countries that you find wars as fucked up as this.

 

[Kareem]

israel has just found an excuse to bomb arabs. its as simple as that. and i read most of this thread and that morris dude makes no sense. the hezbollahs arent right, but from statistics, they havent killed civilians like the israelis do. the israelis bomb anything.

and its only in arabic countries that you find wars as fucked up as this.

:thumb: Carmi I hearby award you some brownie points!:laugh:

Ok now for my 8 billionth reply, yes we all know Morris will probably never change his opinion an thats fine its his to have. I think what a majority of us cant figure out is why support Israel on this escapade? You can support a nation an your beliefs but you dont have to whole heartedly support their every action, I support Palestine and its struggle to be its own free nation with out Israeli bomb bardment! But I do not support Suicide bombings, you wanna hit military targets fine thats fair game but innocents should be left alone. My arguement an, as it seems is everyone elses also, is Israel has a lack remorse for whom it destroys in the process. An dont flip the script Lebanon has by far suffered 110% worse civillian casulties/fatalities then Israel has. No matter what Israel does in your eyes Morris, its justified. The attack on the USS Liberty, which i dont care what you say, your CNN story was a lil dated www.ussliberty.org Is pretty up to date and also includes first hand accounts from Radio Operators abord the vessal who had been intercepting Israeli transmissions the entire time, to fellow sailors an even a Israeli pilot who admitted it being intentional. Anyway back on subject you support em no matter what, an thats fine we know no one nor nothing will change your perception. BUT sometime somewhere down the road sit back an try an see with your minds eye, why we tend too vision your beloved Israel as the real terrorists of the middle east.

I am Kareem an I approve this message



"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby




"To suggest that they [the IDF] couldn't identify the ship is ... ridiculous. ... Anybody who could not identify the Liberty could not tell the difference between the White House and the Washington Monument."
-- Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, quoted in The Washington Post, June 15, 1991, p. 14

Sorry just had ta add those

 

[Duke]

Can we please keep the thread somewhat free of pictures of mangled children? I don't really want to delete them, two is enough, but not twenty. And don't start any "picture wars" please.

Thank you

 

[Glockmatic]

so you believe 8 israeli are worth 200+ civillians, women and children Lebanese...

at least your honest about it.


and by the way, I'm sure you're too ignorant to know that thsese children holding AKs are children of lebanese and palestinians slain in Quana and other Israeli genocides like Sabra and Chatila.
but of course you re aware of that

How do you know those children writing on artillery shells and missiles had family members slain by hezbollah? All i'm saying is that both sides are fucking up. If Hezbollah didn't kidnap those 2 soldiers this wouldn't have happened, but also Israel shouldn't bomb a city when they should be bombing the areas where the rockets are being fired from

 

[Morris]

No, theoretically, Morris is right. The only thing he missed, as he always does when the subject comes up, is that Israel is digging it's own grave by responding with such force.

By all means Duke, please tell us what you think the proper response would have been. My guess is that Israel has already tried whatever you suggest.

Israel is still attacking ambulances and bombing areas where innocent civilians are located and using the excuse of "fighting terror" ... the only terror here is being caused by them.

Is it really that hard to understand that innocent civilians are located in the same place as Hezbollah's buildings and militants. Hezbollah's stronghold is in the southern part of the Lebanese capital.

What I mean by that is if Israel had attacked actual military targets rather than highways, airports, depots etc then the collatoral damage incurred by the bomb raids would be somewhat rationalised. Though according to these protocols in the instance where casualties and losses severely outnumber the success of the Israeli objectives, which was aptly summarised by your "shooting a fly with a shotgun" image, the conduct of Israel is in fact unjustifiable state terrorism.

Israel is bombing transportation routes to stop Hezbollah's ability to move forces (and hostages) and supplies around, and making sure Hezbollah can't be reinforced. Highways are absolutely vital targets in that regard. As for deciding what's excessive and what's enough of a military objective, those are completely subjective. Duke thinks it's excessive, a subjective viewpoint. I don't think it's excessive, a subjective viewpoint. There's no objective answer.

 

[Morris]

no deliberate attack?? they were going for the bridge, and the unintentioally hoit the ambulance that was crossing it. Unless you see a Hizbollah military base on the bridge...

Yes, Israel knocked out the bridge to Syria. They started knocking out roads as quickly as possible. Yes, civilian casualties are going to be incurred by doing so. Israel was knocking out the highway to Syria for completely justifiable reasons: hoping to stop the transfer of Hezbollah's hostages and stopping Hezbollah from getting supplies. Noncombatants getting caught in crossfire is an unfortunate fact of warfare.

I'm sure you're too ignorant to know that thsese children holding AKs are children of lebanese and palestinians slain in Quana and other Israeli genocides like Sabra and Chatila.

Somehow I doubt those 5 year olds had parents slain in refugee camps 10-20+ years ago. Those kids are being taught to hate at an age where they're too young to form their own opinions.

the hezbollahs arent right, but from statistics, they havent killed civilians like the israelis do. the israelis bomb anything.

Hezbollah is intentionally aiming at noncombatants. Casualties being caused by Israel are not being intentionally aimed at. Most of them just happened to be unfortunately close to places like Nasrallah's home, Hezbollah offices, or were unluckily on roads at the wrong time. Hezbollah has fired over 400 rockets at northern Israeli towns, with no target other than to wreak havoc and casualties. That is the epitome of terrorism. There is no moral equivalence between Hezbollah's rockets and Israel's operation.

If Hezbollah didn't kidnap those 2 soldiers this wouldn't have happened, but also Israel shouldn't bomb a city when they should be bombing the areas where the rockets are being fired from

Hezbollah operates throughout southern Lebanon, with its biggest region of activity being Beirut itself. Like any other nation, Israel is completely justified in moving Hezbollah out of rocket range for self defense purposes. That means getting Hezbollah out of Beirut.