Why is Hip-hop dead?

[Shadows]

Although I believe a lot of what Casey and a few others bring to the table, I also think it's other things aswell.

It seems like Hip-hop can't be viewed as a poetic thing anymore to the mainstream. With all the technology around, people are soo spoiled and used to companies getting straight to the point that, it seems like artist are told to get to the point too.

I remember talking to someone about music not to long ago and questioned why she liked Justin Timberlake (yes I know different genre but i gotta get this point across), and she said that his music was more simple than that of Prince b/c she didn't understand what "purple rain" meant.

Rappers don't understand how to be mainstream and still be logical. We actually don't need any logic. Whats so hard about talking about your deepest feelings, ala "Dear MAMA."

You can be lyrical without being lyrical.

This snippet of lyrics is way better than the next imo.

"He passed away and I didn't cry, cause my anger
wouldn't let me feel for a stranger
They say I'm wrong and I'm heartless, but all along
I was lookin for a father he was gone"


" Yo, My power to weight ratio makes it capable
for me to carry hundred thousand pound boast radios
Fuckin' with the "Can-I", is like stepping on a
live land mine behind enemy lines
Military paratroops with camouflage parachutes
in flight suits and boots landing on your roof
Eliminate the target is the prime objective
I create psychic walls harder than cement is"

Either artist have to be more creative, or we are going to need someones niece to sign the next Tupac.

 

[Euphanasia]

You mention Kanye. If he had made another album like his first three, it wouldn't have sold.

I'm steering clear of the argument between you and Illmatic but this statement is just plain false. If Kanye had made a rap album it wouldn't have sold? Are you kidding me? Do you know how many units Kanye pushed the first week of "Graduation," and that was what, a fucking year ago?

He made a different album because of his mother's passing and his heart was in a different place. Let's be clear about that.

 

[Young Cali]

its not dead at all.
however the internet/down loading has hurt the industry bad. labels and artist are not selling as much as they used to. so now labels are not willing to put as much money behind artist or promote them as they used to.

so labels now are NOT looking for anything NEW. they are just trying to copy anything that has already hit and will give them guaranteed money through ring tones, digital downloads, and so on.

Thats why every other single right now has Lil Wayne, T-Pain, or Akon featured on it. Because right now these 3 are guaranteed to give you radio spins.

 

[Casey]

I'm steering clear of the argument between you and Illmatic but this statement is just plain false. If Kanye had made a rap album it wouldn't have sold? Are you kidding me? Do you know how many units Kanye pushed the first week of "Graduation," and that was what, a fucking year ago?

He made a different album because of his mother's passing and his heart was in a different place. Let's be clear about that.

It would have sold nowhere near as much as any of his previous efforts. I can be clear about that because I know it's the truth.

Matter of fact, the real truth is that Kanye DID start to a record an album like that and the label told him to do something different because they knew the climate was changing.

Kanye doing a pop album? Lil Wayne doing a rock album? These things don't just happen on their own, and trust me, somebody put the idea into BOTH of their heads, and it was somebody that they respect enough to know that they are right.

as for 'a fucking year ago', trust me son, that's a LONG time in the music industry. Enough time where labels have realized that hip-hop just ain't pushing big units any more without a unique spin on it.

 

[ill-matic]

It would have sold nowhere near as much as any of his previous efforts. I can be clear about that because I know it's the truth.

Matter of fact, the real truth is that Kanye DID start to a record an album like that and the label told him to do something different because they knew the climate was changing.

Kanye doing a pop album? Lil Wayne doing a rock album? These things don't just happen on their own, and trust me, somebody put the idea into BOTH of their heads, and it was somebody that they respect enough to know that they are right.

as for 'a fucking year ago', trust me son, that's a LONG time in the music industry. Enough time where labels have realized that hip-hop just ain't pushing big units any more without a unique spin on it.

Lil Wayne did 1 million in one week with his "hip hop" album. I dont really think hes worried about not selling anymore hip hop orientated records.

For the record, you shouldnt confuse experimentation, and rappers deviating from the core of hip hop as something negative. I think it's good both are experimenting with other forms of music, and i refuse to believe it signals the "death" of hip hop

 

[BombFirst5]

its not dead ... its called Blu

 

[Casey]

Lil Wayne did 1 million in one week with his "hip hop" album. I dont really think hes worried about not selling anymore hip hop orientated records.

For the record, you shouldnt confuse experimentation, and rappers deviating from the core of hip hop as something negative. I think it's good both are experimenting with other forms of music, and i refuse to believe it signals the "death" of hip hop

...and they had to push The Carter 3 back what, 4 or 5 times just to build that amount of hype? Considering that fact, a million first week is nothing special.

For the record, just so you know - first week sales do not mean shit. First week sales are not how many records have been sold, they are how many records have been shipped to stores, which is based on the amount of hype and PR that you can build up beforehand.

Look up Wayne's second and third week sales and there was a significant drop - enough to warrant your point as completely irrelevant.

 

[Rukas]

Hip-Hop didnt die, it's values just changed.

 

[ill-matic]

...and they had to push The Carter 3 back what, 4 or 5 times just to build that amount of hype? Considering that fact, a million first week is nothing special.

For the record, just so you know - first week sales do not mean shit. First week sales are not how many records have been sold, they are how many records have been shipped to stores, which is based on the amount of hype and PR that you can build up beforehand.

Look up Wayne's second and third week sales and there was a significant drop - enough to warrant your point as completely irrelevant.

im not debating this with you anymore. youre wayyyy too entrenched in your own views and you won't even budge. 1 million in a week and it's not a big deal?? pfffft, and in a climate where downloads exceed album sales?? come on man, lets be real here. you're reaching wayyyy too far with this one. youre too annoying to argue with

 

[Casey]

im not debating this with you anymore. youre wayyyy too entrenched in your own views and you won't even budge. 1 million in a week and it's not a big deal?? pfffft, and in a climate where downloads exceed album sales?? come on man, lets be real here. you're reaching wayyyy too far with this one. youre too annoying to argue with

you cannot refute the points I make, that is why you made a statement like this. Grow up, you clearly lost the argument, you are like a little kid "I am not debating this anymore", come on now.

As I said, first week sales mean jack shit. They are not sales. They are how many records are sitting on shelves, and the label convinces the major buyers to buy the stock based on the amount of the hype there is for the product, and they pushed Wayne's album back a million and one times just to do that.

 

[ill-matic]

you cannot refute the points I make, that is why you made a statement like this. Grow up, you clearly lost the argument, you are like a little kid "I am not debating this anymore", come on now.

As I said, first week sales mean jack shit. They are not sales. They are how many records are sitting on shelves, and the label convinces the major buyers to buy the stock based on the amount of the hype there is for the product, and they pushed Wayne's album back a million and one times just to do that.

i didnt lose anything. i just cant be bothered typing up leo tolstoy length responses. and there's no point, because you will never see my point of view cos youre too absorbed in your own. at least i can acknowledge that what you say has a degree of merit, whereas your method of "debate" is sticking your fingers in your ears and singing La La La La when the other person is speaking.

not saying that to offend you but thats just what it appears like to me based on this discussion and previous one's ive had with you.

 

[S. Fourteen]

50 Cent is now the second highest earning black entertainer after Oprah. And he did through Hip Hop.

The shits alive and kicking.

 

[Casey]

50 Cent is now the second highest earning black entertainer after Oprah. And he did through Hip Hop.

The shits alive and kicking.

I fail to see what purchasing stock in Vitamin Water has to do with hip-hop, other than providing the capital for his inital 10% small investment.

Come on, 50 had no fucking idea that Coca Cola would buy out Vitamin Water a year or so after he invested in it.

He didn't make all that money through entertainment, he made it through business.



The way I see it is this:

A) Is there as much quality hip-hop music coming out as there was 10 years ago? Is the overall quality standard of the music higher or lower?

B) Does hip-hop have as much of a stronghold on the media as it did 10 years ago?

C) Is hip-hop selling as much as it was 10 years ago? (I'm talking relative to all genres of music, so illegal downloading is a moot point).

I find that the answer to all of those questions is negative.

 

[S. Fourteen]

Money Money, Fame Fame, The most popular kid in the lunch room!!!

How about 20 years ago? Casey (money money)

 

[Shadows]

He didn't make all that money through entertainment, he made it through business.



The way I see it is this:

A) Is there as much quality hip-hop music coming out as there was 10 years ago? Is the overall quality standard of the music higher or lower?

B) Does hip-hop have as much of a stronghold on the media as it did 10 years ago?

C) Is hip-hop selling as much as it was 10 years ago? (I'm talking relative to all genres of music, so illegal downloading is a moot point).

I find that the answer to all of those questions is negative.

True, he didn't make any of that money through hip-hop.

In fact, he blew up Ja Rule's career b/c he made songs with women.

But now he is doing the same b/c Hip-hop is dying, whether it be b/c the music or the recession.

A) HELL NO

B)Sort of. Eminem and 50cent were in the last 10 yrs. But maybe it has to do with them falling off the face of the earth....well, okay only Eminem fell off the face of the earth.

c)No. Back then it was hard to go platinum, but everyone was going Gold. These days most rappers don't even go triple aluminum.


"s I said, first week sales mean jack shit. They are not sales. They are how many records are sitting on shelves, and the label convinces the major buyers to buy the stock based on the amount of the hype there is for the product, and they pushed Wayne's album back a million and one times just to do that." -Casey Rain

How in the hell did Lil Wayne convince many major buyers to stock 1 million in the U.S. if people like 50 and Kanye couldn't?

 

[S. Fourteen]

You folks keep talking about the business of Hip Hop regarding sales and media and so forth.

I will admit that good music is harder to find these days but that doesn't suggest to me that Hip Hop is dead. Actually far from it. I see Hip Hop thriving all over the world.

There were times when Hip Hop didn't have a "stronghold on the media" and wasn't getting the corporate attention but some would say that Hip Hop was more intellectual back in those times. heh

I'm very vocal about Hip Hop being alive because the best Hip Hop album I've ever heard came out in 2007 and it was called I'll Sleep When You're Dead - unfortunately, El-P's creation doesn't seem to get accepted well to the more mainstream audience - maybe their just stuck in 1999. heh

Sorry, but I'm not turing a cold shoulder on Hip Hop by saying it's dead just because somebody is not going diamond or because rappers are made fun of instead of being feared.

Hip Hop died when NWA came around.
Hip Hop died when Tupac died.
Hip Hop died with the fall of Death Row.
Hip Hop died because Eminem stopped making music.
Hip Hop died when 50 Cent came out said he was going to change the game.

It aint dying.

 

[ImmortalTech]

Hip Hop is dead cuz dudes stopped thinking for themselves and started hopping on bandwagons... For example, the hip hopis dead bandwagon.

Fuck all that nonsense. Hip Hop never died. Hip Hop in its early days never appealed to the masses. And to me times havent changed. That shit you hear on mtv and bet everyday is just pop music that evolved and incorporated elements of hip hop.

 

[Chronic]

I'm very vocal about Hip Hop being alive because the best Hip Hop album I've ever heard came out in 2007 and it was called I'll Sleep When You're Dead

Co-signed by Chuck D
Well it's not the best Hip-Hop album ever but production-wise that shit was God-like. As a rapper he's difficult to listen to if you're bumping that shit 24/7 but he's always been impressive.

*bumps "Patriotism"*

 

[masta247]

That shit you hear on mtv and bet everyday is just pop music that evolved and incorporated elements of hip hop.

That's the point. It's not hip-hop.


If it comes to el-p I respect him but his song are somehow unlistenable to me. I just can't stand his beats.

 

[Bobby Sands]

You folks keep talking about the business of Hip Hop regarding sales and media and so forth.

I will admit that good music is harder to find these days but that doesn't suggest to me that Hip Hop is dead. Actually far from it. I see Hip Hop thriving all over the world.

There were times when Hip Hop didn't have a "stronghold on the media" and wasn't getting the corporate attention but some would say that Hip Hop was more intellectual back in those times. heh

I'm very vocal about Hip Hop being alive because the best Hip Hop album I've ever heard came out in 2007 and it was called I'll Sleep When You're Dead - unfortunately, El-P's creation doesn't seem to get accepted well to the more mainstream audience - maybe their just stuck in 1999. heh

Sorry, but I'm not turing a cold shoulder on Hip Hop by saying it's dead just because somebody is not going diamond or because rappers are made fun of instead of being feared.

Hip Hop died when NWA came around.
Hip Hop died when Tupac died.
Hip Hop died with the fall of Death Row.
Hip Hop died because Eminem stopped making music.
Hip Hop died when 50 Cent came out said he was going to change the game.

It aint dying.

I agree great album but this was a rarity in recent years.

And masta i disagree. his beats are awesome. His rapping isnt the best ever(he is still good though) but in terms of production EL-P is excellent. Have you heard Funcrusher Plus?