This is my thread

It's the anniversary so this one gets its own post!! pardon me

The Tulsa Race Massacre took place on May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been deputized and given weapons by city officials, attacked Black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma, US. Alternatively known as the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre, the event is considered one of "the single worst incident of racial violence in American history", and is believed to be one of the deadliest terrorist attacks in the history of the United States. The attackers burned and destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the neighborhood – at the time one of the wealthiest Black communities in the United States, known as "Black Wall Street".

More than 800 people were admitted to hospitals, and as many as 6,000 Black residents of Tulsa were interned in large facilities, many of them for several days. The Oklahoma Bureau of Vital Statistics officially recorded 36 dead. A 2001 state commission examination of events was able to confirm 39 dead, 26 Black and 13 white, based on contemporary autopsy reports, death certificates, and other records. The commission gave several estimates ranging from 75 to 300 dead.

The massacre began during the Memorial Day weekend after 19-year-old Dick Rowland, a Black shoeshiner, was accused of assaulting Sarah Page, the 17-year-old white elevator operator in the nearby Drexel Building. He was taken into custody. After Rowland was arrested, rumors that stated that he was going to be lynched were spread throughout the city, which had seen a white man named Roy Belton lynched the previous year. Upon hearing reports that a mob of hundreds of white men had gathered around the jail where Rowland was being held, a group of 75 Black men, some of whom were armed, arrived at the jail in order to ensure that Rowland would not be lynched. The sheriff persuaded the group to leave the jail, assuring them that he had the situation under control.

The most widely-reported and corroborated inciting incident occurred as the group of Black men left, when an elderly white man approached O. B. Mann, a Black man, and demanded that he hand over his pistol. Mann refused, and the old man attempted to disarm him. Mann shot him, and then, according to the sheriff's reports, "all hell broke loose." At the end of the exchange of gunfire, 12 people were dead, 10 white and two Black. Subsequently, the group reportedly fled back into Greenwood, shooting as they went. Alternatively, another eyewitness account contends that the shooting began "down the street from the Courthouse" when Black business-owners came to the defense of a lone Black man being attacked by a group of around six white men. It's possible the eyewitness simply didn't recognize this incident as being part of a rolling gunfight already underway. In either case, as news of the violence spread throughout the city, mob violence exploded. White rioters invaded Greenwood that night and the next morning, killing men and burning and looting stores and homes. Around noon on June 1, the Oklahoma National Guard imposed martial law, ending the massacre.

About 10,000 Black people were left homeless, and property damage amounted to more than $1.5 million in real estate and $750,000 in personal property (equivalent to $34.18 million in 2021). Many survivors left Tulsa, while Black and white residents who stayed in the city largely kept silent about the terror, violence, and resulting losses for decades. The massacre was largely omitted from local, state, and national histories.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
Your can take a cancer out of the body but you can't take violence out of human psyche. It's something we relied on for thousands of years, way before gun powder came along.
I'm not talking about the general human need for violence as being an american thing, and you're right, violence is a part of human nature (and nature in general). I'm talking about the way the right to own a gun is embedded in american culture. That's not universal, that's conditional. That's why I talked about scalping and the US maybe not being here if gun ownership wasn't so embedded in the culture. The US was founded by settlers that came to a distant and foreign land inhabited by "savages" that were a real threat. I'm painting a simple picture here, but just following the historic lines, it's not hard to understand why the american gun culture came into being in the first place. It was a vast land, people with ill intentions could come to your home in the night and take everything, native americans might be a threat, so the need for guns was real. Then the civil war which enforced the mentality of "I need a gun to protect myself". So on and so on up until today. I'm not talking about how to cure humans of evil, just suggesting that politics actually matter when it comes to gun control, and that the US is unique in the western democratic world (or when compared to comparable states, or however you would put it). The gun killings (and homicide) ratio when factoring in population is higher by at least one order of magnitude. That graph is painting a false picture, it has fucking Venezuela on it. Try to remove all the countries that aren't even on a comparable scale, and look at countries like the U.K., Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and, interestingly, Japan. Those are democratic republics with free speech, a free press, that honor the UN human rights. Then compare them to the US. Those are comparable states. You're so fucking far ahead of the rest of us, you should be on the graph with the countries like Venezuela, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. Where beheadings and honor killings happen. Compared with the rest of the "west", the NATO countries, you're sticking out like a sore thumb.

I'm not saying, just speculating, but when you can shoot someone with a gun, you can stay at a relatively safe distance and not be in any danger if you plan the thing right. This is a crude scenario, but imagine you can just wait for someone in a dark alley and pop out of nowhere and just shoot them. Unless they see you coming or are a faster draw, they got nothing on you. If there were no guns, the alternative would be going up to them and stabbing them or beating them to death. Now that incurs a real risk to your self because the other person might also have a knife, or at the very least might be able to rebut in some way. Gouging your eyes in their final breath. Could it be that this is one of many mechanisms explaining why there's less homicides (in general) in countries that have stricter gun laws? Could the feeling of entitlement to owning a gun and shooting people that trespass your property have some other psychological effects where people that hold those opinions have a higher risk of carrying out killings? Could it be that if the overall culture in a country was "I have no right" vs. "This is my land and I can shoot anyone that steps on it" make a difference in how inhabitants of that country think about violence in the first place? Let's flip it around. If it's not that guns make homicide more accessible, what explains the difference in the statistics of US homicides vs. other comparable nations?

That's just a picture my friend. Progressives or liberals have been buying guns too. Hillbillies stays in the hills and screw cousins - they are not really a concern in my book. You can talk the talk but it means nothing when buildings are on fire, shit popping off all around and you can't get a hold of emergency services. You have to lie to your children that they are protected.
Maybe my ideas about american stereotypes are somewhat based on Hollywood stereotypes, I am a european after all, but I think the picture I paint is still relevant. There's a lot of people in the US that would openly say that they would protect their right to own a gun. Whether they be rednecks or progressives, my point is just that if the american government suddenly passed laws that meant a lot of people had to give up their guns, they wouldn't do so willingly, and blood bath would ensue. Which is why my conclusion is that this is difficult stuff. Stronger gun laws that were enforced successfully would bring down gun killings (and homicides in general) at some point in the distant future when the political change had internalized in the culture, but the civil war that would have to play out to get there might not justify passing said politics. Are you saying I'm wrong? Or are you saying "it doesn't matter because homicides also occur elsewhere"? Or are you trying to say "nah, the US is just like other countries in the west"? Because that's 100% not right. Graphs that average every country in the world make you look better. Make a graph of just the NATO countries and you will see what I mean.

Bluntly put, I am saying that the US should do it (enforce stronger gun control), but I understand why they don't (people were ready to kill their own for Donald fucking Trump). Especially considering you have a political system consisting of two parties that date back to the previous civil war that wasn't that long ago. The thing with the storming of the congress just emphasizes my point that there's some people over there that would turn their guns on their own people and that's always been the case. Because the US consists of a bunch of cultures from different nations that probably had tension between them from the first day settlers set foot on the american continent. Europe has a union but the nations here are like California and Texas. Vastly different. The american experiment is trying to unite all these cultures under one umbrella, and it's going relatively good considering what a small window of human social evolution our times really are. If humans existed for 100,000+ years, let's give the United States another few hundred years and I'm sure things will level out in the end unless Russia engages in MAD over Ukraine or we destroy the environment. But yeah, there's no way getting around the coincidence of gun availability and gun violence. Nor american gun culture. They are truths you can't argue.
 
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Bluntly put, I am saying that the US should do it (enforce stronger gun control)
We already have gun control in the US and if a particular State sees it fit to pass more laws they can.

It's a vast place - you cannot compare Hawaii to Mississippi and say a particular law would work in both states.

What people, in many states, don't want is braindead morons or kings in far off place taking things away from them.

There's a push for Americans to fight each other, the powers push for it but there isn't going to be a civil war or confiscation - it's going to be brownouts and empty shelves and starving babies - I know you've caught on the way things are these days.

Like Pittsey says, it's here to stay.
 
Horrible. There's a video floating around now too. If this is all true, he obviously needed to be in a hospital and never been allowed to buy those guns.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-shooter-salvador-ramos-classmate-121228121.html

The 18-year-old shooter who killed 21 people in Texas last week had a history of violence and “loved” abusing animals, his classmates from Uvalde High School have claimed.

Salvador Ramos was a bully who provoked other people in order to pick fights and was seen hurting dogs, they alleged, countering the family’s claim that he was bullied for stuttering.

“He would go to the park and try to pick on people and he loved hurting animals,” classmate Jaime Arellano told the Daily Beast.

Others alleged that Ramos boasted about torturing animals and aired his acts of animal abuse on the French live streaming platform Yubo.

A Yubo user told ABC News that Ramos would “put cats in plastic bags, suspend them inside, throw them at the ground and throw them at people’s houses”. They claimed that Ramos would display these videos while laughing and boasting about how he and his friends “did it all the time”.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
We already have gun control in the US and if a particular State sees it fit to pass more laws they can.

It's a vast place - you cannot compare Hawaii to Mississippi and say a particular law would work in both states.

What people, in many states, don't want is braindead morons or kings in far off place taking things away from them.

There's a push for Americans to fight each other, the powers push for it but there isn't going to be a civil war or confiscation - it's going to be brownouts and empty shelves and starving babies - I know you've caught on the way things are these days.

Like Pittsey says, it's here to stay.
I all but agreed with everything you said. I even brought up how European nations are like Texas and California - vastly different. I think we're talking past eachother.

You already have gun control. But that gun control is ultra lenient compared to the gun control in all other western democracies. Whenever US gun control is being discussed, the reason why it's even a discussion in the first place is because most other western democracies have much stricter gun laws and much less gun killings.

In Norway, it's not difficult to get your hands on a gun per se, but no one that isn't police or military are allowed to have automatic rifles. Even for hunting. You can't shoot people that trespass on your lawn. The only way you could get off a charge revolving around you shooting a gun is if it was self defense, and that everything from where you stored the gun and ammo to why you had it in your hands in the first place is in line with regulations. If you were sleeping with your gun under the pillow and shot someone coming through your window, that's not a one and done court case. I'm not sure what the fallout would be, but it would be contested and controversial. We don't shoot people, even bad people. We don't have death penalty. The idea behind prison is rehabilitation. It's not just that guns aren't everywhere, it's that the way we think about guns is vastly different. Police aren't even allowed to carry guns on them in some instances. We had one mass shooting and it's been a political issue since then. The government can call a kind of "state of emergency" that gives police right to carry guns at all times, but it's usually issued around national day or if the "secret police" are anticipating terror, or similar stuff. It may sound crazy but remember our gun statistics. It actually works, or so the numbers would have us all believe.

If I take an automatic rifle and drive out into the middle of nowhere and pepper the sky, that's illegal. Automatic rifles are illegal. For every other type of weapon, you either need to be in like a pistol club. Then you can apply to the police, and if your record is clear, that allows you to buy pistols. To get a a hunter's license, you have to pass a test, and if you fail, that means you don't get the liscense. If you do, that lets you buy semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.

I know this is anecdotal, but I saw Bowling for Columbine. In a country where banks give you a rifle if you open an account with them, that to me just tells a story about how embedded guns are in american culture. How differently you think about guns and the right to own a gun, compared to everyone else in the comparable parts of the world (meaning the countries with somewhat the same values and belief systems). I was trying to tie the american weapon issue into american history with the story about a distant and foreign land inhabited by natives that maybe weren't all friendly. The "wild west", outlaws, sheriffs, and so on.
 
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I get the confusion because I can imagine being in that country where the gov isn't running guns and unarmed cops can talk people out of situations. We have problems here with mental health, prison system, government corruption - you name it, we have it here and those are the exact reasons why people want firearms.

Laws only apply to the powerless in America and that really to me means lawlessness.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
I get the confusion because I can imagine being in that country where the gov isn't running guns and unarmed cops can talk people out of situations. We have problems here with mental health, prison system, government corruption - you name it, we have it here and those are the exact reasons why people want firearms.

Laws only apply to the powerless in America and that really to me means lawlessness.
These are not solely American issues. But I don't expect you to understand that as you're American and therefore think America is the centre of the world
 
These are not solely American issues. But I don't expect you to understand that as you're American and therefore think America is the centre of the world
I heard about a Japanese guy that used a 3D printer to print a gun so he could use it to kill himself. It's not going away.

I do wish the American government would stop acting like they're the center of the world and bullying the rest of the world. I can agree with that. I could battle with you on criticism of America but I'm afraid I'd win by a large margin. :D

Roughly a fifth of incarcerated people on Earth are in US prisons and roughly a fifth of those inmates are there for weapons charge.

Another American problem - health care, opioids, Big Pharma, CIA, war on drugs.

68 yr-old pain meds addict found guilty in clinic mass shooting.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news...trial/89-f32e4842-1409-43d0-b152-31cc7d0e1412

B.C. gun shops see surge in customers after Canada moves to cap handgun sales
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...-canada-moves-to-cap-handgun-sales/ar-AAY11Qx
 
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Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
I heard about a Japanese guy that used a 3D printer to print a gun so he could use it to kill himself. It's not going away.

I do wish the American government would stop acting like they're the center of the world and bullying the rest of the world. I can agree with that. I could battle with you on criticism of America but I'm afraid I'd win by a large margin. :D

Roughly a fifth of incarcerated people on Earth are in US prisons and roughly a fifth of those inmates are there for weapons charge.

Another American problem - health care, opioids, Big Pharma, CIA, war on drugs.

68 yr-old pain meds addict found guilty in clinic mass shooting.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news...trial/89-f32e4842-1409-43d0-b152-31cc7d0e1412

B.C. gun shops see surge in customers after Canada moves to cap handgun sales
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...-canada-moves-to-cap-handgun-sales/ar-AAY11Qx
Do you ever post anything besides propaganda or hearsay?
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
What do you guys think about this "new" criticism of Pride Month and companies merely changing their profile pictures on social media to a rainbow flag and not much else?

I say "new" because the criticism has been around, to me, for several years now. I think Facebook allowed you to do something similar over a decade ago with your profile picture for various different causes and Pride being one of them. But over the past 5 or so years, I noticed it was the Conservative group that tried to move the goal posts once they realized their homophobia was drowned out by big corporations doing this change and it stayed that way for any kind of superficial activism companies did. Supporting women, Pride, Black History Month, etc. But only this year or maybe even last year have I heard criticisms of these companies from everyone equally. And it's not just for Pride month either; I've heard it over the past few years for Black History Month or Latino History Month too. But it's really been loud this month of June and we're only 4 days in.

I never expected most companies to actually do something about it and I realize it's to cater to the majority and not just members of those groups (Black, LGBT, Latino, Asian, women, etc.) to make money. It's just strange to see a common deflection by some conservatives over the past decade or so finally seep across the aisle.

The reason I posted this is because Rakuten straight up changed their site logo to a rainbow "R" so now I have a big, gay, "R" on my toolbar for bookmarks and its annoying.
 
Sorry for the late post... I was busy looking at photos of Asian trans women.

Speaking of corporations, I've been noticing that some churches around here have rainbows.

I heard a hearsay about US embassies flying the rainbow too. :p

Maybe the powers are trying to replay the roaring 1920s - hate to see the replay of 30s :confused:
 
Roses are red, violets are blue
If you think corporations care, you're dead in the head

I was thinking about corporate takeover of "human rights" causes, like George Floyd...

It got to be too long so I just said fuck it and lets have gay olympics.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
Lol, I actually didn't catch this, so had to look into it.

Apparently she was interrogated on june 2nd. The woman that's charged was on a debate program over here back in january, and I actually saw that. What we're seeing here imo is Norway lagging behind the US in the "trans question" or whatever you wanna call it. It's the progressive left movement you've been dealing with over there for a while now, starting to bloom up over here. This is a norwegian, and to a lesser extent european phenomenon. The shit gets released in the US, then we get it way later. The same way Nintendo did you guys back in the 90s. We're just a secondary market to you guys :D

What I predict will happen is this woman will make a good case for why this is a scientific opinion in a scientific debate and therefore not discrimination. For the police, this is damn near a political issue. They can't not at least pretend like they're treating it seriously, so they call her in. I can't think of any good other examples of people being called in to interrogations with nothing happening afterward right now but this is not uncommon for how law works here. This is just a theory of mine, but I think it's part of a preventive strategy. If they bring in anyone and everyone that might be doing something wrong, they get the ones that would otherwise slip through the cracks if they were only selectively interrogating people that got charged with stuff. I've admitted to drinking and driving in a police quesitoning without having charges pressed on me. The situation was special and I was somewhat of a victim of pressure and fear, but my point is, police here is so very different from over there. Not that I know over there, but you get what I'm saying! American police shows don't translate very well for us. Norwegian police are very humane in their approach. Those pictures up there told a somewhat true story. That picture of norwegian police is from our national day, where children parade through the capitol. I think we're pretty unique in that we don't have military or armed forces on our national day, there's no gun salutes or cannons being fired. Police are unarmed. Nearby are police in vehicles with guns available, it's a children's parade and we're obviously not complete idiots, we just don't lift the guns and the war machine up front and center. Our national day is about the children and the future. I love my country.

Back to the trans thing, I doubt anything will happen beyond what's already happened. If it goes to court, the trans person will lose 100%. But since hate crimes are very relevant right now, and because the police (probably) have some guidelines for what to prioritize, that's why they even entertain this. Like I said, I watched the interview, and they're (the charged woman and the trans person) just talking past each other. If we use the biological definition of male/female as our basis, what she said was factually correct and irrefutable. Her "angle" in the program was the scientific angle which is hard to make illegal. Norway is mostly atheist. We have a state church and it has way more members than you see people at Sunday mass lol. For the most part, like 7-8 (or more) out of 10 people don't practice religion or believe in God. Let me put it like this: I have not known a single actually devout Christian out of the hundreds of people I've known in my life. No one in my high school were religious. I had one friend in primary school whose parents were Jehova's witnesses. That's the only person I can think of that I grew up around or knew in my life, that actually practices religion. I didn't actively avoid them or anything, I'm trying to say that it's so uncommon up here in the cold north, you literally never encounter them. I only bring it up to say that the scientific angle weighs heavily in our population. This is trans community pandering. But let's see, I'll keep watching this.
 
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