This is my thread

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
SOFI will have read it, but.... This is how we view your gun laws in England.




The gun control that works: no guns


I HESITATE to offer thoughts about the school shooting in Connecticut that has seen 20 children and seven adults murdered and the gunman also dead. Your correspondent has been in the rural Midwest researching a column and heard the news on the car radio. Along with a sense of gloom, I found I mostly wanted to see my own, elementary-school-age children back home in Washington, DC, and had little desire to listen to pundits of any stripe: hence my reluctance to weigh in now.

To be fair, on NPR, the liberal columnist E.J. Dionne had sensible things to say about President Barack Obama’s statement on the killings, and how it was probably significant when the president seemed to suggest that he was minded to take action on gun control, and never mind the politics. On the same show the moderate conservative columnist, David Brooks, expressed sensible caution about assuming that stricter gun controls could have stopped this particular shooting.

Switching to red-blooded conservative talk radio, I found two hosts offering a “move along, nothing to see here” defence of the status quo. One suggested that listeners should not torment themselves trying to understand “craziness”, though it would, the pair agreed, be understandable if some parents were tempted to remove their children from public education and homeschool them.

To that debate, all I can offer is the perspective of someone who has lived and worked in different corners of the world, with different gun laws.

Here is my small thought. It is quite possible, perhaps probable, that stricter gun laws of the sort that Mr Obama may or may not be planning, would not have stopped the horrible killings of this morning. But that is a separate question from whether it is a good idea to allow private individuals to own guns. And that, really, is what I think I understand by gun control. Once you have guns in circulation, in significant numbers, I suspect that specific controls on things like automatic weapons or large magazines can have only marginal effects. Once lots of other people have guns, it becomes rational for you to want your own too.

The first time that I was posted to Washington, DC some years ago, the capital and suburbs endured a frightening few days at the hands of a pair of snipers, who took to killing people at random from a shooting position they had established in the boot of a car. I remember meeting a couple of White House correspondents from American papers, and hearing one say: but the strange thing is that Maryland (where most of the killings were taking place) has really strict gun laws. And I remember thinking: from the British perspective, those aren’t strict gun laws. Strict laws involve having no guns.

After a couple of horrible mass shootings in Britain, handguns and automatic weapons have been effectively banned. It is possible to own shotguns, and rifles if you can demonstrate to the police that you have a good reason to own one, such as target shooting at a gun club, or deer stalking, say. The firearms-ownership rules are onerous, involving hours of paperwork. You must provide a referee who has to answer nosy questions about the applicant's mental state, home life (including family or domestic tensions) and their attitude towards guns. In addition to criminal-record checks, the police talk to applicants’ family doctors and ask about any histories of alcohol or drug abuse or personality disorders.

Vitally, it is also very hard to get hold of ammunition. Just before leaving Britain in the summer, I had lunch with a member of parliament whose constituency is plagued with gang violence and drug gangs. She told me of a shooting, and how it had not led to a death, because the gang had had to make its own bullets, which did not work well, and how this was very common, according to her local police commander. Even hardened criminals willing to pay for a handgun in Britain are often getting only an illegally modified starter’s pistol turned into a single-shot weapon.

And, to be crude, having few guns does mean that few people get shot. In 2008-2009, there were 39 fatal injuries from crimes involving firearms in England and Wales, with a population about one sixth the size of America’s. In America, there were 12,000 gun-related homicides in 2008.

I would also say, to stick my neck out a bit further, that I find many of the arguments advanced for private gun ownership in America a bit unconvincing, and tinged with a blend of excessive self-confidence and faulty risk perception.

I am willing to believe that some householders, in some cases, have defended their families from attack because they have been armed. But I also imagine that lots of ordinary adults, if woken in the night by an armed intruder, lack the skill to wake, find their weapon, keep hold of their weapon, use it correctly and avoid shooting the wrong person. And my hunch is that the model found in places like Japan or Britain—no guns in homes at all, or almost none—is on balance safer.

As for the National Rifle Association bumper stickers arguing that only an armed citizenry can prevent tyranny, I wonder if that isn’t a form of narcissism, involving the belief that lone, heroic individuals will have the ability to identify tyranny as it descends, recognise it for what it is, and fight back. There is also the small matter that I don’t think America is remotely close to becoming a tyranny, and to suggest that it is is both irrational and a bit offensive to people who actually do live under tyrannical rule.

Nor is it the case that the British are relaxed about being subjects of a monarch, or are less fussed about freedoms. A conservative law professor was recently quoted in the papers saying he did not want to live in a country where the police were armed and the citizens not. I fear in Britain, at least, native gun-distrust goes even deeper than that: the British don’t even like their police to be armed (though more of them are than in the past).

But here is the thing. The American gun debate takes place in America, not Britain or Japan. And banning all guns is not about to happen (and good luck collecting all 300m guns currently in circulation, should such a law be passed). It would also not be democratic. I personally dislike guns. I think the private ownership of guns is a tragic mistake. But a majority of Americans disagree with me, some of them very strongly. And at a certain point, when very large majorities disagree with you, a bit of deference is in order.

So in short I am not sure that tinkering with gun control will stop horrible massacres like today’s. And I am pretty sure that the sort of gun control that would work—banning all guns—is not going to happen. So I have a feeling that even a more courageous debate than has been heard for some time, with Mr Obama proposing gun-control laws that would have been unthinkable in his first term, will not change very much at all. Hence the gloom.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
tl;dr

but umm, yeah, I'm down with banning assault weapons and the long extended clips and whatnot. Just let me buy a glock if I choose to.



ever thought of making alcohol at home? this little distilling angel seems to do the trick: http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/7959
Fuuny enough, no. I buy it, it's easier.

As for handguns. 75% of all gun related deaths atributed to a hand gun. Easier to conceal.
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
if it's gun related, it's probably due to a hand gun. :)

because not everyone walks around with an AR-15. I'm speaking in regards to what we can do to shut people up about gun control in regards to mass shootings.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
lol chief keef.

I had no hopes for T.I's. I haven;t been looking for his since like Urban Legend or whatever album was after that.

I'm digging Rocky's so far. I like Suddenly a lot
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
You're article hits the nail on the head, really.
I agree. The article was spot on. In most of Europe people wouldn't even think of a possibility of getting shot because nobody has guns. If you are getting robbed the bad outcome is getting your ass whooped. I don't even remember the last time someone actually shot a person in Poland.
Some might argue there are some cases of guys who kill others with knives but really that's very rare these days - approaching and stabbing someone with a knife isn't as easy as pulling a trigger, risks of failure are so much higher and it's a big enough barrier for your average wannabe-killer.

Now if I heard that there was a sniper on the loose it would effectively make me leave the city. The thought that any person can have a gun is really scary because I've met people who would surely feel like taking advantage of one if they had it. Ridiculous situations could turn tragic.
Also, I believe that guns give power to those who didn't have it for a reason. Those who somehow managed to get a hold of a gun in Europe killed because their stupid shit was ignored. When something like this happens the whole Europe remembers for years, in America it's a sad reality - people get moved and feel bad for the victims until the next inevitable school shooting happens. Also, if getting bullied at school doesn't teach you to man up you don't deserve to have a gun because you're a potential tragedy in the making.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
New show on NBC called 1600 Penn. Gave it a shot on Hulu. Wasn't disappointed. It's a decent show so far, although it only has one episode. Just started, I think.

The son really comes off as annoying at first, like a Jonah Hill-wannabe, but it gets a bit better towards the end. There were some quality laughs in there, not cheap shitty ones. It was good enough that it made me hope it gets some more exposure to allow it to get the ball rolling a bit more. Reminded me of two shows that I was hoping would go to shit, and it seems one of them did, Animal Practice and The Mindy Project. What utter shit shows.

Link in case you wanna watch: http://www.hulu.com/watch/436193
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Dunno who he is. Saw a post on Facebook by someone Indian kid hipster. His first post in months on Facebook, and it was to break the news on what is apparently some underground group.
 

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