The Documentary vs. The Massacre

[slang]

the Porduction on Game´s is good, the prod on 50´s is very Good, the lyrics on Game´s is line going to an irc channel and input the /names com in !!! that nigga named all the ppl dead and alive in the fuckin´album, i did bup that shit for 2 weeks, right now i haven´t listened to tit for like 4 weeks or sumthin´ he has hot prod on the album but lyric wise it´s garbage

games lyrics 2\5
game´s prod 4\5

50 lyrics 4\5
50´s prod 4,5\5

i´m still listenig to 50´salbum everyday, i got annoyed by game´s album, it´s so boring right now to listen to it, that why i like to go the club and bounce to "how we do" in there, because it feels good to listen one time or two in 3 weeks but like always ... naaaaaaahh man i still can hear all tracks by 50, i found out some sites already with is lyrics, they are like 97% correct and it gives you an accurate idea of what´s goin´on with his shit !!! it´s gonna sell like water in Somalia man !!!

 

[Euphanasia]

1.) I don't think anyone who is informed and knowledgeable about hip hop will agree it's a good album much less a classic.
2.) Fabolous isn't a good rapper either.
3.) So the classic criteria for an album is: emotion and flow???

Their is next to no meaningful content on the album:
1.) Talks about guns, fast cars, him getting shot, bitches, his gang ties and what it's like in the ghetto. If you think that's meaningful content you need to get out. The same mediocore tedious subjects we've grown accustomed to hearing from second rate rappers who have nothing intellectual to offer. The thing is, I could listen to an album about these topics quite easily if it were done well; tight lyrics, original concepts, dope wordplay, deep introspective / emotive ballads.
2.) Name drops on nearly every track - that's not meaningful content.

Game is nothing special. Take away the hot production (about eleven tracks) on his album, take away the Shady / Aftermath slant and if this was an indie release it would get laughed at by every self respecting hip hop head in the country. Production has saved Game from becoming a laughins stock.

A classic album needs to be flawless in every aspect. The only aspect of The Documentry that is above average are the beats and even the beats aren't flawless.

I don't think that an album has to be flawless to be a classic, i think it has to be close to flawless. I can't think of one rap album that is completely flawless. And yes, there is a lot of talk about bitches and fast cars and name dropping, but living in the ghetto and getting shot is meaningful content because it's real and it's about his life. Not to mention deeply personal songs like "Like Father Like Son," the rivalry between the bloods and crips, his "pops [leaving him] in a foster home," trouble getting signed, "murder inc, rockafella passed up" - you can go on and on

To be honest, I think the real issue here derives from the fact that everyone has their own preferences. What one person thinks is meaningful and powerful, may be garbage to someone else. I'm going to give a short list of my favorite rappers and I'm willing to bet you're opinions differ on a lot of them.

*With the exception of the first 3, these are not in order, just put down randomly.

Tupac, Big L, Eminem, Game, Nas, Jay Z, Talib Kweli, 50 Cent, Jadakiss, Sheek, Biggie, Juelez Santana, Fabolous, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks, et cetera (to name a few).

-Also, it's ironic that you state you admire "dope wordplay," but you don't like Fabolous

 

[Duke]

what the mutherfuck?? people calling documentary a classic?? shit aint even been out for a year!!!

a classic is a classic when its being bumped by the heads 10 years after dropping!! and only then.

damn groupies up in here sucking Game's dick like he the messiah! as a whole the album wasn't bad. production was hot but that's it really. game is a very mediocre lyricist, at best. the first person to claim Game's lyrics are actually good, i'm up in they spot raping they moms cos you honestly can't claim he's an excellent rapper.

and if you do, go listen to barbra streisand. that might be more up in yo lane

 

[cm_millionaire]

if u thought jigga not a legend why is it disgustin for comparisons with game/jigga
sooooooooo....i think its time to put jigga up there, hes made more consistent material then nas. :thumb:

- Because Jay Z is a hundred times more talented than The Game is.
- I'm going to revise that list when I've got time. :thumb:

I don't think that an album has to be flawless to be a classic, i think it has to be close to flawless. I can't think of one rap album that is completely flawless.

-Even if your definition differs from my mine it's still an average album and I'm being nice.
-I can think of ten - the one example that always comes to mind for me is 'Illmatic' simply put the best hip hop album ever made.

And yes, there is a lot of talk about bitches and fast cars and name dropping, but living in the ghetto and getting shot is meaningful content because it's real and it's about his life. Not to mention deeply personal songs like "Like Father Like Son," the rivalry between the bloods and crips, his "pops [leaving him] in a foster home," trouble getting signed, "murder inc, rockafella passed up" - you can go on and on.

-We've heard it a million times already.
- There are a million other rappers who can talk about these issues and actually make them jump out of a disc and encroach upon your mind. In short, there are a million rappers who can do deep and meaningful content and do it well. Game isn't one of them.

To be honest, I think the real issue here derives from the fact that everyone has their own preferences. What one person thinks is meaningful and powerful, may be garbage to someone else.

-The real issue here is I listen to lots and lots of hip hop you obviously haven't heard and therefore in a better position to make an informed decision about what is good material.
-If you listened to as much as I do and still thought Game was better than say MF Doom, After checking you into rehab I'd respect your opinion.
- If you like Dre beats (doesn't everyone) and you only listen to mainstream garbage of course your going to think The Game is hot.

I'm going to give a short list of my favorite rappers and I'm willing to bet you're opinions differ on a lot of them.
*With the exception of the first 3, these are not in order, just put down randomly.
Tupac, Big L, Eminem, Game, Nas, Jay Z, Talib Kweli, 50 Cent, Jadakiss, Sheek, Biggie, Juelez Santana, Fabolous, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks, et cetera (to name a few).

-Every rapper you have mentioned is mainstream.
-Your inclusion of Game, 50, Sheek, Juelez Santana, Fabolous, Young Buck and Lloyd Banks reinforces every assuption I have about you.
- I hope you like Kweli because of his early work with Hi Tek and not the 'terrible struggle'.
-I'm being nice not condemning Eminem and Jadakiss but I'm already embroiled in a similar conversation in another thread.

-Also, it's ironic that you state you admire "dope wordplay," but you don't like Fabolous

It's just stupid you think Fabolous has dope wordplay when I'm willing to bet you haven't listened to Saigon, MF Doom, Brother Ali, Edan, Sage Francis, Lil Wayne, etc..
-Give me one example of 'dope wordplay' from Fabolous that he hasn't jacked from a better emcee.

I'm so tired of arguing my corner to people who only listen to mainstream hip hop and think they can hand out 'classic' album tags to whoever 'insert rapper of the moment here' is.

 

[2Pac-arab]

None of Eminem's albums are classic.

To say its classic would be to put it on the same platue as Illmatic, Doggystyle, Aquemini, Cuban Linx, 7 Day Theory, Ready to Die, Chronic, etc.....I honestly believe none of Em's albums are on that level.

The Marshal Mathers is really a classic album

 

[2Pac-arab]

The Documentary absolutely ... No Talk The Masscare goes straight to the garbage !

Close This Theard (

 

[haunted]

games lyrics 2\5
game´s prod 4\5

50 lyrics 4\5
50´s prod 4,5\5

You're joking right? Games lyrics are 10 times better than 50 cents.

 

[Euphanasia]

-

-Even if your definition differs from my mine it's still an average album and I'm being nice.
-I can think of ten - the one example that always comes to mind for me is 'Illmatic' simply put the best hip hop album ever made.

Um, yes, 'Illmatic' is classic, no it is not the best hip hop album ever made, and no it is not perfect - there aren't any bad songs on that album, but there are ones that could have been a lot better

-We've heard it a million times already.
- There are a million other rappers who can talk about these issues and actually make them jump out of a disc and encroach upon your mind. In short, there are a million rappers who can do deep and meaningful content and do it well. Game isn't one of them.

I wish this was true; it's hard to find more than a handful of rappers today who actually talk about their lives in a way that is appealing and effective

-The real issue here is I listen to lots and lots of hip hop you obviously haven't heard and therefore in a better position to make an informed decision about what is good material.
-If you listened to as much as I do and still thought Game was better than say MF Doom, After checking you into rehab I'd respect your opinion.
- If you like Dre beats (doesn't everyone) and you only listen to mainstream garbage of course your going to think The Game is hot.

I don't doubt that you listen to a wide variety of hip hop. But I am not interested in underground rap too much, a friend of mine loaned me a cd entitled 'jeidi mind tricks' or something like that and i wasn't really feeling it. This does not insinuate that enjoy all mainstream hip hop. I hate rappers like Nelly, Ludacris, Chingy, Bone Crusher, et cetera. Why? They have horrible, futile lyrics, awful voices, vain content, and bad flows. The criteria in a rapper that matters to me is lyrics, flow, content, and voice. A few of these make a good rapper, all of them make a great rapper. Is Game a great rapper? I'm not saying that, he'll never be a legend. But he has more skills than the majority of people out right now

-Every rapper you have mentioned is mainstream.
-Your inclusion of Game, 50, Sheek, Juelez Santana, Fabolous, Young Buck and Lloyd Banks reinforces every assuption I have about you.
- I hope you like Kweli because of his early work with Hi Tek and not the 'terrible struggle'.
-I'm being nice not condemning Eminem and Jadakiss but I'm already embroiled in a similar conversation in another thread.

-Your inclusion of MF Doom, Saigon, Brother Ali, etc reinforces every assumption I have about you. Hip Hop is a wide and complex genre, (regardelss of what people assume) and there are people who prefer maintstream to underground, vice versa, and those that enjoy both. And although I have already informed you that I'm not a huge fan of underground, I have also said that I am by no means someone who is infatuated with all mainstream rap and all the hype they generate

It's just stupid you think Fabolous has dope wordplay when I'm willing to bet you haven't listened to Saigon, MF Doom, Brother Ali, Edan, Sage Francis, Lil Wayne, etc..
-Give me one example of 'dope wordplay' from Fabolous that he hasn't jacked from a better emcee.

I'm not going to look up lyrics to quote, but you don't find lines such as "And i feel like I'm getting punked, but I don't see Ashton in the grass, nor is there a camera stashed into the dash, just a guy in uniform and the passion that he has, for flashin with his badge..." and "I'll put the red dot on you like the Japan flag" and "Lookin at me like they chokin' on a chicken bone, every chick i bone can't leave the dick alone, so i know it's one of them every time i flip my phone" dope lines?

I'm so tired of arguing my corner to people who only listen to mainstream hip hop and think they can hand out 'classic' album tags to whoever 'insert rapper of the moment here' is.

And I'm tired of people who only love underground and assume that everyone who likes popular, mainstream rappers likes them only because they are commercial and not because they have genuine MC skills.

 

[Euphanasia]

Just so you know, i fucked up the response, my replies to your comments are written in the italics after your statements

one

 

[cm_millionaire]

And I'm tired of people who only love underground and assume that everyone who likes popular, mainstream rappers likes them only because they are commercial and not because they have genuine MC skills.

If you just don't like 'underground' hip hop you have problems. You cannot make that assumption based on one listen to Jedi Mind Tricks disc. I don't know why you seem to think 'underground' is so different, it's not another way out music genre it's just the hip hop mainstream with better rappers and less sales so you can't really dislike it.

As for me, if you go and check my other posts I give more than enough respect to mainstream cats I really think are rocking it right, it's not even a question of mainstream vs. underground...it's good hip hop vs. bad and your telling me your only willing to consider 10% of the rappers in this genre because you heard Jedi Mind Tricks one time and it wasn't dope.

Thats the one thing I'm trying to get across, you can try to tell me 50 Cent is the best rapper or Sheek has talent and the reason I laugh is because the mainstream makes up about 10% of the artists in this country. I try and listen to that 10% but spend just as much time on the other 90% so who's more qualified to have an opinion?

 

[Euphanasia]

If you just don't like 'underground' hip hop you have problems. You cannot make that assumption based on one listen to Jedi Mind Tricks disc. I don't know why you seem to think 'underground' is so different, it's not another way out music genre it's just the hip hop mainstream with better rappers and less sales so you can't really dislike it.

As for me, if you go and check my other posts I give more than enough respect to mainstream cats I really think are rocking it right, it's not even a question of mainstream vs. underground...it's good hip hop vs. bad and your telling me your only willing to consider 10% of the rappers in this genre because you heard Jedi Mind Tricks one time and it wasn't dope.

Thats the one thing I'm trying to get across, you can try to tell me 50 Cent is the best rapper or Sheek has talent and the reason I laugh is because the mainstream makes up about 10% of the artists in this country. I try and listen to that 10% but spend just as much time on the other 90% so who's more qualified to have an opinion?

I did not say I didn't like underground hip hop after listening to one jedi mind tricks disc, I used that as one example. There are advantages to underground hip hop, as well as disadvantages. I tend to prefer the more commercial ones in the end.

I'm curious to know what "commericial cats" you think are really rocking it right now

LOL now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I've been saying all along that I like 50, but he's overrated and not even that good and you write "You can try to tell me that 50 is the best rapper," come on. And as for Sheek, he's an artist that I listen to, "Walk Witt Me" was a good album.

And why didn't you respond to those Fabolous quotes I posted for you to look at earlier?

 

[Cown]

Game

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Documentary

 

[ganderson]

The Documentary Is hot not really listened 2 the massacre much but its not bad too many candy shop type songs for someone like 50. Back to the Documentary good concept for this album straight early 90's westcoast style withe samples of NWA and DRE good tunes plus no candy shop type tracks. This album could be a classic I will c how long it stays in the CD player. By the way B4 any1 strarts about underground this or I am better Quallified to judge cos I listen 2 more rap than u .........GET A LIFE

 

[k69atie]

I dunno i like them both!!!!

 

[cm_millionaire]

I did not say I didn't like underground hip hop after listening to one jedi mind tricks disc, I used that as one example. There are advantages to underground hip hop, as well as disadvantages. I tend to prefer the more commercial ones in the end.

I'm curious to know what "commericial cats" you think are really rocking it right now

LOL now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I've been saying all along that I like 50, but he's overrated and not even that good and you write "You can try to tell me that 50 is the best rapper," come on. And as for Sheek, he's an artist that I listen to, "Walk Witt Me" was a good album.

And why didn't you respond to those Fabolous quotes I posted for you to look at earlier?

1.) Why do you prefer commericial over underground when all that seperates the two for the most part is how much the artist sells? Do you just like rappers that sell or do you just prefer catchy choruses?

2.) "Walk Witt Me" would have made an above average EP, it's an average album.

3.) I didn't reply to your Fabolous lines because I was looking for the lyrics he bit his lines from and then when I found them, didn't want to embarrass you once I saw their stunning similarity....

"And i feel like I'm getting punked, but I don't see Ashton in the grass, nor is there a camera stashed into the dash, just a guy in uniform and the passion that he has, for flashin with his badge..."
- Fabolous

"I'll never get punked, I'll do Ashton in the grass while smoking a blunt, take his mobile home, call it carvan failure, the guy in the uniform got parafin tailor but he still aint hot"
- Chrome Bizzy (Underground rapper - recorded a year before Fab wrote his verse)

This verse isn't even that hot but....
"I'll put the red dot on you like the Japan flag" - Fabolous
"I'll make you see a red dot like the Japanese flag" - Jay Z (b4 Fab again)

"Lookin at me like they chokin' on a chicken bone, every chick i bone can't leave the dick alone, so i know it's one of them every time i flip my phone" - Fabolous

"Lookin at me like they chokin' on a chicken bone, every chick I bone can't leave the kid alone, can't even flip my phone cuz, these bitches getting served like get up and go" - Rubix Cube in 1999!

(maybe you just like rappers that bite? Game and 50 are great at that too)

As for cat's in the limelight doing hip hop right, there are a lot but the ones that stand out just because they are rocking out of my alpines at the moment are-
-Beanie Sigel (new album is straight fire)
-Freeway (Hot mixtape joints and Phili Freeway was dope)
-Lil Wayne (His freestyles have been off the hook recently, his latest mixtape joint is laced with skill)
-Ludacris (Has been getting progressively better with each album)
-Fat Joe ('Safe 2 Say' is stupidly dope, 'True Story' was for the most part quality - only the other Squad members ruined it in places)
-RZA (Seemed to dip but is now undergoing a renaissance of sorts; probably inspired by the passing of ODB.)

 

[Duke]

-RZA (Seemed to dip but is now undergoing a renaissance of sorts; probably inspired by the passing of ODB.)

RZA doing new shit? Dope, what's he been dropping??