Rakim > 2Pac

[ManiacDego]

2pac wasnt a real MC, he was a rebel
u can see it by his work in his short period
he came up wit movies and hundreds of tracks

who did the same ?? or nearly the same? in hmmm about 6-7 years

 

[Devious]

You just made another thread in LTTP after Dante said not to. I believe you've already made it happen.

Nice knowin ya.

well it certainly didn't take him long to get himself banned. what a fuckin baby

here we go, the first relevant post in the thread....

Overall I disagree... Rakim is hugely influential, and his style revolutionized rap. That is without a doubt. But Tupac was a better song writer, had more hits, sold more records, and has surpassed Rakim's influence b/c the new generation of rappers looks up to Tupac like Tupac's generation looked up to Rakim. It's just the way things go... they are both legends in hip hop, but anyone under 20 has no clue what Rakim was about because they were too young when he was important.

As an MC, Rakim is better. At the same time, Tupac purposely simplified his rhymes to reach a wider audience b/c that what he saw as the best tactic to teach his people. He didn't do it for record sales like Jay-Z. One can only imagine if Tupac did not have the same upbringing what kind of lyrical beast he would have become. His intelligence alone was enough to be on a Rakim-like level.

Peace.

i said something similar in the other thread he made, but you put it better than i could :thumb:

 

[jazzdee]

Since my last thread was closed for no reason....here it is again

Discuss...

fag

 

[AmerikazMost]

here we go, the first relevant post in the thread....

Overall I disagree... Rakim is hugely influential, and his style revolutionized rap. That is without a doubt. But Tupac was a better song writer, had more hits, sold more records, and has surpassed Rakim's influence b/c the new generation of rappers looks up to Tupac like Tupac's generation looked up to Rakim. It's just the way things go... they are both legends in hip hop, but anyone under 20 has no clue what Rakim was about because they were too young when he was important.

As an MC, Rakim is better. At the same time, Tupac purposely simplified his rhymes to reach a wider audience b/c that what he saw as the best tactic to teach his people. He didn't do it for record sales like Jay-Z. One can only imagine if Tupac did not have the same upbringing what kind of lyrical beast he would have become. His intelligence alone was enough to be on a Rakim-like level.

Peace.

This is what I love about this site and the Tupac worshippers that sign up to it. "Tupac purposely simplified his rhymes." "He wanted to reach a wider audience." "He wanted to teach his people." blah blah BLAH. STFU.

Tupac had simple rhyme schemes and structure because he couldn't compete with the Rakim's and the Kool G Rap's if he had chosen to take that style. Tupac was a poet who rapped, alright? His lyrical structure was simpler because that's what best suited his talent, not because he chose to be that type of rapper. The fact is that Tupac could not use the other style and be a first tier rapper. He probably wouldn't have even been second tier. His structure was simpler because it had to be.

And what the hell does his upbrining have to do with it? You're telling me that his structure would have been more complex if he hadn't gone to the Baltimore School of Arts? Bullshit.

Rakim is better than 2Pac in many ways - flow, wordplay, structure - but overall, 2Pac > Rakim. Pac had the ability to reach his listeners like no other rapper could. He had more presence on the microphone and more meaning in his lyrics.

They're 1 and 2 in my book. Two completely different types of rappers though.

Tupac is the greatest in my book as well, but stop saying that he could do everything at the highest level, because he couldn't.

 

[albohemia]

This is a stupid thread because...

This forum is primarily visited by hip hop fans fond of 2Pac to an extremis. As a result this debate will be largely impaired / ruined through biased opinion tinged with madcap beliefs.

....of course I might be wrong but I've seen it happen a hundred times already and don't expect to be suprised.

 

[killahill187um]

This is a stupid thread because...

This forum is primarily visited by hip hop fans fond of 2Pac to an extremis. As a result this debate will be largely impaired / ruined through biased opinion tinged with madcap beliefs.

....of course I might be wrong but I've seen it happen a hundred times already and don't expect to be suprised.

:thumb: exactly

 

[kman_69]

can't really compare the 2.....one is a lyricist, and one was more of a heart felt artist...

as an MC i would say Rakim....but thats not the only reason people loved Pac...

also, they are 2 different generations...so its pointless to try and compare them really...especially since they never had beef or anything..

the only reason you would compare 2 artists from different generations would be if they had beef...i.e KRS & Nelly....

 

[W210]

Yea dont get me wrong, I like 2pac alot, but there has always just been somthing about him I didnt really like. Is it true he was never arrested until he started putting out cd's. I heard on one of the many 2pac movies that, he loved the thug lifestyle, but never really lived it until he started rapping about it. So he was different from most rappers where they grow up as a gangster, but later turn to music to escape. But pac never lived that lifestyle, but when he started making music he started getting in trouble for acting like what he was rapping about. ??? I dunno just what I heard.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Yea dont get me wrong, I like 2pac alot, but there has always just been somthing about him I didnt really like. Is it true he was never arrested until he started putting out cd's. I heard on one of the many 2pac movies that, he loved the thug lifestyle, but never really lived it until he started rapping about it. So he was different from most rappers where they grow up as a gangster, but later turn to music to escape. But pac never lived that lifestyle, but when he started making music he started getting in trouble for acting like what he was rapping about. ??? I dunno just what I heard.

Do some reading up on him and you'll get a better feel for how his life was.

As he put it: "I never had a record 'til I made a record."

 

[KAMIKAZI]

This is a stupid thread because...

This forum is primarily visited by hip hop fans fond of 2Pac to an extremis. As a result this debate will be largely impaired / ruined through biased opinion tinged with madcap beliefs.

....of course I might be wrong but I've seen it happen a hundred times already and don't expect to be suprised.

Well I know that's not the case with AmerikazMost, with all his Rakim away messages on AIM.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Well I know that's not the case with AmerikazMost, with all his Rakim away messages on AIM.

lmao

I put them up there for you. Someone needs to school you on him.

 

[Da_Funk]

This is what I love about this site and the Tupac worshippers that sign up to it. "Tupac purposely simplified his rhymes." "He wanted to reach a wider audience." "He wanted to teach his people." blah blah BLAH. STFU.

Tupac had simple rhyme schemes and structure because he couldn't compete with the Rakim's and the Kool G Rap's if he had chosen to take that style. Tupac was a poet who rapped, alright? His lyrical structure was simpler because that's what best suited his talent, not because he chose to be that type of rapper. The fact is that Tupac could not use the other style and be a first tier rapper. He probably wouldn't have even been second tier. His structure was simpler because it had to be.

And what the hell does his upbrining have to do with it? You're telling me that his structure would have been more complex if he hadn't gone to the Baltimore School of Arts? Bullshit.


Tupac is the greatest in my book as well, but stop saying that he could do everything at the highest level, because he couldn't.

He actually says in an interview that he made his rhymes simplistic because it would grab peoples attention and also because that his up bringing taught him that saying things straight up and straight forward is more real than being subtle in his rhymes. Thats probably not exactl what he said but you get the gist. Whether you believe him or not is up to you I guess.

 

[Bombsquad]

He actually says in an interview that he made his rhymes simplistic because it would grab peoples attention and also because that his up bringing taught him that saying things straight up and straight forward is more real than being subtle in his rhymes. Thats probably not exactl what he said but you get the gist. Whether you believe him or not is up to you I guess.

:thumb:

Very true. Pac did say that he didn't like to beat around the bush with his messages because he felt it wasn't time to be subliminal. He straight up even said that he didn't like using similes, punchlines and all that other figurative language. If you listen to Pac, his whole style is straightforward with some poetry mixed in here and there. Very slightly would you see lyricism on his behalf. When he rhymes, it's like he's talking and or fighting.

Not to mention, he made simple rhymes for the less educated and those who dropped out early from school who may not be able to decipher complicated rhyme schemes. Tupac's whole style of writing was strategic. He knew his fanbase and who he was trying to gravitate and what he was trying to achieve.

 

[roaches]

Not to mention, he made simple rhymes for the less educated and those who dropped out early from school who may not be able to decipher complicated rhyme schemes. Tupac's whole style of writing was strategic. He knew his fanbase and who he was trying to gravitate and what he was trying to achieve.

This is some of the most condescending, patronizing, and contemptuous shit I've ever heard. If it were true, I don't know how anyone could be a fan of Pac's music without feeling spit on everytime they heard him rap.

I think it's disgusting that 2Pac fans promote and support this idea while shitting on Jay-Z and 50 Cent for saying they do the same thing, and actually advance it as an argument FOR his being better than Rakim.

"Oh, Pac could rap like that if he wanted, but he didn't because he didn't respect his audience's intelligence and needed to dumb himself to make sure they understood the powerful call to arms in 'All About U' and 'Hit Em Up'".

 

[AmerikazMost]

This is some of the most condescending, patronizing, and contemptuous shit I've ever heard. If it were true, I don't know how anyone could be a fan of Pac's music without feeling spit on everytime they heard him rap.

I think it's disgusting that 2Pac fans promote and support this idea while shitting on Jay-Z and 50 Cent for saying they do the same thing, and actually advance it as an argument FOR his being better than Rakim.

"Oh, Pac could rap like that if he wanted, but he didn't because he didn't respect his audience's intelligence and needed to dumb himself to make sure they understood the powerful call to arms in 'All About U' and 'Hit Em Up'".

lmao...thank you :thumb:

i couldn't have said it better

 

[Bombsquad]

lmao...thank you :thumb:

i couldn't have said it better

Oh please with that thumbs up.The only reason you were cosigning him is because you have nothing left to say and no true argument for yourself. Come up with something and stop trying to let someone fight your battle for you.:laugh:

 

[Bombsquad]

This is some of the most condescending, patronizing, and contemptuous shit I've ever heard. If it were true, I don't know how anyone could be a fan of Pac's music without feeling spit on everytime they heard him rap.

I think it's disgusting that 2Pac fans promote and support this idea while shitting on Jay-Z and 50 Cent for saying they do the same thing, and actually advance it as an argument FOR his being better than Rakim.

"Oh, Pac could rap like that if he wanted, but he didn't because he didn't respect his audience's intelligence and needed to dumb himself to make sure they understood the powerful call to arms in 'All About U' and 'Hit Em Up'".

Listen to what you're saying. Reread what I wrote. Dumbing down your music or rhymes means only making music that pertains to appeal and not necessarily exceeding the limits of lets say talking about real issues that pertain to society or the community. What such artists as 50 Cent and Jay-Z did was make music for monetary purposes. And when I say monetary, so many things come in association such as music for radio, video countdowns, clubs, dj's to play, for sales to boost, etc. Those guys came from a more business standpoint with their music and messages. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is, but that is not the same in tupac's case.

Pac did not do that to such extents. He took risks and put out those concious singles that may have less appeal to hip hop consumers just to put out a message. The only difference is that he simply made his rhymes more accessible/universal for everyone to understand. That right there is smart. A 5-9 yr. old could listen to a Pac record and could understand the message more than lets say a Nas record.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Listen to what you're saying. Reread what I wrote. Dumbing down your music or rhymes means only making music that pertains to appeal and not necessarily exceeding the limits of lets say talking about real issues that pertain to society or the community. What such artists as 50 Cent and Jay-Z did was make music for monetary purposes. And when I say monetary, so many things come in association such as music for radio, video countdowns, clubs, dj's to play, for sales to boost, etc. Those guys came from a more business standpoint with their music and messages. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is, but that is not the same in tupac's case.

Pac did not do that to such extents. He took risks and put out those concious singles that may have less appeal to hip hop consumers just to put out a message. The only difference is that he simply made his rhymes more accessible/universal for everyone to understand. That right there is smart. A 5-9 yr. old could listen to a Pac record and could understand the message more than lets say a Nas record.

Conscious songs like "I Get Around," "Temptations," "How Do You Want It," "2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted," "California Love," "Hit 'Em Up," "All About U," and "Toss It Up"?

You're full of it.

Everything you said about 50 Cent and Jay-Z is the same thing Pac tried to do with All Eyez on Me. Or was he really trying to reach people with "Thug Passion"? Wait, I guess I can see where you're coming from. My life was truely changed after listening to that one.

Your argument is that Pac dumbed down his lyrics for his listeners so they could hear his message (patronizing, yet you seem to think it's a worthy argument). But what about the songs without a message? Why don't his dumbed down songs have more complex lyrical structure? I mean, there's no point in purposely dumbing down your lyrics if you're not trying to tell you listeners anything, right? So was he just lazy on those ones? Why didn't he show off his uncanny lyricism in "Toss It Up"?




I didn't have anything to say before that I hadn't already said. You didn't trump my previous arguments, so there was no point in repeating them.

 

[EDouble]

Conscious songs like "I Get Around," "Temptations," "How Do You Want It," "2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted," "California Love," "Hit 'Em Up," "All About U," and "Toss It Up"?

that's bullshit then what about singles like

Trapped
If my homie calls
brenda's got a baby
holler if you hear me
keep ya head up
papaz song
bury me a g
pour out a little liquor
how long will they mourn me?
cradle to the grave
me against the world
so many tears
dear mama
ambitionz az a ridah
life goes on
i ain't mad at cha
hail mary
to live and die in la

you don't have to dumb Pac down to try yoyur best to make Pac look like a pop rapper to defend whatever argument youre makin

here's a new good quote from buckshot in a interview

Yeah, more of the world would’ve knew about us off the strength of that relationship, but a lot of those people are major dick riders. Part of the people genuinely have it in their heart. Everybody else wasn’t even riding with ‘Pac until he got major, and he got major when he flipped out. He got major when he was like, “Fuck y’all. I’ma give you niggas real speak. This is what y’all want-fast cars, money and hoes? Then fuckk y’all niggas then! Take it-fast cars, money and hoes! What’s crackin’?” The fucked up thing is that people still grab on to that like little kids. They still pay attention to the money, cars and hoes part and just say, “Aww fuck all that other shitt ‘Pac was talking about.” But that’s the ways of the world man, 85 percent of the population will always be deaf, dumb and blind. They’ll always be led like sheep to the slaughter.

 

[AmerikazMost]

that's bullshit then what about singles like

Trapped
If my homie calls
brenda's got a baby
holler if you hear me
keep ya head up
papaz song
bury me a g
pour out a little liquor
how long will they mourn me?
cradle to the grave
me against the world
so many tears
dear mama
ambitionz az a ridah
life goes on
i ain't mad at cha
hail mary
to live and die in la

you don't have to dumb Pac down to try yoyur best to make Pac look like a pop rapper to defend whatever argument youre makin

I'm not trying to make Pac look like a pop rapper. As I said before, I think he's the best. All I'm trying to show is that not every song he's pushed has had a message to it, and thus he doesn't always have a reason use a simple lyrical form.

They say he chooses to because he wants to reach people. I say he has to because he can't perform as well using complex structure as he can with simple.



Their train of thought..

Pac wants to reach people --> simple, comprehendible structure --> Brenda's Got a Baby

Pac wants to reach people --> simple, comprehendible structure --> Dear Mama


My train of thought..

Pac wants to reach people --> simple, comprehendible structure --> Check Out Time?




Pac used his strengths. He didn't have great lyrical ability, so he used message and his way of saying things to reach your heart and your mind. But there are people who refuse to acknowledge that he was less than perfect in any aspect.