Meatarians..

[Prize Gotti]

The commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill" refers to killing a fellow human being.

Many references to killing and eating animals are made in the bible.for example of the top of my head:the parable of the prodigal son.

I just said that for comical value. I meant some people believe it wrong to kill or treat animals the way they do. I respect that. Personally, I don't care, we're just animals like the rest.

 

[Bobby Sands]

^^Oh rite.Your post confused me lol.

 

[Casey]

I was a veggie for 8 years. I think the reason i bacame one was i used to smoke way to much weed and that got me thinking of the poor animals I still do think its a shame but it aint me thats doing the killing! I know they are killed for my purpose, but me being a veggie was not gonna stop any killing so fuck it make mines a double bacon cheese burger with cheese.


I also think that were supossed to eat meat. I mean what about all the less fortunate people who live in harsh lands where they depend on meat to surrvive? they cant just nip down to tescos for a cheese and tomatoe pasta bake.

you being a vegetarian does indeed stop the killing, it decreases the demand. you may not think it makes a lot of difference - but every beach is made up of individual grains of sand.

what you said about less fortunate people...they still eat vegetables. there is no country on the planet with animals that you can kill to eat but no vegetables being grown. and if there is no way for them to be healthy without eating meat then that is just the way life is - the point is we are not in that situation and we do have a choice. I make the choice that is more humane, healthier and does not contribute to unnecessary killing. That's the bottom line.

Why shouldn't people consume dairy products?.You need milk for healthy bones and strength.

That is a myth, Bobby.

While there are literally thousands of research studies, each revealing at least one of milk's hazards, the dairy industry goes to great lengths to stifle any damaging rumors. Blanket statements, such as, "There is simply no scientific research to back up these claims," are easily made. With a long and successful history of dairy promotion, these are readily accepted by the public. More people need to go to the real research and learn the truth for themselves. They should be very suspicious of these foreign foods being pushed on their children. They should question motives as well as possible outcomes. Although some of the dangers of cow's milk consumption relate more to adults than to children, parents' actions form the basis for lifelong dairy-consuming habits in their children.

The harmful components of cow's milk include all the major parts of it, as well as some more minor elements. Lactose is a sugar meant for babies, but it's generally harmful to adults. The proteins in cow's milk are different from human milk proteins and cause problems of digestion, intolerance, impaired absorption of other nutrients, and autoimmune reactions. Few of the proteins meant for baby cows are found naturally in human mother's milk, and none are found in any natural adult human food. Even the high protein content in cow's milk creates problems. Human babies need the saturated fats and cholesterol in mother's milk. Bovine milk fat is not appropriately composed for human babies and is only deleterious to the health of children and adults. Cow hormones are not meant for humans, and older children and adults are not meant to consume hormones. And, cows have been selectively bred over time to create high levels of these hormones—those being the cows that grow the fastest and produce the greatest amount of milk. Cows also concentrate pesticides and pollutants into their milk fat, from their high dietary food and water requirements. The high amount of drugs now given to cows adds to this chemical soup. But we need milk to build strong bones, don't we? Actually, heavy milk consumption leads to increased osteoporosis.

Deflating Dairy

The highly promoted idea that milk builds strong bones refers to the prevention of osteoporosis—this is the reason for strengthening bones. Decades of effort to demonstrate that high calcium diets chiefly derived from dairy products build strong bones have failed to prove any such correlation. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. It appears that high calcium intake before puberty, and especially in young childhood, may have some slight positive effect on bones, but this diet is not the answer. A balanced intake of all the bone minerals, along with adequate vitamin A, C, and D, is what is truly needed. A balanced intake of minerals cannot occur when the diet emphasizes dairy. Dairy's high calcium causes relative deficiencies in magnesium and other bone-building minerals, and its high phosphorus and animal protein reduces calcium availability. Physical activity has the greatest benefit—the body efficiently uses what is available to build strong bones when it senses the need. Human milk and vegetable sources are superior to dairy for calcium and other nutrients in many ways. There are fewer nutritional or other health advantages to giving cow's milk to children than is generally believed, while there are certainly many risks.

Almost every day another health research finding is made about whole grains, soy, a serving of vegetables, two fruits per day, cashews, legumes, fish, or some other food, other than milk that is, and their connection to a reduced risk of heart disease, breast cancer, stroke, diabetes, or other disease. This is because cow's milk and its derivatives today make up one-third of the adult diet, and half to two-thirds of caloric intake in children, thus replacing so much other important, nutritious food needed in the diet. This leads to insufficient intake of important vitamins, several minerals, and healthy fiber and vegetable oils. Cancer-preventing antioxidants in foods are missing in this milk diet as well. While one form of antioxidant vitamin A is added to milk (but not all dairy products), it is likely counteracted by the pesticide and drug residues. The full complement of vitamin A and associated enzymes, found in vegetables and other foods, are required for cancer prevention. Many, many more kinds of antioxidants are found in vegetables, legumes, fruits, and grains.

No other animal in the animal kingdom drinks milk beyond childhood. No other animal suffers from osteoporosis, except the occasional pet raised on human meals.

If there remains a desire to provide milk to a child who has no diarrhea, rashes, or other intolerance reactions, organic (organic—not raw) non-fat milk would be the best choice. In raw (unpasteurized) milk there can be many potentially dangerous microorganisms, in addition to the leukemia virus. In organic milk there are fewer antibiotic residues, no added hormones, and cows are given better feeds. Non-fat means less chemical residue and no artery-damaging saturated fat. Children can obtain fat in the form of non-hydrogenated (especially monosaturated) vegetable oils, be it in potato chips or cashews. Goat's milk is considered by many to be superior in many ways, and today low-fat versions are available. Much less documented information is available about goat's milk, but it appears that the proteins are less problematic for digestion, although allergic intolerance to these can also occur. Lactose and hormones would remain an issue although, to date, goats apparently are not injected with extra growth hormone.

I can not drink cow's milk, think about it, doesn't it disgust you? The health benefits are false and spread by the dairy industry, and what other animal consumes the milk of a different animal? It's completely unnatural. You may as well give a woman's breast milk to a baby cow. It's the same fucking thing and just as pointless. I for one do not want cow hormones floating around my body.

I only drink rice milk. It tastes better too.

 

[Sebastian]

I've thought about it often but I can't answer that question. I can't answer why it's wrong to kill period, I just think it is. I think most people will agree that it's wrong to kill so that should be base of how to look at things. The question should be "why is it okay?".

To me its ok to "kill" animals because its in our nature. Like in the wilderness. The strong eat the weak. Thats just the way it is.

 

[stefanwzyga]

you being a vegetarian does indeed stop the killing, it decreases the demand. you may not think it makes a lot of difference - but every beach is made up of individual grains of sand.

I know what your saying but imo your wrong. Explain to me why me on my own not eating meat is going to decrease the demand for meat?

what you said about less fortunate people...they still eat vegetables. there is no country on the planet with animals that you can kill to eat but no vegetables being grown. and if there is no way for them to be healthy without eating meat then that is just the way life is - the point is we are not in that situation and we do have a choice. I make the choice that is more humane, healthier and does not contribute to unnecessary killing. That's the bottom line.

I dont belive it is healthier.Each to there own though.


I do know where yor coming from though. On gordon ramsey last night i had to switch off when he took his lambs to the slaughter, this after rasing the lambs, and his kids playing with them. That to me is nasty.

 

[Bobby Sands]

When a lion kills an antelope, is that wrong too?

Is it wrong to kill rats and other rodents?

 

[Casey]

stefan - if you stop eating meat that decreases the demand for meat by one person. obviously.

don't you see? there's probably hundreds of millions of people in the world with that attitude "well, me not doing [whatever] won't make a difference" - but if they all did stop, it would make a MASSIVE difference!!!

change starts with yourself. looking at the man in the mirror and making that change.

. Thats just the way it is.

Baaaa!!! Look at the sheep right here.

"That's the way it is". "It's normal". "That's life". "That's how things are".

There is nothing worse than this attitude. Why is it normal? Because your parents told you it was, and their parents told them it was? Because everyone else does? Think for YOURSELF. Make your own decisions and choices and don't follow the fucking crowd.

That's the problem with the human race. Too willing to accept things as they are, not willing to question why. Half the racists and bigots in the world today probably don't even know why they are racist and prejudiced - they were raised that way and have never questioned it.

I tell you something, when I have kids I will teach them to make their own decisions based on knowledge, understanding, compassion and intelligence, and not what they percieve to be "normal".

When a lion kills an antelope, is that wrong too?

Is it wrong to kill rats and other rodents?

Lions do not have the intelligence to make a choice. Humans do.

Yes, it is wrong to kill rats and other rodents.

 

[S O F I]

Militant, most stats you provide apply to Western countries. For example, in Bosnia, a poor agricultural country by many standards, meat is much healthier than found in England and the US because of our agricultural ways. Basically, when I eat meat in Bosnia, it derived from a cow five miles away, not five thousand in some high-tech habitat.

 

[stefanwzyga]

There is nothing worse than this attitude. Why is it normal? Because your parents told you it was, and their parents told them it was? Because everyone else does? Think for YOURSELF. Make your own decisions and choices and don't follow the fucking crowd.

Thats what i do, i make up my own decisions and choices, i dont follow the crowd. Some might say your following the veggie crowd. How long have you been a veggie 1 and a half years, seems like you followed the fuckin crowd for a long time.

I tell you something, when I have kids I will teach them to make their own decisions based on knowledge, understanding, compassion and intelligence, and not what they percieve to be "normal".

I agree.:thumb:

 

[Bobby Sands]

You could argue that some humans don't have the intelligence either.

So we let rats live.What happens when they breed over and over and their numbers increase to a point where it is out of control in cities.?Rats breed numerous time a year.Eventually they will spread disease and we will have plagues.It is essential that rats are exterminated to keep their numbers down.Of course they should be killed because they have to be.

Originally Posted by SOFI
Militant, most stats you provide apply to Western countries. For example, in Bosnia, a poor agricultural country by many standards, meat is much healthier than found in England and the US because of our agricultural ways. Basically, when I eat meat in Bosnia, it derived from a cow five miles away, not five thousand in some high-tech habitat.

Same in Ireland.

 

[Casey]

Militant, most stats you provide apply to Western countries. For example, in Bosnia, a poor agricultural country by many standards, meat is much healthier than found in England and the US because of our agricultural ways. Basically, when I eat meat in Bosnia, it derived from a cow five miles away, not five thousand in some high-tech habitat.

Yeah, I don't dispute that at all.

If I was in a country such as Bosnia, I would still not eat meat due to my moral beliefs.

But, I wouldn't have any problem with it in terms of health concerns and inhumanity towards the animals.

People in Bosnia are obviously not affected by the mass cruelty and mass destruction of animals in a disgusting disease ridden environment, all for the sake of a 9.99 KFC Bucket for some white-trash family.

Thats what i do, i make up my own decisions and choices, i dont follow the crowd. Some might say your following the veggie crowd. How long have you been a veggie 1 and a half years, seems like you followed the fuckin crowd for a long time.


I agree.:thumb:

Stefan if you have seriously looked at all the facts and understand the risks, and are prepared to justify the killing of animals for your own consumption, then that's on your conscience.

I am not following the "veggie crowd" since I don't know what the "veggie crowd" purport to be right and wrong. My individual diet and moral choices came from my own questioning of what I feel is right and wrong, not anyone else's. Nobody influenced me to become a vegetarian.

The reason it took me so long is because my own mind and soul was in both a drug-clouded state and a state of emotional turmoil for a long time relating to my own personal issues and complete lack of stability when growing up. I grew up so determined to change the shitty cards I was dealt that I never had the stability to sit down and question what I knew, what I had been taught, and what my own perceptions were.

As soon as I started to become successful with what I do, and I'm not mentioning that for the sake of bragging, that gave me both the stability and the thinking time to really carve out my own spiritual identity based upon what I feel is right and wrong. Then things slowly began to take shape, and following my major-label debut and my very first trip to India (where my ethnic roots lie), I became a vegetarian.

I'm sure you can appreciate that going somewhere like India is a real eye-opener in a lot of ways. Look at the profound effect going to India had on John Lennon and George Harrison.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Originally Posted by Militant
People in Bosnia are obviously not affected by the mass cruelty and mass destruction of animals in a disgusting disease ridden environment, all for the sake of a 9.99 KFC Bucket for some white-trash family.

I agree.I never eat in KFC because of this.

 

[Chronic]

When a lion kills an antelope, is that wrong too?

The lion does it to live though. When the last time you ate a piece of meat because you'd die without it?

Is it wrong to kill rats and other rodents?

I think so. Up until they become a hazard to your health, then it's either you or them.

To me its ok to "kill" animals because its in our nature. Like in the wilderness. The strong eat the weak. Thats just the way it is.

But then by that logic it's okay to kill human beings as well. And we don't live like in the wilderness so why does it suddenly apply here?

 

[Bobby Sands]

Originally Posted by Chronic
I think so. Up until they become a hazard to your health, then it's either you or them

Every rat is a hazard to your health.

Originally Posted by Chronic
The lion does it to live though. When the last time you ate a piece of meat because you'd die without it

But couldn't he eat a few berries off a bush?The reason he hunts for meat is because its his instinct to do so.I believe its a human instinct to eat meat as well.

 

[S O F I]

Also, I applaud people who choose to be vegans. However, sometimes I see it as an indirect insult when you look at the amount of poverty throughout the world. I mean, imagine going to an impoverished village in Africa and telling an AIDS-diseased kid that you're a vegetarian and that you don't eat meat. You know?

 

[Sebastian]

But then by that logic it's okay to kill human beings as well. And we don't live like in the wilderness so why does it suddenly apply here?

Well, to me its okay to kill humans (death penalty)

We dont need to kill our own kind so that we have something to eat.

Baaaa!!! Look at the sheep right here.

"That's the way it is". "It's normal". "That's life". "That's how things are".

There is nothing worse than this attitude. Why is it normal? Because your parents told you it was, and their parents told them it was? Because everyone else does? Think for YOURSELF. Make your own decisions and choices and don't follow the fucking crowd.

Shut up you fucking idiot. Think for a second. I said "thats the way it is" in terms of "there are species out there that eat meat and some dont. Humans eat meat too. Elephants dont"..get it?

That's the problem with the human race. Too willing to accept things as they are, not willing to question why. Half the racists and bigots in the world today probably don't even know why they are racist and prejudiced - they were raised that way and have never questioned it.

I tell you something, when I have kids I will teach them to make their own decisions based on knowledge, understanding, compassion and intelligence, and not what they percieve to be "normal".

Someone give this guy a medal.

 

[Chronic]

Every rat is a hazard to your health.

Lol no.

But couldn't he eat a few berries off a bush?The reason he hunts for meat is because its his instinct to do so.I believe its a human instinct to eat meat as well.

I know tigers eat things other than meat but it needs meat in order to survive. And carnivores serve a purpose, they keep the number of herbivores' in check. We're not exactly needed for that. When nature needs a species extinct we might come in handy though.
It's also male instinct to impregnate every woman he sees. Should we surrender to instinct then? Or only when convenient?
And the fact that we can go against our instinct is one of the things that makes us human in the first place.

 

[Casey]

Also, I applaud people who choose to be vegans. However, sometimes I see it as an indirect insult when you look at the amount of poverty throughout the world. I mean, imagine going to an impoverished village in Africa and telling an AIDS-diseased kid that you're a vegetarian and that you don't eat meat. You know?

I can dig that in some ways.

But it's not really an indirect insult. It's not like meat is the only option we have and we are turning it down. Impoverished third world countries obviously have much bigger issues surrounding them.

And if you think about it...the meat industry, like all western industry, works on the basis of maximising profits to the highest degree. But where does that profit go? Back to the greedy corporations that do what they can to repress the third world countries by charging them fuck-all for their product and materials and selling them on at 10x the amount.

The US government have spent 10x what it would cost to wipe out global debt completely in third-world countries, on their defence under the Bush administration. If not supporting the meat industry, amongst others, can be in any way construed as a middle-finger towards repressive capitalist business in general, then even more reason to be with it.

Well, to me its okay to kill humans (death penalty)

We dont need to kill our own kind so that we have something to eat.

Shut up you fucking idiot. Think for a second. I said "thats the way it is" in terms of "there are species out there that eat meat and some dont. Humans eat meat too. Elephants dont"..get it?

Someone give this guy a medal.

Bite me.

Stop twisting shit around to suit you. That is not what you said. You can't add things to it now, I replied to exactly what you said, if you meant it differently then you should have been more clear in the first place.

You said "It's OK to kill animals because in the wilderness the strong eat the weak. That's the way it is". I replied to that, specifically your "that's the way it is" attitude. You can't turn that shit around now and start going on about how humans eat meat and elephants don't.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Originally Posted by Chronic
Lol no.

What i mean is that every rat that infest you home or an old shed out the back of your house could kill you.If rats urine enter a cut on your body then it may kill you.Its a very painful death as well i think.

 

[Jokerman]

Why shouldn't people consume dairy products? You need milk for healthy bones and strength.

No. You need calcium for healthy bones and teeth. See, your saying milk instead of calcium is a perfect example of the exceptionally effective advertising campaign the dairy industry has been waging for 50+ years. Getting commercial slogans accepted as scientific fact.


Does milk have a lot of calcium? Yes. So it's a good source of calcium? No. Why? Because it is a poorly absorbed calcium.

Let me tick off the problems with milk.

1. Calcium. It is a poorly utilized form of calcium. Not only that, but pasteurization profoundly affects the bioavailability of the calcium content in milk. Calcium should not be depositing diffusely throughout the body in rocklike deposits. Yet this is exactly what happens in habitual drinkers of pasteurized milk. To make it worse, the Vitamin D that’s added to milk only further aids this abnormal deposition of calcium in the body’s tissues. And if that wasn’t enough, the high protein content of milk actually pulls calcium out of the bones. This is why the country with the most milk drinkers (the US) has the highest rate of osteoporosis (brittle bones) in the world. And this is why the country that virtually drinks no milk (Japan) has the lowest rate in the world. And what Japan does drink and eat is soy, which has a great form of calcium and anti-cancer chemicals to boot.

The bioavailability of the calcium in milk relies primarily on the integrity of unheated protein carriers found naturally in milk. The heat of pasteurization is enough to denature these proteins, meaning they have been physically altered enough by the process of pasteurization to keep them from delivering calcium to the tissue sites where it’s supposed to go. What do these abnormal calcium accumulations do? Quite simply, they cause or facilitate virtually every degenerative disease known.

2. Bovine growth hormone. Commercial milk also contains bovine growth hormone, which is added to make cows grow bigger and produce more milk. By ingesting large amounts of cow’s milk, babies, children, and adults are exposing themselves to large amounts of a substance that allows the growing calf to double its size in less than one-third the time that a human infant should be doubling its weight. Bovine growth hormone is biologically active in humans. In fact, the one thing that the vast majority of large and tall people have in common is the frequent drinking of milk while growing up.

3. Antibiotics. Most commercial farms give cows antibiotics, which gets into their milk and you drink. This in turn makes the bacteria in your body become resistant to antibiotics when you get real sick.

4. Milk fat. Animal fat is a bad form of fat that contributes to heart disease. Everyone should know about this, so that’s all I’ll say.

5. Carbohydrates. There are also strong statistical links between heart disease and milk carbohydrates. Pasteurization makes things worse by allowing a more rapid absorption of lactose, increasing the rate of glucose delivery into the system.

6. Homogenization. But one more step in the processing of milk that further promotes hardening of the arteries and heart disease. Cow’s milk contains an enzyme called xanthine oxidase (XO), XO is normally attached to the fat globules in milk. Before homogenization, these globules are not easily absorbed by the gut. Afterwards, the milk fat is easily absorbed, and the attached XO gains much greater access to the bloodstream. Once in the bloodstream, they directly promote hardening of the arteries by replacing a substance called plasmalogen that’s normally found there.

7. Eating or drinking dairy with other foods makes for a bad combination that can affect how you absorb the nutrients in other foods.

8. Milk produces a lot of mucous and contributes to stomach ulcers and bad teeth.

9. I must also mention that white blood cells from cows regularly get into their milk. Another word for white blood cells is pus. All milk has some cow pus in it. Drink up.

Here's a good link to the pus issue: http://www.milksucks.com/pus.asp

Milk is simply the worse thing you can put in your body. I consider milk a toxic waste product. The milk industry should be sued even more than the tobacco industry for promoting it to children.

Remember, there are healthy alternatives to milk that will do no harm, do you good, and get you the calcium you need much better.