Film & TV FA Cup Final

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

United are purchasing a new keeper this summer so let's wait and see. It will be hard to purchase a keeper as good as Cech but hopefully Fergie has a few tricks up his sleeve.

It will be hard for Ferguson to purchase a keeper as good as Cudicini never mind Cech.

On defence I agree that it's about equal, perhaps even a slight advantage to Chelsea. I left out Neville as he's more of a utility player these days as opposed to an out and out defender.

I had thought as much - regarding Neville.

Duff is better than Robben and Giggs is as good or better than both. Ronaldo is steadily developing and is almost at their level if not quite yet. In the centre, it's Fletcher, Keane, Scholes, Kleberson & Miller against Makelele, Lampard, Geremi, Smertin & Parker. In my view United have the upperhand here. Although Lampard is the equal of any United player Fletcher, Keane, Scholes & possibly Kleberson if he regains form, are all superior players to Makelele, Geremi, Smertin & Parker. Remember United also have the advantage of an impending purchase of Essien from Lyon, if the papers are to be trusted.

I don't know, I think Robben is better than Duff now. Duff probably has an edge in terms of actual talent, but when you add Robben's form to the mix, he is better. And Giggs was - & probably remains - very talented, but he fails to produce it like he used to. He hasn't looked like a top performer in quite a while - give or take a few performances. As such, I rate both Robben & Duff ahead of him. If anyone were to challenege them from the United camp it would be Ronaldo - who I rate very highly. And yeah, he may be 'steadily developing' but what do you think Robben is doing? There's 2 or 3 years between them so they both have a while before they reach their potential.

Lampard is equal to Scholes & Makelele is equal to Keane, imo. Even if you were to disagree with the latter, to make out that Fletcher is anywhere near Makelele's standards is a fucking joke! Lampard, Geremi, Tiago & Parker>>>>>>>Fletcher. And if the papers are to be believed, United can't afford Essien - a player who has personally requested that he be sold to Chelsea.

Forsell is not as good as Smith or even Saha. Gudjohnsen is talented but not a classic out and out strker. United clearly have the advantage here. Rooney (shaping up to be possibly England's greatest ever striker) is better than Drogba and as you've pointed out no-one measures up to an in-form Ruud.

Forsell scored goals for Birmingham with ease - more ease than Smith has ever scored goals. Saha is better than him though. You say Gudjohnsen is not a classic out & out striker - neither is Rooney or Smith. And it's hard to say that Rooney is a better striker than Drogba when Rooney is hardly deployed as a striker. He is a better player though.

It's been reported that United have 100 million pounds plus to spend on transfers over the next 4 seasons. Now while this cannot match Chelsea's budget, with the combination of shrewd purchases by Fergie, the use of talented youngsters like Miller and Kiran Richardson (a defininte up coming star if his performances at West Brom are anything to go by) and the continued development of our youth programme, United can be at least a match for Chelsea on this front.

Its been more widely reported than united will have 80M over the next 4 years - 20M a season. 'Shrewd purchases'?? Like.......? Ferguson has made some decent signings over the years but his record isn't the best. You rate Kleberson highly, but what has he done? Veron was a waste of money, as was Forlan - both of whom, actually had talent.

Miller=average. And average is not good enough if United want to recapture their former glory.

Richardson=less than average. An arrogant twat who couldn't make the grade in the United first team, put in some decent performances for West Brom & thought he was a hero the other day when he wasn't.

Your youth programme hasn't produced good players en masse for over a decade.

United have no chance of matching Chelsea in the forseeable future, especially if Mourinho decides to go on a shopping spree.

 

[Zero Cool]

I don't know, I think Robben is better than Duff now. Duff probably has an edge in terms of actual talent, but when you add Robben's form to the mix, he is better. And Giggs was - & probably remains - very talented, but he fails to produce it like he used to. He hasn't looked like a top performer in quite a while - give or take a few performances. As such, I rate both Robben & Duff ahead of him. If anyone were to challenege them from the United camp it would be Ronaldo - who I rate very highly. And yeah, he may be 'steadily developing' but what do you think Robben is doing? There's 2 or 3 years between them so they both have a while before they reach their potential. Lampard is equal to Scholes & Makelele is equal to Keane, imo. Even if you were to disagree with the latter, to make out that Fletcher is anywhere near Makelele's standards is a fucking joke! Lampard, Geremi, Tiago & Parker>>>>>>>Fletcher. And if the papers are to be believed, United can't afford Essien - a player who has personally requested that he be sold to Chelsea.

Makelele is a good defensive midfielder but nothing more. Fletcher is certainly at his level. It must also be remembered that Fletcher is very young and has a long career ahead of him, Makelele does not. Robben is pompous and devoid of much natural talent (excluding his speed), both Duff and Giggs are much better all-round players. His performance against Liverpool in the CL did little to change my opinion on him. Kleberson has had a long degree of injuries and has been extremely unlucky thus far. Possessing full fitness and on form Kleberson >>>>> Geremi, Tiago & Parker and possibly even Makelele. On Essien I've heard conflicting stories. We'll just have to wait to see how it pans out.

Forsell scored goals for Birmingham with ease - more ease than Smith has ever scored goals. Saha is better than him though. You say Gudjohnsen is not a classic out & out striker - neither is Rooney or Smith. And it's hard to say that Rooney is a better striker than Drogba when Rooney is hardly deployed as a striker. He is a better player though.

Rooney is a better player than Gudjohnsen & Drogba and a more natural striker than either as well.

Its been more widely reported than united will have 80M over the next 4 years - 20M a season. 'Shrewd purchases'?? Like.......? Ferguson has made some decent signings over the years but his record isn't the best. You rate Kleberson highly, but what has he done? Veron was a waste of money, as was Forlan - both of whom, actually had talent.

Heinze has been THE defensive signing of the year. Admittedly Fergie has made some mistakes but his transfer record is far superior than what you give him credit for. Remember these names? Eric Cantona, Peter Schmicheal, Gary Pallister, Steve Bruce, Denis Irwin, Paul Ince, Van Nistelrooy etc.? In the transfer market there are not many as shrewd as Ferguson. Today it was reported on Sky that Glazer has pledged 100 million plus to our coffers for the next four seasons, therefore we have a good deal of money to play around with. Not as much as you maybe but definitely enough.

Miller=average. And average is not good enough if United want to recapture their former glory.

I disagree. Miller is a very talented player who, if given a chance, could shine at OT.

Richardson=less than average. An arrogant twat who couldn't make the grade in the United first team, put in some decent performances for West Brom & thought he was a hero the other day when he wasn't.

That's rubbish. I watched Richardson in the youth cup final against Middlesborough a few years ago and even then he played everyone off the park. He's a very young player and like a certain David Beckham he was loaned out to a lower club to help hone his skills. When he returns to OT I think he could become a big part of the club's plans.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Makelele is a good defensive midfielder but nothing more. Fletcher is certainly at his level. It must also be remembered that Fletcher is very young and has a long career ahead of him, Makelele does not. Robben is pompous and devoid of much natural talent (excluding his speed), both Duff and Giggs are much better all-round players. His performance against Liverpool in the CL did little to change my opinion on him. Kleberson has had a long degree of injuries and has been extremely unlucky thus far. Possessing full fitness and on form Kleberson >>>>> Geremi, Tiago & Parker and possibly even Makelele. On Essien I've heard conflicting stories. We'll just have to wait to see how it pans out.

Nothing more? Have you failed to notice how Madrid's fortunes have changed without him? Makelele is THE best defensive midfielder in the world right now. Fletcher is nothing more than potential.

Robben is pompous? wtf? He's a natural dribbler, bypassing players like they weren't there. And he's got really quick feet. Liverpool? Wait, you want to use about injuries in the case of Kleberson but just ignore the fact that Robben wasn't fit playing against Liverpool? Possessing full fitness & on form Robben>>>>>>Giggs & Ronaldo. And no Kleberson isn't better than Makelele. I would say an on-form Makelele but really, when is the man no on-form? And you don't need to wait & see. Chelsea are the best team in Britain, possibly in Europe (even without the trophy to back it up) & have unlimited cash. United are a shadow of their former glory with money limited. Lyon have no financial need to sell Essien & have indicated that it would take a huge offer to take him from them. Essien himself has asked to move to Chelsea. All of this points to Essien heading for the Bridge. The only thing that would change this was if Mourinho decided he didn't want him.

Rooney is a better player than Gudjohnsen & Drogba and a more natural striker than either as well.

Natural strikers tend to do the majority of their work in the box - Rooney doesn't/

Heinze has been THE defensive signing of the year. Admittedly Fergie has made some mistakes but his transfer record is far superior than what you give him credit for. Remember these names? Eric Cantona, Peter Schmicheal, Gary Pallister, Steve Bruce, Denis Irwin, Paul Ince, Van Nistelrooy etc.? In the transfer market there are not many as shrewd as Ferguson. Today it was reported on Sky that Glazer has pledged 100 million plus to our coffers for the next four seasons, therefore we have a good deal of money to play around with. Not as much as you maybe but definitely enough.

Has he? I would've given that accolade to Cech who has been outstanding. If you want to talk strictly defenders though, then Carvahlo has just as good a claim as Heinze.

18 years & you give me 8 names? Mourinho has made better signings than that.

Mourinho, O'Neill, Allardyce, Redknapp & Wenger are all 'shrewder' in the transfer market.

Even if the widely reported 20M a season story was a bit wrong, 25M is pennies too. How many quality players can you buy with that........2?

I disagree. Miller is a very talented player who, if given a chance, could shine at OT.

Miller is average. He's always looked out of place at United - a bit like Fletcher at times.

That's rubbish. I watched Richardson in the youth cup final against Middlesborough a few years ago and even then he played everyone off the park. He's a very young player and like a certain David Beckham he was loaned out to a lower club to help hone his skills. When he returns to OT I think he could become a big part of the club's plans.

Well, Stevie Fulton was hailed as the Scottish Roberto Baggio due to his talents as a youngster. He went on to fall very short of that tag. So Richardson can perform in all the youth tournaments he wants, but until he starts producing at the top level - like a Giggs, for instance, was doing at that age - then he's still mere potential - & not that much, at that. And so what if Beckham went elsewhere for experience? That doesn't mean shit. I truly hope he becomes part of the plans at United, for that will mean they will have lowered their standards further & make it even easier for Chelsea to reign.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

It will be hard for Ferguson to purchase a keeper as good as Cudicini never mind Cech.

Casilles or Kameni have been reported to be interested in Man Utd Casilles better than Cech, Kameni better than Cudicini.

18 years & you give me 8 names? Mourinho has made better signings than that.

Yeah but he has billions to spend

Schmeichel best keeper ever in the premiership, debatable if he was the best ever.
Schmeichel>>>>Cech

 

[Sebastian]

hey Calcuo and Gav...look:

Munich>>>Chelsea/ManU

 

[Zero Cool]

Nothing more? Have you failed to notice how Madrid's fortunes have changed without him? Makelele is THE best defensive midfielder in the world right now. Fletcher is nothing more than potential.

Makelele is a very good player but Madrid are a force with or without him. Fletcher is both good defensively and going forward. Makelele can do very little but stop-gap the midfield. He'll stop goals but will he create them? Fletcher is definitely on Makelele's level.

Robben is pompous? wtf? He's a natural dribbler, bypassing players like they weren't there. And he's got really quick feet. Liverpool? Wait, you want to use about injuries in the case of Kleberson but just ignore the fact that Robben wasn't fit playing against Liverpool?

It's not just against Liverpool, it's his whole season and even before that. I always thought he was overrated but that match just compounded to me how overrated he is. He was terrible at Euro 2004, when he was hailed as the next footballing god, and has done little to justify himself to me since. He's a good player nothing more.

Possessing full fitness & on form Robben>>>>>>Giggs & Ronaldo.

Simply crap. Duff >>> Giggs >>> Robben.

And no Kleberson isn't better than Makelele. I would say an on-form Makelele but really, when is the man no on-form? And you don't need to wait & see. Chelsea are the best team in Britain, possibly in Europe (even without the trophy to back it up) & have unlimited cash. United are a shadow of their former glory with money limited.

Again your "love" of Chelsea is totally distorting your objectivity. United are not a shadow of their former selves, if anything they're now more equipped than ever to win the big trophies. Chelsea may just about be the best team in Britain at the present but there are many better in Europe. AC Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid are all noticeable examples.

Natural strikers tend to do the majority of their work in the box - Rooney doesn't/

He does more than either Gudjohnsen or Drogba.

Has he? I would've given that accolade to Cech who has been outstanding. If you want to talk strictly defenders though, then Carvahlo has just as good a claim as Heinze.

Heinze has been a better signing than Carvahllo. Heinze is a tactically excellent defender and very good going forward. While Carvallho is good, he's not on Heinze's level.

18 years & you give me 8 names? Mourinho has made better signings than that.

I can reel of 20 if you'd like? The point was, those signing's (excluding van Nistelrooy) were all shrewd bargins and they all turned out to be some of United's best ever players. When you have a few billion on your hands it isn't hard to make good purchases now is it?

Mourinho, O'Neill, Allardyce, Redknapp & Wenger are all 'shrewder' in the transfer market.

No.

Even if the widely reported 20M a season story was a bit wrong, 25M is pennies too. How many quality players can you buy with that........?

Pennies? Hardly. United's squad needs very little strenghtning. A goalkeeper, defender and perhaps a midfielder is all we need to make our squad one of the best in Europe. Therefore it's not a quantity we need to bring in, it's quality. And 25 million can buy at least two quality players I assure you.

Well, Stevie Fulton was hailed as the Scottish Roberto Baggio due to his talents as a youngster. He went on to fall very short of that tag. So Richardson can perform in all the youth tournaments he wants, but until he starts producing at the top level - like a Giggs, for instance, was doing at that age - then he's still mere potential - & not that much, at that. And so what if Beckham went elsewhere for experience? That doesn't mean shit. I truly hope he becomes part of the plans at United, for that will mean they will have lowered their standards further & make it even easier for Chelsea to reign.

This is for the most part conjecture and pertains little to my post. My point is, from all available evidence it looks like Richardson has the talent to become a star at United. Whether he will or not, only time will tell.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Makelele is a very good player but Madrid are a force with or without him. Fletcher is both good defensively and going forward. Makelele can do very little but stop-gap the midfield. He'll stop goals but will he create them? Fletcher is definitely on Makelele's level.

Madrid are a force? Yeah, like they showed this season.

Makelele job is to protect the backline & no-one does this better in the world.

Fletcher doesn't do anything as well as Makelele defends. Look at their respective medal hauls, look at how tactically aware Makelele is, take a look at Chelsea's defensive record: it all adds up to one thing.

On the other hand, there is nothing that indicates Fletcher is a better player.

It's not just against Liverpool, it's his whole season and even before that. I always thought he was overrated but that match just compounded to me how overrated he is. He was terrible at Euro 2004, when he was hailed as the next footballing god, and has done little to justify himself to me since. He's a good player nothing more.

His whole season? Man, EVERYBODY was talking about Robben. How he was ripping defences apart, how explosive & exciting his style was. He was good at Euro 2004 & was amazing this season before his injury. I don't think anyone - bar yourself - would say anything to the contrary.

Simply crap. Duff >>> Giggs >>> Robben.

Simply crap.

Again your "love" of Chelsea is totally distorting your objectivity. United are not a shadow of their former selves, if anything they're now more equipped than ever to win the big trophies. Chelsea may just about be the best team in Britain at the present but there are many better in Europe. AC Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid are all noticeable examples.

If United are more equipped than ever, why have they finished empty-handed? Shit for a good while at the start of the season, not very good in Europe........yeah, they're better than the Treble season.

AC have a claim - but they're over the hill. Juve?? Don't think so. Madrid? Already looked at that one. Barca are a better team & Chelsea made light work of them.

He does more than either Gudjohnsen or Drogba

Not inside the box.

Heinze has been a better signing than Carvahllo. Heinze is a tactically excellent defender and very good going forward. While Carvallho is good, he's not on Heinze's level.

How so? Both have been top performers, but Carvhalo has helped Chelsea secure the title & the Carling Cup, Heinze has brought United what.......? And Carvahlo is one of the best in the world - as is Heinze - in his position, they are on the same level.........only Carvahlo performances have produced a final product.

I can reel of 20 if you'd like? The point was, those signing's (excluding van Nistelrooy) were all shrewd bargins and they all turned out to be some of United's best ever players. When you have a few billion on your hands it isn't hard to make good purchases now is it?

Yeah, because Mourinho had billions at Porto.

No.

Yes.

Pennies? Hardly. United's squad needs very little strenghtning. A goalkeeper, defender and perhaps a midfielder is all we need to make our squad one of the best in Europe. Therefore it's not a quantity we need to bring in, it's quality. And 25 million can buy at least two quality players I assure you.

Yep, 2 players. You say you need 3. 3-2=1. Looks like you're a man short. Unlucky.

This is for the most part conjecture and pertains little to my post. My point is, from all available evidence it looks like Richardson has the talent to become a star at United. Whether he will or not, only time will tell.

So if 'only time will tell', don't use him in your argument.

 

[Zero Cool]

Madrid are a force? Yeah, like they showed this season.

Second in La Liga and unlucky to be knocked out by Juve, hardly a sign of a spent force. Wait Chelsea can't really be a top team becuase they didn't even make the final of the CL and were outclassed by an ostensibly lesser team, right?

Makelele job is to protect the backline & no-one does this better in the world.

Fletcher doesn't do anything as well as Makelele defends. Look at their respective medal hauls, look at how tactically aware Makelele is, take a look at Chelsea's defensive record: it all adds up to one thing.

Makalele has being playing top flight football for how many seasons? Fletcher is a better attacker, as tactically aware and while Makalele may be a better defender he is on Makelele's level as an all-round midfielder.

His whole season? Man, EVERYBODY was talking about Robben. How he was ripping defences apart, how explosive & exciting his style was. He was good at Euro 2004 & was amazing this season before his injury. I don't think anyone - bar yourself - would say anything to the contrary.

Unless you're blind you had to have noticed Robben's performance at Euro 2004. It was atrocious. He lacked penetration and showed little in the way of his apparent "promise". This season he's been good but hardly unbelievable. Chelsea are a more vibrant team with Duff on the left. He possesses better all round ability and negotiates defences better than Robben.

How so? Both have been top performers, but Carvhalo has helped Chelsea secure the title & the Carling Cup, Heinze has brought United what.......? And Carvahlo is one of the best in the world - as is Heinze - in his position, they are on the same level.........only Carvahlo performances have produced a final product.

How can you attribute winning trophies to individual players ability? That's akin to saying Ole Gunnar Solskjear is better than Alan Shearer because he had more success with his team. Heinze is more technically gifted defender than Carvahllo and a much better attacker. Therefore he's the better player.

Yeah, because Mourinho had billions at Porto.

And up to the mid-90's Ferguson had billions too? Excluding van Nistelrooy all of the signing's I mentioned were during or before the first Premership season and all were for pittance. I can list more if you'd like?

Yep, 2 players. You say you need 3. 3-2=1. Looks like you're a man short. Unlucky.

I said perhaps 3. Two should be enough and even if it's not we have 100 million plus who says we can't spend more than 25 million this summer?

So if 'only time will tell', don't use him in your argument.

Again your ignoring my point. Richardson has the talent to make it into the first team, whether he will or not no-one knows yet. Just like no-one knows if Mourinho will be knocked over by a bus tomorrow morning.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Lol didnt Barca out play Chelsea in both legs? Chelsea went through why? coz they held back the keeper when Terry scored..yeah light work..

Madrid finished 2nd to Barcalona, not a bad season.

Heinze>>>Carvalho

 

[Illuminattile]

My two cents:

Between the sticks:
Chelsea by a country mile. Howard did well last season, and he's young (for a keeper) but both Cech or Cudicini would get in the United starting 11 ahead of him.

Defence:
Rio and Terry are both World Class centrebacks, though Terry can actually score goals. Heinze is a better left back than Bridge. I don't particularly rate Huth or Johnson (right now, anyway). Chelsea might scrape it because:
a) Silvestre has had a mare this season
b) They have more depth
But in terms of a back four with everyone on form, I don't see either team having a considerable advantage.

Midfield
I'd rate prime-of-his-life-Roy Keane above Makelele, and his performance against Arsenal yesterday was outstanding. However, Makelele is a top-notch DM and has been more consistent this season than Keano. I rate Lampard above Scholes. Wingers are about even, though Ronaldo's not as consistent and Giggs is fading. Chelsea also have Cole who's a better winger than anyone else we can play out wide, other than Rooney (i.e. Fletcher, Fortune). Chelsea also have the depth in midfield, though Fletch, Fortune and Richardson look promising (and they're > Jaroshit). Again Chelsea would shade it based on depth. On the pitch, with everyone on form, there's little to choose between them.

Up front:
No contest here. Both Rooney and a fit, on-form RVN are leagues ahead of the strikers Chelsea have. Even Alan Smith at the start of the season did better than the Chelsea strikeforce has this season, with the exception of a couple of good spells for Drogba and Gudjohnsen. Rooney might not be an out-and-out striker but when played up front he's still better than any of the Chelsea 4. Bear in mind United also have Solskjaer, if he recovers, who despite his age is still capable of bagging much-needed goals.

Chelsea's advantage over United lies primarily in depth, something Abramovich's money is particularly responsible for. Chelsea have players outside of the starting eleven with experience, whereas United don't really have players capable of coming into the team and doing a good job, or of pushing for a starting place. I think Fletcher, Fortune and Richardson have shown promise, and the likes of Rossi, Pique and Spector could be given a chance to shine next season, but they're all inexperienced and relatively untested. With a top-notch keeper, Essien in midfield and maybe another centre back and/or right back and United will be looking very strong indeed. Unfortunately, £20m might not be enough for these players.

 

[retro8]

How The Hell Did RVN Miss that goal? Even Milan Baros would have scored that and thats sayin sumthing!!!

 

[Taliq]

My two cents:

Between the sticks:
Chelsea by a country mile. Howard did well last season, and he's young (for a keeper) but both Cech or Cudicini would get in the United starting 11 ahead of him.

Defence:
Rio and Terry are both World Class centrebacks, though Terry can actually score goals. Heinze is a better left back than Bridge. I don't particularly rate Huth or Johnson (right now, anyway). Chelsea might scrape it because:
a) Silvestre has had a mare this season
b) They have more depth
But in terms of a back four with everyone on form, I don't see either team having a considerable advantage.

Midfield
I'd rate prime-of-his-life-Roy Keane above Makelele, and his performance against Arsenal yesterday was outstanding. However, Makelele is a top-notch DM and has been more consistent this season than Keano. I rate Lampard above Scholes. Wingers are about even, though Ronaldo's not as consistent and Giggs is fading. Chelsea also have Cole who's a better winger than anyone else we can play out wide, other than Rooney (i.e. Fletcher, Fortune). Chelsea also have the depth in midfield, though Fletch, Fortune and Richardson look promising (and they're > Jaroshit). Again Chelsea would shade it based on depth. On the pitch, with everyone on form, there's little to choose between them.

Up front:
No contest here. Both Rooney and a fit, on-form RVN are leagues ahead of the strikers Chelsea have. Even Alan Smith at the start of the season did better than the Chelsea strikeforce has this season, with the exception of a couple of good spells for Drogba and Gudjohnsen. Rooney might not be an out-and-out striker but when played up front he's still better than any of the Chelsea 4. Bear in mind United also have Solskjaer, if he recovers, who despite his age is still capable of bagging much-needed goals.

Chelsea's advantage over United lies primarily in depth, something Abramovich's money is particularly responsible for. Chelsea have players outside of the starting eleven with experience, whereas United don't really have players capable of coming into the team and doing a good job, or of pushing for a starting place. I think Fletcher, Fortune and Richardson have shown promise, and the likes of Rossi, Pique and Spector could be given a chance to shine next season, but they're all inexperienced and relatively untested. With a top-notch keeper, Essien in midfield and maybe another centre back and/or right back and United will be looking very strong indeed. Unfortunately, £20m might not be enough for these players.

:thumb: preach it brotha *waves hands in the air*

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Second in La Liga and unlucky to be knocked out by Juve, hardly a sign of a spent force. Wait Chelsea can't really be a top team becuase they didn't even make the final of the CL and were outclassed by an ostensibly lesser team, right?

Madrid are fading.......& Chelsea were far from outclassed. Liverpool were tactically sound, under pressure & feared venturing forward at times - hardly outclassed.

Makalele has being playing top flight football for how many seasons? Fletcher is a better attacker, as tactically aware and while Makalele may be a better defender he is on Makelele's level as an all-round midfielder.

Exactly, Makelele has been at the top for years. And Fletcher might be a better attacking player but to try & make out he is as tactically
aware as Makelele is a farce!! Makelele is more defensively aware &, in turn, more offensively aware than Fletcher.

Unless you're blind you had to have noticed Robben's performance at Euro 2004. It was atrocious. He lacked penetration and showed little in the way of his apparent "promise". This season he's been good but hardly unbelievable. Chelsea are a more vibrant team with Duff on the left. He possesses better all round ability and negotiates defences better than Robben.

I happen to remember watching Robben skip by a few players now & again at Euro 2004.

Hardly unbelievable? I think you need to watch some videotapes of his performances when he was fit.

Negotiates defences?? You're right, Robben doesn't 'negotiate defences', he just runs past them - simple.

How can you attribute winning trophies to individual players ability? That's akin to saying Ole Gunnar Solskjear is better than Alan Shearer because he had more success with his team. Heinze is more technically gifted defender than Carvahllo and a much better attacker. Therefore he's the better player.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that you had exclusively rights to half-assed staements. Like when you excused Kleberson because he's 'injured' but hounding Robben ignoring that he was blatantly carried an injury, something which you - a hater - could not have missed when it was plastered all over the news. Anyhoo, incase you missed it, performances have an influence on trophy hauls. Therefore if Chelsea win trophies in part because Carvahlo is playing to such a high level, then there is a link to his ability, no? And so what if Heinze is a better attacker than Carvahlo, my man isn't paid to attack. 'Technically gifted'? I'd like you to elaborate. Do you mean he has a better touch, he's a better passer, what? Either way, reading the game, being pacy, being formiddable in the air & making inch perfect tackles is a nice little arsenal that Carvahlo carries.

And up to the mid-90's Ferguson had billions too? Excluding van Nistelrooy all of the signing's I mentioned were during or before the first Premership season and all were for pittance. I can list more if you'd like?

Now, now, don't get away from the matter at hand. Never did I state Ferguson had billions. YOU made out as if Mourinho couldn't be a more shrewd manager than Ferguson in the transfer market because he has 'billions' (not really though, eh? ) to spend at Chelsea, totally overlooking the terrific business Mourinho did at Porto. So I highlighted this error & in return you either, 1. Noticed your error & attempted to cover it up, or, 2. Took your eye off the ball & thought I was attacking Ferguson.

I said perhaps 3. Two should be enough and even if it's not we have 100 million plus who says we can't spend more than 25 million this summer?

Who says? Umm, every report coming out of Old Trafford.

Again your ignoring my point. Richardson has the talent to make it into the first team, whether he will or not no-one knows yet. Just like no-one knows if Mourinho will be knocked over by a bus tomorrow morning.

Don't make points 'perhaps' & shit. Yeah, there is a chance that Richardson will become a good player while there isn't a great chance of Mourinho getting hit by bus tomorrow. But if you want to play that game, Chelsea can realistically sign 95% of the players on the planet & as such, they are all in our team. Including some of your best players - I win!!

Now that isn't nice is it?

Lol didnt Barca out play Chelsea in both legs? Chelsea went through why? coz they held back the keeper when Terry scored..yeah light work..

Madrid finished 2nd to Barcalona, not a bad season.

Heinze>>>Carvalho

No, Chelsea went through because for spells in the game we made Barcelona look like a pub team.

Not a bad season, but Madrid are fading.

Opinion. Just out of curiosity, are you guys trying to make out Heinze is a better centre-half?

Midfield
I'd rate prime-of-his-life-Roy Keane above Makelele, and his performance against Arsenal yesterday was outstanding. However, Makelele is a top-notch DM and has been more consistent this season than Keano. I rate Lampard above Scholes. Wingers are about even, though Ronaldo's not as consistent and Giggs is fading. Chelsea also have Cole who's a better winger than anyone else we can play out wide, other than Rooney (i.e. Fletcher, Fortune). Chelsea also have the depth in midfield, though Fletch, Fortune and Richardson look promising (and they're > Jaroshit). Again Chelsea would shade it based on depth. On the pitch, with everyone on form, there's little to choose between them.

So Makelele> Keane, Lampard>Scholes, Cole> Giggs & Ronaldo &, somehow, we manage to 'shade it'?

I mean, that is best against best & then you admit we hump you in terms of depth yet we just shade it? The worst thing is, this was the most pro-Chelsea post made here...........& Giggs is really fading.

Btw, Essien doesn't want to go to United & you guys can't afford him.......unless you used your whole season's budget - but then you wouldn't have any cash to give him a fat signing on fee.

 

[Taliq]

So Makelele> Keane, Lampard>Scholes, Cole> Giggs & Ronaldo &, somehow, we manage to 'shade it'?

I mean, that is best against best & then you admit we hump you in terms of depth yet we just shade it? The worst thing is, this was the most pro-Chelsea post made here...........& Giggs is really fading.

Btw, Essien doesn't want to go to United & you guys can't afford him.......unless you used your whole season's budget - but then you wouldn't have any cash to give him a fat signing on fee.

He didnt say that, think u read it wrong

 

[Illuminattile]

So Makelele> Keane, Lampard>Scholes, Cole> Giggs & Ronaldo &, somehow, we manage to 'shade it'?

No, what I said (or at least what I meant) was Cole > Fletch/Fortune. I like Joe Cole, and he's done well this season, but an on-form Giggs/Ronaldo > him. And if you put Wayne Rooney out wide, he > *.
Also, I didn't say Makelele was better than Keane. Keane played better against Arsenal on Saturday than Makelele has this season. Keane, on form > Makelele.

I mean, that is best against best & then you admit we hump you in terms of depth yet we just shade it?
Look at the starting eleven for United and the starting eleven for Chelsea

Cech > Howard/Carroll
Ferreira > Neville
Terry = Ferdinand
Gallas > Silvestre
Bridge < Heinze
Duff < Ronaldo
Makelele = Keane
Lampard > Scholes
Robben < Rooney
Gudjohnsen < RVN

Chelsea: 4
United: 4
Even: 2

Assuming players are fit and on reasonable form, those teams are pretty evenly matched.

Giggs is really fading.

Giggs still had, arguably, a better season than Duff. He scored more Premiership goals in fewer appearances. That being said, he will need to be replaced soon.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

No, what I said (or at least what I meant) was Cole > Fletch/Fortune. I like Joe Cole, and he's done well this season, but an on-form Giggs/Ronaldo > him. And if you put Wayne Rooney out wide, he > *.
Also, I didn't say Makelele was better than Keane. Keane played better against Arsenal on Saturday than Makelele has this season. Keane, on form > Makelele.

Keane may be better than Makelele but shit, if he isn't on top form - often the case, although he still performs well - Makelele takes him.

Look at the starting eleven for United and the starting eleven for Chelsea

Cech > Howard/Carroll
Ferreira > Neville
Terry = Ferdinand
Gallas > Silvestre
Bridge < Heinze
Duff < Ronaldo
Makelele = Keane
Lampard > Scholes
Robben < Rooney
Gudjohnsen < RVN

Chelsea: 4
United: 4
Even: 2

Assuming players are fit and on reasonable form, those teams are pretty evenly matched.


Giggs still had, arguably, a better season than Duff. He scored more Premiership goals in fewer appearances. That being said, he will need to be replaced soon.

Well, I was still only talking about the midfield lol.

Anyhho, Carvahlo plays ahead of Gallas - not that it matters, Ricardo is better than Silvestre.

Duff is better than Ronaldo, imo.

 

[~live2tell~]

I wanted Arsenal to win but Man Utd deserved to win - they played better.

 

[k69atie]

I was gutted, we played so much better than Arsenal!

 

[Zero Cool]

Madrid are fading.......& Chelsea were far from outclassed. Liverpool were tactically sound, under pressure & feared venturing forward at times - hardly outclassed.

Liverpool played better, had a much sounder defensive game and were overall the superior team. Perhaps outclassed was a little strong but you know the essence of my point. You said Madrid aren't a force anymore just because they didn't win the big trophies, when I point out neither did Chelsea (excluding the Premiership) you immediately jump on the defensive. Look at it objectively and you might end up agreeing with me.

Exactly, Makelele has been at the top for years. And Fletcher might be a better attacking player

Makelele is more defensively aware &, in turn, more offensively aware than Fletcher.

OK......

I happen to remember watching Robben skip by a few players now & again at Euro 2004.

Hardly unbelievable? I think you need to watch some videotapes of his performances when he was fit.

Negotiates defences?? You're right, Robben doesn't 'negotiate defences', he just runs past them - simple.

Robben's a good player when did I ever state he wasn't? However for the hype he's given, he highly overrated in my book. I consider both Duff and Giggs better players. Maybe I'm just innately stupid but that's the way I see it.

Now, now, don't get away from the matter at hand. Never did I state Ferguson had billions. YOU made out as if Mourinho couldn't be a more shrewd manager than Ferguson in the transfer market because he has 'billions' (not really though, eh? ) to spend at Chelsea, totally overlooking the terrific business Mourinho did at Porto. So I highlighted this error & in return you either, 1. Noticed your error & attempted to cover it up, or, 2. Took your eye off the ball & thought I was attacking Ferguson.

I never said Mourinho wasn't a shrewd manager I was simply attempting to rebut your ludicrous agrument that Fergie wasn't. His track record over 18 years prove the exact opposite. He was an extremely shrewd manager at Aberdeen and his record at United proves the same. Again I can list 20 people who were bargin basement buys and turned out to be great players at OT but you'd just ignore it. You're simply taking my points and spinning them to what you want me to say rather than what I really am.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that you had exclusively rights to half-assed staements. Like when you excused Kleberson because he's 'injured' but hounding Robben ignoring that he was blatantly carried an injury, something which you - a hater - could not have missed when it was plastered all over the news. Anyhoo, incase you missed it, performances have an influence on trophy hauls. Therefore if Chelsea win trophies in part because Carvahlo is playing to such a high level, then there is a link to his ability, no? And so what if Heinze is a better attacker than Carvahlo, my man isn't paid to attack. 'Technically gifted'? I'd like you to elaborate. Do you mean he has a better touch, he's a better passer, what? Either way, reading the game, being pacy, being formiddable in the air & making inch perfect tackles is a nice little arsenal that Carvahlo carries.

A call for calm is need here. Calcuo you're a smart guy but you're getting way too hot under the collar for me to debate you properly. I accept the validity of your viewpoint but you must accept that I simply have differing views. I'm not a hater on Robben far from it. I simply believe him to be overrated. His performances before and after Euro 2004 have done nothing too change that. It's not that I'm ignoring he was injured against Liverpool, I accept he was, however that match compunded my dislike of him as a player. I base my opinion on over a season's work not one match. Let's go back to my original point, United are as good a team or argubaly better than Chelsea, am I not correct? Anyway this topic no longer interests me anymore, happy arguing

 

[Illuminattile]

Anyhho, Carvahlo plays ahead of Gallas - not that it matters, Ricardo is better than Silvestre.

I remember one Chelsea fan on the radio talking about how the Terry/Gallas partnership had only conceded 1 goal over quite a few games. Regardless, Gallas and Carvalho are better than Silvestre. I'd much prefer to see Wesley play alongside Rio.

I'm not a big fan of Damien Duff. On a good day (and Saturday was a very good day) Ronaldo plays absolutely magnificently. A tad more consistently and some more goals and he'd be incredible. Assuming we can hold on to him, I don't know if he'd be able to resist the lure of Real Madrid.