$2 Billion Industry

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

People need to forget about true Hip Hop. (Edit: well, not forget, but concentrate less on)

That shit was people running around doing graffiti & freestyling & shit.

That doesn't happen in the same manner anymore, if at all.

People are trying to cling onto the past, but times have changed & Hip Hop(in all it's forms) has changed with the times.

 

[Pittsey]

Sugar Hill was business...I thought Sugar Hill opened mad doors for people. I think Sugar Hill was even signed to a huge label but it went bankrupt I don't know I read something about it tho. Perhaps that is truer hip-hop than what it is now because it was new and not played out like it is today but it is still business. so what Im saying is before it was business now it is big business.

Don't really matter if it is truer hip hop because we can't change it and that means the good will be ignored but that probably happened back then too.

People need to forget about true Hip Hop. (Edit: well, not forget, but concentrate less on)

That shit was people running around doing graffiti & freestyling & shit.

That doesn't happen in the same manner anymore, if at all.

People are trying to cling onto the past, but times have changed & Hip Hop(in all it's forms) has changed with the times.

Agree with you both. I still love the rap music of today, if I didn't I wouldn't bother. And I don't believe hip-hop is dying. Just changing, like Calcuo said.
When I say "pure", I think what I meant was - doing it for the enjoyment of it, because you're a fan. Not because you want to make money. Money is good, but how much do you need? Can't you make a mil or two and invest it and live happy? Why do you need 50 million a year?
Hip-hop should be more political, more to spread info, more of a community thing. I love money, but it isn't the main drive in my life.

 

[one mc on dj]

People need to forget about true hip-hop.

That shit was people running around doing graffiti & freestyling & shit.

That doesn't happen in the same manner anymore, if at all.

People are trying to cling onto the past, but times have changed & Hip Hop(in all it's forms) has changed with the times.

That is what I am saying although I do want people to remember that time and it would be nice to see the other elements hm...evolve too...Im saying take the graffiti element to a bigger level of art. Get that in a museum and say it's hip hop.

Breaking what about that? You know there are still people all over the world that want to learn how to breakdance? DId you know there's still battles? A couple of years ago there was a theater show filled with this shit they were representing hip hop in their show perhaps there should be more...

So you get what I am saying? We want those other elements to get more attention but it seems those arent evolving as fast as the mc part did...they probably never will and that is when I say ok just accept the fact that it never will and visit those small events/shows.

 

[Pittsey]

That is what I am saying although I do want people to remember that time and it would be nice to see the other elements hm...evolve too...Im saying take the graffiti element to a bigger level of art. Get that in a museum and say it's hip hop.

Breaking what about that? You know there are still people all over the world that want to learn how to breakdance? DId you know there's still battles? A couple of years ago there was a theater show filled with this shit they were representing hip hop in their show perhaps there should be more...

So you get what I am saying? We want those other elements to get more attention but it seems those arent evolving as fast as the mc part did...they probably never will and that is when I say ok just accept the fact that it never will and visit those small events/shows.

There's a competition on UK TV. Hosted by LL Cool J. Breaking and Graffiti is good stuff. But why is rap music moving faster, more popular? Rapping gets you paid, breaking and tagging doesn't.

 

[Silleone]

Shit hip hop is run by the big people, dr dre doesnt do shit in aftermath but make money for the boss, seriously do u think jimmy iovine cares about struggle and real problems, why the fuck would he, hes rich, if dre was to say to jimmy "i want 50 to rap about peace" etc etc, jimmy iovine would laugh at him and throw a cd a his nuts, its all about money.

Ice Cube would have had a good record lable if he made one around the time NWA broke up becuz the man is/was serious about his music, shit back in the day he didnt give a fuck about what companies said.

Nearly everyone has a price, some people dont have a choice.

if u were broke, selling drugs, living a bad life and some guy said "if u rap about all the bad things youve dont and only that, exagerate it, i will give u million dollars"

shit 8/10 people would do it, the other 2 probly have stong character.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

That is what I am saying although I do want people to remember that time and it would be nice to see the other elements hm...evolve too...Im saying take the graffiti element to a bigger level of art. Get that in a museum and say it's hip hop.

Breaking what about that? You know there are still people all over the world that want to learn how to breakdance? DId you know there's still battles? A couple of years ago there was a theater show filled with this shit they were representing hip hop in their show perhaps there should be more...

So you get what I am saying? We want those other elements to get more attention but it seems those arent evolving as fast as the mc part did...they probably never will and that is when I say ok just accept the fact that it never will and visit those small events/shows.

Street artists are commisioned to do graffiti these days & some of it will be shown in exhibitions. While these guys might not say 'look, this is Hip Hop', they have been hugely influenced by the style, sound & look.

And breakdancing had it's day. Not to sound like an old conservative, but I can't see it making a mainstream comeback. The only reason it made a mainstream breakthrough in the first place was because a lot of kids & young adults were doing it & it became trendy & sure enough, everyone tried their hand at it. I don't see many doing it nowadays. At breakdancing competitions obviously, but you will not see a kid doing it in the park or some dude doing it at a club - those types of breaks are no longer used by DJs anyways.


Edit: And what you're saying about greed Pittsey is righteous but not pratical. No matter what job you have, if you can make more money by doing the same monotonous task you will do it. Especially if the alternative is taking a risk which at best will reach the levels your old method reached & at worse will leave your career - & future finance generating power - in the dirt.

 

[one mc on dj]

Agree with you both. I still love the rap music of today, if I didn't I wouldn't bother. And I don't believe hip-hop is dying. Just changing, like Calcuo said.
When I say "pure", I think what I meant was - doing it for the enjoyment of it, because you're a fan. Not because you want to make money. Money is good, but how much do you need? Can't you make a mil or two and invest it and live happy? Why do you need 50 million a year?
Hip-hop should be more political, more to spread info, more of a community thing. I love money, but it isn't the main drive in my life.

Yeah the money thing annoys me too..but how many rappers make 50 million a year? Interscope rappers maybe that's the first label everyone thinks about..but does Interscope make hip hop? Yes they do only they promote their hip hop in a bigger way they invest a lot of money in it and get a lot of money out of it. That is business I guess. The best thing is that they don't even make good music the worst thing on the other hand is that a lot of people don't realise that because if you think about it how many eminem fans have bought Encore because they really thought it was good? I don't wanna say none but I dare to say the majority bought it because it was Eminem.
But now im off topic forget what I said....about eminem and shit...My point is big labels have money invest a lot of money and get a lot of money back. If the people wanted art and not just some music they would have bought some other music but than again the people in general are stupid anyway that is why we made up a thing called conspiracy theories

 

[Silleone]

In 20 years your gonna turn your tv on to a rap channel and think "What the fuck are my kids listening to, thats not even music", a wack fasion, a wack rapper, a wack song, rap will never be "pure" becuz theres money to be made from it, if i was a millionair i would get into the business side of rap and try to change things, but nobody has good intentions no more, in years to come, mainstream rap will be worse than how it was, it will be like a fucking commericial, shoes, clothes cars, food, money in the space of 4 minutes.

 

[one mc on dj]

Street artists are commisioned to do graffiti these days & some of it will be shown in exhibitions. While these guys might not say 'look, this is Hip Hop', they have been hugely influenced by the style, sound & look.

And breakdancing had it's day. Not to sound like an old conservative, but I can't see it making a mainstream comeback. The only reason it made a mainstream breakthrough in the first place was because a lot of kids & young adults were doing it & it became trendy & sure enough, everyone tried their hand at it. I don't see many doing it nowadays. At breakdancing competitions obviously, but you will not see a kid doing it in the park or some dude doing it at a club - those types of breaks are no longer used by DJs anyways.

I know breakdancing had it's day but because it will never become a club thing anymore but maybe it has become just dancing or whatever they call it now lol they probably labeled it urban dancing . If so it has evolved already

 

[Pittsey]

I know breakdancing had it's day but because it will never become a club thing anymore but maybe it has become just dancing or whatever they call it now lol they probably labeled it urban dancing . If so it has evolved already

It's called Street Dance.

My ex-girlfriend is a dancer. She studies all sorts. But street dance is the one she does for music videos and stuff. That's the urban dance of today. Although Breaking is a part of it.

 

[2Pax]

Hip hop has changed, nowadays the success of a track depends mostly on the quality of the production on that track and not the lyrical content, and well established artist's such as 50 Cent can most definitely count on his next single/album selling well with huge investments in marketing and advertising. Using 50 Cent as an example, can we blame greed for the change of hip hop? I mean in perspective, 50 Cent earned enough money from signing with Aftermath and album sales that he easily has enough money to see him by until the day he dies. So why establish a sneaker / clothing production company, I mean they will help slightly advertise the artist and increase his sales, but only fractionally when compared to his current sales. It's moves like this that have increased Hip Hop's overall sales. I'm not saying what 50 Cent has done is right or wrong, but who can blame him, if the oppurtunity falls why shouldn't he take it? He most likely became a rapper to make money, surely a clothing company is just another branch on the 'money making' tree.

 

[one mc on dj]

It's called Street Dance.

My ex-girlfriend is a dancer. She studies all sorts. But street dance is the one she does for music videos and stuff. That's the urban dance of today. Although Breaking is a part of it.

Yeah very creative name don't you think? hehe...

Newayz to reply on 2pax post...

You are right the people don't listen to the lyrical content any more sometimes it works tho...PPl don't wanna hear it if it doesn't have a good beat. That is a bit sad in our eyes but can we blame those people for not caring? It's just a matter of taste ne way that is not only with hip-hop but with all music. Some like the beats some like the lyrics now it is about the beats tomorrow it may be about the lyrics I don't think it will be like this 4ever.

 

[S O F I]

When black people were the only ones prepared to put money into hip-hop and it was black owned labels who were the major players, hip-hop was pure.

So, the Black people who were as broke as it gets, put money into hip-hop because they loved doing it? Not anywhere in the back of their mind, did they think about the fact that they need to support their babies and their babymothers? Nowhere in their mind did they see their American dream coming true through hip-hop music? Come on now.

Hip-hop now is the name of the music, not the name of the culture. It is music about guns and "bling".

First off, is there one city in America, even in Bosnia, for Christ's sake, that you won't see graffiti all over the place? Grafitti, an element of hip-hop culture, is much alive now as it was before. Only difference is, police has units focusing on that "vandalism". Go to any club and you'll see a DJ, another element of hip-hop. Look on the dance floor, 90% of time, you'll see a dude breakdancing or something similar to it. Breakdancing, another element of hip-hop. The culture is very much alive.

Kanye West - Jesus Walks
Eminem - Mockingbird

Two tracks killing the charts last year and this year. None of them focus on guns or bling.

There is also a template that everyone follows, there's no diversity or originality. All that matters is record sales and that suffocates creativity.

Record sales always mattered. Only difference is, up-coming rappers did not know the so-called "formula" and therefore did what they thought would sell. Nevertheless, if hip-hop is just about record sales and unoriginality right now, why is there not every single rapper in the world making the same type of music as say, 50 Cent and...Fabolous.

Edan - The beauty and the beat
Blueprint - 1988

Check out those two albums and see whether there is diversity and originality, or not. Btw, props to roaches for bringing them up.

And with the money coming from white teens, the white teens are targeted. They fantasise about the glory behind gangs, guns and money. Hence 50 Cents popularity.

That's actually more of a myth than a fact. There is no proof, other than every other person repeating it so many times, that everybody believes it. It's worse than propaganda. There is more white people in the United States and across the world than Black people. It's a fact everybody needs to grasp. Now, if you took the whole Black population in the United States and figured out how many Black people in it buy today's mainstream records, and took the whole White population and figured out how many white teens buy today's mainstream records, I GUARANTEE you, the percentage of Blacks would be greater. I'm telling you, no matter how stupid it sounds, Black people love 50's music and buy it. You cannot blame white teens for today's music. I'm sorry.

All in all, people need to realize that there isn't real proof that hip-hop was created to be conscious and to have positive messages. Hip-hop is party music, and rappers love bling-bling and money now just as much now, as before, Rakim is an example, as roaches once provided it in a thread. Hip-hop was party music, and now it's much better than before, becase there's SO many different types of it. People talk about how much they hate mainstream music and everything, and just listen to underground, yet, they always mention mainstream music first when it comes to talking about hip-hop. What kinda shit is that? There is a lot of good music out there, but due to the fact that rap is so worldwide and so many albums are coming out, it takes a little more time to find what you like and appreciate. Just the way politics and government works, if you have a problem with it, get your voice out, get involved. Otherwise, there won't be a change.

 

[S O F I]

And the majority of rap music is about bragging. It seems very few people are rapping about anything else. Obviously this isn't exclusive, but most are 1 dimensional thug wannabes.

Hip-hop was always bragging. Old School rappers and the rappers soon that followed, FILLED their songs with bragging. It was cool, still is. It's what makes hip-hop unique.

I disagree. Who is putting out original music in the mainstream? I can think of maybe 3 people, but that is it. That's a small amount in a $2 billion industry. And there is a template, everyone wants to release a pop record, a club record and a "deep" record. All albums are put together the same. Usually with the "deep" record as the last track. No-one wants to break the mould, step apart from the norm. Aftermath are the main offenders. All their albums are the same.

Again, if you try not to think about mainstream as the only source of rap music, you'll be much happier.

No I believe it is truth. Spend a day in a record shop, stand by the Urban section. Check how many Urban Youths buy the stuff. The money is with white teens.

You forgot people that like to buy records online. Besides, see my post above regarding this.

 

[Frank Grimes]

i was gonna try to add an intellegent point of view to this thread but it totaly left my mind. so ill just up it instead

 

[Pittsey]

So, the Black people who were as broke as it gets, put money into hip-hop because they loved doing it? Not anywhere in the back of their mind, did they think about the fact that they need to support their babies and their babymothers? Nowhere in their mind did they see their American dream coming true through hip-hop music? Come on now.

Yeah. Most people were playing dozens, Djing, tagging, and breaking because they liked to. Not because they though there was money in it. People still do now. When Hip-hop started, it started on the street, in the park at the crib. It wasn't a multi-million dollar industry.

First off, is there one city in America, even in Bosnia, for Christ's sake, that you won't see graffiti all over the place? Grafitti, an element of hip-hop culture, is much alive now as it was before. Only difference is, police has units focusing on that "vandalism". Go to any club and you'll see a DJ, another element of hip-hop. Look on the dance floor, 90% of time, you'll see a dude breakdancing or something similar to it. Breakdancing, another element of hip-hop. The culture is very much alive.

Agreed. You see tagging still. But it's not considered by many to be part of hip-hop. Start a thread on this board asking what hip-hop is. Most people will define it as a genre of music.

Kanye West - Jesus Walks
Eminem - Mockingbird

Two tracks killing the charts last year and this year. None of them focus on guns or bling.

You've named 2. Out of how many tracks released last year?
I can name about 5 mainstream rappers who don't chat about guns and gangs. Not many is it?

Record sales always mattered. Only difference is, up-coming rappers did not know the so-called "formula" and therefore did what they thought would sell. Nevertheless, if hip-hop is just about record sales and unoriginality right now, why is there not every single rapper in the world making the same type of music as say, 50 Cent and...Fabolous.

Edan - The beauty and the beat
Blueprint - 1988

Check out those two albums and see whether there is diversity and originality, or not. Btw, props to roaches for bringing them up.

Dunno what to say. But check fabolous' last 3 records. Sound pretty samey to 50 cent to me.

That's actually more of a myth than a fact. There is no proof, other than every other person repeating it so many times, that everybody believes it. It's worse than propaganda. There is more white people in the United States and across the world than Black people. It's a fact everybody needs to grasp. Now, if you took the whole Black population in the United States and figured out how many Black people in it buy today's mainstream records, and took the whole White population and figured out how many white teens buy today's mainstream records, I GUARANTEE you, the percentage of Blacks would be greater. I'm telling you, no matter how stupid it sounds, Black people love 50's music and buy it. You cannot blame white teens for today's music. I'm sorry.

I've been to the concerts. I've seen the percentage of white and black faces. Trust me, it's not propaganda.
Plus I'm not blaming white teens, I'm blaming money hungry labels and rappers.

All in all, people need to realize that there isn't real proof that hip-hop was created to be conscious and to have positive messages. Hip-hop is party music, and rappers love bling-bling and money now just as much now, as before, Rakim is an example, as roaches once provided it in a thread. Hip-hop was party music, and now it's much better than before, becase there's SO many different types of it. People talk about how much they hate mainstream music and everything, and just listen to underground, yet, they always mention mainstream music first when it comes to talking about hip-hop. What kinda shit is that? There is a lot of good music out there, but due to the fact that rap is so worldwide and so many albums are coming out, it takes a little more time to find what you like and appreciate. Just the way politics and government works, if you have a problem with it, get your voice out, get involved. Otherwise, there won't be a change.

I'm not saying rap music is crap. I'm still a fan. And like I said I don't believe it is dying. All I'm saying is there is more to hip-hop than money, which people seem to forget. Hip-hop is classified as gang music, yet most gang members still listen to James brown, Marvin Gaye, etc.
I like Mainstream music too. Who wants to listen to conscious rap in a club or at a party. I own all 50 Cents cd's. All I'm saying is I'd appreciate more originality. XXL's review of Massacre had it right, there was more there underneath, the potential showed through, but 50 wasn't prepared to risk his empire and his money.

 

[Pittsey]

Hip-hop was always bragging. Old School rappers and the rappers soon that followed, FILLED their songs with bragging. It was cool, still is. It's what makes hip-hop unique.

I understand that. But now it's just bullshit. I prefer to hear truth.

Again, if you try not to think about mainstream as the only source of rap music, you'll be much happier.

I know that. But it's the mainstream which is the $2 billion industry. So it's that which I'm addressing.

You forgot people that like to buy records online. Besides, see my post above regarding this.

Again how many "ghetto" famlies have the net. Most will go to a record shop.

 

[S O F I]

Yeah. Most people were playing dozens, Djing, tagging, and breaking because they liked to. Not because they though there was money in it. People still do now. When Hip-hop started, it started on the street, in the park at the crib. It wasn't a multi-million dollar industry.

Well, yes. But, I believe that in those times, people associated with hip-hop were wishing that hip-hop would become a multi-million dollar industry that it is today.

Agreed. You see tagging still. But it's not considered by many to be part of hip-hop. Start a thread on this board asking what hip-hop is. Most people will define it as a genre of music.

There were threads started. Fortunately, there was always a person quick enough to name the elements, therefore we did not see so many people answer that it's just a genre of music. I still agree with your point though.

You've named 2. Out of how many tracks released last year?
I can name about 5 mainstream rappers who don't chat about guns and gangs. Not many is it?

I'm sure that I could name more, but it all depends on how you look at it. Do you look it at from a bright side, or...you know?

Dunno what to say. But check fabolous' last 3 records. Sound pretty samey to 50 cent to me.

Well, the way I worded it, I meant to point out that they make similar records. My bad if you understood wrong.

I've been to the concerts. I've seen the percentage of white and black faces. Trust me, it's not propaganda.
Plus I'm not blaming white teens, I'm blaming money hungry labels and rappers.

What do concerts really tell you? Are they fair enough proof of the hip-hop fan base? Think, concerts cost money. Most Black people in the ghetto don't feel like putting up 40 bucks for a 2-3 hour show. Not just Blacks, but anybody with a not-so-large income. But, I mean, you have a 100,000 dollar budget...what do I know?

I'm not saying rap music is crap. I'm still a fan. And like I said I don't believe it is dying. All I'm saying is there is more to hip-hop than money, which people seem to forget. Hip-hop is classified as gang music, yet most gang members still listen to James brown, Marvin Gaye, etc.
I like Mainstream music too. Who wants to listen to conscious rap in a club or at a party. I own all 50 Cents cd's. All I'm saying is I'd appreciate more originality. XXL's review of Massacre had it right, there was more there underneath, the potential showed through, but 50 wasn't prepared to risk his empire and his money.

What can I say? I agree. However, I still believe rappers are able to make dope records even if they still don't shy away from the "formula". The B. Coming is an example, the song that gets played most on the radio is Don't Stop with Snoop Dogg, produced by the Neptunes. It's a song by the formula. However, there's still very dope songs on the CD such as feel in the air, it's on, wanted dead or alive, purple rain, oh daddy, change gonna come, etc. All in all, very few rappers are experimental today, is what we can sum it up to. As for the industry just growing in terms of money, there's more positive, then negative.

 

[one mc on dj]

Sofistik's post reminded me of Jason's thread...As a hip-hop head Jason was probably the worst member on this board...but his thread did get a lot of real good posts!

NEwayz I have nothing intelligent to add to this thread so I bit some 1's post and decided to post it up...

 

[Pacaveli-T]

its good beacause it brings back a old face to music with different styles and it opened a door to new trends that are pretty good....rock n roll kinda shicked me its still 1st i always knew it was great in the ranking but i shouldent be suprised once the baby boomers are gone hip hop will probably be at #1....it has though a negative impact cause whether we like it or not hip hop does get blamed for a lot of the violence and etc in society some people act the music out...like life there are good and bad things about everything....