Technology Apple

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
I am a Windows man. It has it's flaws. Many of them. But I will admit that, and so will most Windows users. The majority of mac users are plebs. I still see dickheads on facebook posting "Get a Mac, they don't get viruses" And some of those work in IT. Really!!!!! They defend their OS.

I also think Android is harder to code for as there are many hardware options. With iOS you only need to code for a couple of phones. Plus... They charge more, so there is more profit.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Coonie, I think your experience with Windows ended with XP. 7 is really a great OS, imho much more organized than MacOSX, but we all have our preferences - surely though there's nothing there that you can do on MacOS that you can't do on Windows 7 easily. Not the other way around though.

If it comes to UI changes they were only necessary. Changes from the very first Windows up until 7 were constant and always very positive, and they were a needed refresh. I can't picture myself working with Windows 95 now, obviously, and with Apple you guys might soon be forced to use 10 year old UI.

I agree that Windows might have flaws, though with Windows 7 if there are any they are so very small, that I've never had a single problem with that OS for over 3 years now. I don't like Microsoft by any means but I think with Windows 7 they created the best desktop operating system ever.

If it comes to tablets I agree - there's easily more, better optimized apps for the Ipad than Android.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Coonie, I think your experience with Windows ended with XP. 7 is really a great OS, imho much more organized than MacOSX, but we all have our preferences - surely though there's nothing there that you can do on MacOS that you can't do on Windows 7 easily. Not the other way around though.

If it comes to UI changes they were only necessary. Changes from the very first Windows up until 7 were constant and always very positive, and they were a needed refresh. I can't picture myself working with Windows 95 now, obviously, and with Apple you guys might soon be forced to use 10 year old UI.

I agree that Windows might have flaws, though with Windows 7 if there are any they are so very small, that I've never had a single problem with that OS for over 3 years now. I don't like Microsoft by any means but I think with Windows 7 they created the best desktop operating system ever.

If it comes to tablets I agree - there's easily more, better optimized apps for the Ipad than Android.
No, I had a Vista notebook for two-plus years and the desktops in my parents house run on XP and Win7. I have no problem with it, and perhaps on a newer machine it would run even faster, but something about OSX just makes it seem easier to use. Maybe I'm used to it more now after using it the past two-plus years?

Maybe I need more time with Win7 on a better machine? I know PCs' hardware blows Apple's hardware out of the water, but I feel OSX feels quicker because I'm not gaming on it, but instead the OS is well-maintained and there I rarely have to force close programs or have my MBP hang while opening a program.

I am kinda anxious to see how a similarly-priced Windows notebook would perform if I were to use it the way I used my Mac. But I feel the reason I love my Mac is the same reason I see a good number of reputable blogs and review sites still choose the MBA from the ultrabook crop, and the MBP from the notebook crop every time. Anandtech, The Verge, BGR, etc.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
No, I had a Vista notebook for two-plus years and the desktops in my parents house run on XP and Win7. I have no problem with it, and perhaps on a newer machine it would run even faster, but something about OSX just makes it seem easier to use. Maybe I'm used to it more now after using it the past two-plus years?

Maybe I need more time with Win7 on a better machine? I know PCs' hardware blows Apple's hardware out of the water, but I feel OSX feels quicker because I'm not gaming on it, but instead the OS is well-maintained and there I rarely have to force close programs or have my MBP hang while opening a program.

I am kinda anxious to see how a similarly-priced Windows notebook would perform if I were to use it the way I used my Mac. But I feel the reason I love my Mac is the same reason I see a good number of reputable blogs and review sites still choose the MBA from the ultrabook crop, and the MBP from the notebook crop every time. Anandtech, The Verge, BGR, etc.
I think it's about getting used to and preferences. If it comes to PC a lot of people buy sub-par hardware and I don't mean only numbers but manufacturers. You can buy a shitty 600W PSU that will make your computer troublesome, or you can buy one for a little more that will last you 10 years without a single restart. Same with graphics cards - you can go for a new nvidia from manufacturer x that is shitty or manufacturer y that is aawesome, even the same manufacturer have the same card in a few different versions and one might be loud and hot, and another might be cool with passive cooling. You can buy super awesome hardware if you know what you're doing or know someone who knows a thing or two about computers and have the best thing for the money, tailored to your needs or even all-around best.

If it comes to laptops Apple is the "I don't know what I'm buying but Apple is always above-average so I'll go for it" company.
You have companies like Lenovo who make Thinkpads - the best laptops quality-wise hands down, but they have all markets covered - so they also make low end devices. So in theory shopping for "A Lenovo" might get you the best laptop, or a mediocre-quality one. And then you have Apple who make "premium" devices only, so in theory going for a MacBook Pro might be easier because you know that you're getting something that isn't a piece of crap if you want to play it safe and be lazy with your choice. It's how a lot of people buy Iphones too - they know that it's okay because a lot of people use it, they are afraid of making another choice, because they're too lazy to think of alternatives and they're afraid that they'll make the wrong choice, because with Windows and Android there's risk of making a bad choice, because you have choice in the first place.

Companies often use Apple because they get better opportunities to use Apple products. My company was offered Macbooks for 30% of their retail price. The point is that my company used to make laptops, before another company bought their laptop division so they use that company's laptops for cheap, and they're better so from this very example it's obvious that Apple are very aggressive at pushing their Macbooks to businesses. They often offer Macbooks and even offer Windows installation, because obviously most companies run Windows.
Also, people in charge of making a choice want to play it safe too and get Macbook pros for their companies instead of having to take a risk of going for something crappy, because they are too lazy to research and even then they would not be confident enough in their choices.

And finally Macbook Air is one of the best ultrabooks, Macbook Pro is a good laptop hardware-wise. It's not top of the game but it's above average and it's got the looks (minus the logo). For me the worst part is the price premium and the fact that it's made to run MacOS and it's just not convenient or useful to me. I need to be able to right click, I need a trackpoint, I need to be able to lock my laptop's lid when it's closed, I don't want a huge, shiny logo and I don't want (can't have) MacOS, I don't want to pay money that I know go straight to the company's pocket with a huuge premium and I need to be able to customize and be able to upgrade my laptop. Otherwise I might be running a Macbook Air now because I like the looks.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I can see what you're saying, but the last paragraph threw me off a bit. Please don't tell me you're one of those people that thinks Macs can't right click. You either press the trackpad down, physically, with two fingers, or you tap the trackpad with two fingers, or if you really want to do an extra step, you hold "command"+ one-finger click to right click. I cut and past all the time. I never have an issue with it.

What's trackpoint? I'm not familiar with it.

Locking your laptop's lid? Explain that too.

The logo can be a bit of a turn-off. It caters to the pompous shits that want the world to know they have an MBP. If I could take it out and just have the aluminum casing in plain, that would be ideal. But it's not a deal-breaker for me. You can do some real creative stuff with it, like put stickers on it. As gay as it may sound. But it's not like Apple is the only one to put a logo on their lid; pretty sure every other manufacturer puts their brand name on it too. It's not Apple's fault their logo is one of the most widely-recognized logos in the world. Would that deter you from putting your logo on your product if you were in the same position?
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
t, but instead the OS is well-maintained and there I rarely have to force close programs or have my MBP hang while opening a program.

.
I have never experienced this on Windows. Not since Vista. I never had to close programs. I never have to go in the taskbar. I don't have an amazing laptop. I have a Lenovo X220. I treat it like shit, I have no virus scanner. I have no viruses, and no issues. I am not a gamer, but I do a lot on it. For downloading I have my server running WHS 11. Which I also like. And my home network is very easy, becasuse they are all windows software based devices. This means I am windows invested, so never going to pick up a mac.

I don't get Force closes on android either though.

I think a lot of time it's user errors. And more people have windows than macs.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I know that you technically "can" right click but it's much harder to do so, especially since I use right click almost as much as left click. Saying that Macs can right click is like saying they can run Windows programs. Technically it's 'possible' but it's far from being as convenient.

If it comes to the logo it's not about the fact that it is there. The worst part is that it's freaking HUGE and freaking backlit. It looks extremely cheesy.

Trackpoint is something that business laptop have. It's a pointing device popular for being much more comfrotable and accurate than touchpad. I almost prefer it over a mouse because you can type and scroll almost at the same time with your hands on the keyboard all the time.



Well, in Apple laptops and most budget laptops you can't close your lid or open it comfortably with a button. That's how things can get between the screen and keyboard and scratch it, that's why laptops are not fully shock-proof while closed and some are harder to open up - it might not sound like a big deal but most business laptop have this and I think it's very convenient. The meachanism looks like this (there's a button for opening the lid on top):
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I don't have an amazing laptop. I have a Lenovo X220. I treat it like shit
Actually that laptop is pretty amazing. Quality-wise. It's a Thinkpad.

I currently have X301. aka 13' lighter than Macbook Air, with dvd burner, 3usbs, gps, 3g, led keyboard light and titanum cover, and all of those things that I mentioned in my previous post that I'd miss while switching to Macbook air.

Coonie, this is my Thinkpad and I'm even bored enough to show you things on the laptop's exterior that I value a lot in business class laptops that are really neat and it'd make my life much harder if they were not there:


Fingerprint scanner is the least important but it's cool to have data comfortably encrypted and unhackable in case some shit goes down.
*Drawn in paint via the great trackpoint of my Thinkpad.
 

S O F I

Administrator
Staff member
I know that you technically "can" right click but it's much harder to do so, especially since I use right click almost as much as left click. Saying that Macs can right click is like saying they can run Windows programs. Technically it's 'possible' but it's far from being as convenient.
this is just completely false. a completely twisted view of facts.

The right-click on Macs is extremely convenient. I mean, it's like a masturbator's dream because you can do everything on the trackpad with the most ease that you can easily jerk off with the other hand.

It's much easier for me to right click by tapping the pad with two fingers anywhere on the pad because I scroll with two fingers already and move around with the index finger, than to move my hand to a different location so that I can right click.

IN SHORT, IT IS COMPLETELY FALSE TO SUGGEST THAT SAYING MACS CAN RIGHT CLICK IS LIKE SAYING THEY CAN RUN WINDOWS PROGRAMS.

it is probably one of the dumbest things you've ever said on this board.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
this is just completely false. a completely twisted view of facts.

The right-click on Macs is extremely convenient. I mean, it's like a masturbator's dream because you can do everything on the trackpad with the most ease that you can easily jerk off with the other hand.
You might be so used to it and not realize what "convenient" really means but seriously tapping touchpad with two fingers evey time you want to right click is not convenient.

While using trackpoint you have the right click and left click buttons directly under your fingers while still having your palm on the keyboard. It's more awesome than a mouse. You can comfortably play counterstrike like that, or strategy games, seriously. Modelling something for work? Not a problem. Graphics, dragging a lot of shit with right click pressed? Not a problem.

I can't even picture having to move the whole palm of my hand to the touchpad area all the time to try to touch it with two fingers just to right click, which is something most people do really a lot. With Windows-laptop touchpads it's still better than Macs because you have to use 1 finger and there's a physical button for that. How can you not have physical buttons for your touchpad? They're really much, much more convenient if you really want to use a touchpad.

On a side note when we were installing Windows on my friend's Mac it was easier for us to right click with "control" button pressed. Still I couldn't figure out how to drag things with right button pressed, which is pretty silly since it was a MacBook Pro bought for graphics editing, where you drag with right click pressed a lot.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I just pretended that I had a right click button and tried tapping it. Then I tried a two finger tap. I couldn't tell the difference. I imagine both take the same amount of time, but yes, I might be used to it.

I feel like an idiot for both the trackpoint and the screen lock. I was overthinking it. I don't see many notebooks with the locks these days. I know our first noteback in 96 was a Compaq Presario-something. That was the first and last time we owned one with the locks.

Trackpoint is kinda meh to me. Maybe I gotta use that more and see for myself. I can see how it requires less movement to use the mouse, though.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Trackpoints and those cool locks are mostly used by Lenovo, HP and Dell in their business laptops (I think almost all have them, definitely all Lenovo Thinkpads until this day). Some Samsung and Toshiba models have them too, some as an option. They often call it "pointing stick" or other things. I think trackpoint is really great once you get used to it. I really love it and dropping it for a touchpad would be very hard for me.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
So my mom is looking for a Windows notebook to use for web browsing and word processing. It also needs to be able to run billing programs as well. Not sure how resource intensive they are, but I'm not looking for a bottom of the barrel priced notebook.

I know you guys like Lenovo a lot, and seeing Masta's penchant for their notebooks, I suggested that to her. Can anyone suggest a specific line, or will a ThinkPad suffice?

Any other brands? I think there's a big emphasis on reliability, and I know ASUS is up there as well while Acer is the exact opposite. I just don't know if ASUS makes business oriented laptops. I could be wrong. I've never looked properly in the recent years.

Any suggestions?
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Asus isn't anywhere as reliable as Lenovo, Dell or HP business lines and Asus don't make business lines. Asus make great price/performance laptops and low-priced laptops in decent quality for their price. But if you're looking for something really reliable and can pay a bit more and don't need high graphics performance I wouldn't go for Asus.

Thinkpads are great machines, but they are expensive. "Thinkpad" will suffice because there are no failed models honestly. There are T-series and X-series that are the best. T-series are 14 or 15 inch machines and x-series are 12,5-inch machines. These two series are always high-quality.

HP's business line is called "Elitebook". They are unfortunately a bit outdated for their price so I'd definitely rather recommend Thinkpads.

Then there's Dell and their business lines which have a history of being almost as good as Thinkpads. Not quite as great, but there's always been a cheaper model that did "almost" like a directly competing model from Lenovo. It changed a bit with the last 2 series that aren't as great mostly because they have a lot of business features missing. But their price has also dropped. Anyway you might want to check the Dell Latitude line.

If it comes to Thinkpads there's a new line now. This is the T430, a casual 14-inch model:
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/t-series/t430/
This is a slimmer and lighter version:
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/t-series/t430s/
If you want something chepaer there's last year's T420, that isn't significantly slower and the main difference is lack of discrete graphics and the old-school but comfortable keyboard:
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/t-series/?menu-id=learn&ref-id=learn
If you want something smaller there's the X230, which is really a little and awesome 12,5inch laptop:
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/x-series/x230/

Personally I'd go for T430s or X230 because of their portability but if it isn't an issue then T430 and T420 are really as good. They're all very high quality laptops.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
My 3rd post in a row in an Apple thread, yay.

It might be too much to wish for but I really hope that when the Iphone 5 comes out in October it's going to be a game changer. Why? Android phones seem to be getting only bigger and faster (on paper). Frankly, the real life differences between this year's flagships and last year ones, even those from 2 years ago.. aren't spectacular. They might appear to be big but come to think of it all you get is a bigger screen, a new version of your OS that brings some minor changes and a really minor (real life) performance upgrade. What you get though is a lot of marketing from manufacturers, making you feel like you need a new phone, even when a new model won't increase your funtionality, while costing 3 times as much as your previous one.
Not to mention the design teams that seem to move backwards.

Frankly? I often feel like I want a new toy. On another hand I'm content with my 1ghz single core CPU and 4,2 inch screen.
Most modded and properly optimized Android releases work as well on my single core cpu as they would on quad core beasts, because they simply don't max out my CPU doing casual tasks. All Android games so far work well on my 2 year old Adreno 205 or your average SGS1 GPU. Of course they would load a bit faster on new phones and of course it'd be cool to have a 4,5 screen instead of 4,2. But is it worth paying twice as much or even more, really? Is it this improvement that I'm looking for? For me, I'm not happy with new models coming out. It's like they moved ahead of everybody and now they lack inspiration, so they're doing what they did to move ahead in the first place - they're bigger and faster. I don't want to go only bigger and faster, because I don't want a bigger phone and I don't really need a quad core. I'd want them to innovate and improve other things now. I'd want something totally different than the "same old" that came out this year. Technology allows them to innovate yet manufacturers appear to be lazy, going for things that used to sell 3 years ago, 2 years ago and a year ago and most probably will sell this year too because there's nothing too different.

While I don't suppose that the Iphone 5 is going to be more than the same old boring brick, just with a slightly bigger screen I really hope that it's going to be something more revolutionary simply because I want something cooler from the Android camp.
 

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