Where is Jesus?

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Gene Roddenberry: "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."


Arthur C. Clarke: "Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?"


Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche: "I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time."


Stephen F Roberts: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


Voltaire: "Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men."



Killer.
 
W210 said:
When I see a building, common sense tells me there was a builder.
When I see a painting, common sense tells me there was a painter.
And when I see creation, common sense tells me there is a creator.
The problem is, who created the creator? Now try to use logic sense on that one.

Religious people would come with arguments that "God works in mysterious ways" etc, and ofcourse, because that really is the easiest way to explain the unexplainable.

You cant throw logic sense into the discussion like you did, ofcourse the origin of the universe cant be explained with common sense, thats logic to me, Glock just pointed out what he likes about the world we (Some of us) live in.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
Look around at the evidence. Psalm 19:1-2 tells us: The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge. God wants us to know He exists. Where is God? We see Him in what He has created.

Do you believe that God wants you to see Him? The Bible says He does. He reveals Himself to us. Psalm 98:2 says, The Lord has made known His salvation; His righteousness He has revealed in the sight of the nations.

God reveals Himself to us through His creation (see Romans 1:20) and through His Word: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Finally, God desires us to know Him so much that He took on the form of a man, in the person of His Son Jesus Christ. Consider these words from Paul in Philippians 2:6-8: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
 
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of religion here" Patrick Henry

" No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation." Supreme Court 1887



"If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of this land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end." Daniel Webster



"I wish I could leave you my most cherished possession--my faith in Jesus Christ. For with Him you have everything; without Him you have nothing at all." Patrick Henry



- History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed in to political and economic decline. General Douglas MacArthur


- "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." ....so great is my veneration of the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read, the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens in their country and respectful members of society." John Adams, 2nd President of the United States

"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, 4th President of the United States


"The patriot who feels himself in the service of God, who acknowledges Him in all his ways, has the promise of Almighty direction, and will find His Word in his greatest darkness, a lantern to his feet and a lamp unto his paths.' He will therefore seek to establish for his country in the eyes of the world, such a character as shall make her not unworthy of the name of a Christian nation...." Francis Scott Key, Author of the Star Spangled Banner

"Knowing that intercessory prayer is our mightiest weapon and the supreme call for all Christians today, I pleadingly urge our people everywhere to pray. ... Let us pray for our nation. Let us pray for those who have never known Jesus Christ and redeeming love, for moral forces everywhere, for our national leader. Let prayer be our passion. Let prayer be our practice." General Robert E. Lee CSA


One must keep on pointing out that Christianity is a statement which, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The one thing it cannot be is moderately important.
C.S. Lewis

The distinction between Christianity and all other systems of religion consists largely in this, that in these others, men are found seeking after God, while Christianity is God seeking after men.
Thomas Arnold


June 27, 2006
We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven. We have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God ... We have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!

Abraham Lincoln



John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress


“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
-Benjamin Franklin–Constitutional Convention of 1787


"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
-Alexander Hamilton


“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
Thomas Jefferson:


“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
Thomas Jefferson:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
Thomas Jefferson:

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
Thomas Jefferson:

(excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]




“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Thomas Paine:


“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
George Washington:


Johannes Kepler [1571-1630]
Astronomy/Laws of Planetary Motion
"I had the intention of becoming a theologian...but now I see how God is, by my endeavors, also glorified in astronomy, for 'the heavens declare the glory of God.'"

"I am a Christian...I believe... only and alone in the service of Jesus Christ...In Him is all refuge, all solace."

"Let my name perish if only the name of God the Father is thereby elevated."

"[God] is the kind Creator who brought forth nature out of nothing."



" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"
Sir Isaac Newton


Louis Pasteur [1822-1895]
Father of Microbiology, developed "pasteurization"
"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator."

"Science brings men nearer to God."



Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us...
the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words."
Lord Kelvin



An atheist's most embarrassing moment is when he feels profoundly thankful for something, but can't think of anybody to thank for it.
Mary Ann Vincent
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
Ya i knew that when I posted those quotes this would become some big quotes thread because there are quotes from both sides. I brought up the quotes because W210 named C S Lewis like he was the champion of athieism that converted to christianity
 
Glockmatic said:
Ya i knew that when I posted those quotes this would become some big quotes thread because there are quotes from both sides. I brought up the quotes because W210 named C S Lewis like he was the champion of athieism that converted to christianity

Champion of atheism is an oxymoron
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
beReal said:
Lmao, hahah. Honestly Glock and Illu...i cant understand why you guys are still talking to Teck and co. You guys are living in a complete different world so it hurts my brain to see your replies and their responses :(
You and your post are about as unwanted and useless to this thread as a reggae band at a kkk convention

jokerman said:
Well, you get to fire an AK-47 up in the air when angry. It's mandatory. And fun.
I dont fire AK-47's, just M16's

jamie.uk fan said:
There are some great quotes above - Lets see if Mr tek-neex can comment on some , my guess he will pick and choose the ones he thinks he can answer and blindly dismiss the others with his usual Quraan quotes
Yes cause I care so much about quotes from freud, Rodenberry, mark twain and other side show freaks. When you care about pro-religion/God quotes ill start caring about anti-religion quotes, Deal?

The problem is, who created the creator? Now try to use logic sense on that one.
Natural Selection did than it gave him the ability to create

Religious people would come with arguments that "God works in mysterious ways" etc, and ofcourse, because that really is the easiest way to explain the unexplainable.
Hey I'd use "some" religious people if I were you, I've never used that argument
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
Illuminattile said:
OK, I'm going to try and explain this to you again. Please pay attention this time.

So, do you understand what "Pascal's wager" is? It's the argument I just explained.

Now, in one of W210's posts, he described that argument. He said "If your right and Im wrong, when I die, so what. But if I'm right and your wrong, you will be paying for it forever."

"Pascal's wager" is an argument for the belief in God. It states that, even if you're not convinced that God exists, you should believe in him anyway. If God exists, Pascal argued, the benefit of believing in him is infinite (you go to Heaven). If God doesn't exist, you don't lose anything.


W210 brought up "Pascal's wager". Can you see that now? Whether he knew it or not, what he said WAS "Pascal's wager".

Here's the important part, and the bit you seem to be confused about; I'm not saying "Pascal's wager" is the reason he believes in God. Got that? He brought up the argument - you'll have to ask him why he brought it up - and I simply explained why the argument wasn't a good one.

That took a lot longer than it had to. Please try to keep up.
Holy Shit!. Ok are you saying that if I said to you right now that "If your right and Im wrong, when I die, so what. But if I'm right and your wrong, you will be paying for it forever." Will Pascal's Wager apply to me even though im 100% convinced that God exists? If so than you should NOT have said this. "Pascal's wager" is an argument for the belief in God. It states that even if you're not convinced that God exists, you should believe in him anyway.. PERIOD!. If not than you're an idiot for arguing this long because W210 is convinced that God exists.

what he said is TRUE he DOES have that chance being saved, There is NO PW when he said that, because HE'S confident and convinced that he exists, so YOU shouldn't have brought up PW because you said above that PW applies only to people who are NOT convinced that he exists!!.


So which is it? you cant have it both ways, it just doesn't fucking work!. I can't fucking believe you still havent caught on to that.

Even if the complexity of the Universe is enough to make you believe in Creationism, you still have to pick a specific Creator. Even if I decided that I believed in Creationism, I'd have to sift through all the various deities that people credit for creating the Universe and choose one of them. Why should I pick your God over all the others

Of course. Because you've chosen your religion, for whatever reason, and you think it's the "real" one. I could speak to a Sikh or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Zoroastrian and they'd all tell me the same thing.
Pretty much all religions speak of a one true all-knowing and an All-Mighty deity that created all, so you'll more likely be sifting through religions not deities. If I go any further to explain your "many religions" question I would have to give you an Islamic perspective and you may not like it. If you're interested i will answer that for you.
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
If I go any further to explain your "many religions" question I would have to give you an Islamic perspective and you may not like it. If you're interested i will answer that for you.
please do, i'm tired of the christian point of view (but i have a feeling it'll be the same)
 
Minardi said:
The problem is, who created the creator? Now try to use logic sense on that one.

thats a hard one. i think of god's creation as incomprehendable to the human's mind. this world is bound by laws such as everything needs to be created by something. but what if god (being the world's creator) was not bound by these laws. i guess for an athiest thats probably unacceptable, especially for the ppl on this board. from what i've read nobody is going to convince the other so this thread is kinda pointless
 
I think I've managed to simplify it enough now. You shouldn't have any trouble understanding this.

W210 brought up the argument. For whatever reason, he decided to argue that if he was wrong, it wouldn't matter, but that if I was wrong I would go to Hell. That believing in God brought obvious positives if true, and no negatives if false. That is called Pascal's wager. I, in turn, explained why it didn't work. That's what happened. Then you jumped in and misconstrued it all. Here's where you went wrong;

TecK NeeX said:
Holy Shit!. Ok are you saying that if I said to you right now that "If your right and Im wrong, when I die, so what. But if I'm right and your wrong, you will be paying for it forever." Will Pascal's Wager apply to me even though im 100% convinced that God exists?
You're assuming (for some reason) that I think W210's only argument for his belief in God is Pascal's wager. You're assuming that I think his only reason for believing in God is because it doesn't take much effort and there's a chance it'll get him into heaven. That's not what I think, and it's not what I said.

Pascal's wager isn't (necessarily) the reason he believes in God, and at no point did I say or imply or suggest that, but he still brought it up. And if you bring it up, like W210 did, then I'm going to point out why it doesn't work as an argument. It makes no difference whether you're completely convinced that God exists, Pascal's wager still doesn't work as an argument and shouldn't be brought up to try and prove any point.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
Sorry but i have to say it: Teck, you are a complete idiot!

I admire Illu for having the patience explaining such a simple argument to you over and over again.
 
If man was going to make up a god , why do you think that he would have made one up that is so hard to please and has such high standards which in turn sends most of the world to hell. If you were going to create a god wouldnt he be a little easier to please.
 
W210 said:
If man was going to make up a god , why do you think that he would have made one up that is so hard to please and has such high standards which in turn sends most of the world to hell. If you were going to create a god wouldnt he be a little easier to please.
Maybe whoever created these Gods wanted people to adhere to certain rules. The best way to get someone to do something is to tell that that God wants them to, and will punish them if they don't. What better incentive than Heaven; what better deterrent than Hell?
 

Glockmatic

Well-Known Member
W210 said:
If man was going to make up a god , why do you think that he would have made one up that is so hard to please and has such high standards which in turn sends most of the world to hell. If you were going to create a god wouldnt he be a little easier to please.
strict rules means more control, people follow those rules because they don't want to go to hell for eternity
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Illuminattile said:
. What better incentive than Heaven; what better deterrent than Hell?

I hope a 100 years from now that quote will be used in similar debates, lol.

props for trying to argue with Teck
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
Illuminattile said:
I think I've managed to simplify it enough now. You shouldn't have any trouble understanding this.

YOU still dont get what im trying to say, you're accusing me of things i didn't say and your assumptions are totaly not true. You have patience but i dont. Lets agree to disagree

Oh and the points you brought up to prove why this wager doesnt work did not work really well. Does he not still have that chance of being right?

BeReal said:
Sorry but i have to say it: Teck, you are a complete idiot!

I admire Illu for having the patience explaining such a simple argument to you over and over again
Really, stop being a fucking cheerleader on the sidelines and contribute to this thread. You wanna cheerlead here, Give me an F U C K O F F, what does that spell? knowing you being a dunce and all I'll say it for you, Fuck off! :thumb:


Illuminatille said:
Maybe whoever created these Gods wanted people to adhere to certain rules. The best way to get someone to do something is to tell that that God wants them to, and will punish them if they don't. What better incentive than Heaven; what better deterrent than Hell?

Glockmatic said:
strict rules means more control, people follow those rules because they don't want to go to hell for eternity
Yes its nice to control people with rules that you have the freedom to follow them or not, yeah some strict rules those are and what an effective way to control lives. Rulers and leaders have set rules many times in the past and their way of controling people was that if you broke these rules you will be killed, thats control not "this book says that and this book says this but it's all up to you if you wanna follow them or not. Obviously these rules did not work with you 2 and millions of others so tell me again how do religions control people?

Like this?

Yo Illuminattile and Glock, God says if you dont follow his rules you willl go to hell. BANG you are now being controlled :rolleyes:
 

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