Where is Jesus?

[W210]

What he said in that post WAS Pascal's Wager. Look, I'll post up Pascal's Wager for you;


He's saying exactly what W210 said. That argument, for the belief in God is called Pascal's wager. It has nothing to do with why W210 believes in God.

Do you understand now?


And you can't see how irrational that is? You can't see how unjust that is?

"Sorry, you lived a good life, but you were brought up to believe in a different God. Off to Hell you go."

"Sorry, you lived a good life, but you weren't convinced by a book written more than a thousand years containing no evidence of my existence. No Heaven for you."

If God puts so much stock in people accepting that he exists, the least he could do is give people a little evidence. It's impossible for someone to objectively look at all religions and decide which one is the "true God", if a true God exists at all.

Want evidence that He exists...Go outside.

 

[Glockmatic]

He is a loving God, but at the same time he is a rightous God, that hates sin and will punish sin with death when He deems it neccessary.

i thought he would just judge people when they die and not out right kill them

The egyptians were warned numerous times. Moses told them that that would happen, if they didnt release the people, and they didnt and God was faithful to His promise. Thats what can happen if you dont fear God. Really though how big of an idiot was pharoah for that, after all he had seen and been through.

Only the Pharoah was warned, and his punishment was the killing of innocents who had nothing to do with it? So you worship a god who doesn't follow his own rules and kills innocent people, sends people who doesn't believe in him to hell (which is probably filled to the brim with infidels) and hes the all-loving one?

Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being Jewish. For that, we call him evil.
God burns Anne Frank for being Jewish, forever. For that, christians call him "good"

Want evidence that He exists...Go outside.

want evidence he doesn't exist? go outside. works both ways

 

[Minardi]

^^but Glock, you seem to forget something very important.

God works in mysterious ways, cased closed damnit!

 

[Glockmatic]

^^but Glock, you seem to forget something very important.

God works in mysterious ways, cased closed damnit!

damnit, this discussion is now over, I BELIEVE IN GOD ALLMIGHTY! Now, which of the 33,000 different denominations of christianity to choose from...I gotta pick the one that reads the bible the right way!

 

[TecK NeeX]

What he said in that post WAS Pascal's Wager. Look, I'll post up Pascal's Wager for you;

He's saying exactly what W210 said. That argument, for the belief in God is called Pascal's wager. It has nothing to do with why W210 believes in God.

Do you understand now?

For fuck sakes, YOU said that PW applies only to people who adopt a religion just to avoid hell, RIGHT? W210 is NOT one of those people. He's NOT WAGERING anything, PERIOD. He's christian because he loves God NOT because he thinks that will save him from hell. What he said in that post is NOT PW. Your post that came after was PW.

Im Muslim not because i believe that will get me a free pass to heaven, I'm Muslim because i have faith and if i said that if Islam is right I will be saved and you wont, thats NOT PW, because im not a Muslim just to avoid hell. which is what PW is according to you.

So you brought up PW not W210. All believers have hope and non-believers dont. Thats not PW thats faith and they have a chance of being right. The only way W210 posts could be considered PW is if he said hes only christian just to avoid hell and THATS IT.

Now do YOU understand?,

And you can't see how irrational that is? You can't see how unjust that is?

Nope i dont, It can't get anymore fair and just than that.

"Sorry, you lived a good life, but you were brought up to believe in a different God. Off to Hell you go

"Sorry, you lived a good life, but you weren't convinced by a book written more than a thousand years containing no evidence of my existence. No Heaven for you."

If God puts so much stock in people accepting that he exists, the least he could do is give people a little evidence.

Yes thats how God will judge us

Obviously theres plenty of evidence of a creator and a designer to people that believe otherwise they'd be unbelievers now wouldn't they? Our solar system and the complexity of all life forms are more than just evidence to me that a designer/creator exists, to you its just chance and coincidence. Whos fault is that? Mine, Gods or yours? You wont except anything short of God appearing before you and telling you that he exists, but that will destroy the purpose of life, judgement day and the after life not to mention faith. Thats what you fail to understand

I dont expect God to appear before me to acknowledge his existence because i understand why he will not (that time will come after our short stay on Earth). You refuse to accept why he wont, thats your fault and nobody elses. So yes you will be judged for that no matter how good of a person you are.

Like ive said many times God is fair and just, he will judge each and every one of us according to the environment and conditions we were raised in.

It's impossible for someone to objectively look at all religions and decide which one is the "true God", if a true God exists at all.

I dont believe thats impossible.

 

[BombFirst5]

after prayer u get a great feeling inside..like complete satisfaction/happiness. havent experienced it doin anything else. guess atheists wouldnt understand how much religion has done for me

 

[Minardi]

after prayer u get a great feeling inside..like complete satisfaction/happiness. havent experienced it doin anything else. guess atheists wouldnt understand how much religion has done for me

I get the same feeling after eating a beef :thumb:

Its your brain activating the award center, wich stimulates you.
A non religious person wich havent been taught that "praying is something good for me" wouldnt have this feeling.

 

[Duke]

Want evidence that He exists...Go outside.

I just did, I'm not convinced.

 

[troublesome2004]

damnit, this discussion is now over, I BELIEVE IN GOD ALLMIGHTY! Now, which of the 33,000 different denominations of christianity to choose from...I gotta pick the one that reads the bible the right way!

The Bible explains itself. Salvation is possible only through Jesus not through any denomination. If you wanna 'pick one' try to find out who lives by the rules of the Bible and not just preach the theology.

 

[Sebastian]

I just did, I'm not convinced.

Lmao, hahah. Honestly Glock and Illu...i cant understand why you guys are still talking to Teck and co. You guys are living in a complete different world so it hurts my brain to see your replies and their responses

 

[Illuminattile]

For fuck sakes, YOU said that PW applies only to people who adopt a religion just to avoid hell, RIGHT? W210 is NOT one of those people. He's NOT WAGERING anything, PERIOD. He's christian because he loves God NOT because he thinks that will save him from hell. What he said in that post is NOT PW. Your post that came after was PW.

OK, I'm going to try and explain this to you again. Please pay attention this time.

"Pascal's wager" is an argument for the belief in God. It states that, even if you're not convinced that God exists, you should believe in him anyway. If God exists, Pascal argued, the benefit of believing in him is infinite (you go to Heaven). If God doesn't exist, you don't lose anything.

So, do you understand what "Pascal's wager" is? It's the argument I just explained.

Now, in one of W210's posts, he described that argument. He said "If your right and Im wrong, when I die, so what. But if I'm right and your wrong, you will be paying for it forever."

W210 brought up "Pascal's wager". Can you see that now? Whether he knew it or not, what he said WAS "Pascal's wager".

Here's the important part, and the bit you seem to be confused about; I'm not saying "Pascal's wager" is the reason he believes in God. Got that? He brought up the argument - you'll have to ask him why he brought it up - and I simply explained why the argument wasn't a good one.

That took a lot longer than it had to. Please try to keep up.

Obviously theres plenty of evidence of a creator and a designer to people that believe otherwise they'd be unbelievers now wouldn't they? Our solar system and the complexity of all life forms are more than just evidence to me that a designer/creator exists, to you its just chance and coincidence. Whos fault is that? Mine, Gods or yours? You wont except anything short of God appearing before you and telling you that he exists, but that will destroy the purpose of life, judgement day and the after life not to mention faith. Thats what you fail to understand

Even if the complexity of the Universe is enough to make you believe in Creationism, you still have to pick a specific Creator. Even if I decided that I believed in Creationism, I'd have to sift through all the various deities that people credit for creating the Universe and choose one of them. Why should I pick your God over all the others?

I dont believe thats impossible.

Of course. Because you've chosen your religion, for whatever reason, and you think it's the "real" one. I could speak to a Sikh or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Zoroastrian and they'd all tell me the same thing.

 

[Glockmatic]

Lmao, hahah. Honestly Glock and Illu...i cant understand why you guys are still talking to Teck and co. You guys are living in a complete different world so it hurts my brain to see your replies and their responses

we live in a world of logic and common sense, its a nice world

 

[Jokerman]

What's so fun about being a Muslim? What can you do as a Muslim that you can't do as a non-Muslim?

Well, you get to fire an AK-47 up in the air when angry. It's mandatory. And fun.

Christians just throw holy water.

 

[W210]

Well, you get to fire an AK-47 up in the air when angry. It's mandatory. And fun.

Christians just throw holy water.

I dont think ive ever even seen holy water.

 

[W210]

we live in a world of logic and common sense, its a nice world

When I see a building, common sense tells me there was a builder.
When I see a painting, common sense tells me there was a painter.
And when I see creation, common sense tells me there is a creator.

 

[W210]

OK, I'm going to try and explain this to you again. Please pay attention this time.

"Pascal's wager" is an argument for the belief in God. It states that, even if you're not convinced that God exists, you should believe in him anyway. If God exists, Pascal argued, the benefit of believing in him is infinite (you go to Heaven). If God doesn't exist, you don't lose anything.

So, do you understand what "Pascal's wager" is? It's the argument I just explained.

Now, in one of W210's posts, he described that argument. He said "If your right and Im wrong, when I die, so what. But if I'm right and your wrong, you will be paying for it forever."

W210 brought up "Pascal's wager". Can you see that now? Whether he knew it or not, what he said WAS "Pascal's wager".

Here's the important part, and the bit you seem to be confused about; I'm not saying "Pascal's wager" is the reason he believes in God. Got that? He brought up the argument - you'll have to ask him why he brought it up - and I simply explained why the argument wasn't a good one.

That took a lot longer than it had to. Please try to keep up.


Even if the complexity of the Universe is enough to make you believe in Creationism, you still have to pick a specific Creator. Even if I decided that I believed in Creationism, I'd have to sift through all the various deities that people credit for creating the Universe and choose one of them. Why should I pick your God over all the others?


Of course. Because you've chosen your religion, for whatever reason, and you think it's the "real" one. I could speak to a Sikh or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Zoroastrian and they'd all tell me the same thing.

Do me a favor, go do some homework and scrutinize all the other religions out there, just like you and glockmatic have with christianity, and see which one stand up to whatever you throw at it. C.S. Lewis was an athiest too, and set out to once and for all prove there was no God... well you see how that turned out.

 

[Glockmatic]

name a religion and i'll scrutinize it

 

[W210]

I know thats right

 

[Glockmatic]

You bring up C.S Lewis, well alright I'll bring up some other names

Gore Vidal: "I'm a born-again atheist."

Mark Twain: "It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." "Faith is believing something you know ain't true."

Thomas Jefferson: "Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."

Sigmund Freud: "Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis."

Lucius Annaeus Seneca: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

James Madison: "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

Gene Roddenberry: "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."

George Carlin: "Religion is just mind control."

Benjamin Franklin: "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." "Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

Arthur C. Clarke: "Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?"

Albert Einstein: "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

Ferdinand Magellan: "The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche: "I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time."

Carl Sagan: "The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

Stephen F Roberts: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Susan B. Anthony: "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Blaise Pascal: "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"

Chapman Cohen: "Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."

Voltaire: "Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men."

Robert G. Ingersoll: "Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own?"

Denis Diderot: "The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers."

Al-Ma'arri: "The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence."

 

[jaimie.uk fan]

You bring up C.S Lewis, well alright I'll bring up some other names

Gore Vidal: "I'm a born-again atheist."

Mark Twain: "It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." "Faith is believing something you know ain't true."

Thomas Jefferson: "Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."

Sigmund Freud: "Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis."

Lucius Annaeus Seneca: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

James Madison: "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

Gene Roddenberry: "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."

George Carlin: "Religion is just mind control."

Benjamin Franklin: "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." "Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

Arthur C. Clarke: "Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?"

Albert Einstein: "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

Ferdinand Magellan: "The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche: "I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time."

Carl Sagan: "The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

Stephen F Roberts: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Susan B. Anthony: "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Blaise Pascal: "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"

Chapman Cohen: "Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."

Voltaire: "Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men."

Robert G. Ingersoll: "Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own?"

Denis Diderot: "The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers."

Al-Ma'arri: "The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence."

There are some great quotes above - Lets see if Mr tek-neex can comment on some , my guess he will pick and choose the ones he thinks he can answer and blindly dismiss the others with his usual Quraan quotes