Errors in the Quran

Rukas · Nov 17, 2005

Jurhum said:

Quran 7: 54 “Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in six days”
Quran 10: 3 “Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in six days”
Quran 11:7 “He it is Who created the heavens and earth in six days”
Quran-25:29: “He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in six days”

And then...
Quran 41: 9 “Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?”
Quran 41: 10 “He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four days…”
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …
Like I said man, you do the math. 2 + 2 + 4 = 8.

Dont aquse me of not having a source just because YOU dont know the Quran as well as you think. How can you know something is perfect if you dont even know it all? Youve on numerous occasions said “I dont know” when we talked in previous threads and the shoutbox and said you'd need to ask someone else. So you dont know the Quran, but know its 10000000% real?

I distinctly remember you, or perhaps it was Khalid, posting that the Quran is written in a hard to translate way because its almost like poetry in the original Arabic. I cant find the post now, and to be honest Im not convinced it hasnt been edited or deleted.

However if you did not say it, I apologize for saying you did, I should have searched before posting. Still, you do say its complex...

Really? The Quran says that it is simple.

“Verily, We have made This Quran easy in the tongue, in order that they may give heed. “

Khaled · Nov 17, 2005

Rukas said:

actually, even though i think impaling is just a form of cruxificxion, none of this matters because you can't prove it did not exist. You're saying there was no evidence that crucifixion existed in Ancient Egypt, but it doesn't mean it's not true. You want to prove It's an error, Prove it didn't exist. Or else, you might just as well try to dismiss the Quran and the Bible by saying there are no records that Adam actually existed.

also, just checked it, in Arabic, Crucified can just mean displayed on a stick as a punishment.

God is outside the concept of time, The Quran says that judgement day will seem like 50000 years for some people, just to stress the importance of that day. Other days will seem like 1000 years for some. This will just explain how people will feel at one points. People who are suffering feel time is passing by very slowly. Joyfull people feel time passing by very quickly. Saying that a day will seem like 50,000 years is just to show how much people might suffer at judgement day.

God created heaven first, and the whole world in 6 days. (again, not litterally 6 days as a human concept, this s actually where 1 day might seem like a 1000 years for humans i think)). Theres nothing about the world created in 8 days.
After creating the whole world, God adjusted the heavens into 7 skies, which doesn't actually means 7 atmospheric depressions above your head. There are any explanations as for what those 7 skies stand for, no need to get into this now.

relativity... there's nothing wrong with saying that the sun turns around the earth, The Quran doesn't say that the earth is fixed. Basic pysics, if the earth is your reference, the sun does turn around it. If the sun is the reference, the earth turns around it.

God is beyond the limitations of space, higher skies don't mean that they are more miles away than lower skies. (your arguments are starting to get ridiculous, even Bin Laden doesn't read the Quran that literally)

One reason why the Quran is so credible is because it was written in such an an advanced and beautifull way that the prophet himself (who couldn't read nor write) could not have come up with it. A lot of non believers at the time accused the prophet of being just a poet. The Quran stresses the fact that its not poetry to make sure people don't mistake and dismiss some contents as just estethic parts without any deeper meaning.

TG1 Ghetto One · Nov 17, 2005

Im lookin at this from a neutral point of view and i feel rukas has more than proved facts that quran has faults in its teachings, i respect that the believers have stood true to there faiths as that was obviously going to happen as strong believers but as he said he isnt tryin to say the quaran is fake or nothin like that he jus sayin it aint perfect alot of religions have faults in them we all know that sometimes ya gotta accept the facts that have been given man

Jurhum · Nov 17, 2005

Rukas said:

To understand the Quraan, we must refer to the Arabic text and not the transalation.

Verse 41:9 in Arabic

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

Verse 41:10 in Arabic

And, He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

The “and” is a vital key word. Plus, the word used for nourishment in the original text is a possession of Earth. Therefore, the creation of the Earth and the Mountains with everything took four days.

Verse 41:11

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
Verse 41:12

So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.

There is no where in the other verses aside from verse 41:10 which is part of 41:9 that uses the word and (و) in Arabic. The “and” word is a connection between the two. Meaning, God created the earth and its properties in two days.

I asked you to point out these verses so I know what to reply to. I can't just randomly choose quotes from the Quraan. I want to reply to the exact thing you are asking about.

I think it was Khaled who said that.

On the tongue. Anyone can read the Quraan. I am not saying it's hard to read. I'm saying the termonolgy that the Quraan uses is very complex.

Rukas · Nov 17, 2005

^^ I cant read Arabic so cant argue with what you said.

Oh, and it says IN the tounge, as in, easy in the language and easy to understand so people may pay attention (take heed).

Khaled · Nov 17, 2005

Rukas said:

Quran easy to understand??? please!!! arabic is my first language, and i still find it very difficult to understand even the most obvious passages.
Muslims today learn the Quran, they don't read it, because few people can really understand all the termilology, and even the style.

Rukas · Nov 17, 2005

Khaled said:

So why does the Quran say it is easy to understand then?

Khaled · Nov 17, 2005

It doesn't say that

the Quran was dictated by God to the prophet. This sentence is adressed specifically to the prophet, not the muslims.

basically, God is telling the prophet that he made the Quran simple to SAY (not understand, nor read) so that the prophet may spread its message

Devious · Nov 17, 2005

Jamie, the one thing you have to remember about almost all religions and their holy books, be it the Qu'ran, the Bible, or whatever. Scriptures will always be open to interpretation. People read the Qu'ran and take whatever they want from it. Some people (The majority of Muslims) take from the good of the book, while some people read the war part and take it quite literally and not as it is meant to be. It's the same way with the Bible. So many Christians have different interpretations of what is written, which is why America and other predominantly Christian countries are so divided on issues of homosexuality and abortion. It all really comes down to your personal interpretation of these books. Plus, some people are just fucking crazy and will use any excuse to kill innocent people.

Jacob · Nov 17, 2005

Rukas said:

And here's the problem: if God meant for the Quran to be his final and perfect message to man, and it's accepted as the word of God, then can Muslims admit that the text has inaccuracies without giving up their faith? Would the Five Pillars and the deity concept still have any significance?

Christians accept that The Bible was written by men, but many Muslims are told from birth that The Quran is literally Allah's word; and by definition, perfection.

hussain4891 · Nov 17, 2005

Rukas said:

The beginning of your quote contains an ad hominem logical fallacy as you are attempting to discredit the arguments presented in the Islamic-Awareness article solely because the authors are Muslims! As for evidence, all evidence used was non-Qur'anic evidence! Biblical encyclopedias were cited which established the definition of crucifixion. Thus, based on Biblical dictionaries such as the New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testamnet words, Anchor Bible Dictionary, Oxford Companion to the Bible, etc. The conclusion on crucifixion is as follows:

Crucifixion is the act of nailing, binding or impaling a living victim or sometimes a dead person to a cross, stake or a tree, whether for executing the body or for exposing the corpse. Crucifixion was intended to serve as both a severe punishment and a frightful deterrent to others. It was unanimously considered the most horrible form of death. The procedure of crucifixion was subject to wide variation according to the whim of the executioner, but victims were often executed by being impaled on a stake.

The cross (Greek stauros; Latin crux) was originally a single upright stake or post upon which the victim was either tied, nailed or impaled. This simple cross was later modified when horizontal crossbeams of various types were added. Scholars are not certain when a crossbeam was added to the simple stake, but even in the Roman period the cross would at times only consist of a single vertical stake.

From ancient Greek and Roman writers (such as Herodotus and Seneca) we learn of several forms of crucifixion. Some forms being impalement rather than what we would today describe as crucifixion.[17] In many cases, especially during the Roman period, the execution stake became a vertical pole with a horizontal crossbar placed at some point, and although the period of time at which this happened is uncertain, what is known is that this simple impalement became known as crucifixion. Whether the victim was tied, nailed or impaled to the stake, the same Greek words were still used to described the procedure.

Although in New Testament usage the Greek word stauros (cross) is said to refer to a crossbeam, the term actually has a much wider application, being used to refer to both a single stake and a crossbeam. The four most popular representations of the cross are: (i) crux simplex |, a "single piece without transom"; (ii) crux decussata X, or St. Andrew's cross; (iii) crux commissa T, or St. Anthony's cross; and (iv) crux immisaa or Latin cross upon which Jesus was allegedly crucified.[18]

A primitive form of crucifixion on trees had long been in use, and such a tree was also known as a cross (crux). Different ideas also prevailed concerning the material form of the cross, and it seems that the word had been frequently used in a broad sense. The Latin word crux was applied to the simple pole, and indicated directly the nature and purpose of this instrument, being derived from the verb crucio, "to torment", "to torture." The practice of crucifixion was finally abolished in 337 by Constantine I out of respect for Jesus Christ, whom he believed died on the cross.

You've just shown that you were unable to refute the explanations and decided instead to simply throw more allegations! As for Mary and the Holy Spirit, nowhere does the Qur'an say that the two are the same if that is indeed what you are implying.

You proceed to cite old alleged claims of internal contradictions which were debunked long ago on the following sites:

http://understanding-islam.com/related/questionsarticles.asp?sscatid=89

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/quranerr.htm

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal/alleged_contradictions

Refuted Here: http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/The_Number_of_Days_Taken_to_Create_the_Universe/

Refuted Here: http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal/On_The_Length_of_Days

Refuted here: http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Which_was_Created_first,_the_Heavens_or_the_Earth/

Refuted here: http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/zul-qarnain.html

http://faithfreedom.com/anti_islamic_claims/zulqarnain.html

Please cite the verses and you will find that the Qur'an makes no such claim.

The atmosphere of the earth is a canopy composed of gaseous matter which prevent harmful radiation from striking the earth.

No, the Qur'an says that it is not held by visible supports. As we know, atmospheric pressure does act as a supportive force.

Why don't you read what a Professor in Geology from the University of California has written about it?

http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/09/article13.shtml

Please quote specific verses.

Nonsense. The Qur'an says no such thing.

Do night and day merge? Yes. Are the sun and moon both governed by set laws? Yes. Do they both have orbits? Yes. Then we should have no problem with these verses. Your claim that the Qur'an says that the sun goes around the earth was a blatant LIE.

There are many misquoted verses on the subject of violence and fighting in the Qur'an. All of them, without exception, are explained here:

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted

How does the above verse necessitate the infallibility of translations?! Easy in tongue can mean a number of things, one being the arabic recitation and memorization of the Qur'an.

Rukas · Nov 17, 2005

^^ Ill get back to you tommorow, finishing up an assignment now. Ill just quickly say, the Sun doesnt have an orbit in relation to the earth, we orbit around the sun, the Quran suggests otherwise.

Jacob · Nov 17, 2005

Relativity tells us that the phrase "revolves around" is relative to the frame of reference. It's just as accurate to say that the Sun revolves around the Earth, because there is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference. Of course, I think that the math is easier if you assume that the heaviest body is at the center (this is sort of an Ockham 's Razor thing), and I doubt you can find an accomplished physicist who doesn't hold the view that Earth revolves around the Sun. I also don't think that it's accurate to say that the Earth is the center of the universe/galaxy/solar system for the same "absolute frame of reference" reason.

In summary, I doubt that Einstein would tell us that it's technically accurate to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun, or vice versa; however, I suspect that Einstein did believe that the Earth revolved around the Sun.

I'm too drunk to be thinking this abstractly...

not really ken · Nov 18, 2005

Rukas said:

The Quran nowhere says that the sun has an orbit in relation to the earth.

Quran said:

[highlight]Is it true that Sun also revolves around the Earth? If yes, apart from convenience, is there another reason why we use the Solar-centered coordinate system ?[/highlight]

answer said:

the sun is 'running its own course' but not revolving around the Earth nor does it say in the Quran that the sun revolves around the Earth
"To complete one revolution on its own axis, the galaxy and the sun take roughly 250 million years. The sun travels roughly 150 miles per second in the completion of this" this is the orbital movement or the 'floating on its course' the Quran could be referring to, the laws that the sun is subjected to. Maybe or maybe not, but nowhere does it say that the sun revolves around the earth.

Quran said:

The moon everybody knows spins on it's own axis. or swims smoothly on it self. And modern science confirms that: "To complete one revolution on its own axis, the galaxy and the sun take roughly 250 million years. The sun travels roughly 150 miles per second in the completion of this"

hussain4891 · Nov 18, 2005

Rukas said:

The Qur'an never says that the sun orbits around the earth. But it does say what astronomers have confirmed - that the sun, as well as our entire solar system, is in orbit around the center of the galaxy, so the Qur'an is correct when it says that the sun runs on a fixed course.

As for the sun's orbit in relation to the earth, even an idiot knows that gravitational force acts both ways between two bodies. So yes the sun also has an orbit in relation to the earth, it is called the wobble effect. Do your homework before making such absurd claims.

Illuminattile · Nov 18, 2005

hussain's link said:

Hang on, it takes 1,000 years for God to send down his affairs to earth? Ignoring the fact that God is GOD, and should be able to do everything instantaneously, how could he have possibly sent the Qu'ran down in just 22 years?

Jokerman · Nov 18, 2005

There are no errors in the Qur'an because there are no facts in the Qur'an.

So, really, both sides are right and wrong at the same time. Just think about it. The Qur'an is not a book of science; it's not a book of history; it's not a book of astronomy; it's not a book of math; it's not a cookbook; it's not a book on the history of cruci-fiction or non-fiction; and etc. That's not the intentions of it. So there's no point in holding anything in it up to those standards. Just as there's no point in defending things in it by those standards. To even say there are facts in the Qur'an is to reduce it to a mere textbook. And to say there are errors in it is to misunderstand it.

I think the Qur'an is profoundly true, but not factual. This doesn't take anything away from it. It's true as metaphorical or symbolic narrative.

Buddhists often speak of the teaching of the Buddha as "a finger pointing to the moon." The metaphor helps guard against the mistake of thinking that being a Buddhist means believing in Buddhist teaching--that is, believing in the finger. As the metaphor implies, one is to see (and pay attention to) that to which the finger points.

To apply the metaphor to the Qur'an, the Qur'an is like a finger pointing to the moon. Muslims sometimes make the mistake of thinking that being Muslim is about believing in the finger rather than seeing the Muslim life as a relationship to that which the finger points.

To use another metaphor, the Qur'an is like a lens. There's a crucial difference between believing in the lens and using the lens as a way of seeing that which is beyond the lens.

Zero Cool · Nov 19, 2005

Jokerman · Nov 20, 2005

Zero Cool said:

All your life? How did you know I was gonna write it?

S O F I · Nov 20, 2005

Quoting the Sopranos now, are we?

Errors in the Quran

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