Rukas said:
Well what about this:
The Quran says that there was crucifixions during the time of Pharaoh. This is wrong, as crucifixions are Roman tradition. So the date is off by about 1000-1500 years (cant remember exact dates, irrelevant really).
This claim is utterly destroyed by the following article
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html re-written only a month ago, which trashes this polemic with ancient egyptian hieroglyphics demonstrating that crucifixion was practiced amongst ancient egyptians.
Well alright, that could maybe be explained some how? Right? Hmm... How about this:
The Quran says that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Moses. Mary is obviously not Moses' sister, she was alive 1500 years later.
False. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Moses. Rather, the people address Mary as 'sister of Aaron' at one point. Whether this is a co-incidence or a phrase symbolic of her noble lineage, etc. it really doesn't matter. Nowhere does the Qur'an actually say that the two Mary's are the same individual.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/mary.html
I am sure there are others. Like who exactly wrote the Quran? Was it Allah? The Holy Spirit? Or Angels? The Quran mentions all three.
Nonsense
The Quran says Christians believe God has sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus, they dont.
Although the Qur'an doesn't say that, it is true that this is what the Bible actually says. Dr. Ali Ataie relates his conversation with a Christian:
He said, “Jesus is the only begotten son of God.” I asked him, “When you say ‘begotten,' what do you mean?” He responded, “Mary was a virgin and when the Holy Spirit came upon her, she became pregnant with God's Son.” I sharply retorted, “What do you mean? Are you saying that God had sex?!” -- “No!” he said. “Jesus is begotten in the sense that he is unique.”
“Is Adam begotten?” I asked. “No, he was created. Jesus is the uncreated Son of God, begotten not made.”
I followed up, “HOW was he begotten and how does it differ from how Adam was made?”
My question seemed to confuse him. These Christian word games have been keeping the Muslims at bay for far too long. It's time to confront the irrational dogmatism of our Christian friends by weeding through their fanciful semantics and demanding clear answers. Now you be the judge…
Here are the verses from the Gospels of Matthew and Luke:
Matthew:
NKJV (New King James Version): "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." - Matt 1:18
Comment: Came together to do what? To play Yatzee? NO! This is a SEXUAL reference. It means before they came together “as one flesh (Genesis 2:24)” as husband and wife.
NLT (New Living Translation, 1996): "Now this is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But while she was still a virgin, she became PREGNANT by the Holy Spirit."
Comment: The Holy Spirit who is the third person of God (according to Christians) got Mary "pregnant." -- Not MY word. This is from the NLT verbatim.
NKJV: "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."- Matt 1:20
Comment: The Holy Ghost (God Almighty) "conceived" Jesus.
Luke:
NKJV: "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?” -
Luke 1:34
Comment: Know not a man in what way? -- Physically, sexually.
NKJV: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." - Luke 1:35
NASB (New American Standard Bible, 1995): "The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for THAT REASON the holy Child shall be called the Son of God."
Comment: Jesus is called the "Son of God" BECAUSE the Holy Spirit came upon and overshadowed Mary ("for that reason" and for that reason only).
Analysis:
Let's look again at the above verses but with a slight change. Let's say that Scott and Amy are to be married. What is the role of Steve in this relationship?
"Now this is how John Smith was born. His mother, Amy, was engaged to be married to Scott. But while she was still a virgin, she became PREGNANT by Steve Smith."
"But while he (Scott) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Scott, fear not to take unto thee Amy thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of Steve Smith."
Luke:
"Then said Amy unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not Scott (sexually)?" - Luke 1:34
"The angel answered and said to her, "Steve Smith will come upon you, and the power of the Steve will overshadow you; and for THAT REASON the Child shall be called the Son of Steve."
Final Analysis:
If I present this to an impartial and objective person, where do you think his common sense will lead him? Just because Christians today have revamped their dogma regarding the virgin birth and now call it a "spiritual" or "metaphorical" event--which is a lot more palatable for missionary purposes--does not hide the FACT that the earliest of Christian communities, books, Church Fathers, and Creeds ALL subscribed to the notion that Jesus was the literal (physically begotten) Son of God and that Mary was made "pregnant" by God who "conceived" a Son.
"Neo-Christianity" is not what the Qur'an is refuting. The Qur'an is refuting what the Christian Creeds are actually saying, that is ORTHODOX belief. To say that Jesus is "spiritually" the Son of God is quite UNorthodox. The Church of Scotland in the early 90's stated that Christians need not believe in the Virgin Birth! Do Christians believe this is an orthodox position? By the same token, the BILLIONS of Christians who lived in the past would call the modern evangelical suggestion that Jesus is “spiritually” the Son of God blasphemy.
The preface of the NKJV of the Bible reads:
“Dynamic equivalence, a recent procedure in Bible translation, commonly results in paraphrasing where a more literal rendering is needed to reflect a specific and vital sense. For example, references to Christ in some versions of John 3:16, as ‘only Son' or ‘one and only Son,' are doubtless dynamic equivalents of sorts. However, they are not actual equivalents of the precisely LITERAL ‘only begotten Son,' especially in consideration of the historic Nicene statement concerning the person of Christ, ‘begotten, not made,' which is a CRUCIAL Christian doctrine.”
Ask your Christian buddy: What does “begotten not made” mean if it is meant to be “spiritual” or metaphorical? Are you saying that these Christian scholars and revisers of the NKJV are wrong? Can I be “begotten not made” of God? If not, why? Why isn't Adam “begotten not made?” -- He did not have a father OR a mother.
Christians propagandists like Norman Geisler and Abdul Saleeb (the slave of the cross) are telling Muslims to think of Jesus as the “ibn” of God, like “ibnus-sabeel,” the son of the road. This is their attempt to infiltrate the Muslim mentality with the claim that the divine Sonship of Christ is purely metaphorical. However, the QUR'AN says that Christians believe that Jesus is the “walad” of God, literally the Son of God. The preface of the NKJV also calls Jesus the “walad,” begotten (literal) son of God.
The Qur'an laid this Paulist blasphemy to rest over fourteen centuries ago:
“They say: God Most Gracious has begotten a son!
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin…
That they should invoke a son for God Most Gracious.
For it is not consonant with the majesty of God Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God Most Gracious as a servant.” - Surah Maryam 19:88-93.
Memorize these verses in English and Arabic and use them to shoot down the Paulist delusions of divine Sonship.
The Quran says that Christians believe the Holy Trinity is the Father, The Mother and The Son, they dont.
Again from Dr. Ali Ataie:
What the Trinity is not
Christians charge the Prophet Muhammad as
one who denounced an incorrect concept of the Christian
Trinity because Allah has said: “And behold! Allah will
say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of
Allah?’ He will say: ‘Glory to Thee! never could I say
what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou
wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in
my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou
knowest in full all that is hidden’” (Qur’an 5:116).
Christian authors claim that the Prophet believed the
Trinity to consist of somewhat of a “holy family,”
Father, Son, and Mother. Looking at the verse a little
closer, however, reveals that this assertion is completely
incorrect and unfounded. The words “in derogation of
Allah” translated from the Arabic “min du-nillah,” does
not correspond to a sense that complements, but rather
antagonizes. In essence God is asking Jesus if he ever
told his followers that he or his mother were gods other
than Allah. Certainly no Christian will ever concede that
there are three gods, but only one God in three persons.
This verse has nothing to do with the Trinity; it is
dealing with the deification of Jesus and Mary.
Was Mary ever deified though? There were
actually sects of Christianity at the time of Muhammad
called the Miriamites and Choloridians who worshipped
Mary as a mother-goddess much like the cult of Isis did
in Greco-Roman times. Also, mention the word
“Catholic” and you will see your born-again accuser
blush. The Catholic will answer that he only uses Mary
as an intermediary, not as an object of worship. Explain
to him the Muslim concept of shirk, or false deification.
According to Islam, worship is a direct contact between
the worshipper and God. Invoking God through a creature,
no matter how saintly he or she might have
been, would make us no better than the Israelites and
their golden calf or the Quraysh with their stone statues.
Paul tells us: “Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible
God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to
birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their
own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth
of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the
creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.
Amen” (Romans 1:22-25). Although Paul is actually
offering a cause of the rampant homosexuality in Roman
culture, he unwittingly lets the cat out of the bag.
Worshipping man and serving him, which is exactly
what Christians intend with Jesus, is foolish behavior. If
you say, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb Jesus. Hail Mary, mother of God...,” you
are a fool! – Not my word, but Paul’s.
Keep these words of Paul in mind: “changed the
glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to
corruptible man.” Now listen to what he says about
Jesus in Colossians 1:15: “He (Christ, a man) is the
image of the invisible God.” Can you say hypocrisy? (Ataie, In Defense of Islam, pp. 44-45)
The Quran says that the Bible says Prayer should be towards Jerusalem, it doesnt.
Citation please.
The Quran says that Christians believe the Messiah is Allah, they dont.
'Allah' is the arabic word for God. Any Christian will tell you that Jesus is God.
