what the hell is with all the anti islamic setiment lately? I could care less what this woman thinks, its her opinion an lacing her opinion as fact is like patting Osama Bin Laden on the back for his outrageous beliefs, which im sure some of you will say is no comparison, whatever. If your an athiest (sp) fine so be it, no one espcially a muslim is trying to change your belief that a billion years ago ya swung from trees or crawled outa the swamp as some sluge so be it.Muslims are not in the buisness of soul saving thats christainity, an before i get the "your off subject" comment maybe i am but im tired of seeing this shit on the board day after day, week after week. You dont agree with us fine shut the fuck up carry on with your life, log the hell off the computer once in awhile an worry about getting some rep in the real world rather then worrying about your rep or "im a bad ass" persona some of ya'll try an maintain on TB. This is isnt directed at anyone specific, but mearly a rant from someone who's been here a hell of a lot longer then my join date states. Now if we muslims or Islam is so horrible explain to me why during the plagues of Europe when some "christains" or whatever were blaming the jews for the pestilence, we the horrible muslims gave them protection, or during the crusades when not only muslims were being slaughtered but Jews as well, we once again we gave them protection, or during the spainsh conquest we once again gave protection! Some of ya'lls history interputetation (sp) is a clear indicator of how jacked up an worthless the education system has become, some of the rehtoric i have seen spewed on here by some members is reminensent of the 3rd riech's teachings. Pitch a fit if someone speaks on homosexuality but its ok to bash Islam an Muslims, Islam is not just a religeon for us, its a way of life, if do you do not agree with that way of life, fine, you are definately entitled to your opinion, but often opinions can be confused with bigotry, an so called "facts" propaganda that would make Joseph Georbles proud. I Believe Teck Neeks comments "generalizing" certain people were more of an example to try an show some of you how ignorant you truly sound, but ignorance seems too be bliss in WOW an other area's of this board. All in all just stop shut the hell up if you have nothing intellgent to say or somthing that would benifit the discussion. Or better yet go an read the Quran in its entirety before you try an "school" us muslims on our teachings. Im seriously considering leaving this board, the uprise in ignorance is appalling, an i know most of you could care less thats fine i really dont care, most of the time i think im taken for an idoit an thats fine too i could care less what anyone thinks, you dont know me personally an i dont know a one of you personally, i can guarentee im not an idoit, im currently in law school, with great grades, i am quite knowledgeable on some things, an yes i knwo i have horrible spelling! anyway thats my rant im done. Peace
Arab-American woman speaks out on the clash of civilizations
- Thread starter Jokerman
- Start date
No one has talked about Islam in the depth you've showed. I'm not going to say "your off subject", but you persisted in the manner as a person who would "ignore a question". By trying to justify Islam so immediately, it shows you have not thoughtfully read anyone's senseful comments, which then jumps back to no one has talked about Islam in that depth.
You've also showed that your only looking to hear what you want to hear. If it does not somehow fit in to Islam's favor, then the person is a bigot.
And you are an idiot, if you think great grades is going to make you a good lawyer and being justified to speak this way. Having an unthoughtful bias mentality like this already shows that you're going to be a bad lawyer.
You've also showed that your only looking to hear what you want to hear. If it does not somehow fit in to Islam's favor, then the person is a bigot.
And you are an idiot, if you think great grades is going to make you a good lawyer and being justified to speak this way. Having an unthoughtful bias mentality like this already shows that you're going to be a bad lawyer.
when did i say "great grades would make me a great lawyer"??? no where once again it is you my friend who have #1 not paid attention. #2 how am i showing bias? and Islam has not been brought up indepth in this thread?????? Wow you cant be serious ok first please step away from the computer two place index finger an middle finger on your wrist 3 check for pulse. This entire thread has been nothing BUT an argument about Islam! And my rant was not only about this thread but the numerous anti islamic threads that have surfaced in the past few days an weeks. Next you have no idea what type a lawyer i will be so dont even try to be a judge of that, my point in bringing up my grades was anybody can go to law school given they do well in pre law, an have good test results on the LSAT, my point was if i wasnt cohearent or somewhat intellegent i dont believe i would do so well, law school isnt easy, anyway doesnt matter, you didnt get the point an thats fine, i just dont see how you could say that Islam wasnt brought up in depth as much as i brought it up in my post thats not true this entire discussion has been nothing but how "horrible" islam is an its "evil" deeds, an like i said my rant wasnt just about this post its been numerous. anyway if you'll please excuse me this "idiot" has studying to do. Thank You an have a nice day
Lol, You've done sooo much to convince me and the rest of that. Good job, that's about as believable and absurd as an army of Ants forming to discuss ways to rule the world. I respect your opinion but what you wrote above is no more than just that with no basis in fact. Go ahead conduct a world wide poll and ask them who is more likely to rule the world and whos making it more obvious, Islam or the U.S and its puppies. the Latter would win in a Landslide.
Actually its more like the other way around, Most Muslims are devout and the rest aren't
Pre 1948? absolutely not, 1948-present Israel yes but not among the majority of Muslims. Many Westerners looked at Muslims in disgust and committed some of the most heinous crimes against them and some still do post 911, so really whats your point? you think only Muslims feel that way about Jews? that kind of sentiment is present in the U.S and the west just as much as it is in the Islamic world. Ask the christians of Palestine how they feel about israelis and jews all together for making their daily lives a living hell. We also know how Jews feel about Muslims, they just love us dont they? they're welcoming us with arms wide open in Israel.
Where did you dig this up from? thats new to me
Muslim: walking and then all of the sudden, Hey! you look jewish to me, come pass me on my left side so i can look down on you.
Ok
Edit: Lol thanks Jokerman, I really dont care anyways, if i did id live on these boards and kiss ass for them like most users do on here
Actually its more like the other way around, Most Muslims are devout and the rest aren't
Pre 1948? absolutely not, 1948-present Israel yes but not among the majority of Muslims. Many Westerners looked at Muslims in disgust and committed some of the most heinous crimes against them and some still do post 911, so really whats your point? you think only Muslims feel that way about Jews? that kind of sentiment is present in the U.S and the west just as much as it is in the Islamic world. Ask the christians of Palestine how they feel about israelis and jews all together for making their daily lives a living hell. We also know how Jews feel about Muslims, they just love us dont they? they're welcoming us with arms wide open in Israel.
Where did you dig this up from? thats new to me
Muslim: walking and then all of the sudden, Hey! you look jewish to me, come pass me on my left side so i can look down on you.
Ok
Edit: Lol thanks Jokerman, I really dont care anyways, if i did id live on these boards and kiss ass for them like most users do on here
:thumb:
But anyway, a lot of atheists (and everyone) should read Karen Armstrong's "The Spiral Staircase."
Then read her "Muhammed, a Biography of the Prophet" and "Islam, a Short History."
Because I think it's sad that you try to distort what Muhammed taught, what Islam is, and what it does for people today.
But anyway, a lot of atheists (and everyone) should read Karen Armstrong's "The Spiral Staircase."
Then read her "Muhammed, a Biography of the Prophet" and "Islam, a Short History."
Because I think it's sad that you try to distort what Muhammed taught, what Islam is, and what it does for people today.
So blinded by your Islamophobia it seems you can't comprehend what they have tried to explain to you over and over again. For once, focus and concentrate.
Who told you that you couldn't survive without Islam? And to disregard Islam as not a vital religion to the world is simply idiotic.
The Islamic population exceeds 1.6 billion and is on the rise. The few radicals who are motivated by politics and who are fed by the Allied oppression of Muslims world wide, get the full attention of the media. So comes the propaganda that associates Islam with terrorism. Unfortunately, feeble minded people take the media's word as godly.
Secondly, there are Muslims who go against the teachings of Islam. That doesn't justify you or anyone else to claim Islam isn't peaceful.
Idiocy is bless sometimes, though. Isn't it?
Who told you that you couldn't survive without Islam? And to disregard Islam as not a vital religion to the world is simply idiotic.
The Islamic population exceeds 1.6 billion and is on the rise. The few radicals who are motivated by politics and who are fed by the Allied oppression of Muslims world wide, get the full attention of the media. So comes the propaganda that associates Islam with terrorism. Unfortunately, feeble minded people take the media's word as godly.
Secondly, there are Muslims who go against the teachings of Islam. That doesn't justify you or anyone else to claim Islam isn't peaceful.
Idiocy is bless sometimes, though. Isn't it?
First i would like to say my so called islamaphobia wasnt born but brought to me by followers of your faith who want to kill innocent people in my country , nothing else my friend i didnt wake up and think i hate muslims and islam , and to say im an idiot because i disregard what people try and tell me Islam brings to the world is wrong , apart from yourself and maybe shahin all i get told is how its the west fault that these bad things happen in the world when clearly when discusing religion its what muslims bring to the world that is causing the problems we discuss .
Everything that we discus is happening , its not propaganda , shit you guys are fighting amoungst yourselves for fucks sake , now that could be called idiocy imo , maybe those guys should focus and concentrate and follow this peaceful religion we keep getting told about but im sure mr teek neex will blame the west for that one aswell , to be fair to you personaly you explain yourself well and in an adult manner but im sorry my opinions right or wrong are brought to me by how members of your religion behave not by cnn propaganda , that is unless they are paying people to blow up trains.
I personaly think a world without religion and would be a far better place but thats my opinion and certinaly feel a lot of the problems in the world revolve around religion and its beliefs , but then im not blowing people up or be-heading people to put my point across am I ? but like i have said before those who want to follow religion - great but i do not like people killing in the name of it and then blaming others because of it - Thats what i call idiocy my friend and they certinaly have no right to do this , unfortunatly many muslims do not want to hear there religion questioned regardless if those who follow it use its name for evil purposes , they seem feeble minded imo .
Everything that we discus is happening , its not propaganda , shit you guys are fighting amoungst yourselves for fucks sake , now that could be called idiocy imo , maybe those guys should focus and concentrate and follow this peaceful religion we keep getting told about but im sure mr teek neex will blame the west for that one aswell , to be fair to you personaly you explain yourself well and in an adult manner but im sorry my opinions right or wrong are brought to me by how members of your religion behave not by cnn propaganda , that is unless they are paying people to blow up trains.
I personaly think a world without religion and would be a far better place but thats my opinion and certinaly feel a lot of the problems in the world revolve around religion and its beliefs , but then im not blowing people up or be-heading people to put my point across am I ? but like i have said before those who want to follow religion - great but i do not like people killing in the name of it and then blaming others because of it - Thats what i call idiocy my friend and they certinaly have no right to do this , unfortunatly many muslims do not want to hear there religion questioned regardless if those who follow it use its name for evil purposes , they seem feeble minded imo .
I want you to ask yourself one question. Why are these people "killing innocent people in my country." To put the blame on one side only will get us no where. We have to understand that these "Muslim" fanatics are the breed of years and years of aggression by the west against Muslims. To say that has nothing to do with it is insanely naive on anyone's behalf.
The media plays a great roll in shaping public opinion. The way media portrays Islam most of the time is greatly distorted. There is an agenda behind each news station out there. There are people with goals and people behind those people that pressure some stations to paint a negative image against Muslims. It's how they display the news to the public. It's how they hide some facts and only show what they want to show.
We do fight amongst ourselves. But, it's mostly due to ignorant leaders. It's also due to negative sentiment that has been there for a long time. We have our problems between us. I can't deny that. But, what I have been refusing to accept is to blame Islam for human error. I will always feel that way.
You believe world without religion is much better. I believe to each his own religion and let me have my own. I am not asking more than that. Just leave my religion alone. That's as simple as it gets.
A few other questions arise from your comment that you don't blow yourself up or behead people. Does the army of the UK represent the people or not? Do you want me to show you the atrocities the Allied forces have committed in the name of freedom and liberation.
Those exact terrorists you condemn feed off by all the things your armies are committing daily in Iraq, Afghanistan and else where.
The media plays a great roll in shaping public opinion. The way media portrays Islam most of the time is greatly distorted. There is an agenda behind each news station out there. There are people with goals and people behind those people that pressure some stations to paint a negative image against Muslims. It's how they display the news to the public. It's how they hide some facts and only show what they want to show.
We do fight amongst ourselves. But, it's mostly due to ignorant leaders. It's also due to negative sentiment that has been there for a long time. We have our problems between us. I can't deny that. But, what I have been refusing to accept is to blame Islam for human error. I will always feel that way.
You believe world without religion is much better. I believe to each his own religion and let me have my own. I am not asking more than that. Just leave my religion alone. That's as simple as it gets.
A few other questions arise from your comment that you don't blow yourself up or behead people. Does the army of the UK represent the people or not? Do you want me to show you the atrocities the Allied forces have committed in the name of freedom and liberation.
Those exact terrorists you condemn feed off by all the things your armies are committing daily in Iraq, Afghanistan and else where.
in my opinion people like Jamie think way too negative about islam or muslims in general and people like Teek way too positive. i think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
i've heard about this story today (sorry but couldnt find an english article. maybe someone else can):
http://portale.web.de/Schlagzeilen/Afghanistan/msg/6110839/
to sum it up:
its about the 40 year-old Abdul Rahman who lived for 9 years in germany. recently he went back to afghanistan to look after the child custody for his two daughters who are living in afghanistan. he converted from islam to christianity and now he is facing the death-penalty.
i've heard about this story today (sorry but couldnt find an english article. maybe someone else can):
http://portale.web.de/Schlagzeilen/Afghanistan/msg/6110839/
to sum it up:
its about the 40 year-old Abdul Rahman who lived for 9 years in germany. recently he went back to afghanistan to look after the child custody for his two daughters who are living in afghanistan. he converted from islam to christianity and now he is facing the death-penalty.
^ good post ^
"
Dem 40-jährigen Abdul Rahman, der neun Jahre lang in Deutschland lebte, droht die Todesstrafe, weil er zum Christentum übergetreten ist. Nach den strengen Regeln der islamischen Rechtsprechung, der Scharia, wird dies als Verbrechen bewertet und mit dem Tod bestraft. Rahman kehrte aus Deutschland in seine Heimat zurück, um sich um das Sorgerecht für seine beiden bei den Großeltern lebenden Töchter zu bemühen."
For the 40yr old Ahbul Rahman, who lived in Germany for nine years, looms the death penalty because he converted to Christianity. Following the strict rule of Islamic law, the Sharia, this is seen as a crime and is punishable by death. Rahman returned to Afghanistan from Germany to take care for his both daughters what live with their grandparents.
Now, apparently there are a whole bunch of characters in Islamic culture that aren't so freethinking, huh.
But I bet there still is no problem with Islam of course. Woe befell the man that dares to speak foul of your most holy religion.
Found some other links:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2095003,00.html
"The Attorney General is emphasising he should be hung. It is a crime to convert to Christianity from Islam. He is teasing and insulating his family by converting," Judge Alhaj Ansarullah Mawlawy Zada, who will be trying his case, told The Times.
"He was a Muslim for 25 years more than he has been a Christian. We will request him to become a Muslim again. In your country two women can marry I think that is very strange. In this country we have the perfect constitution, it is Islamic law and it is illegal to be a Christian and it should be punished," said the judge."
*sighs*
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004805.htm (this story is oil on her fire of course. she makes some decent points though)
EDIT: I'm adding this disclaimer to make people aware that nor me nor me beReal posted this just for an attack on Islam. We don't get hard penises out of this, what my (and prolly B's) point is, is that there is a whole host of problems in "the Arab world" (Afghanistan in this particular case) that are directly caused by religion (Islam).
And most of the Muslims on this board take such posts as an attack on Islam, feeling immediately offended and the need to defend it all, while the point is that while your religion may be ah-okay on paper (like most religions), it's effect in practice is often heavily disputed, and it's time for muslims to accept this and, preferably, act like it. Denounce the people wanting to hang a man for converting to Christianity, instead of fussing about another percieved attack on Islam.
Now Im done.
"
Dem 40-jährigen Abdul Rahman, der neun Jahre lang in Deutschland lebte, droht die Todesstrafe, weil er zum Christentum übergetreten ist. Nach den strengen Regeln der islamischen Rechtsprechung, der Scharia, wird dies als Verbrechen bewertet und mit dem Tod bestraft. Rahman kehrte aus Deutschland in seine Heimat zurück, um sich um das Sorgerecht für seine beiden bei den Großeltern lebenden Töchter zu bemühen."
For the 40yr old Ahbul Rahman, who lived in Germany for nine years, looms the death penalty because he converted to Christianity. Following the strict rule of Islamic law, the Sharia, this is seen as a crime and is punishable by death. Rahman returned to Afghanistan from Germany to take care for his both daughters what live with their grandparents.
Now, apparently there are a whole bunch of characters in Islamic culture that aren't so freethinking, huh.
But I bet there still is no problem with Islam of course. Woe befell the man that dares to speak foul of your most holy religion.
Found some other links:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2095003,00.html
"The Attorney General is emphasising he should be hung. It is a crime to convert to Christianity from Islam. He is teasing and insulating his family by converting," Judge Alhaj Ansarullah Mawlawy Zada, who will be trying his case, told The Times.
"He was a Muslim for 25 years more than he has been a Christian. We will request him to become a Muslim again. In your country two women can marry I think that is very strange. In this country we have the perfect constitution, it is Islamic law and it is illegal to be a Christian and it should be punished," said the judge."
*sighs*
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004805.htm (this story is oil on her fire of course. she makes some decent points though)
EDIT: I'm adding this disclaimer to make people aware that nor me nor me beReal posted this just for an attack on Islam. We don't get hard penises out of this, what my (and prolly B's) point is, is that there is a whole host of problems in "the Arab world" (Afghanistan in this particular case) that are directly caused by religion (Islam).
And most of the Muslims on this board take such posts as an attack on Islam, feeling immediately offended and the need to defend it all, while the point is that while your religion may be ah-okay on paper (like most religions), it's effect in practice is often heavily disputed, and it's time for muslims to accept this and, preferably, act like it. Denounce the people wanting to hang a man for converting to Christianity, instead of fussing about another percieved attack on Islam.
Now Im done.
The man worked with an international Christian aid group since he was a little boy so i'm not surprised
But now they're saying the man maybe unfit to stand trial
Im not saying he is mentally ill, who knows only time will tell, but we all know what past and present mentally challenged individuals have claimed themselves to be, "God" "Superman" or the "Satan", we'll await the examination
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11955289/
As for the Punishment I'm not entirely sure if death is allowed for apostasy. but i am 100% sure that no WHERE in the Qur'an does it state that Muslims who convert to another religion should be put to death, however it does state the opposite, i will quote the Qur'anic verses regarding apostasy.
Qur'an chapter 4
"Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them."
This seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would NOT be possible if the person were to be executed after his or her first apostasy. I dont think a person can accept, reject accept and reject his Islamic faith if he or she were to be executed after the first time according to Islamic rule of law.
This one should be quite clear enough
Qur'an chapter 109
109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,
109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Qur'an chapter 2
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error"
Thats a pretty straight forward Qur'anic injunction that there is no compulsion in religion seems to be very much at odds with death as a punishment for apostasy.
But now they're saying the man maybe unfit to stand trial
Im not saying he is mentally ill, who knows only time will tell, but we all know what past and present mentally challenged individuals have claimed themselves to be, "God" "Superman" or the "Satan", we'll await the examination
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11955289/
As for the Punishment I'm not entirely sure if death is allowed for apostasy. but i am 100% sure that no WHERE in the Qur'an does it state that Muslims who convert to another religion should be put to death, however it does state the opposite, i will quote the Qur'anic verses regarding apostasy.
Qur'an chapter 4
"Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them."
This seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would NOT be possible if the person were to be executed after his or her first apostasy. I dont think a person can accept, reject accept and reject his Islamic faith if he or she were to be executed after the first time according to Islamic rule of law.
This one should be quite clear enough
Qur'an chapter 109
109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,
109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Qur'an chapter 2
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error"
Thats a pretty straight forward Qur'anic injunction that there is no compulsion in religion seems to be very much at odds with death as a punishment for apostasy.
It might not be literally in the Quran, but you can't deny the fact the punishment is part of the Sharia law as practiced there. Is this then not wrong and despicable? Shouldn't you denounce the Afghani government for trying to execute a convert (well, he's not going to be executed but 10 bucks say that it wasn't a final pang of mercy but rather the worldwide attention this case got)?
But the first thing you do is post Quran excerpts to prove that Islam is, of course, once again, not to blame.
The fact that the geezer was almost put to death under such laws is an inherent cultural and societal problem over there in the Middle-East. I would like to see more Arabs and/or muslims coming to grips with this and instead of trying to defend Islam all the time would just recognize the damn problem.
But the first thing you do is post Quran excerpts to prove that Islam is, of course, once again, not to blame.
The fact that the geezer was almost put to death under such laws is an inherent cultural and societal problem over there in the Middle-East. I would like to see more Arabs and/or muslims coming to grips with this and instead of trying to defend Islam all the time would just recognize the damn problem.
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