Film & TV The Dark Knight
- Thread starter Dogmatic187
- Start date
I want to jump in and say that -
the fact that everyone on the internet seems to remember Nicholson's Joker well enough to compare and criticize tells me that his Joker is still iconic like the Batman movie itself. It's just that Heath was young, hungry, ambitious actor and he gave everything he had for this role. That doesn't make the 'other' Joker less significant. They're almost two different characters in my mind.
the fact that everyone on the internet seems to remember Nicholson's Joker well enough to compare and criticize tells me that his Joker is still iconic like the Batman movie itself. It's just that Heath was young, hungry, ambitious actor and he gave everything he had for this role. That doesn't make the 'other' Joker less significant. They're almost two different characters in my mind.
this is exactly what i was trying to say. you can't compare Nicholson's Joker to Ledger's Joker because they are not the same character. they are, but they were meant to be played differently. the idea of who the Joker was and how he was played in the 2 movies are completely different, based on the differences of the directors and their visions for the respective films. and regardless of what Ledger's done, Nicholson's performance still stands the test of time. otherwise, why would we still be talking about it almost 20 years later? seriously, if you didn't like Jack as the Joker, i have to conclude you just don't like good acting performances and/or just jumping on the Ledger bandwagon. as far as i was concerned, both performances were equally great.
I loved the first Batman movie, but considering that Ledger's performance was better (regardless of how good Nicholson's was) and that these new renditions of the Batman story are WAY better than the original four in almost every possible way, the first Batman movie (the Keaton/Nicholson one) is barely worth watching.
Dark Knight > Batman Begins > Batman > Batman Returns > Batman Forever > Batman and Robin
Dark Knight > Batman Begins > Batman > Batman Returns > Batman Forever > Batman and Robin
well hey, i guess that's your opinion. i still love Burton's Batman (not the sequels tho, even Batman Returns sucked imo, the only other one with Keaton and Burton) and i also love Nolan's Batman series. i just see them as different takes on the characters. there is no question that The Dark Knight is the best Batman movie so far tho, i have to admit that. and Batman And Robin was the worst Batman movie ever made, even the 60's one with Adam West was better than that piece of shit.
No, sir.
The new series is about realism. It's more of a crime drama with comic book characters - everyone agrees with that.
As far as the first Keaton Batman goes, it's not really about realism, but style. It is still to this day iconic - the theme music and the yellow Bat logo, etc. It is still significant to this day. If you see a t-shirt with the yellow bat logo, you know where that's from, don't you?
The new series is about realism. It's more of a crime drama with comic book characters - everyone agrees with that.
As far as the first Keaton Batman goes, it's not really about realism, but style. It is still to this day iconic - the theme music and the yellow Bat logo, etc. It is still significant to this day. If you see a t-shirt with the yellow bat logo, you know where that's from, don't you?
exactly. just because a better movie comes along, that doesn't make the first one irrelevant. Burton's was more about style and flash, flair and showiness. Nolan's Batman is all about realism, making the characters more believable, much deeper and more interesting than the previous 1 or 2-dimensional characters they were portrayed as in previous films. like Salty said, it's more of a crime drama with comic book characters and elements than a comic book movie. but Burton's Batman is too iconic to dismiss.
Personally these are the Batman films I've been waiting for forever, and TDK should have been the movie we got in 1989. The 89 Batman IS a very stylistic movie, I've talked to alot of people about Batman 89 and there's alot of negativity towards it.
I believe Batman Returns is the best one out of the original four, and I could give you many reasons, but that would take a very long time and we're talking about this movie.
When it came out, there's was nothing like it before, it was dark and gritty and the Superman films had been run into the dirt, the Yello bat symbol isn't as credited as much as the GOLD bat symbol is. It's still stunning if you look at it. It was very hyped too, and people wanted to see Nicholson's Joker, the ONLY Joker they had to compaire with was Ceaser Romero's. THAT's it, and that's not much to compaire with.
Nicholson pretty much took a combo of himself and Romero and boom you got the clown Joker, who couldn't scare me if he asked me to join him in a shower.
Also Satly compairision is very much fair, it's the same as compairing remakes to the original.
I feel as though I never even have to watch the 89 Batman again, because like I stated. THIS is the movie I've wanted all my life, the Joker I wanted to see, Batman's detective skills being utilized, Gordon is no longer a fat bufoon, he and Batman have an actual agenda and do need each other to save Gotham. Alfred is given more to do and than be a guy who cooks food and carrys around a tray, you see him actually act as a father towards Bruce Wayne.
Heath Ledger's Joker, he actually scared me. If anyone in the theater laughed at him, or anything he said, including you, you missed the point. He's terrifying, he's literally a young Hannibal Lecter/Alex DeLarge
The 89 Batman is obsolete in my opinion, it's like upgrading from a VCR, skipping the DVD and going straight for the TIVO. For me, there's no going back.
I believe Batman Returns is the best one out of the original four, and I could give you many reasons, but that would take a very long time and we're talking about this movie.
When it came out, there's was nothing like it before, it was dark and gritty and the Superman films had been run into the dirt, the Yello bat symbol isn't as credited as much as the GOLD bat symbol is. It's still stunning if you look at it. It was very hyped too, and people wanted to see Nicholson's Joker, the ONLY Joker they had to compaire with was Ceaser Romero's. THAT's it, and that's not much to compaire with.
Nicholson pretty much took a combo of himself and Romero and boom you got the clown Joker, who couldn't scare me if he asked me to join him in a shower.
Also Satly compairision is very much fair, it's the same as compairing remakes to the original.
I feel as though I never even have to watch the 89 Batman again, because like I stated. THIS is the movie I've wanted all my life, the Joker I wanted to see, Batman's detective skills being utilized, Gordon is no longer a fat bufoon, he and Batman have an actual agenda and do need each other to save Gotham. Alfred is given more to do and than be a guy who cooks food and carrys around a tray, you see him actually act as a father towards Bruce Wayne.
Heath Ledger's Joker, he actually scared me. If anyone in the theater laughed at him, or anything he said, including you, you missed the point. He's terrifying, he's literally a young Hannibal Lecter/Alex DeLarge
The 89 Batman is obsolete in my opinion, it's like upgrading from a VCR, skipping the DVD and going straight for the TIVO. For me, there's no going back.
well again, that is your opinion. there is no doubt that the new series overall is better than the old one, but i don' think the old one should just be thrown in the trash like it's nothing now. but here is my question: why does the Joker have to be scary? it's not a horror movie, the 89 Batman was a comic book movie that was mainly targeted towards kids. he didn't have to be scary, just ruthless (well, comic book ruthless anyway). Tim Burton wasn't trying to give kids nightmares (like the ones i imagine the kids sitting in the row in front of me at The Dark Knight probably had that night). the new Batman series is more adult than previous ones, and are targeted for a more mature audience. hence a more mature, sadistic, scary Joker. both movies have their good points, and i don't think you should dismiss one cuz you like the other better. i personally will still watch and enjoy Burton's Batman for years to come. in fact, i think i might pop it in my DVD player and watch it now. all this talk about Jack makes me want to watch him again lol.
and forget about the comparisons and arguments, to me just Jack's line, "you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" makes the 89 Batman an iconic movie. what a great line!
and forget about the comparisons and arguments, to me just Jack's line, "you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" makes the 89 Batman an iconic movie. what a great line!
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