Hiphop is dying....

Salar

The One, The Only
#1
and it's probably the best thing that can happen to the genre right now... until some artist revolutionizes it again.
DISCUSS:

When the political activist Al Sharpton pivoted from his war against bigmouth radio man Don Imus to a war on bad-mouth gangsta rap, the instinct among older music fans was to roll their eyes and yawn. Ten years ago, another activist, C. Delores Tucker, launched a very similar campaign to clean up rap music. She focused on Time Warner (parent of TIME), whose subsidiary Interscope was home to hard-core rappers Snoop Dogg and Tupac Shakur. In 1995 Tucker succeeded in forcing Time Warner to dump Interscope.

Her victory was Pyrrhic. Interscope flourished, launching artists like 50 Cent and Eminem and distributing the posthumous recordings of Shakur. And the genre exploded across the planet, with rappers emerging everywhere from Capetown to the banlieues of Paris. In the U.S. alone, sales reached $1.8 billion.

The lesson was Capitalism 101: rap music's market strength gave its artists permission to say what they pleased. And the rappers themselves exhibited an entrepreneurial bent unlike that of musicians before them. They understood the need to market and the benefits of line extensions. Theirs was capitalism with a beat.

Today that same market is telling rappers to please shut up. While music-industry sales have plummeted, no genre has fallen harder than rap. According to the music trade publication Billboard, rap sales have dropped 44% since 2000 and declined from 13% of all music sales to 10%. Artists who were once the tent poles at rap labels are posting disappointing numbers. Jay-Z's return album, Kingdom Come, for instance, sold a gaudy 680,000 units in its first week, according to Billboard. But by the second week, its sales had declined some 80%. This year rap sales are down 33% so far.

Longtime rap fans are doing the math and coming to the same conclusions as the music's voluminous critics. In February, the filmmaker Byron Hurt released Beyond Beats and Rhymes, a documentary notable not just for its hard critique but for the fact that most of the people doing the criticizing were not dowdy church ladies but members of the hip-hop generation who deplore rap's recent fixation on the sensational.

Both rappers and music execs are clamoring for solutions. Russell Simmons recently made a tepid call for rappers to self-censor the words nigger and bitch from their albums. But most insiders believe that a debate about profanity and misogyny obscures a much deeper problem: an artistic vacuum at major labels. "The music community has to get more creative," says Steve Rifkin, CEO of SRC Records. "We have to start betting on the new and the up-and-coming for us to grow as an industry. Right now, I don't think anyone is taking chances. It's a big-business culture."

It's the ultimate irony. Since the 1980s, when Run-DMC attracted sponsorship from Adidas, the rap community has aspired to be big business. By the '90s, those aspirations had become a reality. In a 1999 cover story, TIME reported that with 81 million CDs sold, rap was officially America's top-selling music genre. The boom produced enterprises like Roc-A-Fella, which straddled fashion, music and film and in 2001 was worth $300 million. It produced moguls like No Limit's Master P and Bad Boy's Puff Daddy, each of whom in 2001 made an appearance on FORTUNE's list of the richest 40 under 40. Along the way, the music influenced everything from advertising to fashion to sports.

The growth spurt was fueled by sensationalism. Tupac Shakur shot at police, was convicted of sexual abuse and ultimately was murdered in Las Vegas. But Shakur both alive and dead has also sold more than 20 million records. Death Row Records, which released much of Shakur's material, was run by ex-con Suge Knight and dogged by rumors of money laundering. But between 1992 and 1998, the label churned out 11 multiplatinum albums. Gangsta rappers reveled in their outlaw mystique, crafting ultra-violent tales of drive-bys and stick-ups designed to shock and enthrall their primary audience--white suburban teenagers. "Hip-hop seemed dangerous; it seemed angry," says Richard Nickels, who manages the hip-hop band the Roots. "Kurt Cobain killed himself, and rock seemed weak. But then you had these black guys who came out and had guns. It was exciting to white kids."

Hip-hop now faces a generation that takes gangsta rap as just another mundane marker in the cultural scenery. "It's collapsing because they can no longer fool the white kids," says Nickels. "There's only so much redundancy anyone can take."

Artists who never jumped on the gangsta bandwagon point the finger at the boardroom. They accuse major labels of strip-mining the music, playing up its sensationalist aspects for easy sales. "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."

Of course, gangsta rap isn't a record-company invention. Indeed, hip-hop's two most celebrated icons, Shakur and Notorious B.I.G., embraced the sort of lyrical content that today has opened hip-hop to criticism. And the music companies, under assault from file-sharing and other alternative distribution channels, are hardly in a position to do R&D. "When I first signed to Tommy Boy, [the A&R person] would take us to different shows and to art museums," says Q-Tip. "There was real mentorship. Today that's largely absent, and we see the results in the music and in the aesthetic." That result is a stale product, defined by cable channels like BET, now owned by Viacom, which seems to consist primarily of gun worship and underdressed women.

During the past decade, record labels have outsourced the business of kingmaking to other artists. Established stars Dr. Dre and Eminem brought 50 Cent to Interscope. Jay-Z founded his own label, cut a distribution deal and began developing his own roster. But most established artists do little development. That leaves the possibility that hip-hop is following the same path that soul and R&B traveled when they descended into disco, which died quickly.

No longer able to peddle sensation, rap's moguls are switching tactics. Simmons, while still something of a hip-hop ambassador, is hawking a new self-help book. Master P, whose estimated worth was once $661 million, watched his label, No Limit, sink into bankruptcy. He recently announced the formation of Take a Stand Records, a label catering to "clean" hip-hop music. "Personally, I have profited millions of dollars through explicit rap lyrics," Master P stated on his website. "I can honestly say that I was once part of the problem, and now it's time to be part of the solution."

Chris Lighty, CEO of Violator Entertainment, whose clients include 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes, is looking at ways that record companies can work with artists in one area where rappers have been innovative: endorsement and branding. Whether it's 50 Cent owning a stake in Vitamin Water or Jay-Z doing a commercial for HP, most of these deals have been brokered by the artists' own camp. But Lighty sees in hip-hop a chance for record labels to generate more sponsorship and endorsements. "Record companies are going to have to make even better records and participate in brand extension. It's the only way they can survive," says Lighty. "We need to change the format, and this is the only way. 50 Cent is a brand. Jay-Z is a brand."

But the current hubbub over indecency poses a direct challenge to that brand strength, as the artist Akon recently discovered. While performing in Trinidad, Akon was videotaped dancing suggestively with a fan who was later revealed to be only 14. The video attracted the ire of conservatives like Bill O'Reilly. In the wake of the controversy, Akon's tour sponsor, Verizon, removed all ringtones featuring his work and retracted its sponsorship. The message was clear: Hip-hop needs a new and improved product.
Source: http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1653639,00.html
 

Salar

The One, The Only
#3
Personally i think it's well and truly dead.. few artists right now are realy doing things differently and coming out. The glory days of hiphop are over. The oukasts, Tribe called quests, roots, jurassic 5's, De La Souls and so on will live on for a long time.. but the gangsta rap scene should've died a long time ago. The problem with the genre is that a formula worked for a few rappers and then every tom dick and harry jumped onto that same formula. Next thing you knew.. you'd hear the same tracks over and over again talking about the same shit.
The other problem for hiphop is that we have moved away from lyrics and meaning and have become concentrated on melody. Hence the reason the dance scene is blowing up ridiculously world wide while hiphop is being left behind. Hence another reason Kanye West is doing well for himself..

Anyway these are just opinions.. and hiphop will come back eventually.. but not until someone comes out with a fresh flavour
 

Snowman

Well-Known Member
#4
yeah hip hop is dying cause we got idiots like T-pain and young joc and mims rapping about ring tones?? wtf. you would never hear 2pac rap about that shit. and other legendary hip hop artists. and whoever sings cock block and drop it.. i mean pop lock and drop it.

Nelly, lil jon, ying yang twins, young joc, mike jones and a lot of other corny one liners that are killing hip hop. missy elliott she needs to go. or be a song writer for keyshia cole or something.
 
#5
hip hop just needs something different to happen. there are so many people out right now that you cant even tell who is who half the time because they all are sounding the same and talking about all the same shit. it's not like dmx vs jayz where jay had his own story and dmx had his own different style. or biggie and tupac and their differences. or eminem or redman where they have their own difference that isnt like everyone else out there. now it's like there are a whole bunch of guys that are all telling the same story to us and where they may all come from the same things they could still say something different. like outkast for instance. they same real things and still make music people love. they dont sellout. at least not in my opinion.
 

Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
#6
yeah hip hop is dying cause we got idiots like T-pain and young joc and mims rapping about ring tones?? wtf. you would never hear 2pac rap about that shit. and other legendary hip hop artists. and whoever sings cock block and drop it.. i mean pop lock and drop it.

Nelly, lil jon, ying yang twins, young joc, mike jones and a lot of other corny one liners that are killing hip hop. missy elliott she needs to go. or be a song writer for keyshia cole or something.

I dont agree. The article is saying that hip-hop is dying because sales have dropped, yet all the artists you listed that are supposedly responsible for it's death are the only ones selling.

MIMS didnt do anything to kill Hip-Hop, he put a lot of money into the industry. People like De La Soul dont sell anymore, focusing only on that type of music will kill Hip-Hop on a commercial level, which is what this article is focusing on.

Album sales are down, yeah, but sales are down accross the board. The number one thing killing Hip-Hop right now is the old school rappers, we dont get enough new blood and no one wants to market new artists. Then when you get a rapper like MIMS come out the only way he can sell is by making bullshit singles that are hot in the clubs and it works, so how is he or others like him responsible for killing Hip-Hop?

These new rappers could sit and not make any buzz at all, but THAT would kill hiphop because there would be nothing to buy and nothing new to listen to.

"This Is Why Im Hot" was a DOPE track, and it will put more kids onto Hip-Hop because it is catchy. It will go down in history as something of an "I Got 5 On It" type track which EVERYBODY loves.

As for Hip-Hop being dead, they've been saying that since the late 80s.

What we need is new artists, that is why 50 blew so much he was a new sound, same thing with Akon. No offense to them but I could give a fuck about Bone Thugs comeback, or the Outlawz. We need new groups. We need new Snoops. We need new Dre's. We need the whole new generation to come up and do their thing.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
We need new groups. We need new Snoops. We need new Dre's. We need the whole new generation to come up and do their thing.
I see the problem as being that Hip-Hop bit the hand that fed it. The rise of Hip-Hop was the death of funk as the predominant comtemporary street music.

But funk was musical, and the cats playing that shit are some of the best in the world at their instruments. There is not a guitarist on this planet that can fuck with Prince or Jesse Johnson, not a keyboardist that can fuck with Stevie Wonder or Bernie Worrell, and no bass player that can fuck with Bootsy Collins or Larry Graham!!!

Hip-Hop was built on sampling funk. In the 80's, cats were sampling James Brown, Maceo & The Macks, Ohio Players and Sly Stone. In the 90's, cats like Dre were sampling Parliament-Funkadelic, Slave, Zapp & Roger, Cameo, because that was the music they grew up listening to.

You don't have to be a genius to realize that Dre & Snoop connected over a shared love of George Clinton and Bootsy Collins. Hell, Snoop's been doing his best Bootsy impersonation for years, and so much of The Chronic and Doggystyle were straight P-Funk loops. They even called it that but changed the P to a G!


So now in 2007, we're faced with a problem. The guys making music today, for the most part, grew up listening to hip-hop. So they're all just recycling what's already been done, and, like a bootleg tape that's been dubbed, passed on, and dubbed again......the quality is slowly but surely downgrading. It's ridiculous cos over the last few years i've noticed that dudes have been sampling a song that was based on a sample in the first place. it's fucking ridiculous.

Hip-Hop was never based on original music. Now everyone wants to get seriously paid to be sampled, which is fair enough. So you get dudes not sampling 'cause they can't afford it or want to keep the money and making cheap ass casio keyboard garbage music.
 

The.Menace

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#8
There's only so much redundancy anyone can take.
lol I agree so much. I still listen to a lot of hiphop, but mostly old stuff or new 'underground' stuff or whatever. The mainstream is so boring, it just kills it. Yeah, there is only so much redundancy anyone can take.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#9
I agree with Rukas and Salar....

Hip-hop isn't dead... But why are sales down? Because the music is shit... If you make good music then you will sell.... Why isn't there good music? Because record companies aren't wanting to invest in Artists development... They don't wanna take a risk... They have stuck to the same formula for far too long, and thought Interscope had it made...

We have the same rappers... Rappers who have lost the hunger... Yet I can easily reel off 10 rappers who could reignite the genre and haven't been given a chance....
 
#10
Hip-Hop is far from dead. Especially seeing that once you die, there's no coming back (Disco, doo-wop, etc.) It's definately in a slump, though. The problem is the music. It's the very people that are on the internet, who'd much rather download shit than go to Best Buy and spend $9.99 on a CD. Artists like Papoose and Saigon are good, but I bet they won't sell shit. Not because their music sucks but because people don't support the artists anymore.
 

Salar

The One, The Only
#11
^Disco is coming back btw. A different flavour of it.. but it's coming back.
The indy wave of the dance scene and some artists are pushing for that sound now. Listen to Justice - D.A.N.C.E
track got release earlier this year.. a major club hit at the moment.
 

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