Your Car.....

[Jeremy]

 

[Pittsey]

I don't got any picture I'll look into it.

Pittsey where is 1st gear for you? All the way to the left or to the right? I always wondered this on RHD. And where is reverse cause on Vdubs in USDM it is before first gear
r135
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All the way to the left. Yep. Reverse is before 1st.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

oh, and kinda off topic, but do benzes suffer from severe turbo lag??? cuz that cl 600 is a twin turbo v12...... would i get instaneous response cuz its a benz?

The instantaneous response isn't because it's a Benz, it's because of the size of the motor... I'll explain that later.

Normal Cl600's aren't charged i think. CL65 AMG is twinturbo supercharged, which isn't laggy because the engine itself is massive.

CL600s have twin-turbos, as do CL65 AMGs, except with slightly larger turbos putting out more boost.

so torque eliminates turbo lag now?

Torque isn't really associated with the reason why a car would or wouldn't have turbo lag. There are a couple reasons why turbo lag would exist in a car. The main one is usually the size of the turbo. As I hope you know by now, turbos are propelled by exhaust gas, so a smaller turbo requires less airflow to get it spinning, so power is made almost instantaneously. However, its smaller size limits the maximum amount of extra power that can be produced, which is why engines with small turbos tend to not have exciting top ends toward the end of the rev range. (An example of this would be the new Volkswagen Golf GTI.) Larger turbos, however, are the opposite, and require more air before significant power gains are made, hence the slight delay, but they have really exciting top ends and make ridiculous amounts of hp once the turbo is spooling. (An example of this would be cars modified with larger aftermarket turbos.) The second reason is the size of the engine, which may or may not cancel out the previous factor of turbo size. Larger engines (based on displacement or amount of cylinders) tend to spew out more exhaust gas more quickly, so propelling turbos isn't really that difficult, plus the increased size already yields more horsepower and torque before the boost even kicks in, which is why Mercedes' twin-turbo V-12 is lag-free and a beast at any rpm and why Bugatti's quad-turbo W-16 is even more monstrous while not suffering from any of the drawbacks associated with forced induction.

However, I must say that turbo lag is quite exaggerated. People who don't really know what they're talking about seem to blow things out of proportion and make it seem like the boost doesn't kick in for days, when it fact it's usually less than a second at very worst (unless you gun it in top gear at 30 mph or something ridiculous like that). Turbocharging in this day and age is far more advanced than before, and automakers are more and more able to find compromises between larger turbos and lag reduction. Driving several turbo cars over recent years and owning one myself, I can say that lag is very easy to avoid. If you're racing in a straight line, the only time you'd really notice lag is in first gear if you launch your car at too low of an rpm. If you're racing on a road course, just keep the rpms in the zone where full boost is achieved, which is typically around 3500 and up in most cars, which is very easy to do, and you won't even notice it, unless you don't downshift into the proper gear at the proper time.

 

[Pittsey]

However, I must say that turbo lag is quite exaggerated. People who don't really know what they're talking about seem to blow things out of proportion and make it seem like the boost doesn't kick in for days, when it fact it's usually less than a second at very worst (unless you gun it in top gear at 30 mph or something ridiculous like that). Turbocharging in this day and age is far more advanced than before, and automakers are more and more able to find compromises between larger turbos and lag reduction. Driving several turbo cars over recent years and owning one myself, I can say that lag is very easy to avoid. If you're racing in a straight line, the only time you'd really notice lag is in first gear if you launch your car at too low of an rpm. If you're racing on a road course, just keep the rpms in the zone where full boost is achieved, which is typically around 3500 and up in most cars, which is very easy to do, and you won't even notice it, unless you don't downshift into the proper gear at the proper time.

Yep. People expect it to pull in everygear no matter what the speed. If you want power, drop a gear, no turbo lag.

 

[Duke]

CL600s have twin-turbos, as do CL65 AMGs, except with slightly larger turbos putting out more boost.

Hm, indeedi they do. Thought they were NA. Didn't know the AMG turbos were actually bigger. They kicked displacement up to 6 litres but didn't tamper with the blowers if i recall. Anyway, it's still horrendously torquey.

Good post :thumb: Turbo lag is indeed often exxagerated. All depends on the set-up of the engine. An NSX won't hurtle off at 2500 rpm either, but you don't hear folks whining about that


Besides, turbo lag isn't a problem a second turbo can't solve

 

[tennis_dog]

" The instantaneous response isn't because it's a Benz, it's because of the size of the motor... I'll explain that later."

oh, that's not what i meant...what i meant was kinda what you said before...someone mighta exaggerated the turbo lag thing to me...so i was thinking of it as a bad thing..which im sure it is.....but i was thinking the opposite..that a bigger engine would need more exhaust, like the v12 AMG, so i was assuming that the turbolag on an AMG would kinda....tarnish the image of the AMG/benz...but i guess not...i knew it being a benz had nothing to do with turbo lag...i guess i just worded it wrong

another thing, i'm really getting off topic in the thread, but i was fooling around with my car the other day on a mini highway by my house....the es, of course...the thing is once i hit 3,000 rom, i really feel like im pushing the engine to its limit allready....maybe i am, i dunno...but i think im in 2nd gear when im at 3,000 and it feels like my engine is just gonna jump outta my hood...then i ease off the gas, it switches gears, and things are ok again...so what my question is...is it normal for the car to be that stressed at 3,000 in 2nd gear?? and if it is, could i actually hold down on the gas a little longer to maybe 5,000 before switching??

in case you didnt notice, i dunno what the hell im doign with my car...just wanted to see its performance....if im in danger of fucking the car over, lemme know too

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Seeing that your car is automatic, based on the type of experimental driving you're doing, you won't cause any serious damage. You could press the gas pedal as long as you want, it'll just delay the upshift. The reason why your car's engine feels a bit stressed at higher rpms is because it was a model (based on the Toyota Camry) intended for comfortable, easy daily-driving, not necessarily quick acceleration into the upper end of the rev range and fast sprints to 100 mph.

 

[BIG NASTY]

So post it in a couple days after buying it, muthafucka! Haha

Is that the place that is on Harbor Blvd.?

yep in costa mesa

if i do get it ill be taking mad pictures

 

[tennis_dog]

anything i can do?? when you say designed, im assuming that it has something to do with gear ratios? could i get those changed?

 

[Duke]

anything i can do?? when you say designed, im assuming that it has something to do with gear ratios? could i get those changed?

Of course. You can change everything. Whether you want to is a different matter entirely.

 

[tennis_dog]

well, then you might have to help me out a bit...i mean, yes, it's a luxury car, but i still want a little zip in it...so from what i know about gear ratios, which is very little, to get a quick pick up speed, i can tighten the first...two? three?? and then have the other 2 somewhat loose? do i have it right???

and if i were to just have the ratio changed, how much would it cost me, and where would i go? i dunno of any car garages, but i have tons of friends that work at them....im not gonna trust the car to them, but maybe their garages? let me know...

 

[Fataldawg]

I got some pics of my ride in my profile, but heres another 1. '04 Artic Frost Toyota Solara V6 SE

 

[tennis_dog]

oh shit...that is nice...so is meyer's car, forgot to say that too...


i never knew the solara replaced the supra....supra was called "celica supra" then "supra", then they replaced it in the lineup with the "solara"...that is weird as hell...

why are supras favored by all these racers? why do people go crazy over their engineering?? is it cuz it's an h-6? or h4, i dunno which...

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

i never knew the solara replaced the supra....supra was called "celica supra" then "supra", then they replaced it in the lineup with the "solara"...that is weird as hell...

Boy, you never learn. Do some research. The Solara is NOT the replacement for the Supra, and it never was. It is more of a two-door convertible version of the Camry than anything else. Toyota is building a new Supra that should be out in a few years.

why are supras favored by all these racers? why do people go crazy over their engineering?? is it cuz it's an h-6? or h4, i dunno which...

Supras are favored because they have what is arguably the strongest engine ever built. There are many Supras that put out over 1000 hp, many of which still use many stock parts (block, pistons, rods, etc.), whereas most other cars would need complete overhauls to reach such levels, almost to the point where the engine hardly keeps any original parts. And while 1000+ hp Supras tend to not be the greatest daily drivers, they are usually the best imports to use to destroy quarter-mile drag strips. However, there are plenty of daily-driven Supras with well beyond 500 hp, sometimes even approaching 1000.

 

[Fataldawg]

Boy, you never learn. Do some research. The Solara is NOT the replacement for the Supra, and it never was. It is more of a two-door convertible version of the Camry than anything else. Toyota is building a new Supra that should be out in a few years.

Yup, its basically a 2 door Camry.. Even on my car title and insurance papers it says "Camry Solara"... Also it says its an '05 when its an '04 for some reason.. Unfortunately ive been having alot of electrical problems with it the past year :-/

I think they said the Supra is coming out in '08 I think? I'm sure they'll bring something out to combat the Nissan/Infinity Skyline when it comes to America

 

[tennis_dog]

"Boy, you never learn. Do some research. The Solara is NOT the replacement for the Supra, and it never was. It is more of a two-door convertible version of the Camry than anything else. Toyota is building a new Supra that should be out in a few years."

oh come on, you keep taking my things outta context....i didnt mean, the solara "replaced" the supra... it was put in when the supra was taken out, right??? i did do the research, on wikipedia, and i know the solara is no where near the supra in performance, but like i said, they scratched the supra, and came with the solara...


also, any pics on the 08 supra? im gonna go google now..

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I think they said the Supra is coming out in '08 I think? I'm sure they'll bring something out to combat the Nissan/Infinity Skyline when it comes to America

From what I remember reading, they were planning on having a V-6 model (to go against the 350Z/G35 Coupe) and a V-8 model with the 450+ hp engine that is being tested in the upcoming IS500. In addition, they are working on a Lexus "supercar" with a V-10 that should have well over 500 hp.

oh come on, you keep taking my things outta context....i didnt mean, the solara "replaced" the supra... it was put in when the supra was taken out, right??? i did do the research, on wikipedia, and i know the solara is no where near the supra in performance, but like i said, they scratched the supra, and came with the solara...

Re-read your original post that I quoted, you specifically said "replaced," as seen here:

i never knew the solara replaced the supra....supra was called "celica supra" then "supra", then they replaced it in the lineup with the "solara"...that is weird as hell...

I didn't take anything out of context, that is exactly what you said. But your reasoning isn't accurate, you're saying just because they Supra went out of production one year and the Solara went into production several years later, that makes it a replacement? I don't think so, that just makes it a new model in the lineup.

Anyway, the reason why the Supra went out of production (at least in the U.S.) after the 1998 model year was because the market for higher-priced Japanese sports cars was dwindling, despite success in the early 1990s. In 1996, the Mazda RX-7 and Nissan 300ZX were both removed from the U.S. market. In 1997, the Mitsubishi 3000GT (called the Mitsubishi GTO in Japan) was pulled. And as mentioned before, the Supra hit a dead end in 1998. All of these cars were about $50,000 and sold reasonably well in their first few years, but seemed too overpriced to American consumers (which is why the cars were either yanked or, in the case of the Supra in its last two years, had a significant price reduction) after their debut. Keep in mind that this was a time when American car manufacturers completely dominated the car market within the U.S., before consumers started to really think about build quality and reliability... hence why the Ford Taurus was the best-selling car at the time.

Fast forward to the end of the 20th century. A lot of the crappy domestic cars that were previously the best-sellers start showing their shortcomings, and Japanese cars start getting the recognition they deserve for their attention to fit-and-finish. Honda's Civic And Accord sales are currently dominating the market, followed by the Toyota Camry, so Japanese car manufacturers are starting to re-evaluate whether or not they want to bring over their sports cars again. Although Honda/Acura had their various sporty compacts (Honda Civic Si, Honda Prelude Type-SH, Acura Integra GS-R and Type R), none of them were really sports cars. In addition, Mitsubishi had killed off the turbocharged Eclipses and replaced them with a more traditionally American setup... a larger displacement engine with more cylinders. But by this time, Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution VII was released overseas and various American journalists raved about it, and Mitsubishi officials hinted that they would keep the U.S. in mind when creating the Evo VIII. (The VII didn't meet U.S. bumper standards.) Honda started selling the S2000, which a lot of people praised for its handling and insane 9000 rpm redline.

However, I personally attribute the revival of Japanese sports cars to Subaru for taking a gamble and bringing the WRX to U.S. shores. While they expected to sell 10,000 of them in its first year, they sold that many within several months. After its first year, sales had totaled over 24,000, despite its "bug eye" looks that often received criticism. But it was the wild performance that was available for under $24,000 that made it such a hit. This lead to the definite green-lighting of the Evo, which further encouraged Subaru to bring over the WRX STi. But within a year of the WRX's release, we saw new sporty imports costing over $30,000 reach our shores... Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35 Sports Coupe and Mazda RX-8, all of which have seen lots of success and have paved the way for a lot of exciting upcoming cars that offer more performance but for a bigger pricetag, like the revived Acura NSX, Lexus supercar (codenamed the LF-A), Nissan Skyline GT-R and Toyota SUPRA.

 

[tennis_dog]

aight, fine...but that's not what i meant...

anyways, i looked up the pics for the supra...im sure those are just concepts though...hopefully it looks a little better than that...

i just looked through the wikipedia article i read a while back, but i cant find the part where they said it replaced the supra with the solara...i know that it isnt true now, but the fact that it was said, i just wanna go check....

but were supras not h6s? boxers?? here it says it was an inline 6... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_supra

but aight, thanks for clearing that up....i got pics of my car...just gotta up them...some are like..a meg or two...werent pics in the kb's? ah, whatever..

 

[C.R.Y.]

Supras are favored because they have what is arguably the strongest engine ever built. There are many Supras that put out over 1000 hp, many of which still use many stock parts (block, pistons, rods, etc.), whereas most other cars would need complete overhauls to reach such levels, almost to the point where the engine hardly keeps any original parts. And while 1000+ hp Supras tend to not be the greatest daily drivers, they are usually the best imports to use to destroy quarter-mile drag strips. However, there are plenty of daily-driven Supras with well beyond 500 hp, sometimes even approaching 1000.

yup, there was a daily driven supra that had 1542rwhp through a 3spd th400 auto tranny from chevy. it was owned by a guy called marko. it had a/c, stereo, and full interior. while still having enough power to slaughter most cars. but like all cars powerful supras do have their negatives. for example, boost wont come on til over 5,000rpms (6,000rpms for markos IIRC) if you want 1000whp. so if you want passing power on the highway, youll have to downshift a couple of gears to get positive pressure. youll also have to run race gas to make them big numbers. expect a little more than half of your normal numbers on pump. not trying to diss the supra, since its one of my faves, but im calling it how i see it.

 

[C.R.Y.]

why are supras favored by all these racers? why do people go crazy over their engineering?? is it cuz it's an h-6? or h4, i dunno which...

them 2jz engines are bulletproof. you can make 1000whp on a completely stock block. anything past that though and youll have to open up the block to replace parts before they break. but thats not bad considering its a 13 yr old 183CI engine. as long as you got the tuning right on a supra, you shouldnt worry too much about it spitting rods. the only other cars that i know of that give the supra a run for the money is the terminators (03 mustang cobra), LS1s, Viper V10s, the 6g72 from 3000gts, and the evo's 4g63. im not too sure of any more engines with that type of potential. if anyone knows any, feel free to add on