Why do people say biggie and pac is the greatest?
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Robbo1984 said:Considering Tupac was bigger than Biggie in them days(due to his record sales). So I doubt Pac did it to gain more respect lol. But whatever you think lol :thumb:.
Pac dissed Biggie, because of a personal thing. Thats like saying 50 Cent dissed Ja Rule to gain more respect lol. But no :thumb:
Where did I say to "gain more respect"?
Exactly, you're clowning yourself.
Tupac said it in interviews himself, his anger & subsequent dissing of Biggie came down to respect. I was pointing out that there was a common denominator for both Tupac & Chino's disses.
And yes, 50 did diss Ja for respect.
Read up fool.
buckem85 said:
hmmm
buckem85 said:
Is ur opinion valid ??? I know how smart and mature you are....
Big had the flow(i like biggie , not hating on him) ... but i think 2pac had the voice ,a nice flow , story telling , realness , he wasnt into metaphorical shyt . He was into deep shyt but ppl r not giving him enuff credit 4 his lyrics.Look at the way he would make you look at certain events that you would never even think twice about.
Some call him a modern day philospher ... im my collage class a student argued with the teach why 2pac is better then aristotile...lol
2pac was on another level then any rapper ever even dreamed off.
^BIG did not have lyrics like this..2pac Shakur said:
This interview explains why 2pac didnt fuck around with metaphorical Bull shyt ... hes just tellin u whats wrong, not trying 2 dance around the problems .. http://rapidshare.de/files/2837945/2Pac_-_Davy_Dee_-_Interview_With_2Pac_-_Part_01.mp3.html
I think Big & Pac are considered the best because they both represent different styles of Hip Hop and do it so brilliantly. Biggie was better lyrically and flow wise, but Pac had the message and emotion along with a great flow. Another reason also is because of the East Vs West beef, although the media hyped that up alot of people beleived it and got patriotic for the side they belong. Alot of NY crowned Biggie to counteract the attack from Pac, while the West had Pac. Since they died before anything was resolved through the media its stayed that way, and thats alot of the reason Pac fans dont like Biggie and vise-versa.
Little Miss Vixen said:
LOL sorry its late and I worked all day ..
The point i was trying to state was that he is looked at as a modern philospher. Because some of the philospher i studied in school didn't say much , all they would talk about is common sense and take things out of the bible and add a twist to it...(Im talking about moral philosphers).
2pac would be talking about how our government is a gang , to wanting to have a revolution ... to telling his most inner darkest secrets telling you his own personal problems to things that needs to be change and looked at differntly. Even Talking about gangs being positive .. giving back 2 the community .. 2much 2 name..
He wanted 2 give back to the hood , most rappers try 2 get away from the hood.
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
Yeah, but the man never went into such a depth that he is considered a philosopher in the same bracket - or by the same scholars - as actual respected philosophers.
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
Well, a lot of rappers give back.
And Tupac moved out the 'hood.
I think its a good thing he didnt get so complicated that normal everyday people couldnt understand him. There are alot of people who had/have the same type of passion for their views as Pac, but generally when people like that get in the spotlight they hide that side of themselves because of the backlash from media. If you have a controversial view of something you can get squashed for it, example: Dixie Chicks when America went into Iraq. Pac managed to keep that side in the spotlight and not get beat down too much, although he did have massive attacks from the media and government his sales didnt suffer.
artisticgurl said:
well put
Little Miss Vixen said:
Did u ever read any of the works of these "philosophers".I hate the class im in right now... All Common sense , with big words bassically.I think if u put all of 2pacs views and interviews into a book, u will learn more from that then some moral philosphers.
Example is Socrates which was known as the 1st great moral philospher of the west but everything he said was nothing mind blowing but more common sense more looked into.During his time he was considered to be a criminal and trying to destroy Athens. Everything he said , his student wrote down and this is the reason his works r even around today.Given he was put to death and he did have ppl speaking agaisnt the governement , these guys really are nothing they r cracked out to be..
A Socrates quote "Our prayers should be for blessings in general, for God knows best what is good for us. " This is a nice quote but its to a religious person common sense." Wisdom begins in wonder "
another nice quote but we all know to become intellegent u must ask questions... Point im trying 2 make is common sense said in different ways..
So during these guys times , ppl like u said they are not in the same bracket, but it takes us 2,000 to have respect for these people..Should we wait that long to do the same with 2pac..?
I think there both great. but i think what makes pac so much greater is his passion. I think Big would of been happy gettin money and just livin off his name (like snoop dogg) however i think pac would of kept goin all out untill he saw real change in society. I think he would of been in everyones face untill the Goverment made changes or he couldnt talk anymore.
On a personal level i think style means so little and sound means nothin when it comes to the message your tryin to deliver. 2pac hit what means. I also dont think pac would have ever fallen off. cuz if we fixed the ghettos he would of found somethin else. And christ knows what he would of said about this war we found billions of dollars for, yet still cant help the poor of other contries. I think even if he survived those shots he would of died in the rap game.
On a personal level i think style means so little and sound means nothin when it comes to the message your tryin to deliver. 2pac hit what means. I also dont think pac would have ever fallen off. cuz if we fixed the ghettos he would of found somethin else. And christ knows what he would of said about this war we found billions of dollars for, yet still cant help the poor of other contries. I think even if he survived those shots he would of died in the rap game.
The reason is that people, including the thread starter, group them together.
Why do people have to compare them. They were both great rappers. Biggie's flow is one of the best ever in rap and lyrically he was crazy. If you don't like him fine. But no need to say he was "wack" or whatever, because he was very far from that.
If you prefer Biggie to 2pac, again that's fine. You are entitled to like what you like and no-one should argue with you fo that.
2pac was far more charismatic and lives on way after death.
Why do people have to compare them. They were both great rappers. Biggie's flow is one of the best ever in rap and lyrically he was crazy. If you don't like him fine. But no need to say he was "wack" or whatever, because he was very far from that.
If you prefer Biggie to 2pac, again that's fine. You are entitled to like what you like and no-one should argue with you fo that.
2pac was far more charismatic and lives on way after death.
this shows why they r the greatest people gets heated talking about them I am more a fan of Pac than Biggie but he's far from wack but I don't understand why people say Biggie was so lyrical & Pac wasn't because not only Pac was lyrical but he rap with intelligence if you listen to his music referring to the youth, the gov't & everything else Pac was a revolutionary who could rap and people referring to freestyles Biggie freestyles was from his songs & look at the history of hip hop just cause you can freestyle don't mean you're a tight rapper
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
Yes I've studied philosophers.
"All common sense", eh? Well a lot of it wasn't back then.
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
It's a testament to the man that what he professed is now known as common sense.
I know who he was, what he was & what happened to him.
Look, he died unfairly, & during his life had been wrongly perceived to be a criminal & was persecuted for it......sound familiar?
The same things that you would laud Tupac for you dismiss for Socrates - who truly changed the world, unlike Tupac.
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
Don't take a piece or two of the man's work & try to pass judgement. Your hero said something similar & guess what? While profound, it was common sense.........& common sense tells me that this part of your post means nothing.
Think_ThuGLiFE said:
2,000 years? No, they were respected well before then.
And no amount of time with put Tupac in the same bracket, imo or world opinion.
Little Miss Vixen said:
You sound like a complete idiot. The only reason you are hailing those philosophers over Tupac is because you studied them in school. I'm sure you are the type of person that believes everyone you study in school is "BEYOND THIS WORLD". If you were to have readings on 2Pac and his life in one of your courses in school, you wouldn't have the same view on him not being in the same bracket. 2Pac was everything-A musician, actor, activists, and an actual poet--WHY WOULD HE NOT EVER BE IN THE SAME BRACKET. IN FACT, THERE ARE CLASSES BASED ON 2PAC IN COLLEGES ALREADY. 6-7 yrs after his death, the man has classes based on him. In fact, when I was younger a teacher brought in Pac's poetries in class for us to translate. The person or people you hail as great didn't have an impact until hundreds of yrs later.
Hituup said:
Nope, never studied them in school. We're off to a good start, eh Sherlock?
Hituup said:
Wrong again!
Hituup said:
I can make music, act, be an activist & write poetry......why would I not be in the same bracket as Tupac? Because I'm not as good at it as him? Well, there's the same reason why Tupac isn't touching world renouned philosophers.
Oh, & "actual poet". Read some Seamus Heaney or something man, Tupac was a poor poet.
Hituup said:
And this proves what? A minute ago you were lambasting me for only recognizing certain individuals because you assumed I'd studied them in school, now you're reasoning because you & others have studied something of Tupac's in school that that should be particularly important? Nice double standard you got there. :thumb:
Hituup said:
I don't remember hailing anyone as "great".
And these people you refer to, none of them made an instant impact, eh? Mmm, nice genralization but, sadly, it's bullshit.
And even those who weren't recognized in their lifetime, does that make their achievements any less? That alone would make Tupac's achievements considerably less since a lot of people - hell, most of this board - only recognized him after he was dead.
Little Miss Vixen said:
And whoever said Tupac was recognized during his lifetime. What I said or wanted to get across is that 2pac was more realized and recognized quicker after his death than any of your so called philosophers
IM NOT FINISHED YET, I'LL BE BACK LATER!!
Little Miss Vixen, you make some good points, but for real, you coming off as a hater downplaying Pac's impact.
Tupac is a poor poet?? Thats a pure subjective opinion, nothing more. There really is no such thing as good or bad poetry. Poetry is poetry, and can have a different meaning from individual to individual. And besides, if Pac's poetry was so poor, then people wouldnt relate to it, or be listening to him or studying him nearly a decade after his death. There IS a reason why he is one of the top selling artists of all time (and no, its not because he died), and Biggie, Eazy E, Jam Master Jay, and Big L are NOT. Pac was simply a more universal artist that more people on a mass level could relate to. Period. And Pac didnt become recognized until after he died? Hahahaha, he took care of that when a little album that we know of today called All Eyez On Me came out and sold 6 million in only 2 months time. Fact: From February 13th 1996 onward, he was a legend and the standard by which all other hip hop artists are now judged by.
Who are you to measure Pac's achievements?? Get real man. When you sell 45 million albums, have classes on your work, and inspire countless other artists, maybe you can talk. Pac was the voice and icon of an entire generation. If that isnt a big achievement, I dont know what is.
Tupac is a poor poet?? Thats a pure subjective opinion, nothing more. There really is no such thing as good or bad poetry. Poetry is poetry, and can have a different meaning from individual to individual. And besides, if Pac's poetry was so poor, then people wouldnt relate to it, or be listening to him or studying him nearly a decade after his death. There IS a reason why he is one of the top selling artists of all time (and no, its not because he died), and Biggie, Eazy E, Jam Master Jay, and Big L are NOT. Pac was simply a more universal artist that more people on a mass level could relate to. Period. And Pac didnt become recognized until after he died? Hahahaha, he took care of that when a little album that we know of today called All Eyez On Me came out and sold 6 million in only 2 months time. Fact: From February 13th 1996 onward, he was a legend and the standard by which all other hip hop artists are now judged by.
Who are you to measure Pac's achievements?? Get real man. When you sell 45 million albums, have classes on your work, and inspire countless other artists, maybe you can talk. Pac was the voice and icon of an entire generation. If that isnt a big achievement, I dont know what is.
Hellrazor1978 said:
I am a hater. It's not Tupac I hate, it's his fans.
Hellrazor1978 said:
You should've really left it at the emboldened because it's true.
But then, when you say there's no such thing as good or bad poetry, that's wrong. Of course there's no such thing across the board - that is, that everyone will agree on. But good & bad poetry must exist, if it's subjective, right?
And it differs from individual to individual, but his poetry would not be accepted as high calibre in major poet circles.
And then you get on to "listening". Yes rap is poetry to an extent, but when I want to talk about his rapping I will.
Hellrazor1978 said:
Show me where I said this? Exactly I didn't, so you just made an ass of yourself. :thumb:
Hellrazor1978 said:
Who am I? lol, it's funny how after you say that you go onto to give us a little run down of his "achievements" from your point of view. Tell me, who are you?
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