Who would (insert name here) date for a celebrity?
- Thread starter Shadows
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See above!!!!
And seriously what the fuck are we arguing about. Some stupid horses....
If you want to save some horses better get down the gypsy camps. They treat them like shit... But I have a feeling most people here are armchair campaigners, campaigning from the safety of their computer screens. If you're serious about animal welfare I want photographic evidence of a horse you've saved in your house, on the PC tonight. If not, it's just words.... And dare I say it.... A fashion.
I thought it would be clear that if no research could be done I'd be fine with that. I'm not saying it's realistic (neither is solving world hunger) I'm just saying I'm against it. I was clearly arguing the morality of it, so I don't understand the "really realistic comment then" ... or the cowboy comment.
What did I say? "animal labs ... conjure images of concentration camps and the work of Hitler's "doctors"".
Maybe that doesn't conjure images of some of the work Hitler's doctors did for you, but you should be rational enough to not think it's laughable that it does for me. Yet your comment makes it seem like I'm some dim-witted Republican comparing Obama to Hitler. And that's the second time, "Way to assume that every horse-carriage owner business whatever is situated in a crowded city" which wasn't true either.
And then you accuse me of being like a wall to talk to. Maybe it would help if you'd put your self-admitted bias aside and actually read what I posted.
What did I say? "animal labs ... conjure images of concentration camps and the work of Hitler's "doctors"".
Maybe that doesn't conjure images of some of the work Hitler's doctors did for you, but you should be rational enough to not think it's laughable that it does for me. Yet your comment makes it seem like I'm some dim-witted Republican comparing Obama to Hitler. And that's the second time, "Way to assume that every horse-carriage owner business whatever is situated in a crowded city" which wasn't true either.
And then you accuse me of being like a wall to talk to. Maybe it would help if you'd put your self-admitted bias aside and actually read what I posted.
I am for now, hoping to change it.
However I can provide you pictures of 3 kittens I saved from starvation, 5 cats I gave a temporary home (which doesn't seem like much unless I'd explain my personal circumstances) and 1 cat that I gave a permanent home.
I'm not doing what I want to though, which is why I've never pet myself on the back and I hate it when people around me give me compliments for the volunteer work I've done. And why I don't point the finger at other people. I just get annoyed at how logic seems to fail most people in these discussions.
95% of all "moral talk" is armchair campaigning anyway. And your comment is the passive-aggressive I'm-not-getting-involved-but-still-need-to-say-something approach.
PS: You don't look like Paul Rudd and your son looks cute.
However I can provide you pictures of 3 kittens I saved from starvation, 5 cats I gave a temporary home (which doesn't seem like much unless I'd explain my personal circumstances) and 1 cat that I gave a permanent home.
I'm not doing what I want to though, which is why I've never pet myself on the back and I hate it when people around me give me compliments for the volunteer work I've done. And why I don't point the finger at other people. I just get annoyed at how logic seems to fail most people in these discussions.
95% of all "moral talk" is armchair campaigning anyway. And your comment is the passive-aggressive I'm-not-getting-involved-but-still-need-to-say-something approach.
PS: You don't look like Paul Rudd and your son looks cute.
You have this whole humans are equal to animals thing going on.
Well I just don't agree. Own species first. I'm not saying we should torture animals for fun, but if slicing a monkey open can add to cure cancer, then I wouldn't wanna be said monkey.
It's all fine and well to argue humans and animals are totally equal but when push comes to shove, who are you gonna save from a burning house? A goldfish or your fellow man?
Well I just don't agree. Own species first. I'm not saying we should torture animals for fun, but if slicing a monkey open can add to cure cancer, then I wouldn't wanna be said monkey.
It's all fine and well to argue humans and animals are totally equal but when push comes to shove, who are you gonna save from a burning house? A goldfish or your fellow man?
That's a 'lets agree to disagree' thing but for the entire thread you made it out to be a lack of logic on my end. I thought you were more objective than that. If you post anything more I'll read it and think about what you've said but I'm probably done here. I can't say much more without getting into human psychology.
There you go putting words into my mouth.
I don't know what animals want. But is it UNREASONABLE to suggest they don't want to slaves or used as a commodity? Is it unreasonable to suggest that perhaps, they don't want to work in less than ideal conditions for no personal gain and then usually killed when they are past their use for humans? You know that most cows are killed at the age of 5 because their milk yield lowers? And that they'd otherwise live another 10 years?
Fuck, it's not rocket science. THIS is logic, yet you want to claim otherwise.
If any humans on the planet were treated the way most animals are, there'd be worldwide outrage. It's slavery.
And yes, animals are equal to humans. What, we're superior to them because we're further along the evolutionary chain? Fuck that.
Pittsey - to make a comparison - is physical action the only thing that matters to you? Did you physically fly to Haiti to help the people there after the earthquake? Have you been to Pakistan to aid the relief effort there? Because giving money and spreading awareness doesn't help.......right?
And Duke...
There's a saying that goes "Shoot for the moon....at the least you'll end up in the stars".
You don't advocate for ending of all wars? Ending all pedophilia? Ending child abuse? Curing all diseases?
It's funny because I'm sure you've said stuff about ending religion before......and so have I. It's realistically not going to happen any time soon, but every little helps....right? Or should we just not bother at all?
I don't know what animals want. But is it UNREASONABLE to suggest they don't want to slaves or used as a commodity? Is it unreasonable to suggest that perhaps, they don't want to work in less than ideal conditions for no personal gain and then usually killed when they are past their use for humans? You know that most cows are killed at the age of 5 because their milk yield lowers? And that they'd otherwise live another 10 years?
Fuck, it's not rocket science. THIS is logic, yet you want to claim otherwise.
If any humans on the planet were treated the way most animals are, there'd be worldwide outrage. It's slavery.
And yes, animals are equal to humans. What, we're superior to them because we're further along the evolutionary chain? Fuck that.
Pittsey - to make a comparison - is physical action the only thing that matters to you? Did you physically fly to Haiti to help the people there after the earthquake? Have you been to Pakistan to aid the relief effort there? Because giving money and spreading awareness doesn't help.......right?
And Duke...
There's a saying that goes "Shoot for the moon....at the least you'll end up in the stars".
You don't advocate for ending of all wars? Ending all pedophilia? Ending child abuse? Curing all diseases?
It's funny because I'm sure you've said stuff about ending religion before......and so have I. It's realistically not going to happen any time soon, but every little helps....right? Or should we just not bother at all?
Yes I know, my response wasn't entirely serious. Thus "mouses" and "nazi way".
And yes, I'm all for "the end justifies the means" but to some extent. Until there's no alternative then some tests are just required to make progress. Would you want to see other people die because you couldn't find a cure in time, because using test subjects was banned?
I don't think that a mouse is as important as a human being (for many reasons) and until there's no other way to progress we have to make some sacrifices. The question is which ones are we willing to take.
Even if you place the human life at the same level as any other species - picture that you had a potential cure for an illness that kills a thousand people every single year, and you had to sacrifice a few people to make it work in a desired way - would you do it?
Obviously using animals for tests that can be done differently is not good, but whenever it can save lives and there's no other way then I'm all for it. Whenever it's the smallest sacrifice you can make to achieve something important.
Of course I find human life much more valuable than any rodent's, I can also consider a person more valuable than another person - for example for our society. It's cold but that's how it is. I think a lesser sacrifice is worth a bigger gain. Damn, I would sacrifice my own life if I could help someone more important for the humanity survive.
And yes, I'm all for "the end justifies the means" but to some extent. Until there's no alternative then some tests are just required to make progress. Would you want to see other people die because you couldn't find a cure in time, because using test subjects was banned?
I don't think that a mouse is as important as a human being (for many reasons) and until there's no other way to progress we have to make some sacrifices. The question is which ones are we willing to take.
Even if you place the human life at the same level as any other species - picture that you had a potential cure for an illness that kills a thousand people every single year, and you had to sacrifice a few people to make it work in a desired way - would you do it?
Obviously using animals for tests that can be done differently is not good, but whenever it can save lives and there's no other way then I'm all for it. Whenever it's the smallest sacrifice you can make to achieve something important.
Of course I find human life much more valuable than any rodent's, I can also consider a person more valuable than another person - for example for our society. It's cold but that's how it is. I think a lesser sacrifice is worth a bigger gain. Damn, I would sacrifice my own life if I could help someone more important for the humanity survive.
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