To the collectors: backing up your collection

[DutchMakaveli]

Now I've been collecting (not really that active, but still) for nearly a year, and although my collection isn't that big, I still feel the need to back my stuff up (digitally, that is), since it'd be a waste if I somehow lost it all.

I'm thinking of buying an exernal hard drive of, say, 250 GB and rip my stuff in WAV-format, scan the booklets and back-up on DVD every once in a while (say once a month).

I know Dante has been backing up his collection on an offline computer, so perhaps he could shed some light on how he did that. Also, to other collectors, any insight on what to avoid or what to include or what to do or whatever?

Feedback appreciated.

EDIT: Also, for instance, when you back-up Death Row Greatest Hits, what's the best thing to do? Back-up the whole CD or just the 'Pac-joints?

 

[Preach]

i rip every tupac track at 320kbps. when i rip stuff like for instance death rows greatest hits i rip all non-tupac tracks at 192kbps. 192kbps would be sufficient for the tupac tracks too, it just feels better playing a 320kbps mp3. lol. it's a waste of space and stupid. the reason why i ripped non-tupac tracks as well was dante once told me "you gotta be complete". yeah, that was a few years ago in the later years as my interest in hiphop has gone beyond dr dre, snoop dogg and 2pac, i'm glad i did though, because a lot of those albums have some quality tracks on them. if you rip your tupac tracks in wav format your 250gb harddrive is going to fill up pretty soon. each track will probably average at 120mb, which is a lot. that's what you have the source item for. take better care of your cds, tapes and vinyl instead. you'll find tons of different ways to take care of them - for instance there are special covers for vinyls that preserve them better and that keeps dust away. i'm sure there are similar solutions for tapes and cds.

i've made a set-up of folders to put my rips in, not too unlike the set-up of 2pacshakur.org. i did my own twist to it though. i have folders for each album/single, and inside the folders i keep mp3s, a txt with a tracklist in unformatted text (in case i wanted to create a web-based index of what i own, if people on the forum asks for tracklists, if i'm selling items, or whatever - so i won't have to type up the tracklists every time), a m3u playlist file (so i can easily play a whole album in winamp or burn it to a cd in the correct order), and a folder with scans.

 

[bigmack]

wait for blueray discs,youll be able to store 50GB on each disk,rip everything to wav and put it on there.

but for now

id say only back up the rare and most precious stuff into wav on a separate hard drive or dvd.if one of your cds get scratched,you can always buy another one for like 10 bucks.

 

[cookies]

i rip every tupac track at 320kbps. when i rip stuff like for instance death rows greatest hits i rip all non-tupac tracks at 192kbps. 192kbps would be sufficient for the tupac tracks too, it just feels better playing a 320kbps mp3. lol. it's a waste of space and stupid. the reason why i ripped non-tupac tracks as well was dante once told me "you gotta be complete". yeah, that was a few years ago in the later years as my interest in hiphop has gone beyond dr dre, snoop dogg and 2pac, i'm glad i did though, because a lot of those albums have some quality tracks on them. if you rip your tupac tracks in wav format your 250gb harddrive is going to fill up pretty soon. each track will probably average at 120mb, which is a lot. that's what you have the source item for. take better care of your cds, tapes and vinyl instead. you'll find tons of different ways to take care of them - for instance there are special covers for vinyls that preserve them better and that keeps dust away. i'm sure there are similar solutions for tapes and cds.

i've made a set-up of folders to put my rips in, not too unlike the set-up of 2pacshakur.org. i did my own twist to it though. i have folders for each album/single, and inside the folders i keep mp3s, a txt with a tracklist in unformatted text (in case i wanted to create a web-based index of what i own, if people on the forum asks for tracklists, if i'm selling items, or whatever - so i won't have to type up the tracklists every time), a m3u playlist file (so i can easily play a whole album in winamp or burn it to a cd in the correct order), and a folder with scans.

everything was good in that post but this. each track average at about 40mb (4.15 sec or so.)

 

[DutchMakaveli]

if you rip your tupac tracks in wav format your 250gb harddrive is going to fill up pretty soon. each track will probably average at 120mb, which is a lot. that's what you have the source item for.

Agreed, but the plan is to back-up everything once in a while from that drive. So theoreticly (sp?) the drive should not be filled to its max. And I believe that WAV files are usually around 40-50 MB, not 120.

The reason I'm leaning towards WAV, is because MP3 as a format doesn't necessarily have a long future ahead. There will be other formats, with better compression, and who knows, maybe in 2, 3 years getting a MP3-codec or converter is nearly impossible. Of course I'm not at all sure if WAV will survive

i've made a set-up of folders to put my rips in, not too unlike the set-up of 2pacshakur.org. i did my own twist to it though. i have folders for each album/single, and inside the folders i keep mp3s, a txt with a tracklist in unformatted text (in case i wanted to create a web-based index of what i own, if people on the forum asks for tracklists, if i'm selling items, or whatever - so i won't have to type up the tracklists every time), a m3u playlist file (so i can easily play a whole album in winamp or burn it to a cd in the correct order), and a folder with scans.

Good set-up. No doubt that I'll keep it in mind.

 

[Pittsey]

I don't back any of my stuff up.

I'm too lazy. But then I don't really listen to 2pac much anymore anyway.

 

[cookies]

I don't back any of my stuff up.

I'm too lazy. But then I don't really listen to 2pac much anymore anyway.

humm u said the naughty word.lol

 

[7hug.Life]

if you wanted to back vinyls & cassettes up, how do you rip them

 

[DutchMakaveli]

if you wanted to back vinyls up, how do you rip them

Hooking up your vinyl-player to your PC.

I've never done it before, but I'm sure there are several tutorials on the Net. Also I believe both Dante and Dominator have a lot of experience with this.

 

[Pittsey]

Hooking up your vinyl-player to your PC.

I've never done it before, but I'm sure there are several tutorials on the Net. Also I believe both Dante and Dominator have a lot of experience with this.

Yeah. In principle it's very simple. The trick is getting the best quality from vinyl/tape as you can.

 

[Dante]

i have no idea why i still do it, but i scan everything at 300dpi and rip at 192kbps. if i really need a 320 i can always pull the cd off the shelf, and when you start getting a lot of stuff ripping at 320 means you'll be needing a new hard drive every other month. as it stands now i have an apple powerbook that i use as an offline storage for everything, which is contained in an external 4 X 250g hard drive firewire enclosure. if i need to i can connect it to my online computer, but i prefer the security in knowing someone isn't trying to get in and play games with my shit. i only use .aif (like wave) for true exclusives, and 320 for the occasional rarity or remaster. my organization is just like 2pacshakur.org's, with reference to the medium (cd, vinyl, etc) and the catalog number.

something that is also worth doing is a regular backup. twice a year i back everything up onto dvdr and it's a hell of a process. last time it took over a hundred of them... anyway, i also do supplemental backups. every item that i copy over to my hard drives goes into a supplement folder that gets burned off as it reaches dvdr size. doing this allows me to stay backed up, and although the supplements are not organized, in the event of a meltdown i still have everything that i did before and with a little work it can be restored.

after having a computer get fried and learning the hard way, i think that my method now is pretty good.

 

[Dante]

Hooking up your vinyl-player to your PC.

I've never done it before, but I'm sure there are several tutorials on the Net. Also I believe both Dante and Dominator have a lot of experience with this.

1. you need a good needle (stylus).
2. if your record player does not have a pre-amp, you need an external one. they cost $25 at radio shack. without one you will never get good highs and lows.
3. connect the record player output to a home stereo, or amplifier with equalization. i use a minisystem due to its portability.
4. each record is mastered differently. play a few songs and eq them to make a nice hip hop curve, with emphasis on bass and snares.
5. run an output from the stereo to your computer (usually done with a headphone line out and in). make sure that the cord you are using is a stereo cord and not a mono one.
6. record the input on your computer, making sure the volume is up enough to get a nice loud signal, but not too loud so as to clip.
7. pause recording between sides or let it continue to record. you'll chop it up later. going song my song will only give you more work to do.
8. after you have a huge wave or aiff file of the entire record, use noise reduction and de-clicking software as needed. you use one big file so you can sample the noise of the outer edge before track 1 and use that to create a profile for the full record.
9. chop it up into tracks and save. done deal.

 

[DutchMakaveli]

i have no idea why i still do it, but i scan everything at 300dpi and rip at 192kbps. if i really need a 320 i can always pull the cd off the shelf, and when you start getting a lot of stuff ripping at 320 means you'll be needing a new hard drive every other month. as it stands now i have an apple powerbook that i use as an offline storage for everything, which is contained in an external 4 X 250g hard drive firewire enclosure. if i need to i can connect it to my online computer, but i prefer the security in knowing someone isn't trying to get in and play games with my shit. i only use .aif (like wave) for true exclusives, and 320 for the occasional rarity or remaster. my organization is just like 2pacshakur.org's, with reference to the medium (cd, vinyl, etc) and the catalog number.

something that is also worth doing is a regular backup. twice a year i back everything up onto dvdr and it's a hell of a process. last time it took over a hundred of them... anyway, i also do supplemental backups. every item that i copy over to my hard drives goes into a supplement folder that gets burned off as it reaches dvdr size. doing this allows me to stay backed up, and although the supplements are not organized, in the event of a meltdown i still have everything that i did before and with a little work it can be restored.

after having a computer get fried and learning the hard way, i think that my method now is pretty good.

At what bitrate do you save a ripped vinyl? 192 as well?

With 4x 250 GB you have 1 TB worth of storage, can you tell me how what percentage is used of that? Just to get an idea.

I like the idea of the supplemental back-up, I was thinking of something like that as well.

Thanks for the mini vinyl-rip tutorial. Are there any things I should pay attention to when ripping tapes as well?

 

[Dante]

At what bitrate do you save a ripped vinyl? 192 as well?

With 4x 250 GB you have 1 TB worth of storage, can you tell me how what percentage is used of that? Just to get an idea.

I like the idea of the supplemental back-up, I was thinking of something like that as well.

Thanks for the mini vinyl-rip tutorial. Are there any things I should pay attention to when ripping tapes as well?

i rip vinyl at 192, and if something is a big deal (like the sprite vinyl) i'll do a 320 and spend a little more time restoring it.

i have a total of 2-300 gig free. it's not good to fill drives all the way since doing that is asking for errors and failure. i'll probably leave 50gig on each drive before going shopping for a new one. i use cases like this:

because they are manually powered on, which means that i leave them off for most of their life. the actual time the drives have seen power is a minimum in effort to keep them alive longer. portability is nice here too, just connect the firewire and a powercord and you're running.

last, when ripping tapes just do a similar process but without the extra firts few steps. make a nice eq for each tape and use the dear air to make a noise profile. tapes are a little tricker to get a sound that's not muffled or flat sounding, but that's the way the world spins.

 

[DutchMakaveli]

i rip vinyl at 192, and if something is a big deal (like the sprite vinyl) i'll do a 320 and spend a little more time restoring it.

i have a total of 2-300 gig free. it's not good to fill drives all the way since doing that is asking for errors and failure. i'll probably leave 50gig on each drive before going shopping for a new one. i use cases like this:

because they are manually powered on, which means that i leave them off for most of their life. the actual time the drives have seen power is a minimum in effort to keep them alive longer. portability is nice here too, just connect the firewire and a powercord and you're running.

last, when ripping tapes just do a similar process but without the extra firts few steps. make a nice eq for each tape and use the dear air to make a noise profile. tapes are a little tricker to get a sound that's not muffled or flat sounding, but that's the way the world spins.

I'm think I'm going for something like this:

200 GB, nice and affordable. By the time I've filled this up, I'll probably have enough money for something like a LaCie Bigger Disk Extreme (1.6 TB)

Props for your insight and info.

 

[Dante]

^^^bad idea. although those slimline hd cases look cool, if they don't have a fan your 7200rpm drive will literally bake its own data away. i had one of these and learned the hard way. although the big bulky ones with fans look old school, they won't do more harm than good.

 

[DutchMakaveli]

^^^bad idea. although those slimline hd cases look cool, if they don't have a fan your 7200rpm drive will literally bake its own data away. i had one of these and learned the hard way. although the big bulky ones with fans look old school, they won't do more harm than good.

Even when you use it rarely? Weird, makes you wonder why they sell it then.

I don't care what it looks like, as long as it works.

Again, props for the heads-up. I guess I'll get a removable frame with fan, build a custom drive in it and wrap the whole thing in an USB casing.

 

[Preach]

everything was good in that post but this. each track average at about 40mb (4.15 sec or so.)

Agreed, but the plan is to back-up everything once in a while from that drive. So theoreticly (sp?) the drive should not be filled to its max. And I believe that WAV files are usually around 40-50 MB, not 120.

aye, well anyway, the point remains lol

 

[μακαφελι]

i only use .aif (like wave)...

What's the difference?

 

[Dante]

Differences in Encoding/Decoding Stereo Streams and AIFF and WAVE Files

Apple's and Microsoft's ADPCM compressed files also differ in how stereo streams are encoded, and therefore decoded. The IMA standard does not say anything about having predictor bytes, nor does it say how multiple channels of sound should be treated, and that is one place where AIFF and WAVE files differ.

For packet size, Apple chose 64 samples per predictor bytes, and for stereo, Apple defines that a packet of left channel data precedes a packet of right channel data. Apple's IMA compressor puts two bytes at the front of each packet, which are referred to as predictor bytes (not be confused with the predictor value that the IMA-ADPCM algorithm defines). These two bytes contain the step index, a 7-bit value in the low byte, and the most significant 9 bits of the predictor value. Obviously, since the real predictor value is 16 bits, this 9-bit predictor is only an approximation, but it doesn't cause significant loss of quality.

Microsoft, on the other hand, lets the program compressing the sound determine the size of the packet, and the WAVE standard is eight samples of left data followed by eight samples of right data. WAVE files also have a two byte header just like the Mac, but have an 8-bit step index instead of a 7-bit step index and an 8-bit predicted sample approximation instead of a 9-bit approximation.

For more information on the WAVE format, interested developers may want to consult one or more of the specifications and descriptions that can be found on the Internet

The wBlockAlign Field

The WAVE file format has a field called wBlockAlign which tells the program reading the file the minimum number of bytes that must be processed at a time. The only WAVE files compressed with ADPCM that I have studied have had this value set to either 512 or 1024. This field could be set to other values. Setting this value to a number larger than 34 allows the WAVE file to have fewer predictor bytes than the same data as an IMA compressed AIFF file.

Apple's method of small packet sizes gains the ability to start playing sound from more locations in the file, thus giving better random access. Microsoft's method still allows for random access, but with greater jumps between points where sound can begin playing from.

Back to top

Consequences of the Differences Between AIFF and WAVE File Formats

Because of the substantial differences between the AIFF and WAVE formats, the Apple IMA decompression codec will not handle Microsoft's ADPCM compressed WAVE files.

Stereo ADPCM WAVE files have the channels interleaved differently than AIFF files and have fewer predictor bytes, which is a significant enough difference that the Apple IMA decompressor will not decompress them and produce the same sound as the Microsoft ADPCM decompressor would. The Microsoft ADPCM decompressor will not decompress a stereo IMA AIFF file as the Apple IMA decompressor would unless it is modified to take into account the different channel interleaving and predictor bytes.

Because the Apple IMA compressor makes use of the high bit of the low byte in the predictor word for the predicted sample (to double its precision) and the Microsoft IMA compressor treats this bit as part of the value of the step index, it is likely that the step index will be invalid most of the time if the Microsoft ADPCM decompressor is dealing with an Apple IMA compressed sound.

The step index is likely to be invalid because, depending on what the value of the predicted sample is, the high bit of the low byte of the predictor word (the least significant bit of the predicted sample) may or may not be set. Because the Microsoft ADPCM decompressor takes all 8 bits of the low byte of the predictor word, instead of only the low 7 bits (which are all that are needed; the step index's possible range is from 0 to 88, inclusive), having the high bit set will automatically make the index out of range, which may cause the decompressor to stop decompressing data.

Differences in Resulting Data at the Nibble Level

Inspection of the same data compressed using Apple's IMA compressor and Microsoft's ADPCM compressor shows differences in the resulting data at the nibble level. The difference in the resulting data is often not major: if the data is different, it is usually only off by one value plus or minus. Examining the public Microsoft IMAADPCM.C file shows that the imaadpcmFastEncode and imaadpcmSampleEncode algorithms are not exactly the same as that published by IMA, but I have not attempted to trace execution of sample data to determine where the algorithm is producing different data. When played back through the correct decompressor, the two sounds sound identical.

The Bottom Line

What this means is that if you were to go to all the work of converting from one file format to the other -- for example, converting a WAVE file to AIFF file -- you would find that when you decompressed the sound, the resulting sound would be slightly different, though the change might not be audible.