Hituup said:
How do you know if the guy didn't feel guilty after "Allegedly" partaking in negative things. Were you in his shoes? Were you in his mind? Are you psychic enough to know that he only felt redemption in prison?
[I]One part of redemption is feeling sorry for the actions you have done and as such not wanting to repeat them, but tookie did right up until he was caught and as such did not show redemption until he was in a postion where he physically could not repeat his actions (prison)[/I]
Show me where there is proof that Stanley Williams killed 4 men. This guy until this day maintains his innocence. And what are you saying??!! Are you trying to tell me you believe in the philosophy of tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye. Basically you believe that two negatives makes a right.
A trial found him guilty and America has a very good justice system, wheres youre proof hes innocent? cos he said so? yes i do agree with an eye for an eye just as the bible states, but no i don't think two wrongs make a right but in tookies case i don't see anything "wrong" with implementing the justice system (in this case the death penalty) on a guilty man so the only wrong was tookies actions
Like you said, those 4 men will never comeback. So what good is it to take the life of a man that is a nobel peace prize winner and can possibly reverse the negativity he help bring into society. If this guy is powerful enough to spark an organization that has turned into gangs all over, then this very same man can stop future killings of millions of future gangbangers and prevent thousands to million more males from going to jail and seeing the casket. What good will killing this man do for society if the four young men, he "allegedly" killed will not come back.
The presence of justice to an offender has been funbdamentally shown to help the grieving process of the victim or their family thats one way it will help, also it will stop a dangerous and violent man being free on the streets again.
You seem to believe in the punishment theory rather than reformation. Prison should not be a place of punishment, it should be a place of therapy and reformation. Tookie deserves a second chance at life because I see the potential in this man. Who else do you know, besides the co-founder of the crips that can actually talk to these gang leaders and persuade them to change their life?
As i stated earlier i believe in redemption up to a point, tookies case is beyond this, imagine society if prison was not punishment at all, as you apppear to be promoting would you want to live there if the only repercussions for killing someone were councilling?? As for tookie helping end gang violence come on, you can't really believe one old mans story books will end gang violence?? if so youre very ignorant or naive.
George Bush has killed thousands & thousands of innocent people for free and has gained no cause or probably no regrets from it, but he has been given a second chance as president, so why the hell can't Tookie Williams, who maintains his innocence be granted his freedom and help save the youths from destruction.
Thats a good point but im not american, and if i was i sure wouldn't vote republican so what can i say??
And yes, if Tookie didn't start the crips as an organization, it would've been something else in place of the crips. That was not his basis. "If I don't start a gang someone else will, so I should start one." If that's what you are thinking, you are mistaken. And no that's not what I implied.
i think you misunderstood me here, i never said tookie excuses his actions because if the crips were not there some other gang would be, thats how you excused the crips in a earlier post.
For the last time, the organization wasn't created on the back of negativity. What you need to understand is that the crips were trying to be another offshoot of the panthers. If C.R.I.P didn't come into place, something else would've. What I mean by this is if there weren't Latin Kings, then there probably would be the Hispanic mafia or somthing like that. At the time period of this formation, there was a hunger for some type of leadership to emerge, so eventually someone would've probably tried to gather up all the local gangs and form some type of black revolution in Cali. Incase, you don't know, after the panthers were dismantled, their were plenty of guys with guns on the streets. It just so happened that crip emerged. The formation of it becoming a was probably meant to happen, that's why it's here. If Stanley didn't exist, I'm pretty sure there would be another major gang in it's place as we speak.
Again you excuse the crips with the arguement that if it wasn't them than someone else would start a gang, so what?? that doesn't make it any better. As i said before: so its okay if you see a wallet on the floor and you pick it up cos heh someone else was bound to do its later anyways?? do you agree with this??
Yet you want to comment on the crips organization, but from the way you sound, you don't even seem to have any true knowledge on it. You are trying to tell me that the crips was founded to slang drugs, shoot dice, show off their pistols, and killing other black men. Are you telling me that was to be the foundation of this organization when it was being formed. C'mon man. Do research. Most movements, if not all created in the 60's by blacks were to help uplift blacks in the community and put an end to their oppression. No way in hell can you compare, the crip foundation to the Nazi organization, whose purpose was to destroy an ethnicity of people.
[I]One part of redemption is feeling sorry for the actions you have done and as such not wanting to repeat them, but tookie did right up until he was caught and as such did not show redemption until he was in a postion where he physically could not repeat his actions (prison)[/I]
Show me where there is proof that Stanley Williams killed 4 men. This guy until this day maintains his innocence. And what are you saying??!! Are you trying to tell me you believe in the philosophy of tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye. Basically you believe that two negatives makes a right.
A trial found him guilty and America has a very good justice system, wheres youre proof hes innocent? cos he said so? yes i do agree with an eye for an eye just as the bible states, but no i don't think two wrongs make a right but in tookies case i don't see anything "wrong" with implementing the justice system (in this case the death penalty) on a guilty man so the only wrong was tookies actions
Like you said, those 4 men will never comeback. So what good is it to take the life of a man that is a nobel peace prize winner and can possibly reverse the negativity he help bring into society. If this guy is powerful enough to spark an organization that has turned into gangs all over, then this very same man can stop future killings of millions of future gangbangers and prevent thousands to million more males from going to jail and seeing the casket. What good will killing this man do for society if the four young men, he "allegedly" killed will not come back.
The presence of justice to an offender has been funbdamentally shown to help the grieving process of the victim or their family thats one way it will help, also it will stop a dangerous and violent man being free on the streets again.
You seem to believe in the punishment theory rather than reformation. Prison should not be a place of punishment, it should be a place of therapy and reformation. Tookie deserves a second chance at life because I see the potential in this man. Who else do you know, besides the co-founder of the crips that can actually talk to these gang leaders and persuade them to change their life?
As i stated earlier i believe in redemption up to a point, tookies case is beyond this, imagine society if prison was not punishment at all, as you apppear to be promoting would you want to live there if the only repercussions for killing someone were councilling?? As for tookie helping end gang violence come on, you can't really believe one old mans story books will end gang violence?? if so youre very ignorant or naive.
George Bush has killed thousands & thousands of innocent people for free and has gained no cause or probably no regrets from it, but he has been given a second chance as president, so why the hell can't Tookie Williams, who maintains his innocence be granted his freedom and help save the youths from destruction.
Thats a good point but im not american, and if i was i sure wouldn't vote republican so what can i say??
And yes, if Tookie didn't start the crips as an organization, it would've been something else in place of the crips. That was not his basis. "If I don't start a gang someone else will, so I should start one." If that's what you are thinking, you are mistaken. And no that's not what I implied.
i think you misunderstood me here, i never said tookie excuses his actions because if the crips were not there some other gang would be, thats how you excused the crips in a earlier post.
For the last time, the organization wasn't created on the back of negativity. What you need to understand is that the crips were trying to be another offshoot of the panthers. If C.R.I.P didn't come into place, something else would've. What I mean by this is if there weren't Latin Kings, then there probably would be the Hispanic mafia or somthing like that. At the time period of this formation, there was a hunger for some type of leadership to emerge, so eventually someone would've probably tried to gather up all the local gangs and form some type of black revolution in Cali. Incase, you don't know, after the panthers were dismantled, their were plenty of guys with guns on the streets. It just so happened that crip emerged. The formation of it becoming a was probably meant to happen, that's why it's here. If Stanley didn't exist, I'm pretty sure there would be another major gang in it's place as we speak.
Again you excuse the crips with the arguement that if it wasn't them than someone else would start a gang, so what?? that doesn't make it any better. As i said before: so its okay if you see a wallet on the floor and you pick it up cos heh someone else was bound to do its later anyways?? do you agree with this??
Yet you want to comment on the crips organization, but from the way you sound, you don't even seem to have any true knowledge on it. You are trying to tell me that the crips was founded to slang drugs, shoot dice, show off their pistols, and killing other black men. Are you telling me that was to be the foundation of this organization when it was being formed. C'mon man. Do research. Most movements, if not all created in the 60's by blacks were to help uplift blacks in the community and put an end to their oppression. No way in hell can you compare, the crip foundation to the Nazi organization, whose purpose was to destroy an ethnicity of people.
Again just my thoughts peace.
of course he's down with Tookie, he started them crips