Rakim to sign to Talib Kweli's label???
- Thread starter Pittsey
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yak pac fatal said:
Rakim is outdated. i barely care 4 him and his works. the only time his name is mentioned is during some type of hip hop historic documentation or something. His works on mca in 97-99 weren't on par to his works when he was doing it with Eric B. Calling Rakim a great mc is like Bobby Brown calling himself the King of R&B today. about 20 years ago, he was good, but now he's
. If Rakim wants to concrete his mark on hip hop forever he will need to winover the young crowds today because if his return doesn't spark anything in the mainstream world he can loose credibility with not only the new kid fans but the old school. The last thing Rakim needs to hear is "rakim has fallen off". Its like what the other guy said he has to prove himself all over again. And believe me trying to appeal to the independent underground market won't spark the world of hip hop or do anything significant.i think i will answer yak pac fatal's question for you..Bombsquad said:Rakim is outdated. i barely care 4 him and his works. the only time his name is mentioned is during some type of hip hop historic documentation or something. His works on mca in 97-99 weren't on par to his works when he was doing it with Eric B. Calling Rakim a great mc is like Bobby Brown calling himself the King of R&B today. about 20 years ago, he was good, but now he's
yes, you is stupid
i'm not typing my posts over again, so just go read them
i also recommend reaidng this: http://www.2pacboard.com/forum/thread144214.html
Next, I recommend you buy The 18th Letter so you know what you're talking about.
AmerikazMost said:
OK, first of all there is no need to even read what you've wrote because so far plenty of things you've written hasn't made more sense than the person you were going back& forth with earlier. And what you were born in 1986. LOL. You are only a kid. What are you about 18,19. You go according to what other people say. Rakim A God and all this-you don't even have a mind of your own. The only reason you listen to Rakim is because of word of mouth other than that you wouldn't know shit. And what type of English is yes, you is stupid. Cmon, you are trying to be gangsta over the internet! lmao.
Look at this dum line you wrote in one of your replies: He's just looking for the best way to make an impact on the game, not on the charts. That's why he left Dre.
The only reason he left Dre is because he couldn't stand to go through all the politics and waiting in line before having his album released. I suggest you do some research before making some comments like that. And like someone also said his album still isn't released and he still cant even find a record deal. Now how dum was that.
When he joined Dre he knew he would be getting mainstream attention other than that why would he have even joined him. Now go think about that.
anyone that collabos with dre gets mainstream attention but he didnt go for that...he went for dre beats, who doesnt wanna rap over dre beats?Bombsquad said:
greatest mc to rap over beats thats made by the greatest producer
^^Who says mainstream attention makes you successful as an artist? I don't know how many times people need to say it but sales dont mean shit when it comes to ART. And thats what hip-hop is, art. So why would Rakim need to win over the kiddies to concrete his mark, his mark is already there. From Nas to 50 cent, Rakim is their favorite, the greatest. So he might not go platinum, does it really matter? Illmatic has barely gone platinum, thats amongst the greatest albums ever. Rakim has stayed consistent throughout, all he has to do is keep doing the same thing. From album to album he is trying to perfect his art, the art of the emcee. Do people even realize how dumb they sound when they say he is irrelevant today or he has fallen off. Do you even realize that when people do something for the art and not far sales they can really care less. You can't be serious.
Aristotle said:
When was Rakim's last hit record? He's so consistent, but the man hasn't put out any hit records in about twenty years. The man cares about sales and money also not just the art that you people are trying to sell for Rakim. If that was the case he would've never signed to Dr.Dre in the first place. It's more than just collabos he was looking for. Apart from his art don't any of you people think he wants his name back out there? To be a great mc you have to keep up with the times like I pointed out earlier. You have to be relevant and have that appeal to the newer generations coming up other than that if you are dropping albums out of your prime and aren't catching any attention, then you should call it quits. Even Dre from Outkasts said this. People go mainstream because they want their art to be noticed, it doesn't mean you are a sellout or aren't staying true. If I were to make a painting I would want it to be as big as the Mona Lisa.
Age doesn't mean shit when it comes to recognizing quality music. No one told me to listen to Ra. I heard Ra, that's how I got into him. Before the first time I heard him on record, I never even heard his name, let alone anyone praise him. Don't talk shit on me like I can't recognize quality music. And fuck you I don't have a mind of my own. If you stick around a little longer then maybe you'll be able to figure that out instead of talking shit on one of the seasoned members of the board when you only have 26 posts.Bombsquad said:
I'm not a net gangster. I was using parallel structure in reflecting the question posed by yak pac fatal to emphasize my statement. It's a literary technique most commonly used in persuasive works to highlight key points.
He didn't leave Dre because he didn't want to wait in line. He left Dre because he didn't want to go pop. He didn't want to do catchy hooks with pop beats and dumb down for the mainstream audience. I suggest you do some research. There was interview with a third party close to the situation (I forget who exactly it was) that said just that. So why did he join him to begin with? Because Dre's one of the greatest producers ever. Neither of them knew it wouldn't work out.
Also, they still plan to work together in the future. Ra will just not be on the label.
There's an old idea that says it's worse to know a little bit about everything than it is to know nothing at all. Why? Because the person who knows a little bit thinks he knows everything. You, sir, are that person.
This is beyond hip-hop.Rakim said:
Rakim said:
He should start writing that apocalypse now, because the genre's almost topicless it seems (does the Ying Yang scream).
peace.
Was waitin for you to come in here and say something.^^
Anyways, hituup, read every other post in here. No one cares about hits, sales, limelight. We care about quality music. I can care less if Rakim is in the limelight or is getting this new generation. He is making dope music, so go on with your barage of examples of him signing to Dre, needing to be popular, and go on actually caring about it. I'll just sit here and press play.
Anyways, hituup, read every other post in here. No one cares about hits, sales, limelight. We care about quality music. I can care less if Rakim is in the limelight or is getting this new generation. He is making dope music, so go on with your barage of examples of him signing to Dre, needing to be popular, and go on actually caring about it. I'll just sit here and press play.
Aristotle said:
You may not care about all the younger generation, but in the next couple of years they'll be the ones that's carrying the torch and judging whoever's great. You guys only seem to care about yourselves. Thats not music. Music is for everyone to enjoy. You want Rakim to appeal to a certain fanbase, the real hip hop fanbase or whatever, but at the end of the day that fanbase is not as large. So far the people who defend Rakim are mostly old school fans and a couple of hardcore fans. And that is because the guy has no relevance in today's rap generation. 2pac will forever be the greatest because he can appeal to a 6 year old, a 12 year old, a 15 year old, 40 year old, a 31 year old, you name it. Rakim's name is only mentioned by a certain bracket of people. This is why I think it's important for him to make a big comeback. Because already plenty of people that are from 16-20 barely care about him. You can imagine in 20 more years. Its a good chance when you guys are older Rakim will not be mentioned as one of the top 10 mcs and you guys will be the same ones complaining while you will have forgotten that you said Rakim should screw the generation & commercialism. I mean why would you prefer him to sign to Talib Kweli's label and have his album come out quiet over Dre. If you guys were true fans you'd wish him the best because I would be pissed if an artists I like wasn't getting the proper attention. Press play all you want, but don't be mad if Rakim doesn't get his proper credibility in the future when LL is still getting his respect.
Don't you understand we don't care what everyone else thinks? We just want him to keep dropping gems - we don't care about diamonds. And we'll support any label that allows him to do his music his way.Hituup said:
I don't care what comes out on the charts, I care what comes out my speakers.
And 2Pac is not the greatest rapper of all time. He's the greatest figure in rap ever, but he's not the greatest rapper.
Hituup said:
Heh, I'm in that 16-20 category. Truthfully, i hope that in 20 years he isn't in top 10, because I want to see Hip-Hop grow and evolve to be something greater than what we can even imagine now. So new artists will take the crown, but pay respect to the founders, the makers, the pioneers.
You know I can flip this on you in so many ways but i shouldn't. We both understand what eachother is tryin to say but I can care less about commercialism, so when it boils down to it, Mike Jones will be remembered longer then Ra? As will every other shiny toothed rapper out there? I think you underestimate the power of this art. People respect music more than you think. Common' BE wasnt highly marketed or even had that much success, but it was so highly acclaimed and respected that it is already a top shelfer. Don't lose faith in the music.
AmerikazMost said:
Exactly 2pac is not the greatest rapper of all time. He's the greatest MC of all time. What other MC can can rap about diverse subject matters like pac. He can be a killer, a feminists, a thug, politician, you name it. And he does that transition very well. Don't play yourself. On a musical level he cannot be touched by any mc and I can say that boldely. If you want to talk about 2pac not being great in terms of lyrics then Rakim isn't the greatest either. There's plenty of rappers with lyrics, any rapper can play the wordplay game, so don't give me 2pac didn't have the best lyrics because if he wanted to be lyrical he could've, but he chose not to. He was more focused on his agenda of bettering the world. If you are judging mc's by lyrics alone then Jadakiss or even Cassidy would qualify in your interpretation as great mc's.
A great mc has relevance and appeal, good body of work, and brings change to music. Rakim is not relevant nor does he has appeal, so he's not a great mc. Get your head out of 1989. To you he makes good music, but he didn't stand the test of time. He's what you call a has-been. He seems to only make music for a particular fanbase, so because of that he's failed in my eyes.
And what you fail to realize is that Rakim is nothing but a rough draft of the mc's after him. He's like a typewriter and the mc's after him are like pc typing programs. He made way for the new rappers, but the invention of the typewriter made way for pc's also, but I don't see anyone calling typewriters the best. He was great years ago. He's not the best now. Give it up.
You're right, saying that is bold. Why? Because it takes a lot of balls to make a claim that's probably not true.Bombsquad said:
So let's go by your definition of great MC. I guess the top 5 MC's would be Pac, 2Pac, Tupac Shakur, Tupac, and Makaveli. Why? Because nobody else fits your definition. If being an MC was all about having multiple personalities, then it'd be a pretty limited profession. Let's completely ignore flow, rhyme skills, lyrical creativity, and complex rhyme patterns.
Your arguments are so flawed it's amazing. You say it's not all about "this," but then instead of saying it's about everything, you say it's all about "that." You cannot ignore all the aspects of being an MC. Yes, you have to have quality content and you have to be versatile with it, but you choose to ignore everything else right after telling me that I can't ignore the other aspects.
I don't know how much of Rakim you've listened to, but I take it not much. Rakim has great content over a large sphere of issues. And you want to know how well it transitions? So well that you don't even notice it.
On a musical level he can't be touched? Really? Name all the great production works he did. I don't know if you actually meant to you use the term "musically" or not, but if you did than you're an idiot. Who do you think do most of the production on the Eric B. & Rakim albums? I'll give you a hint - his name isn't Eric B.
Your charcteristics of a great MC:
Relevance
Unless inner city crime has been completely abolished and racial issues no longer exist, I have no idea what you mean when you say he's not relevant to today. I guess songs like "In the Ghetto" can't be applied to today.
And if you're talking about relevant to today's music, I guess you're right. No rappers take from Ra anymore. Contemporary East and West Coast style's don't take from his style at all. And as for his lines, no one takes from them either. Oh, wait..
"Taking off my coat, clearing my throat / My rhyme'll be kickin' it 'til I hit my last note" - Rakim, "Eric B. Is President"
"Bare witness to the dopest fucking rhyme I wrote / Taking off my coat, clearing my throat" - 2Pac, "Got My Mind Made Up"
Paid in Full - Rakim
Paper'd Up - Snoop Dogg
Appeal
No one puts it down for him in today's era of rap either. Oh, wait..
U.B.R. (Unauthorized Biography of Rakim) - Nas
"My favorite rapper used to sing, 'Check, check out my melody" - 50 Cent, "Hate It or Love It"
Great Body of Work
Paid in Full - classic
Follow the Leader - classic
Let the Rhythm Hit Em - classic
Don't Sweat the Technique - classic
The 18th Letter - classic
The Master - good
Brings Change to Music
Do I even need to argue this?
You forget that rap is what it is today because of Rakim. That alone makes him relevant to today. Not to mention your G.O.A.T. also put Ra's name or words in his music on almost every album he released when he was alive.
Your typewriter analogy is horrible. I have a better one:
Rakim is Nintendo and all of today's rappers are Xbox and Play Station 2. Most of today's kids might be playing Xbox and PS2, but at the end of the day everyone always talks about that classic Super Mario shit.
AmerikazMost said:
18th letter is not a classic son. Let me get that out of the way. Listen to alot of Rakim's work now. Like his 1st 1-3 albums are really outdated in terms of productions. Time and music changes but as of right now the production is old and his flow and rhyme styles are real old on those albums also. In my opinion Nas and 2pac have mastered his style better than him. To me it looks like you are just dickriding. If you never heard all the hype about Rakim you wouldn't be here riding him right now, so don't act as if your opinion hasn't been influenced. And Now you want to give Rakim the crown as being the greatest. Give me a break. If you want to take everything into account as being a great mc you've got to remember performance. Performance wise Rakim rocks crowds to sleep and don't tell me you've been to one of his shows like I have because I can tell you first hand. Not too mention he has the worst low voice for a performance. It's official man you've lost your mind. And for the record Rakim could not keep up with the performers of the 90's, this is why you barely heard from him when guys like Big, Jay, Pac, or Nas were rhyming. Those guys right there have all borrowed from Rakim, but they'll put Rakim's ass to sleep. Listen to Rakim's music and then put in any of those guys songs in your player and you'll see that Rakim lacks emotion, energy, and even tight delivery at times. Any mc that is great can be able to keep up. The only time Rakim has kept up was in the 80's. So far your judgement on him has come from lyrics and so called classic albums, but you can't take into account what he has done since his prime. He's done nothing. This is not my definition of a great mc. Apart from him inspiring a whole generation, putting out so called classics, and coming with a new way to approach the mic you also have to take into consideration that he can't perform, has no appeal, has no energy in his voice, and has done nothing significant for almost the past 16 years. Rakim barely even moves units. No one I know owns any of his stuff. And don't tell me some bullshit about not caring about appeal because that is also a package when it comes down to a great mc APPEAL!! Rakim has lacked for so long this is why he never was able to make that transition or get to the highest step no matter what he's done for hip hop. He has setbacks. And you can ask any TRUE hip hop historian what I'm talking about.
And please put down your full definition of "Greatest MC" of all time. And jot down your top 5 greatest mcs.
Edit: This has gotten away from the actual argument over Rakim. Now it''s just about why an 18 year old would like him, so I'm done here.
You know what thank goodness that hituup is here. I'm glad that someone else views Rakim the same way I see him. These children who weren't around for the birth of hip hop come out of nowhere and try to discredit an MC like 2pac over a hasbeen mc like Rakim. Like the nerve of these kids to come here around Pac's anniversary and try to put someone else over him. Rakim is good, but he's old news. The thing is some of seasoned veteran kids who are board member hear some older person like an older brother or cousin talk about Rakim. Second, they decided to listen to Rakim after hearing about him on a greatest mc countdown show. Or either some of these kids here about Rakim from some internet hip hop fraud that feels they know everything
And let me explain why 2pac is the greatest mc ever.
First of all 2pac is a full packaged mc. 2pac is the epitome of what a great mc should be. He's a perfect example of how an mc should be packaged. Energetic, emotional, passion, great content, has messages, had a mission, diversity, different flows, storyteller, lyricisist, appeal you name it. 2pac has it all and because of this he is a worldwide phenomenom and because of this is considered a great mc. I've spoken to plenty of people that have listened to Pac and Rakim and when I speak to them about Pac I find out that when they started listening to pac or first started listening to Pac that they felt chills. When I listen to 2pac I can say WOW. Rakim has never gave me or plenty of people that type of awe feeling that 2pac has given me and plenty of people.
Rakim may speak about alot of scientific-political shit, but how many fans has he reached since 89. Plenty of people have listened to hip hop without listening to Rakim, but if you asks someone who's never heard Pac's music people will look at them like an alien. I'm sure if Biggie came out before Rakim, he would've changed the game also. Plenty of people have contributed to hip hop and not only Rakim. The only thing that makes Rakim different is that he has influence mc's after him, but that doesn't mean Rakim is the "GREATEST MC IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD"
Rakim is not a full packaged mc. Although he's contributed plenty in his day in terms of style. He's had that same type of rhyme style and pattern that he's used in his prime up until this day. The boring voice with the continuos rhyming. That's all his style is. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he was named "The most boring mc" ever. His refusal to make music for the globe and reinvent himself properly have all added to his demise. Even his attempt to reinvent himself failed back in 97. "Guess Who's Back". What a joke of a song. I have nothing against Rakim, but just because you want to feel more in tuned with hip hop or have some type of crediblity doesn't mean kids should come here and downplay Pac.
And let me explain why 2pac is the greatest mc ever.
First of all 2pac is a full packaged mc. 2pac is the epitome of what a great mc should be. He's a perfect example of how an mc should be packaged. Energetic, emotional, passion, great content, has messages, had a mission, diversity, different flows, storyteller, lyricisist, appeal you name it. 2pac has it all and because of this he is a worldwide phenomenom and because of this is considered a great mc. I've spoken to plenty of people that have listened to Pac and Rakim and when I speak to them about Pac I find out that when they started listening to pac or first started listening to Pac that they felt chills. When I listen to 2pac I can say WOW. Rakim has never gave me or plenty of people that type of awe feeling that 2pac has given me and plenty of people.
Rakim may speak about alot of scientific-political shit, but how many fans has he reached since 89. Plenty of people have listened to hip hop without listening to Rakim, but if you asks someone who's never heard Pac's music people will look at them like an alien. I'm sure if Biggie came out before Rakim, he would've changed the game also. Plenty of people have contributed to hip hop and not only Rakim. The only thing that makes Rakim different is that he has influence mc's after him, but that doesn't mean Rakim is the "GREATEST MC IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD"
Rakim is not a full packaged mc. Although he's contributed plenty in his day in terms of style. He's had that same type of rhyme style and pattern that he's used in his prime up until this day. The boring voice with the continuos rhyming. That's all his style is. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he was named "The most boring mc" ever. His refusal to make music for the globe and reinvent himself properly have all added to his demise. Even his attempt to reinvent himself failed back in 97. "Guess Who's Back". What a joke of a song. I have nothing against Rakim, but just because you want to feel more in tuned with hip hop or have some type of crediblity doesn't mean kids should come here and downplay Pac.
I said I was done here, but I couple things to say to Bombsquad. I'll be brief though.
2. Don't call me a kid. How old are you?
3. I said it before and I'll say it again: I got into Ra ON MY OWN. I came past one of his songs, loved it, and looked him up. No one on here or any other place on the net (this is the only board I'm on by the way) told me anything about him. Why's it so hard to believe that someone can get into him in the 2000's? Is it because it disproves your point?
I respect your opinions on Pac. I wish you and your beloved hituup would respect mine about Rakim. If you guys weren't such dicks by making this personal than maybe this conversation would be more intelligent. I love Pac. He'll always be my favorite. But I love Rakim too, and I think the only reason you're putting him down is because there were implications that he could be better than Pac. OH MY GOD! SAY IT ISN'T SO!
1. Around March 9 do you stop saying Pac is the greatest in honor of Biggie? Why should I censor my taste in music because of the date?Bombsquad said:
2. Don't call me a kid. How old are you?
3. I said it before and I'll say it again: I got into Ra ON MY OWN. I came past one of his songs, loved it, and looked him up. No one on here or any other place on the net (this is the only board I'm on by the way) told me anything about him. Why's it so hard to believe that someone can get into him in the 2000's? Is it because it disproves your point?
I respect your opinions on Pac. I wish you and your beloved hituup would respect mine about Rakim. If you guys weren't such dicks by making this personal than maybe this conversation would be more intelligent. I love Pac. He'll always be my favorite. But I love Rakim too, and I think the only reason you're putting him down is because there were implications that he could be better than Pac. OH MY GOD! SAY IT ISN'T SO!
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