Omnipotent Benevolence

[-Daniel-]

it is on topic. It is asking who is more ignorant the scientist or the religious?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Lord please forgive them for the know not what they do.

Who is more ignorant? One who understands lightening? or one who doesn't respect it's power?

It appears you have nothing to say, in which case, it would be best if you said nothing at all.

Comments like this are futile, if you want to discuss religion versus science why don't you do like Yahya did & make some intelligent points, instead of implying that.......wtf are you implying because we don't believe in God, we're going to be harmed?

When, the Rapture? Unlike yourself I have no fear of God but, in asking for our forgiveness, it appears you're pretty scared of what he can do & what kind of person worships those he is afraid of? Ah, the oppressed....while there are some who appear to be galvanized by their beliefs there are people like yourself who seem weak & use it as a prop. As you cannot stand on your own two feet or think for yourself, you welcome a quasi dictatorship, happy to bow before your shepherd.

I do not wish to argue with you as, to argue with a fool is as foolish as the fool himself. (See? I too can make grandeur statements that hold little relevance at all)


Anyway, just as Plato had rationalized, to say that 'God did it' is not to explain anything at all, but simply to offer an excuse for not having an explanation....

 

[Illuminattile]

it is on topic. It is asking who is more ignorant the scientist or the religious?

What makes you think scientists don't "respect" lightning? It's not like they're walking around saying "Don't worry, it's just electricity, it's not gonna hurt us."

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

What makes you think scientists don't "respect" lightning? It's not like they're walking around saying "Don't worry, it's just electricity, it's not gonna hurt us."

He doesn't 'think' - that's the problem.

It's actually more likely that his dumb ass is going to be walking around like, "Don't worry, it's just electricity, God won't let anything happen to me."

 

[-Daniel-]

What I'm trying to say is - there is people dismissing the idea that God is Almighty powerfull and Good Willed. And these same people are turning to man for an explanation to disasters like the recent Tsunami; the same men who only realised the earth wasn't flat only 500 years ago!

And as for people saying it was the people of the church insisting the Earth was flat, where does it say that in the Bible? Does it say "God made the earth; and it was round, God made the Sea; and it was wet and Blue.... etc"

Why believe that Earth started with a Big Bang when that 'Theory' was thought up in the last century.

Man is mortal, and man is also Dumb, in my eyes. How long will people go on to ignore what it says in the scriptures? Scriptures that has survived many of man's useless theorys and explanations.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Why believe that Earth started with a Big Bang when that 'Theory' was thought up in the last century.

This idea is retarded.

That's like saying,

Why believe in God because in the time the Bible was written, the people didn't know the Earth revolves around the sun?



I'll reiterate my previous statement, to say that 'God did it' is not to explain anything at all, but simply to offer an excuse for not having an explanation....

 

[-Daniel-]

The Big Bang theory is retarded.

I'll reiterate my previous statement, to say that 'God did it' is not to explain anything at all, but simply to offer an excuse for not having an explanation....

That's just saying you have no point of view whatsoever. I'm not trying to say God did anything.

What I'm saying is that If God is Almighty and Powerfull then what other reasons are there for human suffering? I.e. Disease, war, pain, disaster etc. That's my whole point of this thread.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

The Big Bang theory is retarded.

I was saying your argument as to why the Big Bang theory should be disregarded is retarded. If you cannot comprehend this then I retract my statement & change it to,

-Daniel- is retarded. <<<Misconstrue that...

 

[-Daniel-]

I wouldn't be surprised if I was retarded, in this day in age. At least I know myself and my views.

How does science explain retardation? How do you? You would explain retardation as something inferior to oneself. Am I right? Or do you exercise equality?

We are all God's children, no matter how disabled.

This is totally off topic.

Did I choose a topic too intellectual for your conditioned mind?

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I wouldn't be surprised if I was retarded, in this day in age. At least I know myself and my views.

How does science explain retardation? How do you? You would explain retardation as something inferior to oneself. Am I right? Or do you exercise equality?

We are all God's children, no matter how disabled.

This is totally off topic.

Did I choose a topic too intellectual for your conditioned mind?

You tried to manipulate what I said, either that or you were unable to understand a simple sentence which lead me to believe that you may be mentally retarded.

Science would tell you that the cause of retardation is to be found in genetics. You may claim it has someone to do with the person's sins.

My definition of mental retardation? When someone's mental capacity is far behind their peers.

I exercise equality in the sense that I perceive all humans, even yourself, as my brothers & sisters as we are bound by human blood. It doesn't mean I cannot have a low opinion of your intelligence or personality but when it comes down to it, I realize that we are all equal.

As for this topic being too intellectual, I ask you to read the posts of Yahya. He is someone who is on the same side of the fence as you & yet constructs his points in a compeltely differeny manner - one which makes those points coherent, sensible & also quite open-minded to objections. You see, you may have chosen an intellectual topic but you are yet to discuss it like an intellectual.

 

[-Daniel-]

Yahya is in islam, I'm Christian. We have different point of views.

As for retardation being a sin, please. Many burden's a blessing.

I may not seem to bright to you, And I may be simple. That's just me. I have no intention of being intellectually superior. What did Einstein say ' Imagination is more important than Knowledge '

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

When I said 'same side of the fence', I meant a religious man, that is all.

Regardless of which religion you subscribe to, you are both trying to put forth points that lean towards the existence of a God.

When I said that you may perceive retardation as a sin, I did so knowing that a lot of religious people have claimed this. If you do not believe this, then I apologize for my assumption.

How ironic that you should quote one of the greatest scientists in the history of man?

Ain't so useless after all, are they.....

 

[Illuminattile]

What I'm trying to say is - there is people dismissing the idea that God is Almighty powerfull and Good Willed. And these same people are turning to man for an explanation to disasters like the recent Tsunami; the same men who only realised the earth wasn't flat only 500 years ago!

500 years ago? Aristotle knew the Earth was round, and gave evidence as to why he was right. The circumference of the earth was estimated, very accurately, by 240BC.

And as for people saying it was the people of the church insisting the Earth was flat, where does it say that in the Bible? Does it say "God made the earth; and it was round, God made the Sea; and it was wet and Blue.... etc"

In fact, CHRISTIAN writers, such as Lactantius, explicitly rejected notions that the Earth was spherical, because people would "fall off". It was also argued, by Saint John Chrysostom, that a spherical Earth contradicted the scriptues. Surprised God didn't tap them on the shoulder and say "Actually..."

Why believe that Earth started with a Big Bang when that 'Theory' was thought up in the last century.

Why not? Why is the recency of the theory any reason to disbelieve it?

 

[TecK NeeX]

Why believe that Earth started with a Big Bang when that 'Theory' was thought up in the last century.

so? what difference does it make if the theory was thought up today or 500 years ago? if the theory did take place which i believe it did in the beginning, it wont matter when it was discovered now will it?

 

[Duke]

This is not a case about forgettin' but a case of trials and tribulations. From the Islamic perspective, this world is a abode of trials and tribulations. God said in the Qur'an (67:2):
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving and Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere(2:155). Similiary in (29:2), Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?.

All these verses indicate that this world is nothin' more but an abode of tests since God told us in the Qur'an that you will successfully pass them if you preserve patiently. That is the object of life and not shunning and denyin' the trials.

Additionaly, the trials constitutes of good and evil whether great or small things as God said in (21:35), Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.

The Prophet (P) has been reported to have said that the hour will not come until knowledge is taken away, earthquakes become numerous, time passes quickly, tribulations appear, chaos reigns –that is to say widespread killing; [it will not occur] until wealth becomes abundant among you, to a point where it is superfluous.


God not only created this universe but He also explains in the Qur'an how it was created (Big bang theory). Dr. Maurice Bucaille discusses that when he compares the stages of creation in the light of modern science. He discusses that in his book THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE located at
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm

The specific chapter that deals with the Creation is located at http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/16creation.htm


'bunch of shits' that contradicts His existence? That's interestin'. I want you to post one established scientific fact that opposses the existence of God. Intelligent Design which is the most plausible and supported theory thus far acknowledges the existence of God.


Are we jumpin' on the stereotype wagon. I'd love to debate about religion, particulary Islam. I've never ignored arguments when it comes to religion. Perhaps we could discuss any arguments that you've got when it comes to Islam. Can you point out any incompatibly with Modern Science in the Qur'an. I'd also like to point out that if you can meet the challenge of producin' ONE surah (Chapter) as Allah SWT said in the Qur'an:
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.

If you flat out reject the Qur'an, then the challenge of producin' a Chapter would be quite simple. And yet many have tried and failed throughout the last 1400 years.

Also, like I mentioned in many threads, reasonin' and the pursuit of knowledge has always been emphasised in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. Ergo, why the ancient Muslims were so eager to learn and research.

Peace

http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/b/bucaille-mn.htm

During the last three decades of the twentieth century, a number of social, political and economic factors contributed to the spread and popularity of such literature. Various state-sponsored institutions have organized conferences and seminars in which scientists link specific verses of the Qur’an to specific data and theories of modern science to prove (i) that the Qur’an is really a book of God, revealed to the Prophet of Islam because such specific scientific information was unknown during his life and (ii) that the Qur’an contains all scientific knowledge and it is for science and scientists to discover this knowledge. This approach is encumbered with an emotional, psychological, even political, baggage and has been opposed and challenged by serious scholarship. But its mass popularity remains uncontestable. This has given rise to a great deal of apologetic literature, including hundreds of websites which attempt to prove that the Qur’an is, in fact, the word of God because it contains scientific theories and facts which modern science has only recently discovered.

So mr. Bucaille isn't exactly 100% trustworthy.

Can you point out any incompatibly with Modern Science in the Qur'an.

No, because my knowledge of both modern science and the quran isn't nearly extensive enough to do that. Not to mention i'm lacking the time to do extensive research.

That said, I don't flat out deny the possibility of a God or any other form of deity. I don't know 100%. For that matter i'm more agnostic than atheistic. Also, i'd lean much more towards the Islamic side than the Christian one. More so because, when people like Bucaille and other scientists, find evidence in the quran of actual scientific "things", enough to stir up debates and create uncertainty, that lets me know that we are pretty ignorant so far and the possibility of a deity being the start of it all is something i'd have to consider.

If a deity set things in motion (f.e. through a "Big Bang"), and then kicked back and let nature/science run it's magic to establish order, i'd have peace with that. What i am so fully against is the notion of a deity doing all sorts of magical things without a scrap of proof. Feel what i'm saying? Like, creating the Earth in X days, and then God snapped his fingers and lo and behold, man was made. That i consider bullshit. Why? Because there's no proof at all.

However, if God instigated a Big Bang and made a grand scheme to have little bacterias evolve into man, damn, that'd be dope! Evolutionism and creationism combined in one. Then that is something i could believe in.

 

[-Daniel-]

Christians assumed the earth was flat in regards to Revelation 7:1. So it's easy to see why they thought of a earth that's flat.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

I was wrong claiming the earth was discovered round about 500 years ago. I got different info. I was mistaken.

I like science in some respects, when I'm cooking for example.

However: as for the Big Bang theory, it's just trying to deny the existence of God. I disregard it, until I see otherwise, because I beleive there are things we humans will never know for certain. Reason being there are too many contradictions for us to have one specific point of view. Reality does hold a sense of duality.

 

[Duke]

Revelation, Chapter 7



7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Why would God allow his own holy book to confuse his faithful flock?

Oh yeah, his ways are mysterious. I forgot.

 

[Minardi]

Your views please.


I believe things like Twin Towers and Tsunami serve a purpose that is inciting The Whole World to remember God.

So if bombed new york, it would be a sign from God???
if so, why be mad at Bush??? its God's work

If actions by a few people (Al qaeda as an examble), can be excused with "it was God, not us", then theres no real criminals in this world, because its only Gods work...

And if your God feels the need to act this way, then im heading to hell.

 

[Illuminattile]

However: as for the Big Bang theory, it's just trying to deny the existence of God. I disregard it, until I see otherwise, because I beleive there are things we humans will never know for certain. Reason being there are too many contradictions for us to have one specific point of view. Reality does hold a sense of duality.

I don't think so at all. As Yahya will tell you, it's compatible with Islam. Obviously I don't believe in God, but I don't think Big Bang is an attack on religion. I don't think you should disregard it purely because it contradicts what you believe. That's pretty much admitting that you blindly believe in God and that nothing will be able to persuade you otherwise.

 

[-Daniel-]

So if bombed new york, it would be a sign from God???
if so, why be mad at Bush??? its God's work

...

And if your God feels the need to act this way, then im heading to hell.

That's the contradiction! If God is Almighty Powerfull and good willed then why would something so terrible (in human eyes) happen?

I can honestly say that of God, not one person walking this earth can comprehend such an entity. Yes people by the thousands may have been killed (in flesh), but if God is part of your or anybody's world then those people had to be in God's hands.

A tsunami certainly has demonstrated an enormous strength to effect peoples lives. And if everything happens for a reason then what reason has this?