Content is a weak rapper's crutch.
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i like club songs but they don't last in my collection as long.....
*trying to think of a club song i liked in 2002.....
but if the story is good then yeah, i'll remember it....but I think a rapper has to have a flow too, i ain't just gonna listen to it just cuz he talked about something other than getting shot and getting crunk
*trying to think of a club song i liked in 2002.....
but if the story is good then yeah, i'll remember it....but I think a rapper has to have a flow too, i ain't just gonna listen to it just cuz he talked about something other than getting shot and getting crunk
very, very strongly disagree.
Content should be the first and foremost important thing not just with rappers, but with ANY time of songwriter, regardless if its rock, rap, country, whatever.
This is why Tupac is, technically speaking, the best to ever do it (in hip hop). Dude was a PHENOMINAL songwriter, and as I said before, this takes precedence first and foremost over all other attributes. Yes, flow, lyricism, story-telling, voice, and charisma are all important, but in the end, they mean little if you aint saying anything.
Like, you have Jay Z who many people call the GOAT, but he's not. Dude may have awesome lyricism, flow, and swagger on the mic, but as a songwriter, he is very average. Dude's content is repetitive and for the most part, very shallow.
Content should be the first and foremost important thing not just with rappers, but with ANY time of songwriter, regardless if its rock, rap, country, whatever.
This is why Tupac is, technically speaking, the best to ever do it (in hip hop). Dude was a PHENOMINAL songwriter, and as I said before, this takes precedence first and foremost over all other attributes. Yes, flow, lyricism, story-telling, voice, and charisma are all important, but in the end, they mean little if you aint saying anything.
Like, you have Jay Z who many people call the GOAT, but he's not. Dude may have awesome lyricism, flow, and swagger on the mic, but as a songwriter, he is very average. Dude's content is repetitive and for the most part, very shallow.
I'm not sure I should've made this thread.
This post has nothing to do with how you think hip-hop should or shouldn't be. There is already an entire literary movement of people disgruntled that Chuck D doesn't have 50 Cent status that has taken care of that. I'm concerned with reality.
I'm also not concerned with semantics games.
So, before we go on, those anyone have any problems with these assumptions?
- Doggystyle is a great record.
- It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back is a great record.
- Parts of both albums' greatness is the performance of the rappers on those records.
- 2Pac, Nas, Jay-Z, and Biggie are generally agreed to be great rappers.
- Liquid Swords is a great record.
- Only Built for Cuban Linx... is a great record.
- GZA is a better rapper than Raekwon.
- The mechanics of a rap performance include the interrelated flow, delivery, lyricism, and content, where
* Flow is the rhythm of the recitation of a line in relation to the beat
* Lyricism is the quality of the lines of the performance, including diction, intricacy of the rhymes, effectiveness at expressing the message
* Content is the message or subject matter
If not, let's continue.
This post has nothing to do with how you think hip-hop should or shouldn't be. There is already an entire literary movement of people disgruntled that Chuck D doesn't have 50 Cent status that has taken care of that. I'm concerned with reality.
I'm also not concerned with semantics games.
So, before we go on, those anyone have any problems with these assumptions?
- Doggystyle is a great record.
- It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back is a great record.
- Parts of both albums' greatness is the performance of the rappers on those records.
- 2Pac, Nas, Jay-Z, and Biggie are generally agreed to be great rappers.
- Liquid Swords is a great record.
- Only Built for Cuban Linx... is a great record.
- GZA is a better rapper than Raekwon.
- The mechanics of a rap performance include the interrelated flow, delivery, lyricism, and content, where
* Flow is the rhythm of the recitation of a line in relation to the beat
* Lyricism is the quality of the lines of the performance, including diction, intricacy of the rhymes, effectiveness at expressing the message
* Content is the message or subject matter
If not, let's continue.
in response to hellrazors post. i dont know, i dont think it boils down to just content. if someone has awesome content but theyre flow and delivery is horrible and their voice is irritating, id rather listen to someone else whos content is maybe not as good but is better in other areas. i think it all goes hand in hand
I see what you are saying, definatly a great rapper or MC should have strengths in most aspects to be considered great. Content is the first thing I look for in a artist though. If they have shallow or weak content but excell in everything else, ill listen to them, but I wont necessarily have the same respect for them as I would an artist who has excellent content but maybe just an average flow.
Can you elaborate a little?
I think in the case of someone like Immortal Technique, yeah. His content is what makes people hop on his dick and look past his shitty abilities as an MC.
I can't stand the whole pretentiousness about the importance of content. I believe content doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a rapper. Coming up with something interesting to talk about is a quality that has nothing to do with emceeing.
I think in the case of someone like Immortal Technique, yeah. His content is what makes people hop on his dick and look past his shitty abilities as an MC.
I can't stand the whole pretentiousness about the importance of content. I believe content doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a rapper. Coming up with something interesting to talk about is a quality that has nothing to do with emceeing.
I agree, if the weak rapper didn't have the content, chances are they wouldn't be known...And that goes for whatever content they do have, whether it be political, deep/meaningful, or pimp shit. There is a corner of the market where someone will have an interest in your message.
So my feelings are that a weak rapper's noteriety is obviously not due to their skills, but more likely the result of their content, but other things such as their charisma, personality and who they came up around are sure to be significant factors also.
But for me, the content of a rapper outweighs skills almost. If I have no interest in what they are talking about, then I really am not going to have any motivation to listen to them, but for me content is not necessarily so much concepts, meaning etc. as (for instance) the material which fills DOOM's bars (associations, references etc.) is certainly enough to satiate my musical apetite.
But are those who rely on content becoming irrelevant? Like, kind of a dying breed. I don't know because I wasn't knowing anything coming out prior to the mid-to-late 90s, but from however limited sample I have of it, it seems that content played a much larger part (excl. a gang of the Native Tongues stuff etc.), and with the rise of the South, it seems to be becoming increasingly meaningless.
Damn, this inability to form coherent points is going to inhibit me terribly in life
.
I can't explain why I favor content so much, but it is there. And I know a lot of people don't see the line between content and delivery, but they just don't see it. To me the line is blurred in terms of who I choose to listen to, but I can clearly see that content has nothing to do with skills, but then again I don't necessarily listen to something because it is the best, or even high quality. I listen to whatever I feel, and that may be content over skill or even quality. It's like literature, I have an extreme interest in certain themes in books and poems, but that is not necessarily related to the actual level of the author's articulation. If they are talking about something which I have absolutely no interest in, I am not going to read it, no matter how nice the language is. I think people just get confused with what they like to listen to and the quality of what it is. Hence the inability to see through Immortal Technique.
So my feelings are that a weak rapper's noteriety is obviously not due to their skills, but more likely the result of their content, but other things such as their charisma, personality and who they came up around are sure to be significant factors also.
But for me, the content of a rapper outweighs skills almost. If I have no interest in what they are talking about, then I really am not going to have any motivation to listen to them, but for me content is not necessarily so much concepts, meaning etc. as (for instance) the material which fills DOOM's bars (associations, references etc.) is certainly enough to satiate my musical apetite.
But are those who rely on content becoming irrelevant? Like, kind of a dying breed. I don't know because I wasn't knowing anything coming out prior to the mid-to-late 90s, but from however limited sample I have of it, it seems that content played a much larger part (excl. a gang of the Native Tongues stuff etc.), and with the rise of the South, it seems to be becoming increasingly meaningless.
Damn, this inability to form coherent points is going to inhibit me terribly in life
.I can't explain why I favor content so much, but it is there. And I know a lot of people don't see the line between content and delivery, but they just don't see it. To me the line is blurred in terms of who I choose to listen to, but I can clearly see that content has nothing to do with skills, but then again I don't necessarily listen to something because it is the best, or even high quality. I listen to whatever I feel, and that may be content over skill or even quality. It's like literature, I have an extreme interest in certain themes in books and poems, but that is not necessarily related to the actual level of the author's articulation. If they are talking about something which I have absolutely no interest in, I am not going to read it, no matter how nice the language is. I think people just get confused with what they like to listen to and the quality of what it is. Hence the inability to see through Immortal Technique.
You need content, but at the same time you need flow/rhymes and personality too. It's all about balance, which in my mind is a delicate word in hip-hop..
not many rappers can balance all these attributes and then there's the one's who can yet can't gives us a solid album. I think when you narrow it down to balance (content, flow, rhymes, presence, quality) you can somewhat divide the greats from the rest. Though that does not ALWAYS apply in some cases.
peace.
not many rappers can balance all these attributes and then there's the one's who can yet can't gives us a solid album. I think when you narrow it down to balance (content, flow, rhymes, presence, quality) you can somewhat divide the greats from the rest. Though that does not ALWAYS apply in some cases.
peace.
The thing is, EVERY rapper and MC has a flaw of some sort. EVERY single one. There is no such thing as the perfect rapper or MC. Even the greatest ones have flaws. A few examples:
Nas - dude's voice is very monotone and can make some of his music boring to listen to. Dont get me wrong, he is one of my all time favorites, but his voice is a drawback. Also, he isnt good at making commercial songs.
Jay Z - The very subject of this thread is his weakness: dude has very little substance in his rhymes, and this is definatly a weakness, a very big weakness at that.
Guru - He is an artist who has AWESOME content, but little personality and charisma, plus a monotone voice. He's one of those artists who spits knowledge but you have to be in the mood to listen to him.
Pac - Probably the most complete hip hop artist of all time, his only weakness was in the skills department. Content is most definatly there, has one of the most recognized voices ever, arguably the most charasmatic MC of all time, and flow wise he wasnt the best but he could most definatly flow. Alot of people will try to discredit him because he chose to keep his lyrics simple and straight forward.
I rate content to be much more important then skills. Because in rock, country, jazz, RnB, there is no such thing as "skills", its all about songwriting and I see no reason why hip hop should be seen as different.
Ultimatly, there is a difference between being a great MC and being a great ARTIST. Being a great artist, is IMO, much more difficult.
Nas - dude's voice is very monotone and can make some of his music boring to listen to. Dont get me wrong, he is one of my all time favorites, but his voice is a drawback. Also, he isnt good at making commercial songs.
Jay Z - The very subject of this thread is his weakness: dude has very little substance in his rhymes, and this is definatly a weakness, a very big weakness at that.
Guru - He is an artist who has AWESOME content, but little personality and charisma, plus a monotone voice. He's one of those artists who spits knowledge but you have to be in the mood to listen to him.
Pac - Probably the most complete hip hop artist of all time, his only weakness was in the skills department. Content is most definatly there, has one of the most recognized voices ever, arguably the most charasmatic MC of all time, and flow wise he wasnt the best but he could most definatly flow. Alot of people will try to discredit him because he chose to keep his lyrics simple and straight forward.
I rate content to be much more important then skills. Because in rock, country, jazz, RnB, there is no such thing as "skills", its all about songwriting and I see no reason why hip hop should be seen as different.
Ultimatly, there is a difference between being a great MC and being a great ARTIST. Being a great artist, is IMO, much more difficult.
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