Technology Android

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, I agree with your points. But you don't see Apple as being different today than what they were back in..96? When Jobs was fired? More money, a more diverse lineup of products? More success in general?
Absolutely. But here's what seems apparent to me. Apple is, almost without question, the #1 tech company of the 00's. (2000-2009). Due to the success of the iPod range, iPhone, etc. But there's no synergy between any of their products, there's very little web presence, and in this decade, the web is the most crucial tool. Their closed-nature means they're always gonna hit a brick wall sooner or later. Apple were headed for trouble even with Jobs there. Their main market, the music industry hates them and they're about to get bitchslapped by Google Music and the upcoming launch of Spotify in the US. It's already happened here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Spotify's growth is insane. Who the fuck needs iTunes when you have Spotify and more important, Spotify Mobile? The only downside to that is the cost. Which I think, is where Google Music comes in and offers the same service with more functionality for free.

The inter-connectedness of Google's products is too much for Apple to compete with. They can't compete with Search (an important factor because of course Google can basically predict the future, where people's interests and frustations are based upon analysis of search results). They can't compete with YouTube, where again the analysis of search and statistics basically DEFINE the entire planet in every aspect. They can't compete with Maps, whose location statistics are invaluable in terms of what locations are popular, which is a big part of their upcoming "Google Deals" application, offering deals and coupons to visitors of businesses and helping to provide relevant search content. They can't compete with Gmail. And, as I've said from the start - they can't compete with Android in terms of it's business model and they will be relegated to a minority market share like they have been with OSX.

And about MacOS, that's a huge part of the company, but what about reports of the iPad generating enough revenue to be its own company? Sure, a good bit of hipsters buy an iPad for the fuck of it, but I know plenty of people that use it professionally, as a physician, engineer, etc. Sure, there are other tablets but again, back to the popularity thing, the iPad was first and got a strong hold of the tablet market, much like the iPhone did. These upcoming Android tablets, especially those with the Tegra 2, look to really make a dent, especially since the iPad 2 specs haven't been released yet, but I think it'll take some time.
One of the main differences between Apple and Google as I see it, is that Apple releases things too early. The iPad ain't good enough. It just isn't. I brought one back from the States last May for my cousin. Last week, he sold it. It wasn't getting used. It's not powerful enough for any serious tasks. We had hoped to use it professionally with the band. But the only decent thing we got out of it, was ONE bassline that's gonna be on a track on our new album. There's too much latency to use it for professional audio. I guess because they didn't put a decent soundchip in there. And a lot of the music apps suffer because the filesystem isn't open. There's no easy way to load up your own sounds in sampler apps, etc. So he sold it. I've heard the same complaints from people in different fields. It's too closed to be useful in many ways. It only excels at SIMPLE tasks, and consuming content rather than creating it.

Android tablets are the future for the same reason Android phones are. The open nature. Example - have you used the WiiRemote app? It let's you use a WiiMote as the control interface for any Android app. The other day, I was playing emulators on my G2 using the Wii Classic Controller (basically looks like a SNES controller). Imagine doing something like on the XOOM - it would be epic. I mean, sure you can probably do this on iOS but you have to jailbreak it, then open up the filesystem via SSH to put ROMs in specific folders and all this other shit which most people aren't gonna do. Android is open enough whereby anyone can write a driver to make hardware work and then it's right there. There's a million ways that can be used. With the USB inputs, you just need a simple USB host driver and Android can then support any USB device on the planet with the right drivers. Unlike Apple who force you to use THEIR small range of accessories and what not.

Yes, Android tablets will take some time to overcome the iPad. For sure. It'll take at least a year. But it WILL happen. The first Android tablet isn't out yet. I don't count the Galaxy Tab or others like the Notion Ink because they don't have Honeycomb and aren't sanctioned by Google. So it makes me think back to September 08, a month before the G1 came out. The tech world was buzzing about a new operating system, but we all knew it was going to take a couple of years to become a threat to anyone. And look where we're at now. I predict the same for Android tablets, but in a shorter space of time. It's the same deal. A number game. A range of great hardware from the likes of Moto, HTC, Samsung, LG, Sony etc.


No doubt, I think Apple is gonna be eclipsed again, I guess it's their fault for letting the phone market go with just one phone and the tablet market go with just one tablet (3G vs. WiFi, I don't think, really counts).

Oh well, more power to em. It would be quite a fall for Apple this time around, if it were to happen. At least last time, not many people owned Macs in relation to Windows.
I think it's inevitable at this point. The problem with Apple is that they always think they can take on the world alone. And because of that, they are getting trapped inside their own box and not thinking outside of it. They aren't open to any other ways of thinking - it's their way or the highway. They've used the market share advantage in the music industry to try and force their methods onto other companies who have had to comply. Like I said, the music industry HATES them. Whenever I talk to execs and people at labels I hear the same thing. I can only imagine the same applies in other areas. And it has been pissing people off for the better part of the last decade. It's about to come back and bite them in the ass.

Jobs was much more useful when Apple had to grow and find its own direction. Now they have their position settled in the mainstream but Jobs has that amazing ability to sell piece-of-shit products as the-most-awesome-thing-ever. A lot of Apple products would fail without him.

In short, with Steve Jobs even the most stupid idea gets sold, people want it despite the fact that nobody needs it and the market follows with their better versions of that because Apple can't do things really well but people still buy Apple because "it's the original and it's Apple".
Without Jobs I think that Apple couldn't launch new products with the same success and people wouldn't get blinded to buy them to the same extent. The competition wouldn't really be so desperate to follow and they would move their own ways.

Bare in mind that Apple products aren't what you buy driven by a reasonable and educated decision. People buy them because Apple makes them want it and Jobs is what creates that "magic".
This is so fucking true. It's been said before, but Jobs operates like the leader of a cult, and the fanboys lap it up. He's a master of language, subtle body language, and manipulating what people believe. Distorting the truth for his own gains.

I've seen and heard so many Apple fans repeating his phrases verbatim. Like some sort of mantra. It's pretty disturbing.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Jobs was much more useful when Apple had to grow and find its own direction. Now they have their position settled in the mainstream but Jobs has that amazing ability to sell piece-of-shit products as the-most-awesome-thing-ever. A lot of Apple products would fail without him.

In short, with Steve Jobs even the most stupid idea gets sold, people want it despite the fact that nobody needs it and the market follows with their better versions of that because Apple can't do things really well but people still buy Apple because "it's the original and it's Apple".
Without Jobs I think that Apple couldn't launch new products with the same success and people wouldn't get blinded to buy them to the same extent. The competition wouldn't really be so desperate to follow and they would move their own ways.

Bare in mind that Apple products aren't what you buy driven by a reasonable and educated decision. People buy them because Apple makes them want it and Jobs is what creates that "magic".


Absolutely. But here's what seems apparent to me. Apple is, almost without question, the #1 tech company of the 00's. (2000-2009). Due to the success of the iPod range, iPhone, etc. But there's no synergy between any of their products, there's very little web presence, and in this decade, the web is the most crucial tool. Their closed-nature means they're always gonna hit a brick wall sooner or later. Apple were headed for trouble even with Jobs there. Their main market, the music industry hates them and they're about to get bitchslapped by Google Music and the upcoming launch of Spotify in the US. It's already happened here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Spotify's growth is insane. Who the fuck needs iTunes when you have Spotify and more important, Spotify Mobile? The only downside to that is the cost. Which I think, is where Google Music comes in and offers the same service with more functionality for free.

The inter-connectedness of Google's products is too much for Apple to compete with. They can't compete with Search (an important factor because of course Google can basically predict the future, where people's interests and frustations are based upon analysis of search results). They can't compete with YouTube, where again the analysis of search and statistics basically DEFINE the entire planet in every aspect. They can't compete with Maps, whose location statistics are invaluable in terms of what locations are popular, which is a big part of their upcoming "Google Deals" application, offering deals and coupons to visitors of businesses and helping to provide relevant search content. They can't compete with Gmail. And, as I've said from the start - they can't compete with Android in terms of it's business model and they will be relegated to a minority market share like they have been with OSX.



One of the main differences between Apple and Google as I see it, is that Apple releases things too early. The iPad ain't good enough. It just isn't. I brought one back from the States last May for my cousin. Last week, he sold it. It wasn't getting used. It's not powerful enough for any serious tasks. We had hoped to use it professionally with the band. But the only decent thing we got out of it, was ONE bassline that's gonna be on a track on our new album. There's too much latency to use it for professional audio. I guess because they didn't put a decent soundchip in there. And a lot of the music apps suffer because the filesystem isn't open. There's no easy way to load up your own sounds in sampler apps, etc. So he sold it. I've heard the same complaints from people in different fields. It's too closed to be useful in many ways. It only excels at SIMPLE tasks, and consuming content rather than creating it.

Android tablets are the future for the same reason Android phones are. The open nature. Example - have you used the WiiRemote app? It let's you use a WiiMote as the control interface for any Android app. The other day, I was playing emulators on my G2 using the Wii Classic Controller (basically looks like a SNES controller). Imagine doing something like on the XOOM - it would be epic. I mean, sure you can probably do this on iOS but you have to jailbreak it, then open up the filesystem via SSH to put ROMs in specific folders and all this other shit which most people aren't gonna do. Android is open enough whereby anyone can write a driver to make hardware work and then it's right there. There's a million ways that can be used. With the USB inputs, you just need a simple USB host driver and Android can then support any USB device on the planet with the right drivers. Unlike Apple who force you to use THEIR small range of accessories and what not.

Yes, Android tablets will take some time to overcome the iPad. For sure. It'll take at least a year. But it WILL happen. The first Android tablet isn't out yet. I don't count the Galaxy Tab or others like the Notion Ink because they don't have Honeycomb and aren't sanctioned by Google. So it makes me think back to September 08, a month before the G1 came out. The tech world was buzzing about a new operating system, but we all knew it was going to take a couple of years to become a threat to anyone. And look where we're at now. I predict the same for Android tablets, but in a shorter space of time. It's the same deal. A number game. A range of great hardware from the likes of Moto, HTC, Samsung, LG, Sony etc.




I think it's inevitable at this point. The problem with Apple is that they always think they can take on the world alone. And because of that, they are getting trapped inside their own box and not thinking outside of it. They aren't open to any other ways of thinking - it's their way or the highway. They've used the market share advantage in the music industry to try and force their methods onto other companies who have had to comply. Like I said, the music industry HATES them. Whenever I talk to execs and people at labels I hear the same thing. I can only imagine the same applies in other areas. And it has been pissing people off for the better part of the last decade. It's about to come back and bite them in the ass.



This is so fucking true. It's been said before, but Jobs operates like the leader of a cult, and the fanboys lap it up. He's a master of language, subtle body language, and manipulating what people believe. Distorting the truth for his own gains.

I've seen and heard so many Apple fans repeating his phrases verbatim. Like some sort of mantra. It's pretty disturbing.
People mention customer service you get. I read plenty of feel-good stories on Reddit and other websites where people have an older MacBook or iMac where a graphics card fails or something else happens and they are out of warranty and Apple either fixes it for free (out of warranty) or simply replaces it with a newer, better one. One reason I love my MBP is the design and how I find it superior to notebooks I see today. I like how light it is, how easy it is to carry, etc. This is a personal preference, but still, it's something that matters to me, the consumer. I also have to say that with backlit keyboard on and the screen brightness halfway up listening to iTunes and browsing using Chrome (which, for me, are the biggest memory hogs I run), I still get a good 5-6 hours away from the charger. If I'm merely word-processing, like typing notes in class, ten hours easily.

I felt that because Apple made everything in house, everything was better integrated and therefore.."just worked." I'm no Apple fanboy, but I certainly love my MBP more than I have my previous notebook. And seeing others with Windows notebooks on campus, I'm still happy with my decision to go Mac. That's why I make the distinction between mobile and PC divisions of Mac. What can they restrict on their OS? I can still run Flash, which I can't on an iPhone/iPad. Is that it?


Apple is definitely stubborn. Actually, it's just Steve that's stubborn but since he runs the company like a dictatorship, the company becomes that way as well. It's unfortunate and, yes, I am aware that the music industry hates iTunes. But with all the people that have iTunes accounts with all their music purchased from the store, are they really going to jump ship and try out Spotify? I'm not even familiar with it, but last I checked, it was UK only. Or at least not available in the States. That may have changed.

And Google Music is streaming music only, right? So it's a Pandora/Last.fm app replacement? Any clue on how expansive the music library will be? Will it essentially be as big as iTunes but just available for streaming?
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Son of a bitch, I just watched the video. I read about that streaming your music thing. That's crazy. Problem is, I have my MBP with me at all times. So I'm assuming it needs to be connected to the internet at all times. But if I'm walking on campus, with it in my backpack, that may be an issue. Oh well, the concept is really cool and I had been reading about that feature since they first mentioned Music a few months ago.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/02/01/itg-s...+TheBoyGeniusReport+(BGR+|+Boy+Genius+Report)

What were you saying about the Samsung Tab not being a Google-endorsed device? That it wasn't a Google Experience Tablet because of the lack of Honeycomb?
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
You have a MBP, which is a premium product. I would bet that almost all the Windows laptops you have seen on campus have been midrange.

The fact remains that you can get Windows notebooks that look better than a MBP, are spec'd better than an MBP, have a wider range of available software and more hardware support for a better price. That's an undeniable fact.

Mac's are about style over functionality.

13" MBP costs £1030 here. For a reasonable Core 2 Duo processor with 4GB of RAM, a reasonable graphics chip and a 250GB.

Compare that to the Samsung SF710. Which costs £1070. £40 more.
And for that - you get - Intel i7-720 processor. Quad-core, with each core clocked at 1.6 GhZ. 6GB of RAM. 1 TB HD. 17" screen. Blu-Ray Player. NVIDIA GeForce High end GPU.

It's not even close. You can get the same spec'd machines as the £1k MBP for half the price. Some of them you can even "Hackintosh" if you want OSX on there and they work flawlessly. My cousin's desktop Hackintosh machine costs £700 in parts and is more powerful than a £3k Mac machine.

Those people will try Spotify, because it's free on the desktop/laptop. And it's better. Then some of them will pony up for the Premium subscription like I did. It's not available in the States yet. But it will be soon. They signed deals with two of the 4 major labels so far and are working on the other two.

Google Music isn't just streaming. From what I understand (and things might have changed) it's a combination of the following:

1. Music Purchase System through the Android Market. No need for proprietary software or cables. All the library can be accessed through the browser and it all syncs wirelessly over the internet to all of your Android devices (Phones, Tablets, Google TV, In-car entertainment systems, etc)

2. Sync integration with other music programs. You install an add-on which synchronises your library on iTunes/Windows Media Player to your Google Music account. They already demonstrated this last year at Google I/O. In a couple of simple steps, your entire music library is accessible wherever you go.

3. On-demand streaming. This is NOTHING like Pandora or Last.FM. It's like Spotify. Pandora and Last.FM are internet radio. You don't choose your songs. They give you a playlist based upon your tastes, but it's not on-demand.

Google Music, just like Spotify does, will have a HUGE database of music from the labels, that is all on-demand, and free. I barely have any MP3's on my laptop. I don't need them, because I have Spotify.

I've given this example before, but the moment I realized on-demand streaming was the future of the music industry was in the summer of 2009. I'd been away on tour for a month, and when I was at the airport headed home, I walked into a record store and saw the new Marilyn Manson album. So I bought it and tossed it into my hand luggage. I got home, and unpacked, and turned on my computer. I sat the new CD, still in it's shrink wrap, on the desk. I looked at the CD. I looked at my monitor. And I realized that the action of unwrapping the CD, opening the package, taking the CD out, opening the drive, inserting the disc, opening the audio player program, and ripping the CD, was completely unnecessary. I just thought to myself "I'll listen to it on Spotify". So I opened the app, which took about 2 seconds, searched for the album, which took another 2 seconds, and hit play. I listened to the whole album, in great quality, with no lag and no buffering, and without any additional space being taken up on my hard drive. Every subsequent time I've listened to that album, and a great deal of others, has been the same story. That CD I purchased is still in it's shrink wrap, on my shelf.

Spotify is absolutely genius and a game-changer. I know US folks who run their entire Internet through a foreign proxy server JUST to use it. I can use it in the US without that, as I have a UK-based premium account which allows you unlimited "travelling" to countries that don't have Spotify yet. So when I'm in the US, I don't need to take any music with me.

On the mobile Spotify app, you can sync songs for offline usage too. I just synchronised 900 songs for offline playback for when I'm on the plane. It's not music that I "own" in the traditional sense because I've never paid money for those songs. But I pay for a subscription and therefore I have this ability.

I guess a logical comparison could be made with Netflix. You pay a fee and can watch whatever movies you want. But the Spotify music database is far larger than what Netflix has for movies, and I don't think you can cache Netflix stuff for offline use. And of course Netflix doesn't offer a free model either. But there are some similarities.

What were you saying about the Samsung Tab not being a Google-endorsed device? That it wasn't a Google Experience Tablet because of the lack of Honeycomb?
Yeah, pretty much. Google said from day one that Android prior to Honeycomb was not meant for tablets.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I need to give Spotify a try, then. I've never figured out how to use a proxy server but if need be, I'd do that to give it a shot.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Spotify Finally Coming to the U.S.? | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

Spotify finally landing US deals

Spotify close to a deal with EMI

In order to have as decent a music database as they have here, they'll need deals with all the big 4 labels - Sony, Universal, EMI and Warners. They already have Sony in the bag and are close with EMI, so I imagine it won't be long before Universal and Warners follow suit.

Also worth reading - another reason, if true, for people to dislike Apple. I bet this is probably true:

Spotify exec eyes Apple with suspicion | Media Maverick - CNET News

Is Apple the reason for no Spotify U.S?


If this is true, then you can see how Apple is scared shitless of this model.

Interestingly enough, Google wanted to acquire Spotify at one stage. For obvious reasons. And Spotify should have sold. Because as I said at the time, and just like what's happening with Groupon, Google will simply do the same thing, but better.

Spotify on Android is an incredible experience. Great service, great UI, great Widgets. Any and every song you can think of at the touch of a button, with no lag and no buffering. It's one of my most used apps for sure. And it's easily the most used application besides Chrome on my laptop. Google is pretty much the ONLY company that can make something better. Apple can't because they are still stuck in the "old model" of the business. iTunes is the same as record stores that have existed for decades. You hand over money in exchange for music. The only difference being it's digital. Other than that it's the same, which is why I've laughed at every article I've seen in the last decade that has tried to claim that Apple has changed the music industry. It hasn't. Spotify has, at least in the countries it's available in. And so will Google Music.
 

Flipmo

VIP Member
Staff member
Yeah, tell me about it. I'm with a small provider that's been offering me unlimited bandwidth, and now they're throwing a cap on everyone (they're. I don't go past 60 gigs a month, but still... the idea behind it is BS. That's Canada for you though, the CRTC are cocksuckers, and they are in the big providers pockets, so they make all the rules... don't get me started on cellphone plans...

Wish T-Mobile would come here and rape faces...
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, saw it on Reddit earlier. I'm sure someone could make a case for Ethiopia being even worse than that, but...

It's a shame that a lot of people used to think Canada was a great place to live, even better than the States, what with the healthcare and whatnot, and now this happens. We think it's just the internet, but this is affecting so many businesses and is going to alter the lives of many people that depend on the internet for business and such.

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm with a provided that's been offering me unlimited bandwidth, and now they're throwing a cap on everyone. I don't go past 60 gigs a month, but still... the idea behind it is BS. That's Canada for you though, the CRTC are cocksuckers, and they are in the providers pockets... don't get me started on cellphone plans...

Wish T-Mobile would come here and rape faces...
Yeah, I think you enlightened us on the three year plans and stuff. That sucks. I've come to terms with Verizon, even when they just ended the new every two thing, as being the best carrier in the US, service-wise. Phone-wise, it's pretty good too, but many can make the claim of Sprint or T-Mobile being close or better, but... I'm happy with them. Looking to switch plans to the $69.99 unlimited text and data with 450 minutes. Right now my parents pay $101.something for me alone. Need to get on that.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Opps, Casey. I confused your pic with another one I saw. Saw them both earlier but got them mixed up. This picture will add more context to my "Ethiopia" comment.

 

Flipmo

VIP Member
Staff member
Don't get me wrong it's a good place to live here, just when it comes to things like internet, cable and cellphone plan providers (usually the same companies...).. they really come in and butt fuck us. It used to be a lot worse at some point though lol.

We'll see what happens though, people are fighting this pretty hard...

Edit: I'm happy im not Bahrain
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Wow. That makes me realize how good I have it. I pay £25/month for 10MB broadband, basic cable AND a landline phone. I don't think there's a data cap at all because I've for sure had months where I've download over 50GB of data if not more. Then, I pay £35 a month for my cellphone which includes unlimited 3G internet and more minutes/texts than I can possibly ever use. We really have it good here in this respect.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
I pay £25/month for 10MB broadband, basic cable AND a landline phone.
So thats like $40 a month? That's fucking sick. I cant even get internet alone with that speed for $40 a month, maybe the first 6 months with some deal bullshit but prices basically double after that. Comcast, one of if not the biggest internet cable phone provider, has that play shit and i think it starts at upwards of $100 slow interent, basic ass cable and a landline. Ricky ridiculous
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
Although you only get about 30...I'm on 1.5 right now for roughly the same price. US is so far behind, then the companies running it are making it much worse now with all the Net Neutrality bullshit going on, frustrating
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
So thats like $40 a month? That's fucking sick. I cant even get internet alone with that speed for $40 a month, maybe the first 6 months with some deal bullshit but prices basically double after that. Comcast, one of if not the biggest internet cable phone provider, has that play shit and i think it starts at upwards of $100 slow interent, basic ass cable and a landline. Ricky ridiculous

All ISP's charge like this in the Uk. I can get a 50meg connection, unlimited with Free phone line and Cable TV for £35.

But I steal my TV and don't need a phone line anyway, as I have a mobile.
 

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