Do You Believe In God?
- Thread starter THEV1LL4N
- Start date
I never said there is more bad than good on this earth, i just mentioned that there are in fact bad things happening, more than you and i want there to be.
Now you go on and say we as human beings are capable of dealing with these problems by ourselves. Well, without getting into this question, one thing seems to be quite obvious: God made up this game to find out who deserves to get a place in heaven or hell knowing that many people will suffer for things they cant do nothing against.
Its so obvious that this is wrong that ive lost interest right now to explain why.
Even if he could or would reveal himself in some way or form i would still not "believe" (in this case it wouldnt be believing any more i guess) in him or pray to him because its just wrong what he supposedly did. To hell with him!
The answer from a muslim point of view is "No, you wont go to heaven". Im pretty sure you know that.
Duke rejected him as the one and only God and if im not mistaken this is the biggest sin in islam which God will not forgive you.
Now you go on and say we as human beings are capable of dealing with these problems by ourselves. Well, without getting into this question, one thing seems to be quite obvious: God made up this game to find out who deserves to get a place in heaven or hell knowing that many people will suffer for things they cant do nothing against.
Its so obvious that this is wrong that ive lost interest right now to explain why.
Even if he could or would reveal himself in some way or form i would still not "believe" (in this case it wouldnt be believing any more i guess) in him or pray to him because its just wrong what he supposedly did. To hell with him!
The answer from a muslim point of view is "No, you wont go to heaven". Im pretty sure you know that.
Duke rejected him as the one and only God and if im not mistaken this is the biggest sin in islam which God will not forgive you.
God intervened when he talked to Abhraham, Jesus and Mohammed. The quran also says theres many more prophets, so god intervened those times as well. In the old testament god killed people.
For a muslim I'm surprised that you talk so much about "free will" when your religion is called islam.
No, and I didn't need a book to teach me either.
God already had a say.
Sura 9:73 O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!
Help all the people you want, be the nicest guy in the world but if you die you're going straight to hell if you don't believe in allah
For a muslim I'm surprised that you talk so much about "free will" when your religion is called islam.
No, and I didn't need a book to teach me either.
God already had a say.
Sura 9:73 O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!
Help all the people you want, be the nicest guy in the world but if you die you're going straight to hell if you don't believe in allah
You losing interest hardly makes for a case.
Like you'd have a choice if he did. You'd cower before a man with a gun and yet you won't infront fo your creator? HA!.
Yes it is a sin. But still I cant play God and decide for you who gets a ride to Heaven and Hell. God is Judge, not me.
No God never did, Angel Gabriel Did, Big difference. God, Directly never spoke to anyone. Research before you speak.
Whats your point? It's called Islam yet I still embraced it out of free will, did I not? I wasnt forced to believe in it.
So than why do you need God? wow.
Stop quoting the Qur'an little by little to make them fit your argument, Its rather embarrasing. Everyone would get the wrong impression about any book If I were to quote incomplete messages and take them out of context. Unless you read the whole book, you can't use it to justify what you're arguing.
You failed to notice the beginning of that verse which begins with "O you prophet". This was one of the earlier verses which came down directly to the prophet, in times when the surrounding tribes rebeled against Islam and vowed to eliminate it. Which than explains why God commanded the prophet to strive against the disbelievers in self defence.
Verses that are directed towards us all start with "O ye mankind" and not "O you prophet".
Had the verse you quoted began with "O ye Mankind, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!" Than you'd have a point. But you're far from having one.
Later on in the same Sura you quoted. God goes on to say "Not to be blamed are those who are weak, or ill, or do not find anything to offer. The righteous among them shall not be blamed. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Like you'd have a choice if he did. You'd cower before a man with a gun and yet you won't infront fo your creator? HA!.
Yes it is a sin. But still I cant play God and decide for you who gets a ride to Heaven and Hell. God is Judge, not me.
No God never did, Angel Gabriel Did, Big difference. God, Directly never spoke to anyone. Research before you speak.
Whats your point? It's called Islam yet I still embraced it out of free will, did I not? I wasnt forced to believe in it.
So than why do you need God? wow.
Stop quoting the Qur'an little by little to make them fit your argument, Its rather embarrasing. Everyone would get the wrong impression about any book If I were to quote incomplete messages and take them out of context. Unless you read the whole book, you can't use it to justify what you're arguing.
You failed to notice the beginning of that verse which begins with "O you prophet". This was one of the earlier verses which came down directly to the prophet, in times when the surrounding tribes rebeled against Islam and vowed to eliminate it. Which than explains why God commanded the prophet to strive against the disbelievers in self defence.
Verses that are directed towards us all start with "O ye mankind" and not "O you prophet".
Had the verse you quoted began with "O ye Mankind, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!" Than you'd have a point. But you're far from having one.
Later on in the same Sura you quoted. God goes on to say "Not to be blamed are those who are weak, or ill, or do not find anything to offer. The righteous among them shall not be blamed. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
^ You can't deny that most religious scholars, by pretty much any of the big three, would see my ass in hell even if the only sin I ever committed was not believing. I could've the best and nicest motherfucker in the world but because I didn't believe in sky castles I get fucked while the child rapist who's so sorry gets to come up.
That's one of the quirks of organized religion I so hate.
I will agree with Teck, though, that quoting little parts of the Quran doesn't represent a good context of what's being said. Not so much only for the Quran but indeed any book.
That's one of the quirks of organized religion I so hate.
I will agree with Teck, though, that quoting little parts of the Quran doesn't represent a good context of what's being said. Not so much only for the Quran but indeed any book.
Gabriel was the messenger of god. Same shit. If i sent a letter in the mail to someone, would the letter be from the mailman or me?
Point is that you'll go to hell no matter what if you don't believe in god, it clearly states that in the quran. He is only forgiving to those who convert. Doesn't take a religious scholar to find that out
Point is that you'll go to hell no matter what if you don't believe in god, it clearly states that in the quran. He is only forgiving to those who convert. Doesn't take a religious scholar to find that out
I agree with you. I only want to touch on something that you said about if we all believed in the same religion, things would work. The fact that religion has some good intentions is, at least to me, undeniable. However, there is a distinct difference between having good intentions and performing good deeds. Religion is a drug that alleviates the pain of life by promising those things that many of us feel are essential to our happiness: eternal life for those who are noble and fiery hell for those who are callous.
But the fact remains that this just isn't true. It isn't true for the muslim, the christian, the jew, etc. And even if everyone on earth worshipped one god and followed one religion, there would still be the grave and fundamental problem that everyone on earth was conducting their separate lives on the basis of delusion.
I don't feel that anyone can ever find true happiness with a veil over their eyes.
It's very comforting to believe that. I wish it were true.
Precisely.
Right but there's a major difference. Those that are believing the words of Dawkins, Hitchins and Harris are doing so because it is the sound, logical decision to make based on evidence. Someone reading a holy book and taking its word is doing so only because it feels better to believe than the actual true alternative.
I'm reading that right now. It's an excellent book
I do care though. Take a moment to consider the following quotation, a response from "The Nation" upon reading Dawkins, "God Delusion."
"Dawkins outrage at the persistence of medieval ideas in the modern era is warranted. In fact, it's overdue."
But the fact remains that this just isn't true. It isn't true for the muslim, the christian, the jew, etc. And even if everyone on earth worshipped one god and followed one religion, there would still be the grave and fundamental problem that everyone on earth was conducting their separate lives on the basis of delusion.
I don't feel that anyone can ever find true happiness with a veil over their eyes.
It's very comforting to believe that. I wish it were true.
Precisely.
Right but there's a major difference. Those that are believing the words of Dawkins, Hitchins and Harris are doing so because it is the sound, logical decision to make based on evidence. Someone reading a holy book and taking its word is doing so only because it feels better to believe than the actual true alternative.
I'm reading that right now. It's an excellent book
I do care though. Take a moment to consider the following quotation, a response from "The Nation" upon reading Dawkins, "God Delusion."
"Dawkins outrage at the persistence of medieval ideas in the modern era is warranted. In fact, it's overdue."
One thing that strikes me as odd, is that even intelligent believers are so easy to dismiss evolution, while they readily accept everything else science has to offer.
The evolutional theory was developed along the same lines that every scientific discovery uses in modern times. Observation, experimentation, predictions, falsification etc etc.
So while they dismiss the work of Darwin and his successors as utter nonsense, they still live in a world, in a society that is absolutely crampacked with products and designs that suggest that the overal scientific theory might be on to something. This discussion alone, over the internet, is the result of scientific inventions.
But noooo, we can't have come from apes. That's disgusting!
*sigh*
The evolutional theory was developed along the same lines that every scientific discovery uses in modern times. Observation, experimentation, predictions, falsification etc etc.
So while they dismiss the work of Darwin and his successors as utter nonsense, they still live in a world, in a society that is absolutely crampacked with products and designs that suggest that the overal scientific theory might be on to something. This discussion alone, over the internet, is the result of scientific inventions.
But noooo, we can't have come from apes. That's disgusting!
*sigh*
This thread is about God, not about religion.
While the Darwin theory doesn't really convince me I do believe that a few hundred thousands years ago human kind looked slightly different.
It's quite sure that we're not much different than Pandas, Tigers, Monkeys and anything else that has 2 eyes, a brain, a penis and such.
There's close to no option that we come from a different source.
not-at-duke-any-more:
I got used to atheism and ignorance on this board. I also got used to mixing all the facts and stereotypes about religions.
In my whole life I have never met a "bible thumper" (though I would like to) or an intelligent religious human who would deny evolution and any other scientific facts. Hell catholicism gets along with science well. I also hate the fact that it's sort of a sect because some priest diss other religions and it is sick. Yes, many priests are brainwashed.
The point is that I don't believe that there's even 1 thinking religious human that believes in everything that his religion throws at him except a guy who invented it.
Do I believe in God? Yes
Do I believe in evolution? Yes
Am I religious? Sort of.. I believe in many things that the religion I was raised in claims but I know that most of them are total bullshit for old stupid women. Most of the bible is only a fictional story, most Catholics I know realise that.
Here where I live most people claim to be catholic while in reality most of those I know in reality are less catholic than I am. I don't know a single person who doesn't eat meat on fridays, who goes to church on sundays, who lives by the bible and by the decalogue.
It's same as like not all muslims blow themselves up. There are religions and there are sects. Misinterpretation is a bitch.
While the Darwin theory doesn't really convince me I do believe that a few hundred thousands years ago human kind looked slightly different.
It's quite sure that we're not much different than Pandas, Tigers, Monkeys and anything else that has 2 eyes, a brain, a penis and such.
There's close to no option that we come from a different source.
not-at-duke-any-more:
I got used to atheism and ignorance on this board. I also got used to mixing all the facts and stereotypes about religions.
In my whole life I have never met a "bible thumper" (though I would like to) or an intelligent religious human who would deny evolution and any other scientific facts. Hell catholicism gets along with science well. I also hate the fact that it's sort of a sect because some priest diss other religions and it is sick. Yes, many priests are brainwashed.
The point is that I don't believe that there's even 1 thinking religious human that believes in everything that his religion throws at him except a guy who invented it.
Do I believe in God? Yes
Do I believe in evolution? Yes
Am I religious? Sort of.. I believe in many things that the religion I was raised in claims but I know that most of them are total bullshit for old stupid women. Most of the bible is only a fictional story, most Catholics I know realise that.
Here where I live most people claim to be catholic while in reality most of those I know in reality are less catholic than I am. I don't know a single person who doesn't eat meat on fridays, who goes to church on sundays, who lives by the bible and by the decalogue.
It's same as like not all muslims blow themselves up. There are religions and there are sects. Misinterpretation is a bitch.
I dont believe in god the way religions makes you to do.
I was born in a very catolic family, and went to a catolic school,
but since I was 15 I guess I started to get a little pissed off about all the hipocresy, the killings in the name of god and religion being used only to make money.
I believe that there is an "energy" that rules everything, I believe in something like destiny.
Some people say this energy is god, well I respect that and thats just a name, a shape to its energy, but anyway everytime I look at the word god, it makes me think about religion. So I'd rather stay with my confused way of think about it.....
I was born in a very catolic family, and went to a catolic school,
but since I was 15 I guess I started to get a little pissed off about all the hipocresy, the killings in the name of god and religion being used only to make money.
I believe that there is an "energy" that rules everything, I believe in something like destiny.
Some people say this energy is god, well I respect that and thats just a name, a shape to its energy, but anyway everytime I look at the word god, it makes me think about religion. So I'd rather stay with my confused way of think about it.....
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