Technology Android

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
The problem is nobody uses those services. Hangouts was sort of a thing and I knew a user or two, but Allo, Duo and the rest - I don't think I've ever met anyone using them. To make a successful messenger, you actually need people who are willing to use those services. The casual masses are fine with Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger, with younger crowds also adding Snapchat to the mix, and everyone else is happy that they have everyone on 1-2 platforms without needing a 4th or 5th messenger.
Nobody really wanted those services from Google (apart from the Google yes-men), Google still made them, and then they stop supporting them because they find out nobody wants them. That's something of a trend at Google.



HTC hardware was behind literally every other remotely popular OEM at the time Google bought them. All of their greatest engineering talent that made the original HTC One S&X devices is already at Huawei, Oppo, Xiaomi and the Taiwanese computer hardware makers, with Google getting whoever was still left.

I know the US had a weird thing for HTC in some niche tech circles, with some reviewers actually having positive things to say about the One series over there, but hardly anyone bought them there, and outside of the US people thought they're generally inferior and they didn't sell at all. Their designs were a niche, "acquired" taste, with gigantic bezels, poorly calibrated LCD displays and rough around the edges metal or shiny plastic build. I could never perceive them as pretty, and while just me saying HTC One wasn't as pretty as some people seem to think is not enough, those phones simply didn't sell well. Plus they certainly weren't objectively good at fitting their hardware efficiently into a competitively sized smartphone body.

For the past 5 years, HTC wasn't even a top 20 smartphone maker by units sold OR revenue. And that is completely justified - their internal hardware design of the last 5 years was some of the worst on the market, and so was their software, to the point they struggled and never succeeded at camera image processing, which was dramatically helped by the Google acquisition, but the fact that they simply aren't competitive at hardware remained. Therefore, Google is left with mediocre hardware teams, with some really talented software teams trying to work with what they're given, which just isn't much, unfortunately.

HTC used to be quite decent, but that ended in around 2012, with the One S being their last phone that was actually objectively good and turned a profit. That was almost 7 years ago. There is no way to make a really outstanding phone with what's left there without reinvesting a lot of time and money and building things from scratch. That money wouldn't be coming from the Pixel sales, as they aren't selling many units, so Google would have to pour a lot of their own money in, so in 2 or 3 years we could see an actual contender for a market leader from them. How much sense does it make though, considering that they'd be competing with companies who are constantly pouring (or reinvesting) big money into improving their existing devices and existing top-notch hardware and software? I hope Google has a better plan than it seems.
Yeah I had the Droid Eris/Hero for a bit in 2009-2010. It felt so much more premium than the Droid but Sense was so bloated that it ruined the smoothness of the phone. But it still felt so nice in the hand.

19 other OEMs were ahead of HTC? Were a lot f those no-name, Asian companies that don’t sell internationally?
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Is it the screen or the camera of the Pixel 1 or 2 that was either washed out or just plain lagging behind the competition?
I don't know what you heard but neither of those things are true.

Most of the iPhone XS reviews - even from Apple fanboy blogs - concede that the camera on the Pixel 2 (from last year) is still better than the camera on the brand new iPhone XS and XS Max.

You might be referencing the "blue tint" that some Pixel 2 XL models had issues with at the beginning. This was an overblown issue - I've had a Pixel 2 XL since the beginning with no problem. Some people had the problem, and Google replaced them - it wasn't a huge deal.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
19 other OEMs were ahead of HTC? Were a lot f those no-name, Asian companies that don’t sell internationally?
HTC was no longer top 20 at the time of acquisition, so there were more than 19 more successful smartphone manufacturers.
I wouldn't say no-name. To put it into perspective, this is the current top 10:

1537917089647.png


As you can see the Chinese companies are the ones growing insanely fast. At this pace next year Huawei will have overtaken Samsung and Xiaomi will have overtaken Apple.

All of those companies do sell globally, just maybe not in North America, but they are otherwise huge now.
Xiaomi, which doesn't sell in North America yet, sells more phones than LG, Sony, Motorola, HTC, Blackberry, and Nokia combined, which is a sign of our times.

Now it might be harder to see from the US or Canada, but those are global companies now. Huawei and Xiaomi are third and fourth largest smartphone vendors in Europe, and they are the fastest growing manufacturers over there:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/huawe...e-shares-surge-in-europe-amid-market-decline/

Tecno is the only no-namer on the list, shipping low-end devices to Africa and poorer Asia.

As you can see, the trend is that the Chinese makers are very quickly overtaking the western companies at the moment. They are no longer no-names. Another thing to note is that the Chinese are purchasing western companies - Lenovo owns Motorola and HMD owns Nokia, which are counted towards Lenovo and HMD sales in the table above.

Oh, and to put it into perspective, HTC is expecting to ship below 2 million units of HTC branded phones in the whole of 2018. IF you also consider Pixel shipments, if they're like last year's numbers, that will be around 5 million of all HTC-made phones for the whole year, which is pretty much what Xiaomi now ships during their average week.

Another perspective is that all the companies outside of the top 10 combined ship around 350 million units per year, and they're companies like Sony, ZTE, Meizu, Foxconn brands, Asus, etc.
HTC is now so obscure, that including the Pixels, they amount to below 2% of the "Others" line.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
HTC was no longer top 20 at the time of acquisition, so there were more than 19 more successful smartphone manufacturers.
I wouldn't say no-name. To put it into perspective, this is the current top 10:

View attachment 429

As you can see the Chinese companies are the ones growing insanely fast. At this pace next year Huawei will have overtaken Samsung and Xiaomi will have overtaken Apple.

All of those companies do sell globally, just maybe not in North America, but they are otherwise huge now.
Xiaomi, which doesn't sell in North America yet, sells more phones than LG, Sony, Motorola, HTC, Blackberry, and Nokia combined, which is a sign of our times.

Now it might be harder to see from the US or Canada, but those are global companies now. Huawei and Xiaomi are third and fourth largest smartphone vendors in Europe, and they are the fastest growing manufacturers over there:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/huawe...e-shares-surge-in-europe-amid-market-decline/

Tecno is the only no-namer on the list, shipping low-end devices to Africa and poorer Asia.

As you can see, the trend is that the Chinese makers are very quickly overtaking the western companies at the moment. They are no longer no-names. Another thing to note is that the Chinese are purchasing western companies - Lenovo owns Motorola and HMD owns Nokia, which are counted towards Lenovo and HMD sales in the table above.

Oh, and to put it into perspective, HTC is expecting to ship below 2 million units of HTC branded phones in the whole of 2018. IF you also consider Pixel shipments, if they're like last year's numbers, that will be around 5 million of all HTC-made phones for the whole year, which is pretty much what Xiaomi now ships during their average week.

Another perspective is that all the companies outside of the top 10 combined ship around 350 million units per year, and they're companies like Sony, ZTE, Meizu, Foxconn brands, Asus, etc.
HTC is now so obscure, that including the Pixels, they amount to below 2% of the "Others" line.
I forget that the Pixel is HTC. I had never heard of HMD and Tecno. Or Vivo. To me, those are sort of "no name" brands even if they sell plenty overseas. I've never heard of them and they aren't promoted by carriers or the OEM themselves here in the US. But I get that they're big in Asia. I figured the fact they were Asian companies that sold predominantly in Asia sort of made them "no-name" or generic brands.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I don't know what you heard but neither of those things are true.

Most of the iPhone XS reviews - even from Apple fanboy blogs - concede that the camera on the Pixel 2 (from last year) is still better than the camera on the brand new iPhone XS and XS Max.

You might be referencing the "blue tint" that some Pixel 2 XL models had issues with at the beginning. This was an overblown issue - I've had a Pixel 2 XL since the beginning with no problem. Some people had the problem, and Google replaced them - it wasn't a huge deal.

I just did a quick Reddit search, because thats honestly where I had been reading about these issues, and the articles posted there about the issues.

Possible hardware replacement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/97stij
An RMA on high pitch noises: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/77mj50
Audio issue supposedly affecting all units: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/5j091c
Pie broke fast charging, no fix: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/9ic0mb
Google acknowledging a "popping" sound: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/5j9o2j
I admit, it may not be all Pixels affected but it's enough that Google addresses the problem and has RMAs for those phones. I'm sure other OEMs have their share of issues but the Pixels aren't selling like hot cakes and are rather niche phones, yet the complaints seem to be greater than phones that sell at much higher volumes like the Galaxy S line. Even the iPhones have their issues, but if we're talking about buying a new Android phone, the Pixel has gotten the reputation of being riddled with issues, when they do occur. Actually, the core point is that Pixel and Nexus phones, alike, have recently had some horrible shit go down with them. The 6P had boot loop issues. I think even Aron said his 6P had the issues until it died for good.

And I know Google isn't actually making the hardware but they are putting their stamp on the Nexus and Pixel phones and people assume it means quality because it's "approved" by the same people making Android. But it seems that most people are underwhelmed by the quality when the hardware issues rear their heads.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I forget that the Pixel is HTC. I had never heard of HMD and Tecno. Or Vivo. To me, those are sort of "no name" brands even if they sell plenty overseas. I've never heard of them and they aren't promoted by carriers or the OEM themselves here in the US. But I get that they're big in Asia. I figured the fact they were Asian companies that sold predominantly in Asia sort of made them "no-name" or generic brands.
HMD is just the owner of the Nokia brand, and pretty much only that. Tecno is a potato phone maker. Vivo is large. You know OnePlus. That's the smallest brand under the same umbrella as Vivo and Oppo, with OnePlus being their high-price/high-margin entry into the western markets. Vivo and Oppo are very large throughout Asia. They always have a model that's the same as a given OnePlus device, just cheaper and with different exterior designs. They also have a higher end model that's better than a given OnePlus device that's still cheaper, which at the moment is the Vivo Nex, which in many ways is quite a bit ahead of any other smartphone on the western markets at the moment:

1537961936181.png


The thing is that in the past "no-name" and sold throughout Asia meant shitty companies that are popular due only to their price. These days, those companies are making decent devices and will threaten the western makers after they enter the given markets, and for a good reason. Chinese doesn't necessarily mean inferior anymore. Those markets are becoming rich too, and the quality expectations over there have grown immensely from the rock bottom of 10 years ago.
Taiwanese products had a similar reputation when HTC came, and yet they managed to take over the US, out of all the places. Now Taiwan, despite being tiny, is the world's most advanced hub for cutting-edge hardware manufacturing. To put it into perspective, they are making 7nm processors there for Nvidia, AMD, and Apple as we speak, as they went from 20nm to 7nm in the same 4-year duration it took for Intel to drop from 14nm to 10nm, and they still didn't accomplish that successfully. Basically, the western makers are stagnating and simply getting overtaken by Eastern companies that are progressing at much quicker paces.

The same perception change will happen with the Chinese brands, except they already took over most of the non-US world, are incomparably larger, are aiming higher and are making incredible improvements to their product lines year after year.

At the moment they are amazing value devices that I wouldn't necessarily use yet, mostly due to their software not being up to par, the quality being good, but not on par with the market leaders yet. But the point is that they have been improving so fast that in a year, two, or three, they might actually outpace the current best.
Even as things are now, it's just a matter of time until the carriers over there will be fighting over those devices to add them to their roasters. That's what the carriers in Europe are already doing.
 
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masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
And I know Google isn't actually making the hardware but they are putting their stamp on the Nexus and Pixel phones and people assume it means quality because it's "approved" by the same people making Android. But it seems that most people are underwhelmed by the quality when the hardware issues rear their heads.
The point I originally forgot to make about the Pixels and HTC was that the reason we're not seeing an amazing Pixel that surpasses all competition is that Google are already punching way above their weight, selling inferior hardware for premium prices by pouring all they've got into their software and marketing, which is what they're best at. There's only so far you can go with that though, and getting that extra hardware edge is very costly, especially for devices that sell less than a fraction of what market-leading flagships do.

The Pixel hardware is mediocre at best, and it's the software that they're all about. Google bought HTC and ever since have been trying to fill the lackluster hardware with neat software tricks, exterior design covering the poor interior design and humongous bezels, and marketing targeted at the wealthy markets to create the illusion of quality and popularity. Being able to fit only weak cameras fixed by crazy software processing, mediocre screen fixed by calibration, lack of outstanding hardware features masked by software ones like the assistant integration. They are actually doing much better than expected with what they're given, and I'm sure they are very proud of themselves, as it's their A-game.
That said, it can only take you so far, and there's a lot of sacrifices in the Pixels' designs, they are having their quality issues, and when you think about it, they lack any outstanding hardware features, because their hardware expertise is simply not up to par. If you take away the software layer, what you are holding is a phone that's behind the curve. It might have the newest chipset and some other modern parts slapped together, but the way it's done and the overall hardware design is just not competitive, and that's the best they can do.

They still aren't selling well, and you can only do so much when you're already pumping money into making those sell, and not getting actual money back from the limited numbers of units sold, so it's hard to put new money into a costly and lengthy process of making top-notch hardware.
 
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Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
t the complaints seem to be greater than phones that sell at much higher volumes
Yeah, I mean that's not true at all.

The first posted you quoted from Reddit - the one that mentions ArtemR? Well, ArtemR is the owner/webmaster of AndroidPolice - by far the most popular Android blog and news resource.

And therein lies the problem. The people who buy Pixels are mostly tech folk, who will ALWAYS discuss it on the internet. At length. Because that's their first response to any problem. I should know, I'm one of them.

The average Samsung or iPhone buyer doesn't do that.

I can't speak on the original Pixel or Pixel XL from personal experience (which most of the referenced quotes are about) - because I didn't own either of them.

I do own a Pixel 2 XL, and my gf has the Pixel 2, and we don't have any issues.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
While it was even more valid during the iPhone X days, and I know it's purely a business decision, but I can't believe that Apple would agree to handicap their phones so much by including the horrible Intel modems. This is a chart for the modems used on the iPhone X and the XS:

1538557469367.png


While the download speeds for the Xs modem have improved over the horrible performance of the iPhone X chips, they still drop their connection at below 127-dBm, which (due to the logarithmic nature of this scale) is significantly below the industry standard. Basically, wherever your average phone will still have a bar or two of signal left in it, the iPhone X and XS won't work anymore.
That's on top of their infamous erratic behaviors such as network disconnects, random fallbacks to 3G, latency issues, horrible Wi-fi performance and Bluetooth disconnects, which still happen with the XS modems and are unfixable hardware issues:
https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/24/iphone-xs-wifi-lte-performance/

Those modems are really poor products (as are historically all Intel's attempts at wireless modems) which are clearly not ready to be used in any commercial devices. There are problems with them on all fronts, and even at their best, they don't perform well enough to be used in smartphones, due to their low sensitivity even at their maxed out power envelope - resulting in quick battery drain and poor signal anyway. I'm very surprised that out of all the companies Apple decided to go with them. It's a glaring quality issue that will be perceived by most users.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, Apple just can't go all out in their hardware components for just one phone, can they? Not even in their flagship X/Xs/Xr or whatever the hell they are now. Always one thing that just seems like a cost cutting measure that detracts from the full potential of the phone could be.

I don't know the technical specs or limitations of these modems or what they mean, but I do remember some buzz around the use of Intel's modems as I read it in a headline. That chart makes it look like dog shit.


Saw this on Reddit: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17933644/microsoft-android-apps-windows-10-app-mirroring-report

Made me think about our discussion about Google just not having the best hardware designs or quality as some of the other OEMs. If MS designed the phone and just ran Android, I think it would look great. Especially if they drew inspiration from their Surface line of computers and made something that looked sleek like a Sony phone and just as premium-feeling as an iPhone and the aesthetics of some of the better looking phones out there.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I caved I now own a S9 +
How are you liking it so far?

All of the companies involved strongly denied this. Bloomberg seem to stick to their story, which apparently had several independent sources behind it. I wonder what's the truth. On one hand, it's rare for companies to deny stories of such large magnitude that they would risk being proven wrong on. Less damage would be done if they just admitted that this took place. After all, it's not their fault, and hiding national security violations that affected the public would be a deadly sin in the eyes of their clients.
On another hand, Bloomberg is amongst the most reputable media outlets, they went all out with that report and they seem to be confident that it's true. It's still on their main page and occupies most of it. If it's false, they lose all of their credibility. Also, the denials make sense considering Amazon and Apple are partnering with the Pentagon, amongst others, and such news would completely fuck up all of their existing and potential future projects. A lot of money is involved, and a lot of work would be undone.

Considering how unlikely China would be to do something like this, how technically difficult it would be to integrate such additional chip into an existing board design, the anonymous sources and the denials from everyone involved and apparently affected, I feel like the story fits just way too well into the current political agenda to be actually true. The only possible outcome is that the public would believe either that "China had us completely hacked omg" or "fake news everywhere, even at Bloomberg". Hmm..
The bad news is that one of those two things is true.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
How are you liking it so far?



All of the companies involved strongly denied this. Bloomberg seem to stick to their story, which apparently had several independent sources behind it. I wonder what's the truth. On one hand, it's rare for companies to deny stories of such large magnitude that they would risk being proven wrong on. Less damage would be done if they just admitted that this took place. After all, it's not their fault, and hiding national security violations that affected the public would be a deadly sin in the eyes of their clients.
On another hand, Bloomberg is amongst the most reputable media outlets, they went all out with that report and they seem to be confident that it's true. It's still on their main page and occupies most of it. If it's false, they lose all of their credibility. Also, the denials make sense considering Amazon and Apple are partnering with the Pentagon, amongst others, and such news would completely fuck up all of their existing and potential future projects. A lot of money is involved, and a lot of work would be undone.

Considering how unlikely China would be to do something like this, how technically difficult it would be to integrate such additional chip into an existing board design, the anonymous sources and the denials from everyone involved and apparently affected, I feel like the story fits just way too well into the current political agenda to be actually true. The only possible outcome is that the public would believe either that "China had us completely hacked omg" or "fake news everywhere, even at Bloomberg". Hmm..
The bad news is that one of those two things is true.

Yeah, after the bombshell dropped, I haven't seen any follow-up to it. They are damning allegations and huge ones, too. Someone is going to end up looking real bad after this, unless there's some sort of middle ground that makes the allegations partly true but not as bad.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, after the bombshell dropped, I haven't seen any follow-up to it. They are damning allegations and huge ones, too. Someone is going to end up looking real bad after this, unless there's some sort of middle ground that makes the allegations partly true but not as bad.
Yeah, I'm very surprised that there's no follow-up, just the denials. On one hand, I still think Bloomberg is a more trustworthy source with Apple, that had a history of denying things that were clearly there and in everyone's face. Bendgate, the iPhone 8 bulging, antennagate and "you're holding it wrong" make it seem like they never admit to their faults. I just don't trust their statements, and I don't trust Amazon's statements, considering they are known to do everything to win the Pentagon contracts and didn't disclose their security being cracked unless they were obliged to by law (when they specifically discovered that user information was stolen).
On another hand, the arguments against the Bloomberg case seem to be quite strong. But they just doubled down on their case:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...hip-story-as-apple-amazon-ratchet-up-denials/
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, I'm very surprised that there's no follow-up, just the denials. On one hand, I still think Bloomberg is a more trustworthy source with Apple, that had a history of denying things that were clearly there and in everyone's face. Bendgate, the iPhone 8 bulging, antennagate and "you're holding it wrong" make it seem like they never admit to their faults. I just don't trust their statements, and I don't trust Amazon's statements, considering they are known to do everything to win the Pentagon contracts and didn't disclose their security being cracked unless they were obliged to by law (when they specifically discovered that user information was stolen).
On another hand, the arguments against the Bloomberg case seem to be quite strong. But they just doubled down on their case:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...hip-story-as-apple-amazon-ratchet-up-denials/

lol and I believe China has been mum on the situation? I could be wrong, though.


Plucking straight from Reddit, the Pixel 3 XL:

Sprint is rolling out VoLTE years after everyone else but it's still a big deal. The s7 is just left off the list of compatible devices and it's all Samsung devices after the S8. I think LG is on that list too. Not sure about the iPhones.

This makes the itch to upgrade a bit more intense. Not necessarily with Sprint because our house speeds are still not all that great (just enough to stream HD with no issue, but browsing can see some lag) but I'll gladly buy a phone outright and unlocked so I can move between carriers if need be.


Anyone else use Google News? I think the layout is a bit plain compared to Apple News, which I also use often, but it's still very nice and competitive with Apple's service. I don't check Twitter as much for news anymore after following topics and sites I like using the news services from the two. The only downside is stories open within the app and ad blockers can't reach those as well as it can on the Samsung browser or Safari. So I see a few ads but whatever is blocked still has that ad space with the "error loading" message in them.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
lol and I believe China has been mum on the situation? I could be wrong, though.
The Chinese company denied it, and I think China isn't going to respond to such accusations.

When I think about the technical side of the report, it makes less and less sense the more I read about it. The chip is supposedly just modifying the firmware of the boards. Any data transmission would still be sent and received by the device, and would be immediately noticed on the network traffic of the affected companies, and surely would be immediately blocked by the DoD where those devices are used too. There's no way to sneak around that. Also, any firmware patches wouldn't work well with the hacked firmware delivered by that chip. Also, too many people would have to be involved in the making of that chip, as that requires a board redesign, and the manufacturing would be different than provided in the schematics.

There are also many easier ways to hack such devices. For instance by modifying the existing chips that go into the hardware, or altering their code, as opposed to going through the burden of adding a new "spy-chip", which is just too easy to find. There are also no real photos of those chips, and Bloomberg had access to zero of such units, despite there being apparently tens of thousands of them in the wild.

I began leaning towards the fact that the political timing is just way too perfect, especially since the report only accomplished one of two things (depending on who you ask): it made people think that China is the enemy and that the tariffs are justified or that even the most trusted media companies provide fake news.

Plucking straight from Reddit, the Pixel 3 XL:
Man, those upcoming Pixels are so damn ugly. It's like they're trying to trim the bezels, but the result is just an awkward looking device with no personality, an unreasonably large notch and still rather large bezels. I know that some people will still find them appealing, but the objective lack of craftsmanship is just appalling on a device priced like a flagship all-arounder.

In terms of carriers, aren't there better choices than Sprint in your area? I have no idea how the T-mobile merger is supposed to work, but the T-mobile network is good, as it uses all global standards, so its compatible with any phone that you can use anywhere in the world. I've always been a fan of getting unlocked devices too.

The latest iPhones are actually quite good, except I wouldn't feel comfortable with that horrible Intel modem. It was such a stupid choice that completely sabotages otherwise decent hardware. At best, your signal wouldn't be as good. If your signal already isn't great in your area, those iPhones could simply have no reception whatsoever in some places where your current phone still works in. That's on top of spontaneously dropping network connections. The new Qualcomm modems are excellent though and better than the latest, still good Samsung modems, so getting a new Snapdragon device should be an upgrade for you in that regard. Honestly, that makes me wonder even more why Apple chose such timing to move from the best wireless modem maker at their prime to the very worst, sabotaging so much of their own hard and good work just to pick a shitty third party supplier of a different critical component.

I would wait for the Galaxy S10 devices, as they might come with larger upgrades than the S9 series did, and the newer Qualcomm chips in the US manufactured on the 7nm process. Judging by the rumors, those phones might be aiming at another revolution rather than an evolution of their designs. They should be out in less than half a year.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
The Chinese company denied it, and I think China isn't going to respond to such accusations.

When I think about the technical side of the report, it makes less and less sense the more I read about it. The chip is supposedly just modifying the firmware of the boards. Any data transmission would still be sent and received by the device, and would be immediately noticed on the network traffic of the affected companies, and surely would be immediately blocked by the DoD where those devices are used too. There's no way to sneak around that. Also, any firmware patches wouldn't work well with the hacked firmware delivered by that chip. Also, too many people would have to be involved in the making of that chip, as that requires a board redesign, and the manufacturing would be different than provided in the schematics.

There are also many easier ways to hack such devices. For instance by modifying the existing chips that go into the hardware, or altering their code, as opposed to going through the burden of adding a new "spy-chip", which is just too easy to find. There are also no real photos of those chips, and Bloomberg had access to zero of such units, despite there being apparently tens of thousands of them in the wild.

I began leaning towards the fact that the political timing is just way too perfect, especially since the report only accomplished one of two things (depending on who you ask): it made people think that China is the enemy and that the tariffs are justified or that even the most trusted media companies provide fake news.



Man, those upcoming Pixels are so damn ugly. It's like they're trying to trim the bezels, but the result is just an awkward looking device with no personality, an unreasonably large notch and still rather large bezels. I know that some people will still find them appealing, but the objective lack of craftsmanship is just appalling on a device priced like a flagship all-arounder.

In terms of carriers, aren't there better choices than Sprint in your area? I have no idea how the T-mobile merger is supposed to work, but the T-mobile network is good, as it uses all global standards, so its compatible with any phone that you can use anywhere in the world. I've always been a fan of getting unlocked devices too.

The latest iPhones are actually quite good, except I wouldn't feel comfortable with that horrible Intel modem. It was such a stupid choice that completely sabotages otherwise decent hardware. At best, your signal wouldn't be as good. If your signal already isn't great in your area, those iPhones could simply have no reception whatsoever in some places where your current phone still works in. That's on top of spontaneously dropping network connections. The new Qualcomm modems are excellent though and better than the latest, still good Samsung modems, so getting a new Snapdragon device should be an upgrade for you in that regard. Honestly, that makes me wonder even more why Apple chose such timing to move from the best wireless modem maker at their prime to the very worst, sabotaging so much of their own hard and good work just to pick a shitty third party supplier of a different critical component.

I would wait for the Galaxy S10 devices, as they might come with larger upgrades than the S9 series did, and the newer Qualcomm chips in the US manufactured on the 7nm process. Judging by the rumors, those phones might be aiming at another revolution rather than an evolution of their designs. They should be out in less than half a year.
Yeah I plan on waiting for the S10 at least. I tell myself to ignore the urge to upgrade and I think it's going well. the iPhones weren't enough to pull me away and even though I don't understand the technical stuff you're telling me about the Intel modems, to hear that they are inferior in whatever way is enough to make me just not consider it at all.

As for Sprint, I am on a legacy plan of theirs. I did a 2 year contract, which no carrier does anymore, back in 2/2016. By January or February of 2017, Sprint had done away with contracts and instead just had a flat fee for a family plan based on lines. Each phone on the line had an "installment" that was between $20-40, depending on the phone, that would end after 24 months. This basically was the cost of the phone split up over 24 months. Once those 24 months were done, your bill was just the plan you chose, and that was it. Before, the subsidized phone price was baked in to the monthly charge for the plan, depending on how many lines you had but if you didn't upgrade on the 25th month, you were still essentially paying an "installment" on the phone because it was not a separate charge at that time.

So the new plans are better in that way; there's no "penalty" for not upgrading on time after 24 months and you pay just for the plan after those 24 months are done. But Sprint also changed their plans shortly before that. They still are the only carrier that has truly unlimited plans but the cost went up. My family pays $230 a month, including taxes, for 4 lines with 1500 minutes per month and unlimited data and text. Mobile to mobile is free, which isn't anything special, but this is a plan from 2012 or something, so I guess it was a big deal then. Unlimited data with no throttling unless you've used 23GB in a month and there is tower congestion in that specific area you're in. You're "de-prioritized" but I've never noticed it if it ever happened. At home, on the road, when I'm downtown, etc. I still seem to get consistent speeds relative to the area I'm in at the time.

So in addition to our plan, Sprint had some "loyalty" rewards thing that gave us unlimited minutes. So even though our plan says 1500 minutes, we have a special clause on our bill that gives us unlimited minutes. So we have a truly unlimited data, talk, text plan. No hot spot feature.

The new Sprint plans are a bit different. There are levels of "unlimited" that typically just restrict the bandwidth depending on media. The cheapest Unlimited plan caps your video at 480p and audio at 1.5 Mbps. unlimited talk and text and all that but there are caps on bandwidth. They also give you 10 GB of hot spot data included.

I looked in to switching but the plan alone for 4 people was more than what we pay now. If we also got new phones, the bill for four lines of unlimited data would be close to $300, if not more. So we'd pay nearly 50-70 more per month for capped bandwidth and 10 GB of hot spot data, per line, which we'd never use. The savings would come, maybe, after 24 months when the phones were paid off and the price would come down to $140 or $180 a month, I can't remember. Assuming we didn't upgrade our phones again 2 years from now. And if we did, we'd continue to pay that $50-70 extra per month again compared to what we pay now.

Both plans, new and old, have free international roaming data and text. Calls are 20 cents a minute internationally. So my parents go to India a few times a year and they can call me via WhatsApp or book Ubers and text me for free. So that's a big plus and I'm not sure what other US carriers offer. Usually it's a $5 or $10 add-on, I think, but it could very well be free too.

So T-Mobile may be cheaper for us but their coverage map does not show good speeds in the areas me or my family frequent. Downtown, I'm sure they're great, but for stretches in between towns, especially in wooded areas, the map is not that great. For anyone, really, but TMo's looked the worst. Guess where our house is? Surrounded by forest/woods. My parents work is in an active area so no issues there but their drive to and from work is still filled with wooded areas along the way. My dad answers hospital calls and pages from the hospital while driving to and from work. My mom calls her sisters daily to and from work. My mom and I both stream music or radio or something while driving. So while we don't think about it now, if we were to lose data or voice while driving in certain stretches of area, we'd notice. And TMo seems to be the worst outside of towns and cities in regards to that. First world problems for my mom and I but for my dad it could be a nuisance and a big deal.

I'm sure it would be slightly better with bigger, better carriers like VZW or ATT, but then we lose unlimited data and pay more. It's just not worth it in that regard. I'm no sprint apologist; they are shit in many of their practices and technology but they're the cheapest and they work well in our area where we need them. I am open and free to switch carriers, as is my mom, since our 2 years were up in March of this year. We should probably do the newer Sprint plans which are cheaper and bring our S7s and wait it out until January when my dad and sister's iPhone 7 contracts end, but we'll just wait until then and decide as 4 of us where we want to go or stay.

So basically we stick with Sprint because of unlimited data and minutes for a price that's much lower than the competitors and for coverage that coincidentally is working well for us despite Sprint kinda of being shit for lots of other people.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I've heard that them merging with T-mobile means that they will share infrastructure though. If it's a typical merger like that, you should have access to both networks right after it happens. So if you're on Sprint, your phone will be able to connect to Sprint towers AND T-mobile towers, as well as the other way around. Usually, mergers mean full access to both network infrastructures, and your phone would simply connect to whichever tower offers better signal strength, regardless if it was originally T-mobile or Sprint.

Before such mergers, switching to the cheaper carrier right before it happens might be worth considering if they're obliged to honor all pre-merger contract terms. After the merger, you would end up on the same network anyway, regardless if you originally signed with Sprint or T-mobile.

I don't know the details about that merger though, so I'm not sure what the time frames and terms are, and whether it's even confirmed. Sprint is a Japanese network, T-mobile is German, and by uniting they would have an upper hand against the two main American brands left (owned by the same businesses). In many countries that would be blocked on national security grounds or preservation of competition.
 
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