Technology Android

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Is it safe to say then that the Google Pixel 4 will most likely have the new 7nm chip (I'm guessing it'll be Snapdragon 855?), 6GB RAM, maybe a second rear camera and smaller bezels. That's my guess.
Yeah the 7nm chips are in mass production at the moment. The new Snapdragon is probably going to launch in a month or two and hit the new Galaxy S phones first, then roll out to all other flagships.

Not sure about naming, since they just released the 850 (which is a higher power 845 for laptops). Their naming schemes have always been silly, so the next chip might be called something entirely different to differentiate it from the 850.

It will surely perform better and will be significantly more efficient than the 10nm chips. The 7nm process alone provides a huge 40% reduction of power usage at the same performance compared to the 10nm process used in the 845, not to mention significant size reduction and some performance improvement. That's a very large upgrade in terms of the manufacturing process, and that's a "free" improvement, as any architectural improvements that Qualcomm makes will go on top of those process node benefits.

I suspect we might be on 7nm derivatives for a while, while the next forecasted jump to 5nm in 2020/2021 is still a derivative of the current 7nm process and will only net less than half of the improvements the jump from 10nm to 7nm did anyway. Basically, 7nm is what 14nm was when it launched - a big deal that brings major improvements that we will be stuck on for a few years with more minor improvements until the next big deal comes several generations from now.

One of my major problems with the Pixels is that they release at the very end of the last gen cycles when a much better technology is right around the corner. Due to their timing and the hardware lifecycles, I think it's always going to be like that - something better right around the corner, since the phones loaded with new generation tech always launch at the beginning of the year. It's hard to convince me to get an outgoing model with tech that already isn't exciting anymore and for a large price premium when new models loaded with significantly cooler tech that I always look forward to are releasing in just a few months.

I think the main reason why I like the Galaxy S series is that they are always the first devices that come with the coolest new stuff, and pretty much all of it, yet they are still very polished and priced fairly reasonably considering how much it costs Samsung to secure all the new hardware first, pack it all into a single device and add all the extra features the industry cuts corners with (SD slots, headphone jacks etc.). I respect Samsung for that.
With the Galaxy S6, I had the very first device with the very first processor on the 14nm process, a first non eMMC storage (which was a big deal), a first 1440P OLED panel on a phone, VR and probably several other less important upgrades. It significantly outperformed all other phones for many months in pretty much all aspects, and being able to experience proper VR with it for so cheap before it became a big thing was awesome too. The fall phones don't really deliver that excitement anymore, as I'm already waiting for what everyone's been hyping up for the next year by then.

In the past, the tech being so much cheaper in the fall meant we saw the Nexus phones. For the OEMs, building a phone for an October-November launch is like shopping for components at Black Friday prices, due to the manufacturers trying to clear their stocks at the end of their life cycle. Thus the Nexus phones were still a big deal thanks to their value and new stock Android, and those always brought cool new things back in the days. The Pixels lost those benefits. Man, I really miss the Nexus phones and tablets.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I'm seeing these iPad Pro 2018 leaks and I just don't like the removal of the Home button. Supposedly no headphone jack either. Can't say I've used the jack on my Pro since I don't even really watch videos on it often, but that sucks.

I want to see how powerful the processor is, including benchmarks. I think that it's confirmed A12X so it should pack some serious power.
 

THEV1LL4N

Well-Known Member
If I keep my LG G4 until January 2020 (forecasted date), that'll make it 4 and a half years. I wanted the original Google Pixel and was prepared to sell my phone online and keep the sim for the new phone (glad I didn't do this). I was very close to getting the Pixel 2 but I think waiting will pay off.

I hope the Pixel 4 has a notch-less option with some really good improvements all round. Otherwise I'll probably be looking at Xiaomi Mi A3, OnePlus 7/7T, Huawei P30 Pro, Poco F2 or anything else that interests me. I trust that 2019 will bring some very good mid-range options, especially with Android One.

If I could get the benefits of the Google Pixel camera in a much cheaper Android One phone, then I'd go for that. That's the Pixel's best feature (great camera and AI software along with unlimited original storage in Google Photos).
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
So the Pixel 3 reviews are in and they're all pretty positive. I just skimmed some articles and headlines so there might be more said about it, probably the negatives too. But they're positive on the camera hardware and software.

It may have been improved on the 3 but I thought the Pixel 1 and 2 had some big deficits in hardware and I thought it was the camera. Or missing features. Or maybe it was the screen? I don't want to bring up old arguments we already had though lol. But I was under that impression.

Now the 3 seems to be a solid buy. Notch and headphone jack aside, its got the features to compete, I think.


Weird, I thought I submitted this message last night but apparently I didn't and closed the tab but the forum saved most of my post. I forgot what I wrote after that but that seems to be most of it.

But today it was ruled that Google would charge OEMs to use GApps on their phones. From what I understand from the comments is that OEMs will either have to pay up to use the license and may pass those costs on to the users or they will opt to distribute apps from their own app stores, which of course they have to create first.

Some are celebrating and hoping OEMs don't pay the license so they can run GApps-free and use their own third party software. Others are worried about further fragmenting Android and also seeing a price hike in their phones.

I'd worry about it but it looks like it's an EU thing, which sucks for you EU guys but hopefully we're good over here in the US. We get fucked different ways when it comes to phones and we don't need Google, a US company, sticking its dick up its own asshole too.

Saw some leaked pictures of the new iPad Pros. Not the renders but one of it on a stand. Looks nice. But I haven't used a device without a Home button and I don't think I could get used to not having one. And I haven't used Face ID on the newer iOS devices so I don't know how well that works. But Apple also says they're going to do something big for the Pro's release and possibly announce something exclusive to that model. We'll see.
 
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masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Not sure which reviews you read, but the only good things any of the ones I saw are praising are in the software. The hardware is still simply bad, and if you account for the insane asking price for a phone that does not offer high-end hardware, it's just a very bad purchase for the price:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...are-but-google-just-isnt-a-hardware-leader/5/

Quoting the conclusion:
AI, Software, and Hardware, but one of these groups isn't pulling its weight.

As long as you don't touch or look at the hardware, the Pixel 3 is a pretty great phone. It has incredible performance and a world-class camera. For a product line that seems created entirely around emulating and competing with the iPhone, though, Google just doesn't have the hardware chops to hang with Apple or other high-end manufacturers.
Which is exactly my problem with those phones, and what I was writing about here earlier. It's a mid-range build with its chip being the sole high-end part (although at the very end of its lifecycle), poorly put together, with great software trying to make it somehow work, in a package priced like a flagship smartphone. But it's not even competitive with the outgoing-gen polished flagship smartphones, and yet it costs more than them, with even better phones packing hardware that's another generation ahead being right around the corner.

Again, I was a huge fan of the Nexus phones and Google hardware initiatives in the past, but this is simply not a reasonably priced phone. It's a $400 device, akin to the Nexus phones of the past, but priced at "whatever those who would buy it anyway are willing to pay for it". I can understand the fan sentiments, and that these phones are coming from the biggest darling of the past of the tech reviewers, but the fans' blind praise isn't doing anyone any good after seeing a company they supported trying to gouge its fans to this extent, without even giving them a quality product.


As for the EU, I love the idea of the organization itself, and they did a lot of great things for tech progress in Europe and around the world, but man are their latest legislations related to regulating online content and copyright laws just beyond stupid.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I saw The Verge’s headlines and Android Police’s, neowin’s and Droid Life’s. This was through reddit. Didn’t read the comments though lol. Some Redditors are neurotic and will never be happy.


How much were Nexus devices at release, I can’t remember? But the gradual increase in price is pretty annoying and unnecessary. I know the Nexus 4 had a very low price point and that was one of its big selling points back in 2012. Wasn’t it $100-200 cheaper than other flagships at the time? Somehow we got to $800+. And that’s after the removal of features like the home button and headphone jacks and expandable storage. I’m speaking about all phones and not just Google or Apple.

And like you were wondering, I wonder the same: how does google justify charging this much for a phone that really gains attention by a niche community of hardcore fans? And not even most of the fanboy community buys a Pixel device, they just simply know that it exists but don’t buy it. If this was Samsung, I’d understand the power of fanboyis and the power of marketing and brand loyalty. But this is a device that no one on the street would be able to identify to you, let alone know that three generations of this phone exist.

I don’t know all of the Pixels exclusive features off the top of my head but I do know that Samsung’s TouchWiz has features I’d miss if I ever switched to another brand.
 
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masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
How much were Nexus devices at release, I can’t remember? But the gradual increase in price is pretty annoying and unnecessary. I know the Nexus 4 had a very low price point and that was one of its big selling points back in 2012. Wasn’t it $100-200 cheaper than other flagships at the time? Somehow we got to $800+. And that’s after the removal of features like the home button and headphone jacks and expandable storage. I’m speaking about all phones and not just Google or Apple.
The Nexus phones were around $299-$399 in all years between 2010 and 2015, with the price actually decreasing, with the Nexus 6P 'phablet' being an exception at $499 (but it was released alongside the $349 Nexus 5X). The Nexus tablets were $199-$229. That was half the price of the other flagships, which were usually launching at around $600-$650 (The Galaxy S4 and iPhone 5 were $649 when the Nexus 5 launched at $349).

They all had flagship parts, sometimes they were even the first devices loaded with the newest high-end, bleeding edge technology. The Nexus 5 was actually the launch device for the Snapdragon 800-series platform, which was a big deal and set the grounds for the current Snapdragon 800-series processors (the second fastest at the time Galaxy S4 had a much weaker Snapdragon 600 processor), but the Nexus 5 was also the first mainstream device with wireless charging, optically stabilized camera, Android KitKat, had the smallest bezels in the smartphone space and was only the second phone with a 1080P IPS display, and was sold for $349.

They really were showcasing the best in the Android world and the value was absolutely amazing, not to mention how exciting it was whenever they launched. The tech world always stopped for a day to see the new hardware that they were packing and the new Android version that they always announced alongside. Not buying them if you knew about them simply felt stupid if you were getting your phone outright. I liked the concept of switching OEMs too.. and just thinking about those times makes me miss those Google glory days and the excitement that they were able to deliver with their Google I/Os so much.

Then came the first Pixel in 2016 at $649, doubling the price of an average Nexus smartphone and matching the Galaxy S7 and iPhone 6s, while coming with inferior hardware, and things were going downhill ever since.

The price hike argument doesn't really apply as much as it might seem. When the aforementioned Nexus 5 came out at $349, the Galaxy S4 then went for $649, and while it was an amazing phone at the time, the Nexus 5 was a major leap in terms of the technology it packed, which was way beyond what anything else then offered.
5 years later, the Galaxy S9 launched for $719, which is just 11% more than the S4 went for 5 years ago. Meanwhile, the Pixel 3 comes out at $799, 6 months late, bringing nothing new to the market.

It's Google, Apple (iPhone Xs, iPads) and some other Android OEMs (like OnePlus) that were hiking up their prices the most, with Google leading the charge of simply price gouging by more than doubling the price for their phones in less than 3 years (and arguably not offering the novelty the Nexus devices did, with the Pixels no longer being a showcase for cutting-edge hardware, quite the opposite).
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Funny that you brought up the N5. I just saw a tweet that said it's been 5 or 6 years since the N5 was released and they listed the price as $349. I immediately thought of my post asking what the cheapest Nexus device was and was then shocked. $349?! Shit, I don't remember that.

After looking at the specs you listed, it's all coming back to me. I forgot what the phone debates were like only a few years back. Back then, everyone liked the price but thought they couldn't live without custom UIs and the features they had. TW was hated universally back then but some like Sense UI. Others liked LG's hardware design as well as HTC's. The Galaxy phones were still the most powerful phones you could buy, at least their GPUs were (Hummingbird?). I'm going back to 2011 so the Nexus phones certainly may have beaten out OEMs with hardware-firsts, like you said. But the debates back then had such different criteria. People wanted slimmer phones because the Moto Droid felt clunky. Bigger batteries or better battery life, which is still an issue today. People thought 5" was too big for a screen and getting close to a tablet, like the 7" N7.

if someone wanted a Nexus, it was for access to stock Android as well as the zero-day updates to the latest version. Today, many still prefer stock Android but fault Pixel phones for lack of hardware or features. Some prefer TouchWiz, myself included. Our arguments today focus on freaking headphone jacks, notches, bezels and USB-C adoption (or lack of).

Man, how times have changed. Now I see how the Nexus devices used to trade off some of those custom UIs, naturally, but had solid hardware and updates but also were priced to undercut other flagships by a good bit. At least by $100. Now, the criticism is why someone would buy a Pixel when it costs the same, or more, than the competition but isn't offering anything spectacular with stock Android or with cutting-edge hardware.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I saw MKBHD's review on the Pixel 3. Well, really the comments on Reddit stuck out with some people complaining of hardware issues again and not being taken seriously by where they bought it from. One guy mentioned "speaker buzz" and said Google would take 2 weeks to get him a replacement phone.

What shit.

MKBHD also said it took the best pictures of any flagship phone. Guess we'll wait for that Dxomark review, or whatever that site is called for phone camera ratings.

He also said the phone as prone to scratches, and his had scratches within minutes of unboxing.

Also shitty that they put different displays in different models with the Lg and Samsung display in the Pixel and XL respectively. I'm sure it was for a reason pertaining to size of the screens and what's available but there's bound to be issues with the screen between models and one of them having issues far less than the other. Which is going to piss owners off even more.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
lo I'm about to toss my MBP out: https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/10/samsung-galaxy-s10-5g-12gb-ram.html

12GB of RAM. Even if it is the high-end model that'll cost like $1200, that's so stupid that mobile phones are now at that point. Although, some tablets now beat some notebooks in processing power, so maybe it's not too far-fetched.
Holy crap, Android would go out of control and probably launch every app you have installed and just keep it in the memory, lol.

For a second I hoped that at least then it would properly fuck off from autonomously opening and killing processes all the time, if it had enough RAM just to keep everything always open. Then I realized that if you closed an app through the task switcher it would be just automatically reopening them in the background, so that would be a whole new problem since it's designed to always find use for any amount of RAM you throw at it and fill it with SOMETHING. I guess there's no winning with the Android RAM management.
 
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Rukas

Capo Dei Capi
Staff member
Holy crap, Android would go out of control and probably launch every app you have installed and just keep it in the memory, lol.

For a second I hoped that at least then it would properly fuck off from autonomously opening and killing processes all the time, if it had enough RAM just to keep everything always open. Then I realized that if you closed an app through the task switcher it would be just automatically reopening them in the background, so that would be a whole new problem since it's designed to always find use for any amount of RAM you throw at it and fill it with SOMETHING. I guess there's no winning with the Android RAM management.
I always close things not because of memory but because of battery.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Holy crap, Android would go out of control and probably launch every app you have installed and just keep it in the memory, lol.

For a second I hoped that at least then it would properly fuck off from autonomously opening and killing processes all the time, if it had enough RAM just to keep everything always open. Then I realized that if you closed an app through the task switcher it would be just automatically reopening them in the background, so that would be a whole new problem since it's designed to always find use for any amount of RAM you throw at it and fill it with SOMETHING. I guess there's no winning with the Android RAM management.

Is there any changing of the way Android manages RAM? Is it the same as what iOS does; because I thought iOS "hibernates" or freezes apps so there is a decrease is speed or responsiveness but iOS devices also don't need a notebook-like spec sheet, like these 8 or 12 GB of RAM models.
But maybe it's a time for a change. This feature of Android has been around since its early days, but that's when devices had 512 MB of RAM. A regular device has like 2-4 GB, and that should be enough. If it needs more, maybe the OS needs to change something about itself.

All these minor tweaks each successive, major OS update brings and I still find people complaining of the same issues with their phones. I know its not magic and OEMs can't just magically fix things, but this has been going on for years. You'd think something would have changed in the way apps are created or the way the OS runs that things would be more streamlined for the user and easier on the hardware/OS of the devices.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I always close things not because of memory but because of battery.

Same. Someg-name apps are just so shittily built for Android, as opposed to iOS, that they have rogue processes that just keep running in the background and sap battery. You see a large drop in battery despite it being in your pocket or bag for hours and check the battery stats and see that it's sometimes Google's own apps/processes that kept on running. Google Play Services is one of my biggest battery killers, and I know I'm not the only one. Despite syncing only Gmail and not the contacts or search results, etc., it still kills my battery. Changing settings works for some time until it pops up again weeks or months later.

It's annoying but I'm glad I can at least see what is doing this.

One odd thing is I can stream video from any service and get close to 4 hours of SOT. I do this over LTE and I can use about 2-3 GB of data in that time. 4 hours.

I can browse Instagram and use maybe 800 MB over an hour and still lose like 50% of my battery. IG uses a good bit of data but when put in proportion to video streaming apps, the rate at which it kills my battery is much higher. Almost twice as fast. And I don't get it. Reddit or Twitter doesn't even use that much so it's not like it's a "social media" thing. I know Snapchat users also complain about battery usage.

Some apps for social media are utter shit. For me, it's IG, and for many others it's Snap.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This is insane.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/25/18021944/google-night-sight-pixel-3-camera-samples

I've got it working on my Pixel 2 XL thanks to the XDA folks. And it is crazy good. It's like some wizard magic.
I like the way the Night sight handles night shots outdoors. There's still some work to be done into making them look more like actual night shots (some make them look daylight-ish) but it's surely a very decent upgrade to their software processing nevertheless.

In terms of camera improvements in general, we've seen the most of them happen in regards to low-light photos and their processing. Samsung made their steps by even introducing physical variable aperture. I wonder how the Night Sight will work there since Samsung has the superior sensor when in lower aperture mode, and night sight has already been ported to Xiaomi phones and seems to be entirely software-based.

I just really wish they went back to increasing the sensor sizes for naturally better all-around shots as well.

I can browse Instagram and use maybe 800 MB over an hour and still lose like 50% of my battery. IG uses a good bit of data but when put in proportion to video streaming apps, the rate at which it kills my battery is much higher. Almost twice as fast. And I don't get it. Reddit or Twitter doesn't even use that much so it's not like it's a "social media" thing. I know Snapchat users also complain about battery usage.

Some apps for social media are utter shit. For me, it's IG, and for many others it's Snap.
Chipsets have hardware encoding built in for video. Basically, there's a separate part on the chip dedicated to low-power video handling. On top of that, videos usually contain larger numbers of darker pixels, especially in darker scenes, which makes OLED screens use less power.

If you watched videos saved on your phone you could get significantly more screen-on-time. Wi-fi should give you more battery life as well.
 
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dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I like the way the Night sight handles night shots outdoors. There's still some work to be done into making them look more like actual night shots (some make them look daylight-ish) but it's surely a very decent upgrade to their software processing nevertheless.

In terms of camera improvements in general, we've seen the most of them happen in regards to low-light photos and their processing. Samsung made their steps by even introducing physical variable aperture. I wonder how the Night Sight will work there since Samsung has the superior sensor when in lower aperture mode, and night sight has already been ported to Xiaomi phones and seems to be entirely software-based.

I just really wish they went back to increasing the sensor sizes for naturally better all-around shots as well.



Chipsets have hardware encoding built in for video. Basically, there's a separate part on the chip dedicated to low-power video handling. On top of that, videos usually contain larger numbers of darker pixels, especially in darker scenes, which makes OLED screens use less power.

If you watched videos saved on your phone you could get significantly more screen-on-time. Wi-fi should give you more battery life as well.

I'v tried both WiFi and local storage, like downloading from Netflix and watching later. LTE, legit, is the best on my battery, and it makes no sense.

in my other post, I was saying that streaming from Hulu or Netflix or HBO seems to use less battery per minute than simply scrolling through Instagram. Most of my IG timeline is pictures from car groups or sports blogs. There are some videos but you know IG videos are like 30 secs, tops. I don't know how much my timeline IG loads up when I open the app after not using it for a few hours but the data usage isn't all that much, yet it still sucks battery down. Maybe 15-20% per 30 mins of usage?

I used that Phone Info app from XDA and it says my overall battery is about 60% of original, which isn't surprising for a 32 month old phone, but to be honest, the battery life doesn't seem too bad compared to day one. So I'm saying that I had shit battery life from day one, with about 3.5 hours of SOT compared to just under 3 hours now. Maybe 2:45 SOT. but it shows a 40% degradation in battery.

I just learned to stop worrying about battery life now because either my house is haunted where it has shit signal of either data or voice and that kills the battery. Or I just use apps and services the way no one else that gets 6+ hours of SOT on their S7s does.

It's still alarming to see the battery percentage drop the way it does when using some apps, namely IG.

I think I can pull a GSam log after a full day's use and maybe 99% battery used, or something, and show you the data. The Google app certainly wakes my phone a ton. 1000+ times a day. The next "worst" wake lock will be an app I know and approve to ping location or refresh or something, and that would be the Nest app, which might be 100ish times a day, because it alters the temperature based on if anyone is home or not. Android System might be up there too. But not anywhere near the 600+ Google App does every single day.

I'll post a log if I can. I know a screenshot can only show so much but logs may show specific processes waking the phone so I can what it is exactly about the Google App that is waking my phone.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
After the Apple announcement, at first I heard the good news of the Macbook Pros getting the AMD Vega graphics, which is nice, but sadly that was the only good thing about the event.

Then.. Apple killed the Macbook Air. It was by far my favorite Apple computer. Technically they refreshed it and made it into a 13.3' Macbook. Basically, the only thing that's left of the original Macbook Air is the screen size. Sure, the display is finally up to modern standards. But there's no magnetic charger or usable full-sized USB ports anymore, the price went up to $1199 and it got a lowly, low-power dual-core chip, which is akin to killing the Macbook Air and merging it into the other Apple laptop series. Dual-core processors aren't even produced anymore. The last mainstream dual-core chip was a Skylake 2 years ago. The lowest end AMD of today is a quad-core, and ever since even the Intel i3s are quad core. I have no idea how they still managed to order a rebranded Skylake dual-core chip from Intel and still call it an 8th gen i5.

I had the Air, I had a hard time giving it away purely because of the magnetic charger and the keyboard, and how versatile it was for the size, so this makes me unreasonably sad, as it was an amazing product line, which hurts even more. Sure, it badly needed a refresh, but the way they carried it was filled with really bad decisions all across the board and effectively killed the line. It's just a 13,3' Macbook now.

I'v tried both WiFi and local storage, like downloading from Netflix and watching later. LTE, legit, is the best on my battery, and it makes no sense.
That's very unusual. It should never be like this. I think 3+ hours of screen on time isn't great, but isn't tragic as well. I would stop worrying and just take it for what it is until another upgrade. 32 months is plenty of life out of a phone. 40% of battery degradation is very likely at such time, and it accelerates due to the capacity being lower and thus the battery getting full charge cycles more frequently.
 
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