Pope's support for Islam

[TecK NeeX]

Oh did anyone hear about the extreme violent protesting going on in Hungary? Dont get your hopes up they're not Muslim

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14901514/

 

[Devious]

But their religion does not give them 'Unshakeable confidence" in what they do is right. Their religion does not give them to right to kill unarmed civilians. He's full of shit and that quote did not fit with this discussion.

the religion doesn't give them the right, you're right about that, but they obviously think it does. therefore the quote is still valid. these people believe that if they martyr themselves they will be rewarded in the afterlife. whether it's true or not is irrelevant, the point is they obviously believe it enough to blow themselves up for what they believe is God's will. that is the point of the quote.

 

[Glockmatic]

But their religion does not give them 'Unshakeable confidence" in what they do is right. Their religion does not give them to right to kill unarmed civilians. He's full of shit and that quote did not fit with this discussion.

Thinking that god will accept them because they'll become martyrs gives them confidence (NOTE: I didn't say Islam says they'll be martyrs, THEY BELIEVE THEY WILL BE MARTYRS)

Yes you are, you're twisting shit yourself no different than before when you said most Mongols adopted Buddhism and brought it back to Mongolia when obviously thats a historical lie. I corrected you and you had no reply in return. The Majority of mongols converted to Islam and stayed in that region, The few that didnt returned home, thats a fact, One doesnt need to look further than the Country of mongolia itself. It's little population and religion.

The western Khanates were not a majority. Mongolia didn't have a large population to begin with, their armies only grew because they used populations of conquered land to fill their ranks like the Turks and Chinese.

And the US support of how they're using it is where the animosity comes from.

Israel is defending themselves, so they're right! (see how the logic DOESN'T work?)

I never defended them, You're puting shit in my mouth, I merely gave you their motives behind their attacks. I agree with their motives yet I dont agree with who they target. God damn! how many more times do I have to say that to get it through your brain?

So you're saying suicide bombings are perfectly fine

And he's right to say it, Where he went wrong is he targets civilians which goes against the same verse he quoted. Can we blame religion for that? No blame the persons who dont listen to it. I'd say nice to see you showing your true colors right back but you've always shwon them.

Hes using islam to incite violence, thats what the pope was addressing in his speech

 

[Duke]

Oh did anyone hear about the extreme violent protesting going on in Hungary? Dont get your hopes up they're not Muslim

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14901514/

Lawl? This is relevant because? These people are rising up against a corrupt government instead of worrying what some German in a dress said about their faith? This thread is mostly about using religious beliefs to justify violence?

Quite the difference?

 

[TecK NeeX]

Thinking that god will accept them because they'll become martyrs gives them confidence (NOTE: I didn't say Islam says they'll be martyrs, THEY BELIEVE THEY WILL BE MARTYRS)

Nope that doesnt make sense because. 1- A person doesnt have to become a "martyr" to be accepted by God. 2- A normal Muslim has just as much a chance of being "accepted" by God as a martyr. So their is no "confidence" going around, Cause with or without martyrdom, that person still has the same chance. So that makes the reason why they retaliate is becasue they feel they've been attacked.

Israel is defending themselves, so they're right! (see how the logic DOESN'T work?)

Yes the fifth strongest military power in the world defending themselves from a group of people who can't aim a rifle right. All atrocities committed by Israel was viewed by the U.S as self-defence while everything the palestinians were involved in was terrorism. Very fair in the Eyes of Extremist Muslims.

So you're saying suicide bombings are perfectly fine

No you're saying suicide bombings are perfectly fine.

Hes using islam to incite violence, thats what the pope was addressing in his speech

No, he's using the reasons behind his motives to incite violence.

Lawl? This is relevant because?

Its relevance is that when people have a good reason to riot, they will. Muslim or not.

These people are rising up against a corrupt government instead of worrying what some German in a dress said about their faith?

Get your head out of your ass, Not everyone's life is the same as yours, To others religion means everything to them, it's their life, fuck a corrupt leader.

This thread is mostly about using religious beliefs to justify violence?

The topic was changed many times, Dont come to me whining when I do it.

 

[Morris]

When egypt does all this to another state I'D accuse egypt with the same crimes as israel and i would fight against them .

Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip from 1948-1967.

And the US support of how they're using it is where the animosity comes from.

How come I never see you complain about the fact that American and European Union aid went to the Palestinian funding of suicide bombing?

In fact, the United States aid to Israel stipulates what Israel can use the aid for. Settlement activity is not on the list.

On the other hand, it was directly proven that Western aid to the Palestinian Authority went straight to the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, straight to the funding of suicide bombing terrorism.

And yet we never hear a peep about it.

These days, the same people complaining that we aid Israel are complaining that we don't aid Hamas. That's amazing.

 

[Duke]

Its relevance is that when people have a good reason to riot, they will. Muslim or not.

Get your head out of your ass, Not everyone's life is the same as yours, To others religion means everything to them, it's their life, fuck a corrupt leader.

The topic was changed many times, Dont come to me whining when I do it.

Rising up against a corrupt government is quite different from rising up against someone that made a semi-dubious statement about your religion.

If you can not see that, I don't know....it's like we're discussing the safety of modern day SUV's and I copy post an article about an aircrash and argue that "Accidents always happen".


As always Teck, your post consisted of "non-info".

 

[Glockmatic]

Nope that doesnt make sense because. 1- A person doesnt have to become a "martyr" to be accepted by God. 2- A normal Muslim has just as much a chance of being "accepted" by God as a martyr. So their is no "confidence" going around, Cause with or without martyrdom, that person still has the same chance. So that makes the reason why they retaliate is becasue they feel they've been attacked.

You don't quite understand the whole point. THEY BELIEVE THEY'LL BECOME MARTYRS, THEREFORE THEY'LL DO IT. It doesn't matter if they'll be martyrs or not, they believe they will.

"I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans."
-Osama Bin Ladin

"Today, you are fighting the army of Allah. You are fighting against peoples for whom death for the sake of Allah, and for the sake of honor and glory, is preferable to life....How can you possibly defeat us?"
-Khalid al-Mish'al

Yes the fifth strongest military power in the world defending themselves from a group of people who can't aim a rifle right. All atrocities committed by Israel was viewed by the U.S as self-defence while everything the palestinians were involved in was terrorism. Very fair in the Eyes of Extremist Muslims.

Having a large military doesn't protect them from mortors, rockets and suicide attacks.

No you're saying suicide bombings are perfectly fine.

"Everything these 'Extremists' do is justified in Islam except for teh obvious targeting of civilians. Had they not been civilian targets they'd be heroes in my eyes."

So suicide bombers who kill military targets are heroes to you.

 

[Morris]

a group of people who can't aim a rifle right.

Maybe that's why they keep smuggling automatics and RPGs in from Egypt

 

[Helena]

These arguments are not going nowhere. I will say this though. Everything these 'Extremists' do is justified in Islam except for teh obvious targeting of civilians. Had they not been civilian targets they'd be heroes in my eyes. But I will never call them as such nor will i ever call them Muslim as long as they continue with the murder of unarmed civilians while ignoring the real killers.

many Muslims agree with this, as do i.

 

[Jurhum]

^ Insane in what sense? Nothing is remotely insane about Islam at all. That's a fallacious assumption.

 

[Morris]

What I'd like to know is why everyone else in this thread can talk about American aid to Israel, Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, characterization of Palestinian weapons and self defense, and my post about Palestinians getting weapons from Egypt gets deleted by an admin.

That makes no sense. So I hope people read this message before BeReal abuses his powers and deletes this one as well.

 

[Glockmatic]

What I'd like to know is why everyone else in this thread can talk about American aid to Israel, Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, characterization of Palestinian weapons and self defense, and my post about Palestinians getting weapons from Egypt gets deleted by an admin.

That makes no sense. So I hope people read this message before BeReal abuses his powers and deletes this one as well.

:thumb: I don't see why other posts don't get deleted when Israel is brought up but posts about Egypts role are

 

[Duke]

What I'd like to know is why everyone else in this thread can talk about American aid to Israel, Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, characterization of Palestinian weapons and self defense, and my post about Palestinians getting weapons from Egypt gets deleted by an admin.

That makes no sense. So I hope people read this message before BeReal abuses his powers and deletes this one as well.

I think he didn't want the thread to derail into another Israel arguement. Noble thinking but I guess it'll derail sooner or later anyway. I'll bring the post back, if that soothes your mind.

 

[Morris]

I think he didn't want the thread to derail into another Israel arguement. Noble thinking but I guess it'll derail sooner or later anyway. I'll bring the post back, if that soothes your mind.

I couldn't care less about the post. I'm sick of having a moderator take one side on an issue and thus threaten to delete my posts, or actually delete them, when he disagrees with my take.

This is made all the more ridiculous by the fact that BeReal deleted my post for discussing Israel and the Palestinian territories when Israel wasn't even mentioned in my post. In fact, my post was about Palestinians smuggling weapons in from Egypt, and it was a response to a quote from Teck about Israel and the Palestinians that went undeleted. I'm sure BeReal just conveniently missed that one.

 

[Duke]

I couldn't care less about the post. I'm sick of having a moderator take one side on an issue and thus threaten to delete my posts, or actually delete them, when he disagrees with my take.

This is made all the more ridiculous by the fact that BeReal deleted my post for discussing Israel and the Palestinian territories when Israel wasn't even mentioned in my post. In fact, my post was about Palestinians smuggling weapons in from Egypt, and it was a response to a quote from Teck about Israel and the Palestinians that went undeleted. I'm sure BeReal just conveniently missed that one.

If anything beReal isn't subjective to the conflict. He is, kind of like me and I guess 50% of Europe, fucking sick to the stomach of hearing about the bullshit going on there.

So if anything, it was his wish to smother the whole debate before it started. Don't make it into some kind of personal attack.

 

[Jokerman]

beReal is the devil.

 

[bigmack]

BeReal just doesn't like jews

 

[Morris]

Don't make it into some kind of personal attack.

Of course it was a personal attack. He was threatening to delete my posts about Israel and Hezbollah in a thread about Israel and Hezbollah a few weeks ago. Then he actually deleted my post in this thread when the word Israel was not in the post.

I don't see anybody else's posts being threatened for deletion. This forum is for debate. It's called Words of Wisdom, not Words That The Moderators Like.

 

[Sebastian]

Closed due to Morris' behaviour.