Pope's support for Islam
- Thread starter Tru Principle
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Oh is that what the focus of the Popes speech was on now, Islamic violence? I thought it was violence in general. To single us out. and not give a mention to the violence being done on us by the west/christians, and on top of that quoted a christian emperor's hateful remarks on Islam is a fantastic way to bring the two world religions closer together, and an ingenious way to pursue the inter-faith dialogue Pope John Paul so loved participate in. Give this man the Nobel Peace Prize 
TecK NeeX said:
Oh is that what the focus of the Popes speech was on now, Islamic violence? I thought it was violence in general. To single us out. and not give a mention to the violence being done on us by the west/christians, and on top of that quoted a christian emperor's hateful remarks on Islam is a fantastic way to bring the two world religions closer together, and an ingenious way to pursue the inter-faith dialogue Pope John Paul so loved participate in. Give this man the Nobel Peace Prize
The problem with "peace between religions" is that it will never happen. As long as each religion says "we're the only ones who go to heaven, everyone else is wrong and will be judged accordingly" there will never be real acceptance of one another.
Oh you bet there are. many have blown up abortion clinics, Jewish centres, The violence between catholics and protestants. The clashes between muslims and christians in Indonesia and a number of African countries.
So now he's speaking about violence in general? But you just said above that the focus of his speech was on Islamic violence. Jesus. make up your mind man.
You can't forsee the future, There was much interfaith dialogue when the other pope was around. Just cause the few from both sides dont accept that, It shouldnt prevent the majority from making peace with each other. And dont let your ignorance get in the way of your education. Religion or not there will always be wars/violence. Blame it on human beings not Religion, Religion speaks against violence and wars.
So now he's speaking about violence in general? But you just said above that the focus of his speech was on Islamic violence. Jesus. make up your mind man.
You can't forsee the future, There was much interfaith dialogue when the other pope was around. Just cause the few from both sides dont accept that, It shouldnt prevent the majority from making peace with each other. And dont let your ignorance get in the way of your education. Religion or not there will always be wars/violence. Blame it on human beings not Religion, Religion speaks against violence and wars.
So both religions are fucked up
Actually I used that quote for suicide bombers and gunmen who storm hospitals to kill nuns
There hasn't been peace for 2000 years, there will never be REAL peace until there is only one religion. Humans interpret religious dogma, and if that dogma has a violence-clause in it we humans will use it.
Actually I used that quote for suicide bombers and gunmen who storm hospitals to kill nuns
There hasn't been peace for 2000 years, there will never be REAL peace until there is only one religion. Humans interpret religious dogma, and if that dogma has a violence-clause in it we humans will use it.
man if you look through history, most of this world's major wars have been about religion in one way or another, so i think you can blame it on religion, or people's beliefs in religion. Glock has a point. even if the majority of people in every religion came together and declared peace and acceptance of each other, there would always be extremists in every religion that would try to ruin that peace no matter what. not all violence in the world can be blamed on religion, and you're right in the fact that if there was no religion there would still be wars, but religion, and the belief of religions that their God is the right one and all others are wrong, has been the major catalyst for most of the wars throughout history. i think we should just take all the extremists from every religion and dump them on an island full of weapons, and let them just kill themselves. then maybe the rest of the world can have some peace.
I find non-moderate muslims hilarious.
"CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- An al Qaeda-linked extremist group warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that he and the West were "doomed," as protesters raged across the Muslim world to demand more of an apology from the pontiff for his remarks about Islam and violence."
haha "NO WE ARE NOT VIOLENT BUT IF YOU SAY WE ARE WE WILL KILL YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO ISNT MUSLIM".
what irony
"CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- An al Qaeda-linked extremist group warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that he and the West were "doomed," as protesters raged across the Muslim world to demand more of an apology from the pontiff for his remarks about Islam and violence."
haha "NO WE ARE NOT VIOLENT BUT IF YOU SAY WE ARE WE WILL KILL YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO ISNT MUSLIM".
what irony
Ok
You dont make any sense!.
Actually there were very long periods of peace inbetween those 2000 years. Very much shows that it's possible.
Actually, thats not entirely true, I've posted this many times on here before. Can't find the original article but here it is
Tell me which of these world empires ever fought against, or conquered another nation, due to religious beliefs?
Egypt - not over religion
Assyria - not over religion
Babylon - not over religion
Persia - not over religion
Greece - not over religion
Rome - not over religion
What about the leaders of the most violent groups? How many of them fought wars to further their own religion?
Egyptian Pharoahs - did not fight over religion
Alexander the Great - did not fight over religion
Roman Caesars - did not fight over religion
Attila the Hun - did not fight over religion
Genghis Khan - did not fight over religion(Mongols stopped their wars when they found religion)
Napoleon - did not fight over religion
Hitler - did not fight over religion
Mao - did not fight over religion
Stalin - did not fight over religion (in fact, he fought for non-religion)
Saddam Hussein - did not fight over religion (in fact he killed others of his own religion)
None of them fought wars for their religion, and none of them attempted to impose their faith on other nations. While each held to strong philosophies and world views - the motivation for their wars was not religious dispute.
Since 1776, America has fought ten major conflicts, and none of these centered on religion. In fact, prior to the Cold War against Communism (which was political and economic - also not religious) All of America's wars were against nations that held to some form of Christianity! This would even include fighting against ourselves in the Civil War.
Is there any evidence that before the advent of the world's great religions human beings behaved in a less warlike or murderous manner? Hardly. The opposite is the case. Man has never needed religious excuses to make war, and the 20th Century was no exception:
20th Century Wars
World War I - not over religion
World War II- not over religion
The Cold War - not over religion
The Korean War - not over religion
The Vietnam War - not over religion
The Gulf War - not over religion
2003 Iraq War - not over religion
The crusades are pretty much the only wars fought over religion. But later both sides called for truce and lived in peace between each other for hundreds of years.
You dont make any sense!.
Actually there were very long periods of peace inbetween those 2000 years. Very much shows that it's possible.
Actually, thats not entirely true, I've posted this many times on here before. Can't find the original article but here it is
Tell me which of these world empires ever fought against, or conquered another nation, due to religious beliefs?
Egypt - not over religion
Assyria - not over religion
Babylon - not over religion
Persia - not over religion
Greece - not over religion
Rome - not over religion
What about the leaders of the most violent groups? How many of them fought wars to further their own religion?
Egyptian Pharoahs - did not fight over religion
Alexander the Great - did not fight over religion
Roman Caesars - did not fight over religion
Attila the Hun - did not fight over religion
Genghis Khan - did not fight over religion(Mongols stopped their wars when they found religion)
Napoleon - did not fight over religion
Hitler - did not fight over religion
Mao - did not fight over religion
Stalin - did not fight over religion (in fact, he fought for non-religion)
Saddam Hussein - did not fight over religion (in fact he killed others of his own religion)
None of them fought wars for their religion, and none of them attempted to impose their faith on other nations. While each held to strong philosophies and world views - the motivation for their wars was not religious dispute.
Since 1776, America has fought ten major conflicts, and none of these centered on religion. In fact, prior to the Cold War against Communism (which was political and economic - also not religious) All of America's wars were against nations that held to some form of Christianity! This would even include fighting against ourselves in the Civil War.
Is there any evidence that before the advent of the world's great religions human beings behaved in a less warlike or murderous manner? Hardly. The opposite is the case. Man has never needed religious excuses to make war, and the 20th Century was no exception:
20th Century Wars
World War I - not over religion
World War II- not over religion
The Cold War - not over religion
The Korean War - not over religion
The Vietnam War - not over religion
The Gulf War - not over religion
2003 Iraq War - not over religion
The crusades are pretty much the only wars fought over religion. But later both sides called for truce and lived in peace between each other for hundreds of years.
How does that not make any sense? Hes saying to people who want to kill themself or others in the name of god that it goes against god.
Peace as in no wars, true. But peace as in muslims, christians and jews seeing each others as equal? Never
They stopped because their empire was too big to maintain, they stopped advancing west because their Khan died and had to return home to pick a new Khan, then the splitting up of the empire into Khanates. They found religion early in their expansion, that didn't stop them.
"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism." - Richard Dawkins
Peace as in no wars, true. But peace as in muslims, christians and jews seeing each others as equal? Never
They stopped because their empire was too big to maintain, they stopped advancing west because their Khan died and had to return home to pick a new Khan, then the splitting up of the empire into Khanates. They found religion early in their expansion, that didn't stop them.
"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism." - Richard Dawkins
Sure thats true. glad you're making sense know 
You mean like homos and straight people being equal? Males and females being equal? different colored people being equal? Sure never, It's part of life man.
Whatever i have different sources that says otherwise. Thats not the point, Fact is the mongol wars were not fought over religion. And its a fact that the mongols who embraced Islam layed down their arms.
So now Al-qeada attacked U.S because they were christian? Did anyone bother to know what were al-qaeda motives behind 9/11?
You mean like homos and straight people being equal? Males and females being equal? different colored people being equal? Sure never, It's part of life man.
Whatever i have different sources that says otherwise. Thats not the point, Fact is the mongol wars were not fought over religion. And its a fact that the mongols who embraced Islam layed down their arms.
So now Al-qeada attacked U.S because they were christian? Did anyone bother to know what were al-qaeda motives behind 9/11?
that article doesn't say that they attacked the US because they are Christians, but that they used their religious beliefs as an excuse to attack. and considering that they (Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations that follow them and their beliefs) have declared Jihad on the west, it sounds like that's exactly what they did. but the difference is, that these people are not true Muslims.
No they never used their religious beliefs to attack the U.S. When did any Al-qaeda member ever say "I'm attacking you because my religious beliefs commands me to"? They used facts such as the dozens of U.S military bases "occupying the lands of Mohammed" to put it in Osama's own words. The U.S support for israel and its supplies of weapons to israel being used on Muslims. Thats their motive behind 9/11. Thats what Al-qaeda repeated many times in videos and audio tapes. It had nothing to do with religion except that "al-qaeda asked for Gods 'help' to achieve their plans". Thats it. Can't believe how uninformed some of you are.
How could you even say that when The conversion by a number of mongolian princes and leaders of hordes into Islam like Ghazan Khan, Fourth in descent from Halaku Khan, succeeded to the throne in 1295. He was also second descendant of Changez Khan to accept the religion of Islam along with his one hundred thousand followers.
Baraka Khan who was chief of the Golden Horde who was also in a close alliance with the Mamluk Sultan of Egypt. What about the western Khanates who adopted Islam? It's a fact that the infighting and weakness of tribal governance were one of the principal causes of their fall.
Also, Ilkhan Ghazan who ruled Persia from 1256 to 1353. who also converted to Islam in 1295 and actively supported the expansion of this religion in his empire which led to many internal feuds between them and other leaders which ultimately led to the fall of the mongolia empire. I'm not saying the whole fall was largely do to the acceptance of faith but it had very much to do with it.
How could you even say that when The conversion by a number of mongolian princes and leaders of hordes into Islam like Ghazan Khan, Fourth in descent from Halaku Khan, succeeded to the throne in 1295. He was also second descendant of Changez Khan to accept the religion of Islam along with his one hundred thousand followers.
Baraka Khan who was chief of the Golden Horde who was also in a close alliance with the Mamluk Sultan of Egypt. What about the western Khanates who adopted Islam? It's a fact that the infighting and weakness of tribal governance were one of the principal causes of their fall.
Also, Ilkhan Ghazan who ruled Persia from 1256 to 1353. who also converted to Islam in 1295 and actively supported the expansion of this religion in his empire which led to many internal feuds between them and other leaders which ultimately led to the fall of the mongolia empire. I'm not saying the whole fall was largely do to the acceptance of faith but it had very much to do with it.
that still has nothing to do with the quote i posted.
Using a man who was once buddhist who converted to islam and then destroyed buddhist temples and forcefuly converted them to islam as an example of peace is nice.
They allied with the Mamluks to fight the Ilkhan Khanate, an islamic khanate...and?
Of course there was infighting, thats why the khanates were made. The mongol empire actually had a very sophisticated goverment taken from many civilizations, except the empire was too large to maintain.
The mongols were open to all religions, thats why there were christian mongols, buddhist mongols, muslim mongols, shamanist mongols. The mongol empire was already about to fall because of bad leaders and kublai khan not caring about expanding to the west anymore.
If you say islam had a part to do in it might as well say every religion they came across had something to do with it too.
Using a man who was once buddhist who converted to islam and then destroyed buddhist temples and forcefuly converted them to islam as an example of peace is nice.
They allied with the Mamluks to fight the Ilkhan Khanate, an islamic khanate...and?
Of course there was infighting, thats why the khanates were made. The mongol empire actually had a very sophisticated goverment taken from many civilizations, except the empire was too large to maintain.
The mongols were open to all religions, thats why there were christian mongols, buddhist mongols, muslim mongols, shamanist mongols. The mongol empire was already about to fall because of bad leaders and kublai khan not caring about expanding to the west anymore.
If you say islam had a part to do in it might as well say every religion they came across had something to do with it too.
bash me, and prove me wrong
they havent...
and glock, yeah, they might, but its just one incident, isnt it?? i mean, muslims have shit with christians as a whole, then jews, then a certain division of them hates indians, many hate americans.... it's really an on going thing for them.... correct me if im wrong, but the only time an indian spoke out and said something was wrong, was in the 1940's or so, with gandhi.... but that was more civil rights....
in this case, the muslim leaders say that american is the devil (or something similar...we're evil, intolerant, what-the-fuck-ever), yet they do the same thing they say we do to them... they call us names right back...
I agree with Teck's central point about most wars not being fought over religion, although there were a few idiosyncrasies involved (Rome brutally supressed Christianity and Judaism for hundreds of years, for example).
In fact, even the Crusades had economic motives and other motives outside of religion.
And before the Pope comments about Islam being spread violently, perhaps he should recall the 30 Years War, the Inquisition, the mass slaughter of the Huguenots in France, the Crusades, the Holy Roman Empire, Russian pogroms etc. And that's just listing the names of major wars/actions.
In fact, even the Crusades had economic motives and other motives outside of religion.
And before the Pope comments about Islam being spread violently, perhaps he should recall the 30 Years War, the Inquisition, the mass slaughter of the Huguenots in France, the Crusades, the Holy Roman Empire, Russian pogroms etc. And that's just listing the names of major wars/actions.
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