Pope's support for Islam

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#1
Source, CNN




Muslim fury at pope jihad comments

(CNN) -- Pope Benedict XVI came under a hail of criticism from the Islamic world Friday for comments he made earlier in the week regarding the Prophet Mohammed and the Muslim faith.

A growing chorus of Muslim leaders have called on the pope to apologize for the remarks he made in a speech in Germany on Tuesday when he used the terms "jihad" and "holy war."

Pakistan's National Assembly, parliament's lower house, unanimously passed a resolution on Friday condemning the pope's comments.

In his speech, Benedict quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus who said, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Before quoting Paleologus during his address at the University of Regensburg on Tuesday, the pontiff noted the "brusqueness," or discourteous nature of the emperor's statement.

"God," the emperor, as the pope quoted, said, "is not pleased by blood -- and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature." (Full story)

A transcript of the pope's remarks obtained by the Associated Press television network reads: "In the seventh (sura, or chapter of the Quran), the emperor comes to speak about jihad, holy war.

"The emperor certainly knew that Sura 2, 256, reads: 'No force in matters of faith'. It is one of the early suras, from a time -- as experts say -- in which Muhammed himself was still powerless and threatened.

"However, the emperor of course also knew the requirements about the holy war that were later formulated in the Quran. Without going into details like the handling of the owners of the scriptures, or non-believers, he (the emperor) turned to his interlocutors -- in a surprisingly brusque way -- with the central question after the relationship between religion and violence.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

A Vatican statement said Benedict was not trying offend Muslims with his remarks.

"It was certainly not the intention of the Holy Father to ... offend the sensibilities of Muslim faithful," said Federico Lombardi, the Vatican press officer.

But offense was taken as Islamic groups and governments from across the globe weighed in.

"The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) regrets the quotations cited by the pope on the Life of the Honorable Prophet Mohammed, and what he referred to as 'spreading' Islam 'by the sword,'" a statement released by the OIC on Thursday said.

"The attribution of the spread of Islam around the world to the shedding of blood and violence, which is 'incompatible with the nature of God' is a complete distortion of the facts, which shows deep ignorance of Islam and Islamic history."

Muslim Brotherhood Chairman Mohammed Mahdi Akef also expressed anger over the pope's academic speech.

"The pope's statements come to add fuel to fire and trigger anger within the Muslim world and show that the West with its politicians and clerics are hostile to Islam."

Condemnation also came from Turkey where Benedict is scheduled to visit in November.

"His words are extremely regrettable, worrying and unfortunate in terms of the Christian world and common peace of humanity," the Anatolian state news agency quoted Ali Bardakoglu, the head of Ankara's Directorate General for Religious Affairs, as saying.

"I do not see any use in somebody visiting the Islamic world who thinks in this way about the holy prophet of Islam."

In Pakistan, the National Assembly and Senate on Friday passed unanimous resolutions against Benedict's controversial remarks.

The Pakistan Foreign Office also called into question the pope's comments, calling them highly controversial, regrettable and against Islam.

But the Vatican statement said Benedict's discussion on Tuesday was quite to the contrary.

"The Holy Father's desire (is) to cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue towards other religions and cultures, including, of course, Islam."

According to Lombardi, Benedict's speech was "a warning, addressed to Western culture, to avoid 'the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom.'"
 

Duke

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#2
Muslims taking offense? What else is new?

Anyway, intra-religious wars, as an atheist I'm all for it. Bring on the carnage.

*grabs popcorn*
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#3
Ok, the Pope quoted someone talking about Mohammed and now millions of muslims around the globe are angry because they think its his point of view?

I dont know the whole speech (just like 95% of the people who are furious right now), but it wouldnt surprise me if everything is taken out of context....as always.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#9
The Turkish leader compared the Pope to Hitler and Mussolini. I'm sure his ratings went up for that among the Muslim people.
 

Jokerman

Well-Known Member
#13
Jurhum said:
Here is what I do not understand, why on earth did the pop choose to quote that specific comment?
Because he believes it. He correctly believes that jihad is a part of Islam. And he thinks that's a problem.
 

TecK NeeX

On Probation: Please report break in guidelines to
#14
An obvious crusade vs the Muslims

Crusade Vs Jihad?

Unlike the first crusades where the Muslims pretty much beat the shit out of the crusaders, I hate to say it but we'd get our asses kicked pretty good this time around.

Edit: I really couldnt give a flying fuck what the pope has to say, he should really focus on the problems in his own church.
 

Jurhum

Well-Known Member
#15
Jokerman said:
Because he believes it. He correctly believes that jihad is a part of Islam. And he thinks that's a problem.
Funny. Jihad is a part of Islam. Jihad is more like the defense ministry of Islam. Just like every systematic government has a military branch, so does Islam. However, Jihad is only in self-defense.

Jihad of the soul also is part of Islam.
 
#16
A few things about this:

The Pope's speech was about how the West fails to give God a place in "reason" and therefore they become material and secularized. He wanted to say that reason and faith can be brought together.

For some reason, he touched on Islam and violence in the name of Islam. He decided to quote "Theodore Khoury, an expert on Byzantium, who has reprinted the text of a late Middle Ages dialogue between a Byzantine emperor, Manuel II Paleologus, and a Persian Muslim."

So he used this text, a quote from Manuel: 'Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'

So what was the point? Apparently the Pope was trying to tell Muslims not to follow Muhammad's command for Jihad. "Jihad," which means "struggle" or "striving" or "a great effort," refers to either the struggle of the soul to overcome sin, or, in the Pope's speech, a struggle (military or otherwise) against oppression and tyranny.

Muhammad's wars were fought in a time of war and tribal and religous conflict. The Pope, in his speech, was condemning violence in Islam because this is a time of reason and peace, and we should be able to work out our problems in a peaceful way. He was telling the world that we have evolved past the need for violence and that, while most of Muhammad's teachings are good, the teaching on Jihad is not needed in today's world.

SOURCES:
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=7224
"No god But God" by Reza Aslan

In my opinion the Pope was not trying to offend anyone, but his stance that violence is not wanted by God ever, and that God does have opinions on these things, seems unreasonable. It is true that Muhammad was a warrior, and that he defended Islam. He had to. It wasn't right or wrong, it was just necessary.
 

Sebastian

Well-Known Member
#17
XIAN said:
A few things about this:

The Pope's speech was about how the West fails to give God a place in "reason" and therefore they become material and secularized. He wanted to say that reason and faith can be brought together.

For some reason, he touched on Islam and violence in the name of Islam. He decided to quote "Theodore Khoury, an expert on Byzantium, who has reprinted the text of a late Middle Ages dialogue between a Byzantine emperor, Manuel II Paleologus, and a Persian Muslim."

So he used this text, a quote from Manuel: 'Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'

So what was the point? Apparently the Pope was trying to tell Muslims not to follow Muhammad's command for Jihad. "Jihad," which means "struggle" or "striving" or "a great effort," refers to either the struggle of the soul to overcome sin, or, in the Pope's speech, a struggle (military or otherwise) against oppression and tyranny.

Muhammad's wars were fought in a time of war and tribal and religous conflict. The Pope, in his speech, was condemning violence in Islam because this is a time of reason and peace, and we should be able to work out our problems in a peaceful way. He was telling the world that we have evolved past the need for violence and that, while most of Muhammad's teachings are good, the teaching on Jihad is not needed in today's world.

SOURCES:
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=7224
"No god But God" by Reza Aslan

In my opinion the Pope was not trying to offend anyone, but his stance that violence is not wanted by God ever, and that God does have opinions on these things, seems unreasonable. It is true that Muhammad was a warrior, and that he defended Islam. He had to. It wasn't right or wrong, it was just necessary.
I definitely agree with this part but i dont think muslims all over the world will :(
 
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