Immigration Bill
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i think making them all legal is a bad idea, it sends a bad message. come break the law and we'll make you a legal citizen.
but really, we need a wall. my main reason for needing a wall is too keep the mexican army out. this would keep them from crossing our borders,which they have been doing a lot lately and bringing in drugs, and having wild west style chases and shoot out with our under funded police and border potrol.
the senates bill is good. i could agree with most of it if not all.
there are things about each plan that i like. a few things i dont.
one of the things i like about frist's bill is that it would fine employers who hire illegal aliens, because that is hurting the regular citizens that have paid taxes their whole adult life and cant find work because employers can pay and illegal alien less than min. wage for a job they would have to pay double, triple, or even four or five times the amount for the same job.
but really, we need a wall. my main reason for needing a wall is too keep the mexican army out. this would keep them from crossing our borders,which they have been doing a lot lately and bringing in drugs, and having wild west style chases and shoot out with our under funded police and border potrol.
the senates bill is good. i could agree with most of it if not all.
there are things about each plan that i like. a few things i dont.
one of the things i like about frist's bill is that it would fine employers who hire illegal aliens, because that is hurting the regular citizens that have paid taxes their whole adult life and cant find work because employers can pay and illegal alien less than min. wage for a job they would have to pay double, triple, or even four or five times the amount for the same job.
I'm a fan of the bill overall. We need to start regulating the illegal aliens in the country. Increased security at the border is definitely a good thing. Hopefully would reduce not only illegal aliens, but also contraband trafficking to some extent. Also, making it a misdemeanor to be an illegal alien would force them to go through with this process, which would allow the government to monitor their employment, specifically their wages. That, along with the fines, should decrease any incentive companies have to hire illegals.
That is my point. If the government would make sure all those illegal aliens that work illegally in the states were paid the same wages as everyone else (tricky, granted), any incentive these companies would have to hire these illegals are effectively destroyed.
I remember Maddox going over this like 4 years ago. He had a couple of good points.
I remember Maddox going over this like 4 years ago. He had a couple of good points.
LMAO you've clearly never been to a walmart in the states have you? saying that also is implying that walmart is hiring illegal aliens too the same amount as the farmers and construction businesses. i think one walmart made the news for hiring illegal mexicans but clearly that was fault on the management at that store, and does not mean that is going on all over.
i understand what you're saying but the idea just doesnt work. it sends the wrong message.
i understand what you're saying but the idea just doesnt work. it sends the wrong message.
It doesnt matter whether it's Walmart or the next company. Point is they're getting hired.
People come to the States for work. Companies employ them, despite the risk of breaking the law, because they ask for much less money than the country's own workforce.
Now, if you force the companies employing them to pay Jose the same wage that Joe gets, the incentive the company had to emply Jose in the first place is gone, and Joe doesnt have to fear unfair competition. If Jose actually does a better job than Joe, then all credit to him and Joe should work harder.
Now, this is tackling the problem at the roots instead of milling about the muddy waters trying to stop the effects. The reason this most likely is never going to happen is because a government will try to protect it's domestic labour market from overflooding immigrants willing to work harder. In other words, it's being selfish. Why is it being selfish? Because the country's higher rate of living needs more money to sustain itself, thus opening the gates to a whole new pool of labourers is suicide in their eyes. Because they don't wanna see Cindy, who is doing a 2nd rate job, get replaced by Augusta, who does a 1st rate job. Now Jack, who also does a 1st rate job, won't get replaced by a second rate Miguel, because Joe is doing fine in the first place.
Harsh, but true. And there's some sense in it from the government/people's perspective. But I plead for a free labour market. If you get out-worked by someone else, work harder. Period.
EDIT: This is more in general than about the bill.
People come to the States for work. Companies employ them, despite the risk of breaking the law, because they ask for much less money than the country's own workforce.
Now, if you force the companies employing them to pay Jose the same wage that Joe gets, the incentive the company had to emply Jose in the first place is gone, and Joe doesnt have to fear unfair competition. If Jose actually does a better job than Joe, then all credit to him and Joe should work harder.
Now, this is tackling the problem at the roots instead of milling about the muddy waters trying to stop the effects. The reason this most likely is never going to happen is because a government will try to protect it's domestic labour market from overflooding immigrants willing to work harder. In other words, it's being selfish. Why is it being selfish? Because the country's higher rate of living needs more money to sustain itself, thus opening the gates to a whole new pool of labourers is suicide in their eyes. Because they don't wanna see Cindy, who is doing a 2nd rate job, get replaced by Augusta, who does a 1st rate job. Now Jack, who also does a 1st rate job, won't get replaced by a second rate Miguel, because Joe is doing fine in the first place.
Harsh, but true. And there's some sense in it from the government/people's perspective. But I plead for a free labour market. If you get out-worked by someone else, work harder. Period.
EDIT: This is more in general than about the bill.
are jose and joe the same person:laugh: j/k
the companies employee them because they lack morals and are greedy. if there were laws that would fine employers for hiring illegal aliens then people who have been citizens their whole lifes and payed taxes their whole adult life, wouldnt have to worry about some illegal alien being hired for the same job
the companies employee them because they lack morals and are greedy. if there were laws that would fine employers for hiring illegal aliens then people who have been citizens their whole lifes and payed taxes their whole adult life, wouldnt have to worry about some illegal alien being hired for the same job
do you realize that the MAJORITY of the jobs that immigrants 'TAKE AWAY' from citizens are the ones those same citizens don't want because its BENEATH THEM. oh but wait a minute, their is a solution to this
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/30/immigration.house.ap.ap/index.html
here is a thought, if prison is run by the inmates with a black market economy whereas they can bring in ANYTHING IMAGINABLE TO THE PLATE, do YOU really want to eat fruit picked by them??????
in the END who really benefits from this 'SOLUTION'? with getting EVEN CHEAPER LABOR, to complete jobs, where will all these NEW profits go????
lets not be nieve as this being the only type of jobs available to both immigrants and citizens, but i really hope everyone opens their eyes to whats really going on
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/30/immigration.house.ap.ap/index.html
here is a thought, if prison is run by the inmates with a black market economy whereas they can bring in ANYTHING IMAGINABLE TO THE PLATE, do YOU really want to eat fruit picked by them??????
in the END who really benefits from this 'SOLUTION'? with getting EVEN CHEAPER LABOR, to complete jobs, where will all these NEW profits go????
lets not be nieve as this being the only type of jobs available to both immigrants and citizens, but i really hope everyone opens their eyes to whats really going on
People who say this are full of shit. I know dozens and dozens of teenagers looking for jobs. Hell, I couldn't get a job for the longest time.
No, immigrants don't take away a single job, it's true. Businesses give them away.
What's the problem that y'all have with this? The bill will turn illegal, wage-taking, tax-evading aliens and turn them into citizens.
Oh, and prisoners get work release. It works out well with the ones who don't try to run, which happens more often than you'd like to think (I know, my mom works in the prison and tells me whenever such things happen). Plus, the prisoners have to be willing to work hard out in the hot sun all day. Farming isn't easy. My friend worked on his uncle's farm, and came back with scratches and bruises all the time. You can't force them to do it, or it'd be borderline slavery.
No, immigrants don't take away a single job, it's true. Businesses give them away.
What's the problem that y'all have with this? The bill will turn illegal, wage-taking, tax-evading aliens and turn them into citizens.
Oh, and prisoners get work release. It works out well with the ones who don't try to run, which happens more often than you'd like to think (I know, my mom works in the prison and tells me whenever such things happen). Plus, the prisoners have to be willing to work hard out in the hot sun all day. Farming isn't easy. My friend worked on his uncle's farm, and came back with scratches and bruises all the time. You can't force them to do it, or it'd be borderline slavery.
do you realize that what your are saying is not true. instead of taking the MSM's word on things how about talking to real everyday citizens who disagree with that asumption and cant get work in their field because it is given to a person who is an illegal alien because the employer wants to see more money. like construction jobs for instance.
my father works with a woman whose husband is a brick layer. the man hasnt had work in such a long time because all the construction company owners in the area would rather pay an illegal alien less than 4 dollars an hour compared to 15+ and hour plus overtime and benefits.
as far as the prisoner thing, you seem to have a cloudy view of prisoners that work with in the prison. they are ALLOWED to work these jobs because they have PROVEN themselves to be turning themselves around and being a productive member of the prison population and they are on the right path to being rehabilitated and assimilated back into a society. that is part of prison. you have to gain trust and with that you get rewarded for being a good member of the prison society.
my father works with a woman whose husband is a brick layer. the man hasnt had work in such a long time because all the construction company owners in the area would rather pay an illegal alien less than 4 dollars an hour compared to 15+ and hour plus overtime and benefits.
as far as the prisoner thing, you seem to have a cloudy view of prisoners that work with in the prison. they are ALLOWED to work these jobs because they have PROVEN themselves to be turning themselves around and being a productive member of the prison population and they are on the right path to being rehabilitated and assimilated back into a society. that is part of prison. you have to gain trust and with that you get rewarded for being a good member of the prison society.
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