Go Bush

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

My why all the hostility? Calm down brother. Noone's trying to be a know-it-all or a do-gooder, just trying to see a positive light in a dark situation.
All life is precious and should be treated as such.
A man will be fined and/or go to jail for the mistreatment and cruelty of an animal but helping someone die isn't illegal, go figure.

 

[CoolWaterz]

My why all the hostility? Calm down brother. Noone's trying to be a know-it-all or a do-gooder, just trying to see a positive light in a dark situation.
All life is precious and should be treated as such.
A man will be fined and/or go to jail for the mistreatment and cruelty of an animal but helping someone die isn't illegal, go figure.

i get angry because its sheer selfishness. Noone wants to live a veggie, not me and not you so who are you kidding..the family cant live through the pain of losing her, so their keeping her artifically alive when shes not a fraction of a person. Its sick learn to let go and if these people "believe" so much, like all the right wingers their reaching out to, theyd know shed be going to a better place.

 

[CoolWaterz]

A man will be fined and/or go to jail for the mistreatment and cruelty of an animal but helping someone die isn't illegal, go figure.

What are you talking about again? Euthanasia is illegal??? im dumbfounded....

 

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

i get angry because its sheer selfishness. Noone wants to live a veggie, not me and not you so who are you kidding..the family cant live through the pain of losing her, so their keeping her artifically alive when shes not a fraction of a person. Its sick learn to let go and if these people "believe" so much, like all the right wingers their reaching out to, theyd know shed be going to a better place.

Not at all, I completely agree with you. All I was saying is that she should have been given the chance to get therapy and see what would have happened. If it wouldn't have helped her, then so be it, but if it would have, then she would be in a much better state than she is now. It's just that it pisses me off that the husband was given all this money to get her help and he did nothing. Nothing at all. If it was my husband in that situation and I was given the money to help him when otherwise I wouldn't have been able to help, then I would have spent as much as it took to help him, even if it took every last dime of it. And I think you probably would have done the same thing if it was your wife.
I'm just that type of person, I try to see the good in everyone, and I have sympathy for people in her situation. I'm just a very soft-hearted person. Maybe that's a bad thing but that's the way I've always been and always will be. And I just don't see how anyone can be as cold-hearted as to let a loved one die rather than at least try to help them. It's just a very sad case to me.

 

[tupacmansion]

i get angry because its sheer selfishness. Noone wants to live a veggie, not me and not you so who are you kidding..the family cant live through the pain of losing her, so their keeping her artifically alive when shes not a fraction of a person. Its sick learn to let go and if these people "believe" so much, like all the right wingers their reaching out to, theyd know shed be going to a better place.

For all we know this woman may want to live, I mean if it is true that she smiles when she sees ger parents, then why shud she be killed. No one has the right to take her life. I mean if there is the slightest chance of her makin a small recovery then this woman deserves to live. To kill her is sheer selfishness, keeping her alive, watching her suffer is the unselfish option.

 

[Glockmatic]

Noone's saying that she can recover now. By all likelyhood, she's too far gone to recover now.

yet they're still keeping her alive

But still yet, who knows what she could do if given the chance. Her husband has never given her the chance. But yet he claims he loves her. If he did, don't you think that he'd rather see her parapalegic than dead?

You'd rather see a loved one as a vegetable then ending the misery?

Cause that's probably all she would have been had she been given rehabilitation like he was supposed to give her. Her feeding tube has been removed a few times before and she hung on everytime. Once for 6 days. To me that doesn't sound like someone that wants to die. That's the will to live IMO. Could you survive 6 days without any food, water or any other kind of nurishment? If you wanted to live, yes you could. If you had no will to live, then probably, no you wouldn't.Noone can know what's going on inside this woman's head but if I had to guess, I'd say she wants to live given the fact that she pulled through after 6 days without nurishment. To me that's a miracle and that's sheer willpower, the willpower to live.
At any rate, it's just an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with it.
Have a nice day.

If i sat in my home for a week without food or water i would live, even if i wanted to die, its something called the human body that keeps you alive, not a will to survive. Put someone in the desert for 3 days in the desert without water and food and see how long the person will survive, even with a will to survive the person will die in 2 days.

 

[Glockmatic]

For all we know this woman may want to live, I mean if it is true that she smiles when she sees ger parents, then why shud she be killed. No one has the right to take her life. I mean if there is the slightest chance of her makin a small recovery then this woman deserves to live. To kill her is sheer selfishness, keeping her alive, watching her suffer is the unselfish option.

what if she recovers and asks to be euthanised? Would be a HUGE waste of time going through all this court shit that shouldnt even be happening.

 

[CoolWaterz]

Not at all, I completely agree with you. All I was saying is that she should have been given the chance to get therapy and see what would have happened. If it wouldn't have helped her, then so be it, but if it would have, then she would be in a much better state than she is now. It's just that it pisses me off that the husband was given all this money to get her help and he did nothing. Nothing at all. If it was my husband in that situation and I was given the money to help him when otherwise I wouldn't have been able to help, then I would have spent as much as it took to help him, even if it took every last dime of it. And I think you probably would have done the same thing if it was your wife.
I'm just that type of person, I try to see the good in everyone, and I have sympathy for people in her situation. I'm just a very soft-hearted person. Maybe that's a bad thing but that's the way I've always been and always will be. And I just don't see how anyone can be as cold-hearted as to let a loved one die rather than at least try to help them. It's just a very sad case to me.

I agree about the therapy thing and the husband. Of course i would do my best to try for my loved to get better or at least have the ability to know what is going on and respond to how she wants me to continue. Maybe you shouldnt be debating with me though because I was all for Dr Kivorkian(aka Dr "Death" wOooOo) after watching these people on videotape, half vegetables in pain and barely able to function begging the man to let them die in a respectable way. I was also all for doctors who during the Holocaust fed the sick people poison so they died peacefully rather than go through who knows what at the hands of the Nazi's. I guess im pro-euthanasia.

 

[CoolWaterz]

To kill her is sheer selfishness, keeping her alive, watching her suffer is the unselfish option.

YOu are so wrong about that its not even funny. I feel for you if your decendants feel this way when your an old man. You need to go watch a loved one face to face like i did and watch him take his final breaths which probably could have been sustained a few more torturous days. You go tell the doctor to keep him here when you know in your heart, that letting go is what he would want.
Go through that shit and come back to me until then dont talk to me about this shit

 

[VENOMOUS]

She is brain damaged , because she is brain damage doesnt mean she deserves to die.Her brain is just so fucked up that she doesnt even know how to swallow.She is alive,she feels pain,she is breathing on her own she just suffered a very debilatating injury,she cant take care of herself,but that doesnt mean she should die.

and her husband just wants the insurance money that he will recive when she passes away.

Of course no one would like to be in her condition...... but think about it who wants any harm to come to ones self period?She is not on life support.She does not deserve to go thru a totureous death. when she has already been thru so much.

Thats just fucked up.

 

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

what if she recovers and asks to be euthanised? Would be a HUGE waste of time going through all this court shit that shouldnt even be happening.

Good point. But there is a lot of what-ifs in life. What if she recovered from this, what if she didn't, what if she recovered and then died for some other reason. My point is that she should have been given the chance. I'd feel the same way about anyone in that situation, regardless of who it is. I mean come on, the man was given the money to get her help, help that could have saved her from being in the state she's in now. He had the money right there to be used for her and he chose not to. That is very selfish of him to do that. All I'm saying is give someone a chance to live instead of making them lay there and die slowly and not give them any kind of help.
There's always two sides to everything. This will be in and out of court and debated until she dies apparantly and that's very sad.

 

[Luv4Pac4Ever]

YOu are so wrong about that its not even funny. I feel for you if your decendants feel this way when your an old man. You need to go watch a loved one face to face like i did and watch him take his final breaths which probably could have been sustained a few more torturous days. You go tell the doctor to keep him here when you know in your heart, that letting go is what he would want.
Go through that shit and come back to me until then dont talk to me about this shit

And you're very right Cool Waterz. My grandfather died almost 10 years ago and it was very painful for me to see him in the state he was in. He could only whisper what he wanted to say a few words at a time. It was so painful for me that I couldn't bear to even go see him the last few weeks he was alive and now I hate myself for that. I wish I would've went there, if only for the fact that he knew I was there. I wish I could've talked to him before he died and told him that I love him. I couldn't even go to the casket at his funeral, I just didn't want to remember him that way. I want to remember the crazy, outgoing man that he was before he got sick. I regret that now but it's not something I can change. I have to live with that the rest of my life. You don't want to see someone you love die but at the same time, you don't want to see them suffer either. It's a very hard decision to have to make and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the one that had to make it.

 

[tupacmansion]

what if she recovers and asks to be euthanised? Would be a HUGE waste of time going through all this court shit that shouldnt even be happening.

if she asks to be euthanised then that is her choice, she has chosen to escape the pain. But you can't take someones life without their permission

YOu are so wrong about that its not even funny. I feel for you if your decendants feel this way when your an old man. You need to go watch a loved one face to face like i did and watch him take his final breaths which probably could have been sustained a few more torturous days. You go tell the doctor to keep him here when you know in your heart, that letting go is what he would want.
Go through that shit and come back to me until then dont talk to me about this shit.

I know what your sayin, this is a delicate subject. Its just that I value life greatly. Its sad to see someone suffer like this, but its also sad to see someone die. Even if there is the smallest chance of recovery then why not keep em alive. Also its sad to hear about loved ones going through pain and dying, but lets not forget about the people who actually recover, and restore hapiness to their lives.

 

[Glockmatic]

She is brain damaged , because she is brain damage doesnt mean she deserves to die.Her brain is just so fucked up that she doesnt even know how to swallow.She is alive,she feels pain,she is breathing on her own she just suffered a very debilatating injury,she cant take care of herself,but that doesnt mean she should die.

and her husband just wants the insurance money that he will recive when she passes away.

Of course no one would like to be in her condition...... but think about it who wants any harm to come to ones self period?She is not on life support.She does not deserve to go thru a totureous death. when she has already been thru so much.

Thats just fucked up.

Her cerebral cortex is dead, thats the part of the brain that controls conciousness, emotion and thought. When you see her turn her head to someone clapping beside her ear, that is her brain stem reacting, its the part of the brain that controls swallowing, breathing, digestion etc, its the most primitive part of the brain.

The thing i don't get is why the goverment had to step in on this one, its a precident that would mean that the goverment could walk in on decisions that your family could go through. Your family member's heart stopped 10 times and you want doctors to stop resuscitation? Goverment could tell you no because that person has a right to live.

 

[VENOMOUS]

so what part of the brain controls sub conciousness

 

[Glockmatic]

if by subconscious you mean breathing/heart-beat, its the brain stem. It controls the bare essentials that our body needs to survive.

 

[hizzle?]

For all we know this woman may want to live, I mean if it is true that she smiles when she sees ger parents, then why shud she be killed.

well, i believe that it's her subconscient that remebers them...i dont really know how to say it, but loving them makes her happy and thats probably one of the only things that she remembers... it's amazing that she doesn't know how to walk, read, write and talk but that she can remember her parents.... it's cute


on the other had, did you see the way her parents talk to her??? they are treating her like a baby...

they are like "guagagugugagagaguguguggigiaugaugaaa" then she says "ghuuuh??" then her mother is like "oooh she understood what i said!"

i am not laughing at them it's just that it's sad to see a mother desesperate like this....


as for those who say that it wouldn't be right to "kill" her...
well is it better to torture her like this...it's pretty logical that no one wants to live like this.

I agree with everything that coolwaterz said...he is right...which is rare

and i agree with luv4pac, they should have treatened her and helped her when it was the right time....but it's too bad that the american heatlh care system sucks major cock....they should have transfered her to canada


and i personally think that every man/woman should write some document that says if they should let them die when they are living like veggies...pardon the term used here

 

[hizzle?]

if she asks to be euthanised then that is her choice, she has chosen to escape the pain. But you can't take someones life without their permission

the thing is that she doesn't even know that she is in this situation...
but your argument can go both ways...to me the only thing it does, is that it wastes a lot of money to your gouvernement...I am not being ignorant here...It's just sarcasm.... she will never recover...it's too late...i think that the BIG maximum to recover from something like this is 5 years(i believe, because i read about this case a couple of years ago in some exam i had in high school) after that, you forget everything you learned before...it's something like when you forget a language....you can learn it again....but she can't because her cortex isn't functioning anymore

 

[MX Red]

If you take the example of a sick dog - if a vet tells you to put the dog down but u refuse to over here u can be charged with crulty to animals. Its the same principle in many respects....we consider it humane to put animals down to save thier suffering but not humans?

All the people who are on the right-to-life side...you are not supporting 'life', you are supporting someone right to breath...she has no life, no chance of recovery...u are not supporting this womans right to 'life', only her right to breath - i hate the way you all word it.
peace
MX!

 

[The.Menace]

If you take the example of a sick dog - if a vet tells you to put the dog down but u refuse to over here u can be charged with crulty to animals. Its the same principle in many respects....we consider it humane to put animals down to save thier suffering but not humans?

All the people who are on the right-to-life side...you are not supporting 'life', you are supporting someone right to breath...she has no life, no chance of recovery...u are not supporting this womans right to 'life', only her right to breath - i hate the way you all word it.
peace
MX!

great post. I agree. :thumb: