Att: Rukas and everyone Else.
- Thread starter Jurhum
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I have nothing against Islam, I have many Muslim friends and look up to many Muslim people; but at some stage Islam needs to accept responsibility for some of its faults and the actions it leads to.
You teach your kids they arent allowed to listen to music or watch movies from other countries, you tell them the rest of the world is the devil, and then you look suprised when these kids sacrafice their innocent lives to kill more innocent people.
Perhaps if Muslims listened to western music and watched western movies, read western books, they would find more similarties than differences and we could finally have some peace.
You cant teach that a group of people or a region is the devil, and then pass the blame off on "extremists who misinterpret the Quaran" when fellow Muslims kill innocent people in what they think is a rightious act fueled by your very teachings.
It's time Islam as a whole took responsibility.
You teach your kids they arent allowed to listen to music or watch movies from other countries, you tell them the rest of the world is the devil, and then you look suprised when these kids sacrafice their innocent lives to kill more innocent people.
Perhaps if Muslims listened to western music and watched western movies, read western books, they would find more similarties than differences and we could finally have some peace.
You cant teach that a group of people or a region is the devil, and then pass the blame off on "extremists who misinterpret the Quaran" when fellow Muslims kill innocent people in what they think is a rightious act fueled by your very teachings.
It's time Islam as a whole took responsibility.
Bit general dont u think? I dont ever recall my parents teaching me that. Are you sayin all muslims/muslim parents act this way? That seems what you're implying here. And what's the percentage of those that blow themselves up to the total number of muslims? So what's not to be surprised about?
Not all muslims forbid listening to music, watching films etc. In my view, doing that sort of thing would be weird ie out of the ordinary. God knows where you got this view from. The wrongs and crimes commited are by people not the religion. Islam, like all the other religions, can be taken for good or bad. What people say is Islam out there, is not. When people say theyre blowing children up for Islam thats bullshit, when they say other nations are the devil, its not Islam and so on and so forth.
Its all a matter of perspective. There's sheep on one side of the line who follow one trend and claim Islam while hating other nations based on the actions of a few, then there's sheep on the other side of the line, like you, who paint all muslims with the same brush, based on the actions of those who hate.
Not all muslims forbid listening to music, watching films etc. In my view, doing that sort of thing would be weird ie out of the ordinary. God knows where you got this view from. The wrongs and crimes commited are by people not the religion. Islam, like all the other religions, can be taken for good or bad. What people say is Islam out there, is not. When people say theyre blowing children up for Islam thats bullshit, when they say other nations are the devil, its not Islam and so on and so forth.
Its all a matter of perspective. There's sheep on one side of the line who follow one trend and claim Islam while hating other nations based on the actions of a few, then there's sheep on the other side of the line, like you, who paint all muslims with the same brush, based on the actions of those who hate.
No, notice I wordered it very carefully, I said Islam, not Muslims, Taliq just decided to twist my words to somehow try to divert the argument somewhere he can deal with.
Sure not all Muslims teach their kids that the west is evil, but a lot of them do, and they only do it because Islam allows and encourages them to do so through means such as this. For that Islam needs to hold itself accountable.
At some point you have to stop saying. "its not all Muslims so its not a problem," it is a problem. Islamic teachings allow for and encourage prejudice and intolerance towards the west, as illustrated by this intolerence of any music that is not its own.
Im not saying Islam is evil or that you shouldnt be Muslim, I know there are a lot of wonderful things about the Religion, but there are also a lot of things that are wrong.
Every "good Muslim" swears the terrorists have it wrong, and yet traces of propoganda against anything non Islamic is found in the simplest of your teachings. Like it or not, terrorists are Muslim, teachings like this anti-music deal do create an us vs. them, the world is the devil outlook towards anyone else which does fuel acts of violence against non-Muslims.
Sure, thats what you say, but they say it is Islam, and they use teachings like this, which you can not deny exist, to back up their theories. Therefore since these teachings exist within the whole of Islam, the whole of Islam needs to accept responsibility and take action to stop such Islamic acts.
So what Jurhuh posted isnt Islam then? I believe he quoted the Quaran, so what is it if not Islam? You cant pick and choose what you think is Islam and what you think is not.
What a baby, when your feelings get hurt, or you cant discuss anything like a man, you change the argument to suit your needs. I never generalized Muslims, I stated I respect them and the religion, so how am I a sheep who paints all muslims with the same brush? You're the sheep, because in your eyes, anyone who questions Islamic teaching is against Islam or hating on you or a sheep, when in actual fact, they are just questioning Islam, no harm no foul.
Sure not all Muslims teach their kids that the west is evil, but a lot of them do, and they only do it because Islam allows and encourages them to do so through means such as this. For that Islam needs to hold itself accountable.
At some point you have to stop saying. "its not all Muslims so its not a problem," it is a problem. Islamic teachings allow for and encourage prejudice and intolerance towards the west, as illustrated by this intolerence of any music that is not its own.
Im not saying Islam is evil or that you shouldnt be Muslim, I know there are a lot of wonderful things about the Religion, but there are also a lot of things that are wrong.
Every "good Muslim" swears the terrorists have it wrong, and yet traces of propoganda against anything non Islamic is found in the simplest of your teachings. Like it or not, terrorists are Muslim, teachings like this anti-music deal do create an us vs. them, the world is the devil outlook towards anyone else which does fuel acts of violence against non-Muslims.
Sure, thats what you say, but they say it is Islam, and they use teachings like this, which you can not deny exist, to back up their theories. Therefore since these teachings exist within the whole of Islam, the whole of Islam needs to accept responsibility and take action to stop such Islamic acts.
So what Jurhuh posted isnt Islam then? I believe he quoted the Quaran, so what is it if not Islam? You cant pick and choose what you think is Islam and what you think is not.
What a baby, when your feelings get hurt, or you cant discuss anything like a man, you change the argument to suit your needs. I never generalized Muslims, I stated I respect them and the religion, so how am I a sheep who paints all muslims with the same brush? You're the sheep, because in your eyes, anyone who questions Islamic teaching is against Islam or hating on you or a sheep, when in actual fact, they are just questioning Islam, no harm no foul.
Na, man u really got it twisted, for real.
Peep: Islam, assumin u believe music is a sin (yes it is looked down upon), it considers ALL music a sin - from tha west, tha east tha north or tha south. Tha argument has nuthin to do wit tha west. There's NUTHIN bout films, whether from tha east or tha west or tha south or ne direction. Obviously, films were past its time. Tru, SUM MUSLIMS won't watch Western FIlms, but that's not a concern of Islam. As far as I'm concerned, as a Muslim ur not allowed to watch anythin that would contain sinful material to watch, whether made in tha east or west or wateva.
There is no "propaganda". In Islam, there is no "tha East is better than tha West" or "Non Muslims r tha devil". IN our religion, it says go ahead n eat wit tha Christians n Jews, eat wit them, befriend them, invite each other to teach others houses while tha MEDIA says Islam says hate Christian n Jews. WHere does that garbage come from?
If u KNEW bout Islamic teachins, u'd kno there is no such propaganda n there's NUTHIN that Islam has to "hold it self accountable for". U needa hold urself accountable for not bringin up actual textual evidence IN CONTEXT bout any of this stuff from tha Qur'an rahter than tha Muslims that banish music n western television, etc.
We don't believe neone in tha devil, we don't sit here n plot against tha west, our religion says nuthin of tha sort, so I mean, u can get that out ur mind on tha real. Read tha Quran, read tha Hadith, get an understandin than also remember that translation is not 100% on point, so take it for as much as u can. Than come back n say WHY U THINK Islam doesn't work for u rather than WHY it's RIDICULOUS cuz sum of us think tha points u make r ridiculous.
I'm no nazi Muslim, I try to b a good Muslim n I also try to look at htis objectively - not sayin I'm doin a 100% good job or anythin, but ur failin to provide evidence from our religion, but rather r bringin it from our ppl or wat u hav derived from ur own mind or tha media. Cuz if u knew anythin bout tha religion, u wouldn't hav borught up anytin bout propaganda against tha west n realized our limiitations r for spiritual reasons n not political. There was no America back when the Qur'an arrived (whether u think it was tha revelation of God or man made text), n tha West was still in Dark Ages, so where do u assume it's propaganda against tha West?
Neways, to BeReal, I'm not gonna argue wit u over wat's "ridiculous" since that's completely subjective. I don't find it ridiculous that I believe that anythin God deems filthy, even that particle individual item does not carry a disease, becuz as a believer of God I feel he is omnipotent and omnipowerful n he as a creator, has tha right to deem that. Ur argument maybe that I'm brainwashed n as a Muslim, that I'll take anythin that God says in tha Qur'an as filthy witout question. NOt tru, but I agree wit that Islam is bout, n it all makes sense to me, n for God to ban me from me doin minor stuff he deems filthy, in my opinion, aint' a big deal. So I can't eat rats n hav anal sex? I wouldn't do that if I wasn't Muslim neways.
Peace
Skillz
Peep: Islam, assumin u believe music is a sin (yes it is looked down upon), it considers ALL music a sin - from tha west, tha east tha north or tha south. Tha argument has nuthin to do wit tha west. There's NUTHIN bout films, whether from tha east or tha west or tha south or ne direction. Obviously, films were past its time. Tru, SUM MUSLIMS won't watch Western FIlms, but that's not a concern of Islam. As far as I'm concerned, as a Muslim ur not allowed to watch anythin that would contain sinful material to watch, whether made in tha east or west or wateva.
There is no "propaganda". In Islam, there is no "tha East is better than tha West" or "Non Muslims r tha devil". IN our religion, it says go ahead n eat wit tha Christians n Jews, eat wit them, befriend them, invite each other to teach others houses while tha MEDIA says Islam says hate Christian n Jews. WHere does that garbage come from?
If u KNEW bout Islamic teachins, u'd kno there is no such propaganda n there's NUTHIN that Islam has to "hold it self accountable for". U needa hold urself accountable for not bringin up actual textual evidence IN CONTEXT bout any of this stuff from tha Qur'an rahter than tha Muslims that banish music n western television, etc.
We don't believe neone in tha devil, we don't sit here n plot against tha west, our religion says nuthin of tha sort, so I mean, u can get that out ur mind on tha real. Read tha Quran, read tha Hadith, get an understandin than also remember that translation is not 100% on point, so take it for as much as u can. Than come back n say WHY U THINK Islam doesn't work for u rather than WHY it's RIDICULOUS cuz sum of us think tha points u make r ridiculous.
I'm no nazi Muslim, I try to b a good Muslim n I also try to look at htis objectively - not sayin I'm doin a 100% good job or anythin, but ur failin to provide evidence from our religion, but rather r bringin it from our ppl or wat u hav derived from ur own mind or tha media. Cuz if u knew anythin bout tha religion, u wouldn't hav borught up anytin bout propaganda against tha west n realized our limiitations r for spiritual reasons n not political. There was no America back when the Qur'an arrived (whether u think it was tha revelation of God or man made text), n tha West was still in Dark Ages, so where do u assume it's propaganda against tha West?
Neways, to BeReal, I'm not gonna argue wit u over wat's "ridiculous" since that's completely subjective. I don't find it ridiculous that I believe that anythin God deems filthy, even that particle individual item does not carry a disease, becuz as a believer of God I feel he is omnipotent and omnipowerful n he as a creator, has tha right to deem that. Ur argument maybe that I'm brainwashed n as a Muslim, that I'll take anythin that God says in tha Qur'an as filthy witout question. NOt tru, but I agree wit that Islam is bout, n it all makes sense to me, n for God to ban me from me doin minor stuff he deems filthy, in my opinion, aint' a big deal. So I can't eat rats n hav anal sex? I wouldn't do that if I wasn't Muslim neways.
Peace
Skillz
Wrong. What's stupid is you not even understanding what my post was about. It's not an argument, it's advice when going into arguments. You have to analyze where you get your thoughts from. In your situation, it's cause the west has such a big influence on you that you can't understand anything else. That's why you had such a big debate with not really ken over arranged marriages.
Exactly. Ppl come in n act like their views r tha more advanced rather than tryna put themselves within a box that constrains perspective as well. Tru, I am biased towards Islam as I am a Muslim, but ppl needa accept that they r also biased as within "Westernized" thought. N it's not like I'm not understandin of tha constraints that tha western thought (tho they claim to b advanced) is, since I'm a Muslim raised here in America. So I kno n seen how both sides think.
Skillz
Skillz
Lets see what i learned from Rukas' idiotic posts. First he thinks Islam is out for the destruction of specificaly the "west". and everything considered forbidden in Islam is found in the "west" only. How he came to that conculsion is beyond me. for example, Islam prohibits the following
Certain Music: NOT all music. According to Rukas Islam Prohibits Music from the 'West' only. Unappropriate Asian, Spanish, Arabic music etc is acceptable just 'western Music' is not..
Certain Movies: NOT all movies. According to Rukas Islam prohibits Movies filmed in the "west" only. Japanese, African, Latin movies are OK.
According to Rukas what lead those muslims to strap bombs to themselves was their nations ban on certain types of music and movies. The good old west has done absolutely nothing to the Islamic world that could have lead those suicidal manicas to strike back. it was those damn "anti-music deals'.
Rukas is saying Islam should be held accountable for what the terrorists do. I say the bible and christianity should be held responsible for what the thousands of catholic priests (who were convicted of rape, murder, sexual abuse of little girls and boys} did.
"Traces of encouragement that allows priests to rape lil boys is found in the simplest teachings of the bible" sounds familiar Rukas?
Rukas get over your self buddy, Islam is not out to get the "west". Islam is Not targeting western society only, its message is for all humanity. Its Prohibition of unappropriate music, movies, clothing, sexual activities etc are not directed towards the "west" only. Its for the whole world. Islam is not Creating a "west vs. Islam" when it makes 'anti-music deals'. its music in general not just music in the "west". The one here making it seem like its Islam vs the West is YOU.
You sound just like that idiot Bush himself when he says "They attacked us because they hate western way of life and our freedom"...yeah right..
Certain Music: NOT all music. According to Rukas Islam Prohibits Music from the 'West' only. Unappropriate Asian, Spanish, Arabic music etc is acceptable just 'western Music' is not..
Certain Movies: NOT all movies. According to Rukas Islam prohibits Movies filmed in the "west" only. Japanese, African, Latin movies are OK.
According to Rukas what lead those muslims to strap bombs to themselves was their nations ban on certain types of music and movies. The good old west has done absolutely nothing to the Islamic world that could have lead those suicidal manicas to strike back. it was those damn "anti-music deals'.
Rukas is saying Islam should be held accountable for what the terrorists do. I say the bible and christianity should be held responsible for what the thousands of catholic priests (who were convicted of rape, murder, sexual abuse of little girls and boys} did.
"Traces of encouragement that allows priests to rape lil boys is found in the simplest teachings of the bible" sounds familiar Rukas?
Rukas get over your self buddy, Islam is not out to get the "west". Islam is Not targeting western society only, its message is for all humanity. Its Prohibition of unappropriate music, movies, clothing, sexual activities etc are not directed towards the "west" only. Its for the whole world. Islam is not Creating a "west vs. Islam" when it makes 'anti-music deals'. its music in general not just music in the "west". The one here making it seem like its Islam vs the West is YOU.
You sound just like that idiot Bush himself when he says "They attacked us because they hate western way of life and our freedom"...yeah right..
First of all, I have to say something. When I argue that music is forbidden or better yet, a sin, in Islam, it's because of the content that music encompasses. It's not because it's from the west or east, it's because it devaites from God's teaching. To say the least, take for example any video clip of any artist whether western or eastern, all you see is females dancing basically naked. All you hear is how pimpish or how in-love that artist is. All you gain is just mere seconds of worldly pleasure. To quote Jokerman again, "If you seriously believe in your religion, worldly music has no place in your life. Worldly music carries in it the spirit of the world. The world is the devil, and any music about the world will allow the devil into your spirit."
Remember, this is from a Muslim prospective. You may agree or you may disagree. In the end, your opinion is just mere words. It has no effect whatsoever on how Islam lays down the rules.
Allah's explicitly states what our existance is for. "And I have not created the Jin and man but that they worship Me" Holy Quran 51:57 Each Muslim must believe in this. Does Music add or subtracts from Gods worship? It's then that one must look into the goodness of music. It's not what we desire that should be approved. It's not what we deem bad that should be disapproved. The law is there, we only follow it. It's part of the belief system.
Regarding your questions or claims, I'll, with God's help, try to answer them to my full knowldge. Any mistake I make is my own fault.
If you seriously can't see the difference, I really can't explain it to you. You see, here on the message board, I am able to defend my religion, god, and beliefs. I have the ability to debunk any false accusations regarding my religion. But to say it's the same as music-apostasy is extremely ignorant. The influence music has on individuals is not the same as your influence, or anyone’s for that matter, on this board. So, simply your comparison of the two is illogical.
You have to examine the negative effects of the two. Does your post on a message board effect my beliefs? Do I buy your opinion to hear it over and over again? Do I go and tell people your opinion is great or they should buy it? Simply, you post your opinion; then, another will have the opposite opinion of yours. It’s a debate. Music is not a debate; it’s more a lifestyle for many.
Look at Tupac fans; they take his words as Devine revelation. So even think he’s some sort of a prophet because he talked so much about his death. Some even would liken him to Jesus. And, I bet others would accept it if he claimed to be God.
Indeed it's considered immodest; however, what I came to know is that it's a form of foreplay. I mentioned this many times.
What faults? Islam doesn’t have any faults to take responsibility for them.
Now, you said you, meaning the people teach their kids. Islam says many things are sins. Music happens to be one of the many. As I’ve said, it’s not whether it’s western, it’s what music is. It’s not but worldly enjoyment that deviates from God’s teaching.
Muslims have the Quraan that tells them of such similarities. The Quraan is the only book that talks about Christians, Jews, and Muslims. There is no need for music, movies to show us that.
I never taught that, nor will I. Islam doesn’t teach any of that either. As I said, it’s more fueled by politics then religion. Unfortunately, Islam gets dragged into these situations every so often.
Allah knows best.
Remember, this is from a Muslim prospective. You may agree or you may disagree. In the end, your opinion is just mere words. It has no effect whatsoever on how Islam lays down the rules.
Allah's explicitly states what our existance is for. "And I have not created the Jin and man but that they worship Me" Holy Quran 51:57 Each Muslim must believe in this. Does Music add or subtracts from Gods worship? It's then that one must look into the goodness of music. It's not what we desire that should be approved. It's not what we deem bad that should be disapproved. The law is there, we only follow it. It's part of the belief system.
Regarding your questions or claims, I'll, with God's help, try to answer them to my full knowldge. Any mistake I make is my own fault.
If you seriously can't see the difference, I really can't explain it to you. You see, here on the message board, I am able to defend my religion, god, and beliefs. I have the ability to debunk any false accusations regarding my religion. But to say it's the same as music-apostasy is extremely ignorant. The influence music has on individuals is not the same as your influence, or anyone’s for that matter, on this board. So, simply your comparison of the two is illogical.
You have to examine the negative effects of the two. Does your post on a message board effect my beliefs? Do I buy your opinion to hear it over and over again? Do I go and tell people your opinion is great or they should buy it? Simply, you post your opinion; then, another will have the opposite opinion of yours. It’s a debate. Music is not a debate; it’s more a lifestyle for many.
Look at Tupac fans; they take his words as Devine revelation. So even think he’s some sort of a prophet because he talked so much about his death. Some even would liken him to Jesus. And, I bet others would accept it if he claimed to be God.
Indeed it's considered immodest; however, what I came to know is that it's a form of foreplay. I mentioned this many times.
What faults? Islam doesn’t have any faults to take responsibility for them.
Now, you said you, meaning the people teach their kids. Islam says many things are sins. Music happens to be one of the many. As I’ve said, it’s not whether it’s western, it’s what music is. It’s not but worldly enjoyment that deviates from God’s teaching.
Muslims have the Quraan that tells them of such similarities. The Quraan is the only book that talks about Christians, Jews, and Muslims. There is no need for music, movies to show us that.
I never taught that, nor will I. Islam doesn’t teach any of that either. As I said, it’s more fueled by politics then religion. Unfortunately, Islam gets dragged into these situations every so often.
Allah knows best.
That is complete non-sense, its actually shocking that someone claiming to have muslims friends can have this opinion. What is your basis for this argument?what makes you think that alot of muslims teach their kids that the west evil?
Your remarks are completely unfounded
Islam forbids most music and this is on a global scale not just the west.
There is nothing wrong with the religion. Islam is a beautiful religion. Its just certain people misinterpreting the quran and using it for their own purpose.
The quran actually encourages people to question its teachings, this allows them to be proven wrong and realise the truth in the quran and the benefits Islam brings.
Your remarks are completely unfounded
Islam forbids most music and this is on a global scale not just the west.
There is nothing wrong with the religion. Islam is a beautiful religion. Its just certain people misinterpreting the quran and using it for their own purpose.
The quran actually encourages people to question its teachings, this allows them to be proven wrong and realise the truth in the quran and the benefits Islam brings.
If listening to a song by someone whose views differ from your own affects your beliefs then you obviously don't have much conviction in the first place. I could listen to Christian rock all day, it wouldn't make me question my position as an atheist.
You can't seriously tell me that a hip-hop song, no matter how crude, would have any impact on your religiousness at all. Music is meant primarily to enterain, not as the foundation of your belief system.
How easy it would be for me to start a cult and tell my followers that anything which deviates from my teachings is forbidden. That kind of thing simply reduces the ability of people to think for themselves.
And I'm very sorry if my biased, Westernized environment has brainwashed me into thinking music isn't the root of all evil.
You can't seriously tell me that a hip-hop song, no matter how crude, would have any impact on your religiousness at all. Music is meant primarily to enterain, not as the foundation of your belief system.
How easy it would be for me to start a cult and tell my followers that anything which deviates from my teachings is forbidden. That kind of thing simply reduces the ability of people to think for themselves.
And I'm very sorry if my biased, Westernized environment has brainwashed me into thinking music isn't the root of all evil.
When did sumone say it was tha root of all evil? Music is just looked down upon, possibly a sin, up to ur interpretation in Islam. On sum ppl, music does sway them, it may not sway u but it sways them. Music is just seen as a worldly thing, if u disagree n feel that it isn't, go ahead. But since a religion looks down upon music, u hav to hate on it? I luv music personally, I make music n listen to it. I understand y it's looked down upon in my religion, which is y I try not to let it sway me, n like I said, sins n things r on different levels in Islam - music is a minor thing, so y is everyone blowin it up?
Skillz
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