Non-Urban Music Who was more influental, MJ or Prince?
- Thread starter Dogmatic187
- Start date
- Status
This is a topic I have debated many many times.
Basically after hours of thought I have come to this conclusion.
If we're talking influence, we must look at the current relevant artists of today.
Timbaland and The Neptunes have spent their entire careers ripping off Prince. So has Andre 3000, more recently. ?uestlove and D'Angelo readily admit that Prince is their biggest influence.
There's plenty more.
Musically, Prince is far, far, far more influential. He created a sound. That sound he created (The Minneapolis Sound) was spread even further by super-producers Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, who, let's not forget, were Prince proteges themselves and would have had no door into the industry if it were not for Prince.
Hell, Michael Jackson even hired Jam & Lewis on his HIStory album. So Michael has done music that would not exist, in a manner of speaking, without Prince. Prince's music bears no influence from anything Michael has done.
Here's where Michael's influence on today's artists comes in - not musically. Not at all. It's in the image, and it's in the dancing. You see artists trying to bust MJ-style moves all the time. Trying to rock suits like the 'Smooth Criminal' one. The fedora hat, the loose jackets and wife-beaters.
Doing music videos with synchronised dance routines.
Musically - Prince has been absolutely more influential. To a degree that most don't even realize.
(It's pretty obvious that the Pussycat Dolls were modeled after Prince-created girl group Vanity 6, and that's before you even mention 'Don't Cha', which, musically is a complete rip-off of Vanity 6's 'Nasty Girl')
Need proof of their influence on The Neptunes? Hell, just listen to Britney's 'Slave 4 U'. That song has Prince written all over it.
Want to make a music biopic movie? Pretty hard to do without consulting the biggest one ever.....Purple Rain. Even Eminem's 8 Mile was a rip of Purple Rain.
Chris Brown? Visually, he's a watered-down MJ. Musically, he's a watered-down Prince. And you can say the same for a lot of artists.
MJ's influence is visual more so than musical, and Prince, vice versa.
Basically after hours of thought I have come to this conclusion.
If we're talking influence, we must look at the current relevant artists of today.
Timbaland and The Neptunes have spent their entire careers ripping off Prince. So has Andre 3000, more recently. ?uestlove and D'Angelo readily admit that Prince is their biggest influence.
There's plenty more.
Musically, Prince is far, far, far more influential. He created a sound. That sound he created (The Minneapolis Sound) was spread even further by super-producers Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, who, let's not forget, were Prince proteges themselves and would have had no door into the industry if it were not for Prince.
Hell, Michael Jackson even hired Jam & Lewis on his HIStory album. So Michael has done music that would not exist, in a manner of speaking, without Prince. Prince's music bears no influence from anything Michael has done.
Here's where Michael's influence on today's artists comes in - not musically. Not at all. It's in the image, and it's in the dancing. You see artists trying to bust MJ-style moves all the time. Trying to rock suits like the 'Smooth Criminal' one. The fedora hat, the loose jackets and wife-beaters.
Doing music videos with synchronised dance routines.
Musically - Prince has been absolutely more influential. To a degree that most don't even realize.
(It's pretty obvious that the Pussycat Dolls were modeled after Prince-created girl group Vanity 6, and that's before you even mention 'Don't Cha', which, musically is a complete rip-off of Vanity 6's 'Nasty Girl')
Need proof of their influence on The Neptunes? Hell, just listen to Britney's 'Slave 4 U'. That song has Prince written all over it.
Want to make a music biopic movie? Pretty hard to do without consulting the biggest one ever.....Purple Rain. Even Eminem's 8 Mile was a rip of Purple Rain.
Chris Brown? Visually, he's a watered-down MJ. Musically, he's a watered-down Prince. And you can say the same for a lot of artists.
MJ's influence is visual more so than musical, and Prince, vice versa.
As a musician, its hard to respect MJ more than Prince, because for all intents and purposes, up until Off The Wall/Thriller, MJ was a complete puppet and creation, much like the American Idol stars of today. While that doesn't discount his talent at singing and dancing - his songs, clothes, routines were all created by Motown.
Post-Motown, while Michael of course had input, Quincy Jones, Teddy Riley, other producers and songwriters were largely in control.
Prince? Plays all the instruments, produces all the music, writes, arranges, mixes all the songs, tours regularly, playing every instrument in his live set too....AND does aftershows where him and the band jam until the early hours - MJ hasn't toured for over a decade, and hasn't sung live on a tour for over two decades.
Basically, put Prince in a room with instruments and equipment and he'll give you some hit records, on his own. Put Mike in a room with instruments and equipment and ur gonna get fuck all, maybe a recording of some beatboxing and a hummed bassline at best.
Michael needs a massive team of people to basically do all the real work. Prince needs absolutely no-one.
Post-Motown, while Michael of course had input, Quincy Jones, Teddy Riley, other producers and songwriters were largely in control.
Prince? Plays all the instruments, produces all the music, writes, arranges, mixes all the songs, tours regularly, playing every instrument in his live set too....AND does aftershows where him and the band jam until the early hours - MJ hasn't toured for over a decade, and hasn't sung live on a tour for over two decades.
Basically, put Prince in a room with instruments and equipment and he'll give you some hit records, on his own. Put Mike in a room with instruments and equipment and ur gonna get fuck all, maybe a recording of some beatboxing and a hummed bassline at best.
Michael needs a massive team of people to basically do all the real work. Prince needs absolutely no-one.
Expand?
Sure, but that has nothing to do with who is the more influential, and I think it has to be hands down Michael Jackson because damn near EVERYONE in the 80s who is now making music was a Michael Jackson fan, the whole world loved the guy, and while Prince is the better musician, he never had that same reach and... drum roll please.... INFLUENCE. Which is after all, what this thread is about.
i tend to agree more with Casey on this on.
i think we feel that MJ has more influence because we see alot of artist trying to imitate him which is easy to point out because there is visual evadience to it. in their videos, clothes and dance moves.
whilst i think the musical influence in prince is very strong and more then the MJ wannabes.
whats good is that very Respectable and talented artists are influenced by prince. They have more staying power in the music.
i think we feel that MJ has more influence because we see alot of artist trying to imitate him which is easy to point out because there is visual evadience to it. in their videos, clothes and dance moves.
whilst i think the musical influence in prince is very strong and more then the MJ wannabes.
whats good is that very Respectable and talented artists are influenced by prince. They have more staying power in the music.
I think people under estimate what MJ did for music. Michael Jackson is in my opinion single handily responsible for the whole pop/R&B genre. Without him we wouldnt have artists like Chris Brown, Akon, Justin Timberlake, Ne-Yo, Mario, etc etc.
Michael Jackson made what was always deemed as "black music" and style popular to EVERYONE with his Thriller album. Thriller took that style of music from R&B to pop.
Casey is not wrong with what he is saying, but the problem is he is answering the wrong question. Casey is arguing that Prince is the better MUSICIAN, and he is, hands down. But, Michael Jackson was more of an influence because Prince was always more "underground," for lack of a better word.
Would we have all these R&B artists we do today without Michael Jackson? I doubt it. Would they still be here without Prince? Sure.
Michael Jackson made what was always deemed as "black music" and style popular to EVERYONE with his Thriller album. Thriller took that style of music from R&B to pop.
Casey is not wrong with what he is saying, but the problem is he is answering the wrong question. Casey is arguing that Prince is the better MUSICIAN, and he is, hands down. But, Michael Jackson was more of an influence because Prince was always more "underground," for lack of a better word.
Would we have all these R&B artists we do today without Michael Jackson? I doubt it. Would they still be here without Prince? Sure.
I can't agree with you there Rukas. EVERY single artist you mentioned there owes a bigger musical debt to Prince than they do to Michael. Every last one.
Sure, they are all trying to look and dance like Michael. But if we're talking about the music, it's Prince through and through. Nobody ever mixed soul and r&b with electronic sounds before Prince, not even Michael. Compare Thriller with 1999 (both released the same year) and then compare Bad with Sign O' The Times (again, released the same year). Prince was always musically light years ahead of Michael, and that's evident in the sounds of today, all the trails point back to Prince, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis (who were Prince proteges), and Teddy Riley (who's entire style came from Jam & Lewis, and their style came from Prince). When people like Justin Timberlake are going as far as hiring ex-New Power Generation band members in their quest to sound like Prince....well, that says it all.
Every musician on the planet in the 80's was trying to sound like Prince - even Michael. I read an interview recently where the keyboardist who played on Thriller (the title track) recalled a day when Quincy Jones walked in, handed him a copy of Prince's 1999 album and told him that he wanted the synths to sound like that. Not to mention, "Dirty Diana" is quite blatantly Michael attempt to imitate Prince's "Darling Nikki"........and I can go on.
?uestlove once said that Prince is "your favorite musicians favorite musician" and that's damn true. Hell, most of us are here because of Tupac - and Pac's absolute favorite artist was Prince too - I had long ass conversations with both Johnny J and QD3 about how big of a fan Pac was, since both of them had flipped Prince grooves for Pac songs (Johnny flipped 777-9311 for Whatz Ya Phone #, QD flipped Do Me Baby for 2 Live & Die in LA)
I'm not denying MJ his due props - hell, I was an obsessive MJ fan for a good decade before I was really familiar with Prince's work (I literally watched Moonwalker every single day from the age of 6 to the age of 13......I even went to a MJ fan party once, lmao).
But Prince's musical stamp is all over modern black music - naturally, since he did more to define it than arguably anyone else - the only others on that level are Chuck Berry, James Brown and Stevie Wonder.
MJ didn't define anything musically - he defined what it is to be a global superstar. Sadly, musically he's been mostly following trends for the last 20 years - and by the time he jumps on 'em, they're dated. (HIStory is the exception - that's a fucking beast of an album, except for a few schmaltzy ballads).
MJ's influence is style, hype, image and marketing over actual substance, and always has been.
Sure, they are all trying to look and dance like Michael. But if we're talking about the music, it's Prince through and through. Nobody ever mixed soul and r&b with electronic sounds before Prince, not even Michael. Compare Thriller with 1999 (both released the same year) and then compare Bad with Sign O' The Times (again, released the same year). Prince was always musically light years ahead of Michael, and that's evident in the sounds of today, all the trails point back to Prince, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis (who were Prince proteges), and Teddy Riley (who's entire style came from Jam & Lewis, and their style came from Prince). When people like Justin Timberlake are going as far as hiring ex-New Power Generation band members in their quest to sound like Prince....well, that says it all.
Every musician on the planet in the 80's was trying to sound like Prince - even Michael. I read an interview recently where the keyboardist who played on Thriller (the title track) recalled a day when Quincy Jones walked in, handed him a copy of Prince's 1999 album and told him that he wanted the synths to sound like that. Not to mention, "Dirty Diana" is quite blatantly Michael attempt to imitate Prince's "Darling Nikki"........and I can go on.
?uestlove once said that Prince is "your favorite musicians favorite musician" and that's damn true. Hell, most of us are here because of Tupac - and Pac's absolute favorite artist was Prince too - I had long ass conversations with both Johnny J and QD3 about how big of a fan Pac was, since both of them had flipped Prince grooves for Pac songs (Johnny flipped 777-9311 for Whatz Ya Phone #, QD flipped Do Me Baby for 2 Live & Die in LA)
I'm not denying MJ his due props - hell, I was an obsessive MJ fan for a good decade before I was really familiar with Prince's work (I literally watched Moonwalker every single day from the age of 6 to the age of 13......I even went to a MJ fan party once, lmao).
But Prince's musical stamp is all over modern black music - naturally, since he did more to define it than arguably anyone else - the only others on that level are Chuck Berry, James Brown and Stevie Wonder.
MJ didn't define anything musically - he defined what it is to be a global superstar. Sadly, musically he's been mostly following trends for the last 20 years - and by the time he jumps on 'em, they're dated. (HIStory is the exception - that's a fucking beast of an album, except for a few schmaltzy ballads).
MJ's influence is style, hype, image and marketing over actual substance, and always has been.
Im not denying any of what you said, at least the things that I am aware of obviously I dont have as extensive a mental database of "facts" as you do, but, I still think Michael had the bigger impact, the bigger reach, and thus the bigger influence.
And come on, MJ is more than just hype, he is a vocal genius, and a great song writer too. Prince is the better musician, but I still think Michael was more influential because he had the bigger reach. There were kids in Soviet countries at the time Moonwalking and trying to be Michael that didnt even know who Prince was at the time or just didnt like him as much, I know, I was one of them.
Michael Jackson influenced the whole world, from musicians to comedians to normal every day people.
And Im sorry, but Justin, especially his first album, is all MJ to me.
Michael Jackson defined what it was to be a r&b/pop star and has influenced everyone that came after him, he re-defined the genre.
- Status
Donate
Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.
Members online
No members online now.