Rukas exposed; beef related.
- Thread starter Caesar
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Because I am a vegetarian for many reasons, including:
A) Health reasons
B) Moral reasons.
Let me ask you this.
Would you carry a dead bird in your pocket?
No?
Then why carry one in your stomach?
Lol. How do you propose we do that? Follow animals around until they die of old age? Or eat animals that died from a disease? Because as we all know that would be very healthy.
Also, what would be the point? I'd have no moral qualms eating something that was already dead but why would I?
Health reasons: If you eat meat or dont, it doesnt make a difference. And no, dont try to explain why its not the same, weve been there. Its obvious its not bad for anyone to eat meat (if you dont eat 10kg a day).
Moral reasons: Thats what has been mentioned so far. You dont want to contribute to the killing of animals bla bla. Deriving from this "Moral attitude" i asked my question....your response doesnt answer my question in a way that makes not eating meat seem to be "right" or logic, or whatever.
I wouldnt carry the bird in my pocket because it doesnt make any sense. Eating bird makes sense though. Simple answer.
Is your problem with the actual killing part of animals...or that they have to suffer because the can feel and so on?
Why would you? Because it fills your stomach aka you aint hungry no more.
Both basically.
But there are exceptions for killing animals. If killing an animal means you won't die, then it's morally justified. But when you simply have to go to another section of the super market...
EDIT: I've read that people with certain diseases require meat to survive so for them to eat meat is perfectly fine... as long as they only eat what's necessary and no more.
Lets say mankind is able to change the dna or whatever, so animals (cows, etc) wont get that old and die a natural way by the age of whatever...so we wouldnt have to kill them anymore, they just die..without suffering. Like old people, when they die while they are sleeping (ok, you get what i mean).
Would that be ok?
Would that be ok?
It is bad to eat it. For lots of people. I'm not saying everyone. Everybody's body is different. I feel healthier since I stopped eating meat. So does everybody I know that is vegetarian. I can't speak for other people. I know how I feel. Rukas said he feels the same.
Also, the most intelligent people I know are ALL vegetarian. The stupidest people I know all eat meat. Explain that.
Jokerman has also previously provided shitloads of proof from well respected medical websites that conclusively show that eating meat IS bad for you.
As for your question......my moral reasons extend beyond the killing of animals. I don't want to eat anything that has been alive. Why would I? You are what you eat, and I don't want animal enzymes, proteins or cells inside me. Not for me.
Like Chronny said......if an animal wasn't murdered, it probably died of disease, so no thanks, that shit's disgusting.
It makes about as much sense to carry it in your pocket as it does to carry it in your stomach.
No it would not. I suggest you go read up on just what happens to a body when it dies. Then go and eat your meat after reading that.
Actually i didnt really read the crap he posted. Well, it probably wasnt crap but eating meat has no negative affect on my health at all. Not now, and not in 50 years. There are a shitload of people out there who eat meat their whole life and it didnt affect them in any way.
You dont really see the difference?
You claim they are intelligent. Maybe thats the explanation. Maybe something different.
I eat meat because ultimately I choose not to care about whatever factors might could impose an attitude change. I am contempt, and as with every other human being in this world, I struggle to make it through the day while making every end meet. I can't possibly care for every single thing in the amount that it deserves, while maintaining a job and doing it the way my executive expects me to. Meat is an important part of all the meals that are my favorites, and I rely on things that make me happy when I have to face things that make me unhappy. Good food makes me happy.
If someone made me aware of things like this from the day I was born and it was reasonable to expect of me not to eat meat, I wouldn't complain, but I've eaten meat all my life. Imo it is very UNreasonable to expect me to change my whole diet to something less satisfactory due to things I don't really consider important. Cattle are bred to be killed. If they weren't killed, they wouldn't be bred in the first place, and the amount of cattle living freely in the world without a supermarket stand waiting for them wouldn't be impacted at all. Through my speculation I guess it comes down to the moral question surrounding the sufferings the animal experiences in its life (and death). I don't condone the killing of anything that lives, animals are more innocent than people, but in the end I care more about myself than somebody/thing else.
I'll care a little extra about my CO2 release and make up for it there.
If someone made me aware of things like this from the day I was born and it was reasonable to expect of me not to eat meat, I wouldn't complain, but I've eaten meat all my life. Imo it is very UNreasonable to expect me to change my whole diet to something less satisfactory due to things I don't really consider important. Cattle are bred to be killed. If they weren't killed, they wouldn't be bred in the first place, and the amount of cattle living freely in the world without a supermarket stand waiting for them wouldn't be impacted at all. Through my speculation I guess it comes down to the moral question surrounding the sufferings the animal experiences in its life (and death). I don't condone the killing of anything that lives, animals are more innocent than people, but in the end I care more about myself than somebody/thing else.
I'll care a little extra about my CO2 release and make up for it there.
so if Albert Einstein was a meat eater (which he probably was, i don't know) would that make him stupid? intelligence has nothing to do with it. maybe the fact that YOU think vegetarians are smart and meat eaters are stupid has biased you when it comes to judging intelligence.
no actually eating an overabundance of meat is bad for you, particularily red meat. a balanced diet including meats, fruits and vegetables, grains and dairy is perfectly healthy and has proven to be so by doctors and dieticians. if you choose not to believe them then that's your perrogative, but the information is out there, and pretending it isn't true doesn't make it so.Casey Rain said:
well Ruk did a pretty good job of breaking down the difference between animal life and plant life, but a plant is still alive, regardless of whether it has feelings or can think or sense pain or whatever. therefore every time you eat a fruit or vegetable you are eating something that has been alive. so there goes that argument.Casey Rain said:
No. It would be more humane than killing them directly (unless you shoot a bullet through their brains) but the end result is the same, you're negatively influencing their lives and causing their premature death. It's a more cowardice way as well, you're just pretending that they died 'naturally' but there's nothing natural about altering DNA.
I generally don't agree with interfering with nature but in some cases it might be acceptable. For example you can domesticate herbivores without truly changing their normal way of life. You can get milk, wool etc. without harming them and you're giving them something back: protection from predators as well as medical attention when needed.
how do you know it didn't affect them in any way? I bet you half of them died from heart attacks, heart disease etc.
OK, well I'm not pulling up PETA's 'Sexiest Vegetarians 2007' list, mainly because my cousin is on it so that would be biased.
So let's pull up the same list from back in 2004. I'll highlight the musicians on this list since that's who most people will know the best on this forum, being as it's a music forum.
Aimee Teegarden
Alicia Silverstone
Alison Lohman
Alyssa Milano
Amber Benson
Angela Bassett
Bryce Dallas Howard
Carré Otis
Carrie Underwood
Charlotte Ross
Chelsea Clinton
Chely Wright
Chrissie Hynde
Christie Brinkley
Chynna Phillips
Daniele Gaither
Daphne Zuniga
Daryl Hannah
Elizabeth Rease
Ember Swift
Emily Deschanel
Emmy Rossum
Emmylou Harris
Erykah Badu
Fiona Apple
Grace Slick
India.Arie
Jacklyn Lick
Jennie Garth
Joan Jett
Johanna Fateman
Jorja Fox
Joy Bryant
Kim Basinger
Kristen Bell
Lauren Bush
Linda Blair
Lindsay Wagner
Lisa Edelstein
Lori Petty
Maggie Q
Marilu Henner
Mary Tyler Moore
Monica Potter
Natalie Portman
Nellie McKay
Pamela Anderson
Persia White
Pink
Princess Superstar
Rachael Leigh Cook
Rachel Miner
Renee Goldsberry
Serenity
Shannon Elizabeth
Shiri Appleby
Summer Phoenix
T’Keyah “Crystal” Keymáh
Tatum O’Neal
Thora Birch
Traci Bingham
Vanessa A. Williams
Vanessa Ferlito
Wendie Malick
Abbie Cornish
Alicia Mayer
Annie Lennox
Barbie Xu
Brigitte Bardot
Chin Chin Gutierez
Elle Macpherson
Emily Barclay
Heather Mills
Hema Malini
Isabel Roces
Jackie O
Jane Siberry
Joanna Lumley
Joss Stone
k.d. lang
Kylie Bax
Laura Flores
Mahima Chaudhry
Missy Higgins
Naomi Watts
Natalia Streignard
Natalie Imbruglia
Nina Hagen
Peaches Geldof
Pippa Black
Radha Mitchell
Raya Mananquil
Sadie Frost
Shalom Harlow
Shania Twain
Sheryl Lee
Sophie Monk
Stella McCartney
Tatjana Patitz
Veruschka
Yasmien Kurdi
Alec Baldwin
Alexander Greenwald
Andre 3000
Anthonly Peeler
Ben Kenney
Billy Baldwin
Billy Martin
Bob Barker
Brandon Brooks
Brian Bell
Carl Lewis
Casey Affleck
Casey Kasem
Common
Corey Feldman
Damian Marley
Dan Abrams
Dave Meyers
David Duchovny
Dennis Kucinich
Dick Gregory
Ed Begley Jr.
Ed Templeton
Eddie Vedder
Eric Stoltz
Esai Morales
Forest Whitaker
G. Gordon Liddy
Gary Anthony Williams
Grant Aleksander
Greg Cipes
GZA
Ian MacKaye
James Cromwell
Jared Leto
Jeph Howard
Jeru the Damaja
Joaquin Phoenix
John C. Reilly
John Feldmann
Jonathan Safran Foer
Jonathan Taylor Thomas
Justin Theroux
K-os
Keenen Ivory Wayans
Kenny Loggins
Kevin Eubanks
Kevin Nealon
Kristoff St. John
KRS-One
Laban Pheidias
Leonard Nimoy
Little Richard
M-1
Masta Killa
Michael Ausiello
Michael Bolton
Michael Franti
Mickey Madden
Mike Dirnt
Mike White
Milo Ventimiglia
Moby
Mos Def
Nick Zinner
Noah Wyle
Orlando Jones
Perry Farrell
Peter Dinklage
Prince
Prodigy
Q-Tip
Raja Bell
Richard Linklater
Rick Rubin
Ricky Williams
Rikki Rockett
Rivers Cuomo
Rob Zombie
Ruben Studdard
Russell Simmons
RZA
Salim Stoudamire
Scott Bourne
Sean Astin
Stephen Marley
Stic.man
Tobey Maguire
Todd Oldham
Tony La Russa
Will Estes
Woody Harrelson
Ziggy Marley
Alan Davies
Amitabh Bachchan
Andrew G
Billy Idol
Bryan Adams
César López “Vampiro”
Chris Martin
Chris Ross
Corey Wills
Daniel Johns
Enrique Bunbury
Ian McKellen
Ilan Chester
J.D. Fortune
Jacky Cheung
John Butler
John Cleese
Juan Gabriel
Larry Mullen Jr.
Martin Kemp
Martin Shaw
Morrissey
Nick Rhodes
Paul McCartney
Phil Collen
Raymond Bagatsing
Rick Allen
Russell Brand
Serj Tankian
Steve Jocz
Thom Yorke
Xavier Rudd
I may have missed a few musicians. But all of those are known to be HIGHLY intelligent people.
Now, am I going to take the word of some random German kid, or am I going to be in the company of respected successful intellectuals like RZA, Prince, Common, Damian Marley, Serj Tankian, Morrissey, Paul McCartney, Shania Twain, Rick Rubin, Russell Simmons.............
so... the reason you're a vegetarian is because a bunch of musicians are? and what makes the people on this list "highly intelligent?" because they are successful musicians? because they can produce great music? i fail to see the point of this list, since there are plenty of people with low intelligence levels who also are vegetarians. i bet if i looked for it i can find a list of people who eat meat who are highly intelligent as well. so again i ask, what does intelligence have to do with it?
I just wanna say in order for you to get milk a calf must be born EVERY year. What do we do with all those cows?
Are you actually serious?
Would I be justified in killing someone's child just because I created my own? That's your equation right there. I create life and I take away life.
Besides that it's not a simple 1+1=2 equation. How do you measure the 'numerical' value of life and the value of death? I wouldn't call a horrible life worth living either.
Also we don't create life, unless you passed a baby cow last time you took a shit.
It's pure arrogance to assume you have the authority to decide on taking a life.
I don't know. You'd have to work out a way that doesn't have a negative effect on their lives and if you can't, too bad, there are alternatives. Humans aren't even supposed to drink milk, we're naturally lactose intolerant. We're supposed to drink milk as infants and that's it, otherwise your breasts would be lactating 24/7. Give an eskimo a pint of milk and he'll shit his pants. Europeans built up a tolerance throughout the ages, which is why you'll see more black people that are lactose intolerant.
I actually don't care bc I hate milk anyway...just wanted to aggravate someone with that question. Also, women can lactate 24/7...as long as the kid is drinking she will continue to produce it.
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