Do you really have that much faith in people, that you'd legalize every drug, SOFI? You seem like an unsalvageable liberal here. There are very, very good reasons why weed is illegal--some of which were enumerated by Coonie--and why other drugs that aren't should be too.
What's going on in the world according to FlipMo & Friends.
- Thread starter Flipmo
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
apply that to my view and sam harris' quote.
anyway, semantics. we're gettin hung up on political vs. whatever. I'm thinking in political terms.
apply that to my view and sam harris' quote.
anyway, semantics. we're gettin hung up on political vs. whatever. I'm thinking in political terms.
Define "drug offenses."
Transporting fishscale across borders or some high school kid with a bud in a baggie in his shoe?
Here's a solution for all people in prison and the cost to keep them there. Make them work like slaves. Make them earn their keep. The solution to the cost of maintaining a prison shouldn't be to make some things no longer crimes. Otherwise we should make murder legal. Not everyone does it. When it does happen, sure, someone loses their life, but think of how many people are in there for being responsible for someone's death?
Again, we feel bad for addicts and give them a free pass. Yes. Please do. But don't make others pay for it when they get caught. You wanna snort coke from a hooker's ass? Go for it. If you die, I don't want to hear about you in the 10 o'clock news. You were a dipshit and you got caught doing dipshitty things.
Your priority is to make drugs legal or lower the prison population? Because I can think of an easy solution. Firing squad for those that have been in prison for more than 30 years. Now there's more space.
My philosophy on this: if you choose to do something illegal and you don't get caught, good for you. You live another day. If you knowingly do something and get caught, I have no sympathy. Take em out like Old Yeller too.
Transporting fishscale across borders or some high school kid with a bud in a baggie in his shoe?
Here's a solution for all people in prison and the cost to keep them there. Make them work like slaves. Make them earn their keep. The solution to the cost of maintaining a prison shouldn't be to make some things no longer crimes. Otherwise we should make murder legal. Not everyone does it. When it does happen, sure, someone loses their life, but think of how many people are in there for being responsible for someone's death?
Again, we feel bad for addicts and give them a free pass. Yes. Please do. But don't make others pay for it when they get caught. You wanna snort coke from a hooker's ass? Go for it. If you die, I don't want to hear about you in the 10 o'clock news. You were a dipshit and you got caught doing dipshitty things.
Your priority is to make drugs legal or lower the prison population? Because I can think of an easy solution. Firing squad for those that have been in prison for more than 30 years. Now there's more space.
My philosophy on this: if you choose to do something illegal and you don't get caught, good for you. You live another day. If you knowingly do something and get caught, I have no sympathy. Take em out like Old Yeller too.
Please tell me you're not a "libertarian" based on the parameters set by Wikipedia.
I don't need a link to explain what I meant.
By calling you a liberal, I meant to say that you're being a HUGE pussy. "Oh, government can't tell me what to do with my own consciousness, it's MY choice, MAN. I'm gonna tie my hemp necklace around my neck and fuck shit up!" While this ridiculous worldview may apply to libertarians too, that doesn't make it legitimate. In fact, the U.S. government has a very good record of regulating its people's health (at least when tobacco companies aren't involved.) The reason you're wrong isn't political, sentimental, or "whatever." It's existential. You're wrong because you're wrong. Period. If a narcotic (or anything else) in its most popular form causes cancer, then that thing should be against the law.
Now I will call you a libertarian. You sound like a fucking Tea Partier.
I don't want to let government dictate my behavior, but I don't mind letting it protect me.
By calling you a liberal, I meant to say that you're being a HUGE pussy. "Oh, government can't tell me what to do with my own consciousness, it's MY choice, MAN. I'm gonna tie my hemp necklace around my neck and fuck shit up!" While this ridiculous worldview may apply to libertarians too, that doesn't make it legitimate. In fact, the U.S. government has a very good record of regulating its people's health (at least when tobacco companies aren't involved.) The reason you're wrong isn't political, sentimental, or "whatever." It's existential. You're wrong because you're wrong. Period. If a narcotic (or anything else) in its most popular form causes cancer, then that thing should be against the law.
Now I will call you a libertarian. You sound like a fucking Tea Partier.
I don't want to let government dictate my behavior, but I don't mind letting it protect me.
The 50% statistic came from the Bureau of Prisons. The baggie in his shoe part you can get a sense of in the infographic. It doesn't matter, though. My position is unchanged.
"If you're black in the 50s and you drink from the white man's fountain and get caught, I have no sympathy, because you can't drink from the white man's fountain because the white man said so."
That's what you're saying right there.
Nope. I disagree with a bunch, especially the part about non-governmental interference in free markets. I believe in regulation, smart regulation. But that's beside the point. The point is, I agree on maximizing individual liberty in regards to recreational drug use.
^^ There is always an argument made for tobacco/nicotine and alcohol. But I feel like these have been around for such a long time, they have either shaped or had no effect on our society today. Opium fucked up China when the British brought it there. That's one notorious example I know of. The rest of the drugs, I have seen others with my own eyes. Weed, pills, acid, shrooms, all that shit. I don't care if they're "minor, gateway" drugs. They are still drugs. There will always be people that stand at the gates that separate "legal" from "illegal." You move that border over a little bit to make marijuana legal, there will be "gate-rattlers" that will call for the legalization of the next most used recreational drugs in heroin, cocaine, and ecstasy.
What do we do then? Draw the line there? Who are you to draw the line until marijuana? Or do you advocate extending it to ecstasy and beyond?
What I'm comparing it to is gay rights and the right to get married. There was such an opposition to it all for so long and now finally the levee has broke and states are legalizing it. Good. The new frontier after gay and lesbian marriage is the rights of transexuals. We never really talked about that before, now did we? Now it's here and soon to be in our face. Laws protecting transexuals. There's going to be another after that, I'm sure. But see, these are human rights. There are trannies getting beat up for being trannies and gays getting beat up for the same thing. Antagonized by society for basic human rights.
The war on drugs is something else. There is no right to expose the public to legalizing it.
If it's the government we're mad at, then that's something else. I'm not political at all. It is the equivalent of watching people debate religion, for me. But if the government, the FDA, didn't regulate shit, we'd have people running around with tardive dyskinesia with no compensation. They took the risk in taking that unregulated drug, they should pay the price for it. Right?
What do we do then? Draw the line there? Who are you to draw the line until marijuana? Or do you advocate extending it to ecstasy and beyond?
What I'm comparing it to is gay rights and the right to get married. There was such an opposition to it all for so long and now finally the levee has broke and states are legalizing it. Good. The new frontier after gay and lesbian marriage is the rights of transexuals. We never really talked about that before, now did we? Now it's here and soon to be in our face. Laws protecting transexuals. There's going to be another after that, I'm sure. But see, these are human rights. There are trannies getting beat up for being trannies and gays getting beat up for the same thing. Antagonized by society for basic human rights.
The war on drugs is something else. There is no right to expose the public to legalizing it.
If it's the government we're mad at, then that's something else. I'm not political at all. It is the equivalent of watching people debate religion, for me. But if the government, the FDA, didn't regulate shit, we'd have people running around with tardive dyskinesia with no compensation. They took the risk in taking that unregulated drug, they should pay the price for it. Right?
Cue 8 mile, Lotto battle, " I ain't hear a word you said, 'hipidy hooblah!'."
Manufacture and use doesn't stop with drugs being illegal. I don't know why people think when something is illegal, that's the end, it disappears, as it if erased from planet Earth. It doesn't. Not much changes.
Yeah, in some instances, sure, I'm with you MAAAAN. I'd like to know the water I drink is safe and that the curve on the freeway is safe to navigate. But I'd like to be able to obtain and use drugs for recreational use without fear of prosecution.
I advocate for legalizing cocaine, ecstasy, meth, you name it.
Oh, I believe in regulating drugs. I would really like cocaine to be legal so that there's a government agency ensuring (regulating) that there's no levamisole in my 8ball.
What you're saying is that you're scared that once the "illegal" sign is dropped, it's going to be a free for all. Nicotine is legal but we're still educated on the dangers of it and make our own conscious decision to consume it. Why not do the same with cocaine, for example?
I'm saying no one drinks from the water fountain because it contains something that could potentially ruin a life and society because what comes out of it is not water, but a substance that causes dependency. When there are alternatives to the medicinal use of a drug, those should be used and worked on to improve, rather than looking at something that has detrimental side effects, yet does the same thing. You can't help but question the motives of those that use marijuana, unprescribed, saying they need it for medical reasons. Cancer patient needing aid in getting an appetite or to ease the pain after chemo, sure, smoke one, but only after all other means have been exhausted.
Otherwise, millions of people go through chemo in the US. But there's a reason a million joints aren't rolled in the name of chemo. There's a reason most doctors aren't rising up and speaking out against these "lies" the government is feeding regarding marijuana and its pros and cons. Because once you learn the physiology of the body and the pharmacology of it all, it probably doesn't do shit all in the long run for the patient and his well being.
Sure, there's a reason. It's called Big Pharma paying for his house on Nantucket.
Once you learn the physiology of the body, and the pharmacology of it all, PRESCRIPTION DRUGS don't do shit at all in the long run for the patient and his well-being. Try taking vicodin for a year straight and see how you'll function. But of course, the doctor's not going to prescribe it to you for a year. That's not the point. Point is, they're still prescribed for however long.
...
I don't think anyone who can read believes that. It's the principle they're after, the knowledge that their government is doing what it can to keep this toxic waste, this mind-killing garbage, out of its citizens' hands.
Wildly hypocritical.
When was nicotine and alcohol ever illegal? The Prohibition, sure, but that was thousands of years after alcohol had been introduced.
When was cocaine ever legal? Or ecstasy? It's hard to go back on tobacco and alcohol because they are almost part of our culture. Also, more people would be pissed if nicotine or alcohol was banned. For most adults living productive, meaningful lives, marijuana was shit they did in high school or college. It was a phase.
For those that continue to do it at 30+ years old, are either Forever Alones and/or still living as if they're 20 again, with no responsibilities. And I say "fuck them."
When was cocaine ever legal? Or ecstasy? It's hard to go back on tobacco and alcohol because they are almost part of our culture. Also, more people would be pissed if nicotine or alcohol was banned. For most adults living productive, meaningful lives, marijuana was shit they did in high school or college. It was a phase.
For those that continue to do it at 30+ years old, are either Forever Alones and/or still living as if they're 20 again, with no responsibilities. And I say "fuck them."
Who is "they"? There's a good amount of people who agree with me so you might have to be a bit more specific.
Wildly hypocritical.[/quote]
HAHAH I knew you'd say that. No, I am not. I'm not an anarchist, silly. Surely a man of your intellectual capacity can see the difference.
Do you think I was somehow referring to the people who agreed with you, or did you just want to say a snarky thing?
Don't patronize me.
Show me someone who lost their house, family, and job because of Vicodin.
And no shit Vicodin isn't a daily multivitamin you take. You'd rather smoke a blunt than take a vicodin? Good luck after doing that after oral surgery. Good luck having your lungs take the toll so other parts of your body can heal.
We already have an issue with people drinking and driving. Want someone on ecstasy driving? Sure, it won't be legal to do so, but don't you think making it legal will give people more confidence to try the drug and what happens after that, who knows? Car, fight, accident in some other way? Putting others at risk?
When people get DUIs, it can ruin their lives. So what we should do is allow ecstasy, cocaine, etc., to be treated like alcohol, in that it should be legal to consume, but not to drive while under the influence of? If they get a DUI-equivalent with drugs, then their lives should be "ruined," like in a DUI, which could mean they got the DUI after running into an innocent, on-coming car? Best to let the fuck-ass rot in jail to begin with, then, because he fits my description of a "dumb fuck."
The only people I personally know that are all for the legalization of marijuana (or drugs in general), still live with their parents after high school, work jobs that they complain about on Facebook, and spend most of their time indulging themselves in drugs and alcohol. I realize I can not extrapolate such a small sample space and apply it to the general public, but this is the scene from which I gain my perspective and it seems to me a good number of people want it legalized so they will no longer be ostracized for their addiction. They don't give a shit about economic impact (whatever it may be, beneficial or detrimental) and they don't care about the implications for non-users. Because this isn't a gay adopting a baby (something that is of no one's business other than those whom the gay chooses to share it with); this is "if I walk outside, will my neighbor be smoking on his lawn, in front of my kids, and flooding my property with the smell. Will he grow? Will he sell? Will I have sketchballs running around my neighborhood because he owes them money? Not all users are that deep in the business, but again, it's probably not worth risking and finding out. Leave that poverty, rap-music bullshit in the cities and underground.
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