Fatal Oslo bombing rocks government HQ

[Jokerman]

Weren't all or most of the teens he killed Muslim? So, yeah, another low for religion. Or, actually, just business as usual.

This Maniac: "It was horrible but it had to be done." (Like "Boy, did I have it rough.")
Police: "Ok, you're free to go."

 

[Casey]

I really hope all those oversensitive Muslims who keep thinking everyone is picking on them, when we condemn extremism in all religions, will now shut the fuck up and stop pretending we all have some specific anti-Islam agenda just because we aren't afraid to call them out on their bullshit.

 

[dilla]

Muslims will continue to be upset at the discrimination. But non-Muslims are only doing what is natural and that is avoiding and discriminating against something or a group of people that have been notorious for doing shit like this.

Well-to-do Muslims are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it definitely sucks. But I don't think the solution to their problem is to go on the defense against non-Muslims to try and prove to them or convince others that Islam isn't that bad.

But also, Muslims have been doing this for centuries. Not to others, but to other Muslims as well. It's a shitty situation a few extremists have put the rest of the world into. One side is being labeled as a terrorist and the other being labeled as racists and/or bigots.

 

[roaches]

I really hope all those oversensitive Muslims who keep thinking everyone is picking on them, when we condemn extremism in all religions, will now shut the fuck up and stop pretending we all have some specific anti-Islam agenda just because we aren't afraid to call them out on their bullshit.

http://www.salon.com/news/terrorism/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/23/nyt

 

[Casey]

/\ point? Clearly, people will automatically make assumptions based upon what they know. The majority of large terrorist attacks that people hear about, in large cities, in the western world, are coming from Islamic fundamentalists. You can't fault people for assuming in the initial stages of an attack before the facts come out, that's obviously going to happen.

Also, my point still stands. Fuck this Norwegian right wing terrorist dude. I will condemn religion for it the same way I would if it was an Islamic attack. So, the oversensitive Muslims who think that some people (anti-theists) have a SPECIFIC anti-Islam agenda are still wrong, just as they've always been.

 

[vg4030]

http://www.salon.com/news/terrorism/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/23/nyt

Great article

 

[Sebastian]

/\ point? Clearly, people will automatically make assumptions based upon what they know. The majority of large terrorist attacks that people hear about, in large cities, in the western world, are coming from Islamic fundamentalists. You can't fault people for assuming in the initial stages of an attack before the facts come out, that's obviously going to happen.

Its one thing to assume something and to come up with an idea in your head (based on past events, for example). Its a different thing to go and voice it towards other people. And its an even bigger difference to go and make that kind of hair-raising assumptions/accusations in a newspaper article.

No one should defend that kind of behaviour. No one. Because its unjustifiable.

 

[Casey]

Its one thing to assume something and to come up with an idea in your head (based on past events, for example). Its a different thing to go and voice it towards other people. And its an even bigger difference to go and make that kind of hair-raising assumptions/accusations in a newspaper article.

No one should defend that kind of behaviour. No one. Because its unjustifiable.

Yeah, agreed. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying at this time it's pretty much an inevitability. And not necessarily because people have an agenda.

 

[Pittsey]

I don't get this fear of Muslim extremism. Since 9/11 how many acts of terror have actually been carried out against the Western World. In London there has been 1. In terms of numbers and damage this is nothing compared to the onslaught of terrorism from the IRA and it's splinter groups in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

See list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London - Notice the 3 lines about Islamic terror.

I sometimes think that the media and our governments have an agenda when their constant scaremongering. Religion doesn't control us any more, so maybe we can be controlled by a fear of evil Muslim terrorists on every corner.

I also don't remember too much support from America when London was getting bombed almost weekly. Unless you count the "Irish" Americans who helped fund "the cause".

Not that those events were harsh compared to some other countries who find every day they are living in a war zone, but our media outlets barely report on those issues.

And while I agree with the article Roaches posted on principle, it is also unhealthy to ignore the hate that many Mulsims possess for the western world. Even those that live within their "enemies" cities. Although hate doesn't always end in killing... I hate a lot of people, I have yet to kill any of them.

 

[Bobby Sands]

ooh aah, up the RA

 

[vg4030]

Fuck the RA and all the other terrorist scum

 

[Bobby Sands]

fuck them all is right

 

[Pittsey]

Agreed. But how can you fight the "machine", in a fair and just way?

Killing innocent people is obviously not fair. And neither are many of the ways outlawed by the Geneva convention. But it happens.

 

[dilla]

I don't get this fear of Muslim extremism. Since 9/11 how many acts of terror have actually been carried out against the Western World. In London there has been 1. In terms of numbers and damage this is nothing compared to the onslaught of terrorism from the IRA and it's splinter groups in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

See list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London - Notice the 3 lines about Islamic terror.

I sometimes think that the media and our governments have an agenda when their constant scaremongering. Religion doesn't control us any more, so maybe we can be controlled by a fear of evil Muslim terrorists on every corner.

I also don't remember too much support from America when London was getting bombed almost weekly. Unless you count the "Irish" Americans who helped fund "the cause".

Not that those events were harsh compared to some other countries who find every day they are living in a war zone, but our media outlets barely report on those issues.

And while I agree with the article Roaches posted on principle, it is also unhealthy to ignore the hate that many Mulsims possess for the western world. Even those that live within their "enemies" cities. Although hate doesn't always end in killing... I hate a lot of people, I have yet to kill any of them.

Does Spain count as the West? They were bombed in 2004. Wasn't a bombed defused in New York a few years ago? I think a big part of the attacks decreasing is because the US, as well as other countries, are always busting plots.

Do you remember the incident in Mumbai in 2008? What about the one two weeks ago? Those attacks were carried out by Muslim extremists.

To blame the whole thing on religion is stupid. I'm not saying you are, but an easy solution is not "fuck religion." If religion were eliminated from the Earth, humans would create something else to justify their actions, the way they creates religion. Then we'd be back to square one. If there's no God people are fighting over, then people will form cults of of ideologies and philosophies and war will be waged that way.

There are religious nuts out there. Nuts are the ones that ruin it for others. No one will criticize Christians because they are in the majority just about everywhere. That's why making fun of Christianity is laughed at but making fun of Jews and Muslims is a big no-no. I think people have issues with Christianity and Islam mostly, yet they lump the numerous other religions into one group and say "fuck them. They should just die."

And that's just downright ignorant and irrational. There is no doubt in my mind that those who call for the end of religion have been hurt by religion and resent it. Much like the way the Muslims feel they have been hurt by the West and/or Christianity and have ill feelings towards it. The two aforementioned groups are the same people in my eyes. Aggressive, vengeful people out to spread their agenda upon anyone and everyone. These people both need to be brought into a stadium, doused in diesel, and burned. You don't fight extremism with extremism.

 

[Pittsey]

Does Spain count as the West? They were bombed in 2004. Wasn't a bombed defused in New York a few years ago? I think a big part of the attacks decreasing is because the US, as well as other countries, are always busting plots.

Do you remember the incident in Mumbai in 2008? What about the one two weeks ago? Those attacks were carried out by Muslim extremists.

To blame the whole thing on religion is stupid. I'm not saying you are, but an easy solution is not "fuck religion." If religion were eliminated from the Earth, humans would create something else to justify their actions, the way they creates religion. Then we'd be back to square one. If there's no God people are fighting over, then people will form cults of of ideologies and philosophies and war will be waged that way.

There are religious nuts out there. Nuts are the ones that ruin it for others. No one will criticize Christians because they are in the majority just about everywhere. That's why making fun of Christianity is laughed at but making fun of Jews and Muslims is a big no-no. I think people have issues with Christianity and Islam mostly, yet they lump the numerous other religions into one group and say "fuck them. They should just die."

And that's just downright ignorant and irrational. There is no doubt in my mind that those who call for the end of religion have been hurt by religion and resent it. Much like the way the Muslims feel they have been hurt by the West and/or Christianity and have ill feelings towards it. The two aforementioned groups are the same people in my eyes. Aggressive, vengeful people out to spread their agenda upon anyone and everyone. These people both need to be brought into a stadium, doused in diesel, and burned. You don't fight extremism with extremism.

I personally think Terrorism is very, very rare and the chances of being caught in a terrorist attack are very small. I think that the governments and the media play on the fear of terrorism to create support for the invasion of oil rich countries, and for a control that religion used to give, and no longer does.

But that's just my opinion, and a conspiracy theory.

 

[dilla]

I personally think Terrorism is very, very rare and the chances of being caught in a terrorist attack are very small. I think that the governments and the media play on the fear of terrorism to create support for the invasion of oil rich countries, and for a control that religion used to give, and no longer does.

But that's just my opinion, and a conspiracy theory.

No, I agree. The media and the government do exaggerate it a bit. The TSA is absolutely unnecessary, or at least not at the level at which they are operating (strict, but they're still missing explosives intentionally smuggled through by secret tests and instead go after the wrong person). But terrorism is definitely there worldwide, not just the West. I personally think people in Islamic countries have it worse. To trivialize the isolated terrorist attacks that have happened outside of those countries for a second, they live every day with the chance of a car bomb going off. Worst part? It actually happens. The US doesn't have car bombs and suicide bombers. People don't walk around New York City wondering when the next suicide attack will happen.

But that doesn't mean we stay completely ignorant about it either. People have a tendency to trivialize terrorism or exaggerate it. I just wanted to clarify you were at least acknowledging it happened, but understanding it could be a lot worse but measures we have out now to "end terrorism" really aren't the right ways to go about doing it.

 

[Flipmo]

I personally think Terrorism is very, very rare and the chances of being caught in a terrorist attack are very small. I think that the governments and the media play on the fear of terrorism to create support for the invasion of oil rich countries, and for a control that religion used to give, and no longer does.

But that's just my opinion, and a conspiracy theory.

It's a perfectly legit opinion, and I've heard the same from others... you know, pub talk.

 

[Flipmo]

The defence lawyer for the Norwegian man who has confessed to twin attacks that killed at least 76 people in the Oslo area says Anders Behring Breivik claims to be part of an organization with several cells in Western countries.
Geir Lippestad also told reporters Tuesday in Oslo that Breivik says the attacks outside a government building and on a nearby island hosting a youth Labour Party gathering were necessary because he's in a state of war.
Lippestad said Breivik, 32, talked about "two cells in Norway but several cells abroad."
Although Breivik confessed to last Friday's bombing and the mass shootings at the island retreat, on Monday he pleaded not guilty to terrorism charges, alleging he was just trying to save Europe from Muslim colonization.

Police take Anders Behring Breivik, left, from court following his hearing in Oslo on Monday, where he pleaded not guilty to Norway's deadliest attack since the Second World War.



Asked whether his client showed any empathy for the victims, Lippestad said "he says he's sorry that he had to do this but it was necessary to start a revolution in the Western world."
Lippestad also said that Breivik asked him how many people he had killed.
Breivik will undergo medical testing to determine his state of mind, but Lippestad said it was too early to determine if an insanity plea would be part of his defence.
Lippestad said Breivik had expected he would be stopped earlier by the police and was surprised he reached the island.
He described his client as a "very cold person" and said he didn't know why Breivik had chosen him to be his lawyer. Lippestad also confirmed that he is a member of the Labour Party, the apparent target of his client, but he didn't know if Breivik knew his political affiliation.
Also on Tuesday, Norway's justice minister said employees from his department are still missing after the attack on the government headquarters.
The comments by Knut Storberget came a day after Breivik made his first court appearance. During the hearing held behind closed doors, he claimed his network has two other cells, according to Judge Kim Heger of Oslo District Court.
Lippestad said the hearing was closed over concerns that his client could send signals to other cells.
Breivik will be held for at least the next eight weeks and will be placed in isolation — unable to receive letters or visitors except his lawyer — for the first four, Heger told reporters after the hearing.
Police also announced Monday that the death toll from Friday's bombing outside a government building in the capital rose by one to eight, while the number of fatalities in the attack hours later at a youth camp on the island near Oslo was lowered to 68.

 

[Casey]

it sounds crazy....but lesser things have started revolutions and wars in the past...

wasn't WW1 started by the assassination of a duke, or something?

 

[vg4030]

wasn't WW1 started by the assassination of a duke, or something?

Yupp, Rio Ferdinand