Technology Apple

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#1
are complete and utter fucking morons for imposing this new rule that content providers have to use THEIR system for in-app purchases and give them a cut. This means companies like Amazon and Netflix may pull their services altogether. Yet another idiot move from Cupertino.

Why Are You People Defending Apple?
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#3
More lies and disingenuous information from Steve Jobs today at the announcement of the iPad 2 (which doesn't have 4G, has the same resolution as the first iPad, has fuck-all RAM, still has no sdcard or wireless sync, and basically sucks).

He quoted Samsung's VP as saying that Galaxy Tab sales were "quite small". This is widely known to be a misquote, the Samsung guy actually said "quite smooth", but that doesn't fit your twisted manifesto does it Steve? He also stated that the iPad has 65k tablet-specific apps compared to 100 specific tablet apps on Android. Yeah, let's compare a device that's been out for a year to one that launched LAST WEEK. Because that makes so much sense doesn't it.

Ugh. These damn sheeple.

AND LMFAO at this:



Because the iPad was the FIRST TABLET EVER, was it? No, it fucking wasn't. I bet he thinks the iPod was the first MP3 player and the iPhone was the first smartphone too. LAME.
 

_carmi

me, myself & us
#4
so much hate. you're right. but they are saying this cause the ipad was the first tablet that was successful and widely purchased around the world.

you can't deny that no matter what, apple always gets their fanboys and fangirls to buy whatever they sell. whatever they are doing works.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#5
but they are saying this cause the ipad was the first tablet that was successful and widely purchased around the world.orks.
Irrelevant. Google could have put out an "official" Android tablet before the iPad if they had wanted to and it would have still been successful. But, just like the iPad, it would have run exactly the same OS as the phone. Which makes no sense. Google took their time making an entirely different flavor of Android SPECIFICALLY for tablets. They took their time to make a product that is REALLY revolutionary. Unlike Apple who just pretend that everything they do is revolutionary when it isn't.

Exactly the same as how Android was in development for two years BEFORE the iPhone came out. The first iPhone sucked hard. Google waited until they had a product that was awesome. And even then, a lot of awesome Android features were still held back for 6 months until the first major OS update. Because they weren't ready. Apple puts shit out before it's ready just to claim "we did it first" even when they didn't. I don't give a fuck who did it first. I give a fuck about who does it better. And in both phones and tablets, it's Google.

"Whatever they are doing works" - what they are doing is convincing people who don't know better that their shit is good by a double combo of playing on their ignorance and also subtle mind control techniques. I've studied mind control and the subtle use of language in order to sway and effectively hypnotise people into falling for hype, buzz, and essentially believing what isn't true. And EVERYTHING I've read matches up to the way Steve Jobs markets, talks, and communicates. Weak-minded people fall for it hook line and sinker. You wouldn't believe how many Apple fans I've talked to that literally repeat phrases verbatim from Apple's PR campaigns and press conferences. Apple fans are a cult, and Jobs is "Dear Leader". He could easily start his own religion, and in some ways.... he has.

Funny thing is, websites like Cult of Mac think they've named themselves ironically when it's actually a perfect literal description. That's the REAL irony.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
#6
Every time this discussion comes up, I just realize I simply like my iPhone due to being familiar with it, and I just totally don't care otherwise. I think that the iOs for the iPhone is - by pure genius or pure luck - the most intuitive, fast and easy-to-use UI on a mobile phone. And I've had the chance to try Android now.

Lol @ "copycats" though.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
the most intuitive, fast and easy-to-use UI on a mobile phone. .
You're confusing intuitive with "simplistic". There's nothing intuitive about iOS, and the reason you'll find videos of babies and animals "using" it is because it's fucking fisher-price. it's colored blocks on a screen. press a block to perform a function, the nature of the function is made clear by the drawing on the colored block. each colored block has it's own function, and the sole button will return you to the original screen of colored blocks.

basically, it's a phone for people who don't really care about phones. it's not magical, it's not revolutionary, it's not a game changer, and every time they tout some amazing new feature, they've ripped it off from someone else and pretended otherwise. case in point - the Nexus S has a NFC chip and Google are making pro-active movements to push NFC technology for the benefit of everyone. They've actually used Portland as the testing ground for a lot of this, I just got back from there a few days ago, I was there for a month and I saw what they were doing.

Watch Apple put a NFC chip in the next iPhone in 5 months time or whenever, and act like it's some new awesome thing that's never been done before. Then, when the technology becomes widespread, they'll claim it's because of them when they made little effort to push it in the first place. I'd actually put money on this happening.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#8
It's so true that Apple are basically now copying other manufacturers now. The Smartphone market turned into an extremely fast rat race which was initiated by Android. Every major developer started using Android and used amazing amounts of money to make their phones more appealing than the competition, since everyone used the same software anyway. After a few years we have 4 inch displays and 1,2ghz dual core processors in mobile phones lol. Not to mention more ram than average netbooks had 2 years ago. Now Apple is playing catch up. The Iphone 4 was the first major rip off, I'm pretty sure that the Iphone 5 will be one too. Same with the Ipad 2. Apple is just stealing ideas from other companies, releasing a device similar to their past device but with implemented a few said ideas and then claiming that others are stealing ideas from them.

About Iphone being intuitive, well - that was always one of the most overrated things about Apple. How is it more intuitive than other mobile OS? For example TouchWiz from Samsung is an evident IOs UI ripoff, just made even easier to use. Basically it looks and works almost exactly like the iOs UI yet it's considered to be one of the worst Android UIs.

Sometimes I wonder if people are saying that Apple devices are so easy to use because that's what Apple claims. So they believe that they are easy to use, after getting used to them it's only obvious that other devices would feel different. That would prevent them from making the change and Apple's "our devices are so easy to use" makes that change even harder, because people automatically think that other devices are so much less intuitive, subconsciously believing that.

For example I couldn't see how anything "out of the box" can be complicated on my first Android phone I had, which was something that Apple fans claimed. Then when I started using the IPad it felt so different to me that I found some solutions very retarded, and I had to get used to it sometimes making mistakes in the beginning.
To me both iOS and Android are similarly easy or hard to use. Obviously you can do more complicated things with Android since it offers bigger possibilities but you don't have to and you will still be able to do more than with your Iphone.
Samsung's Bada is the easiest in my opinion since it's a Smartphone OS that feels like a feature phone but that's a different story.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#9
Everytime I try and play around with iOS on a friends device, I get bored shitless in about 2 minutes.

as for playing catch-up, i'm hearing that the iPad only has 256MB of RAM LOL!!!!! My fucking phone has 512 and its been out for almost 6 months already.
 

Preach

Well-Known Member
#10
It's so true that Apple are basically now copying other manufacturers now. The Smartphone market turned into an extremely fast rat race which was initiated by Android. Every major developer started using Android and used amazing amounts of money to make their phones more appealing than the competition, since everyone used the same software anyway. After a few years we have 4 inch displays and 1,2ghz dual core processors in mobile phones lol. Not to mention more ram than average netbooks had 2 years ago. Now Apple is playing catch up. The Iphone 4 was the first major rip off, I'm pretty sure that the Iphone 5 will be one too. Same with the Ipad 2. Apple is just stealing ideas from other companies, releasing a device similar to their past device but with implemented a few said ideas and then claiming that others are stealing ideas from them.
Here is what I'm reading from you and Casey:
- I have a principal problem with Apples marketing strategy, and find it unethical
- This is one of many reasons why I disprove of Apple and their products, but it's one of the more important reasons
- My technical knowledge tells me their specs are bad, and I don't like bad specs on paper because my technical knowledge has a feeling for how the specs will affect the performance, even when talking about new technologies I have no first hand knowledge of.
- Closed solutions are a way of the past, open-source is the future.

Here is one aspect you both seem to have forgot: The speed of computer memory (RAM) is not only decided by the amount of megabytes. RAM also has a bus frequency that affects the performance. Newer chipsets also outperform older ones. This part here is more in response to what Casey said. Don't jump to conclusions, and if nothing else - if the user experience is good and seamless, what does it matter. More RAM would mean higher cost. More RAM than necessary is just silly. Who's to say Casey's phone wasn't stuffed with RAM so it would look good on paper, but with a cheap RAM that sucks ass. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm saying neither I nor you know. It's just a thought. And even if I'm wrong and Casey's phone RAM just totally outperforms the iPad, I'm falling back on the argument that the user experience should dictate the opinion, not the spec sheet and potential. I don't use tablets so I don't know why I'm addressing it anyway lol.

While I'm all for open-source, and think "open-source" code and hardware is great (I'm a PC user afterall), I acknowledge that a closed source solution is just a different alternative, and some people will prefer it for whatever reason. Some people, the ones you describe as people that don't care about phones, simply don't want to have to know all the shit that you need to know to be an Android user. Apples business model ("closed source") is a needed alternative, and it's weird that you can't acknowledge it, or that you dismiss people who prefer such a model as "not caring about phones". Not everyone is like you. Not everyone wants to spend their spare time reading Android blogs. Some people do more important things, and that's not a jab because Casey tours and produces music and all that shit. I guess I should rephrase - it doesn't interest me in the same way it does you. Some people want to pay at the counter and take home the goods and be done with. That is the solution Apple kind of offer you.

About Iphone being intuitive, well - that was always one of the most overrated things about Apple. How is it more intuitive than other mobile OS? For example TouchWiz from Samsung is an evident IOs UI ripoff, just made even easier to use. Basically it looks and works almost exactly like the iOs UI yet it's considered to be one of the worst Android UIs.
Casey explained why the iOS is intuitive, he said that's "simplistic" and not "intuitive", but I dare to disagree. It's not just the fact that the menu consists of blocks that even children could understand. The UI remains the same throughout every feature and app. My experience with say the HTC Desire is that for whatever I wanted to do, I had to push more buttons. The menu is in an awkward place, and you have to memorise the menu tree to know what to do. The objects on the screen are smaller, the widgets and 4x home screens are similar to Apple's iOS but they aren't better. They are just different. The ripped-off iOS argument you are making is foreign to me. I don't know that phone. Obviously a rip-off will be nothing like the actual product so I don't even get how that is an argument. iOS is bad because an Android clone was considered the worst Android UI? If you say so.

Sometimes I wonder if people are saying that Apple devices are so easy to use because that's what Apple claims. So they believe that they are easy to use, after getting used to them it's only obvious that other devices would feel different. That would prevent them from making the change and Apple's "our devices are so easy to use" makes that change even harder, because people automatically think that other devices are so much less intuitive, subconsciously believing that.

For example I couldn't see how anything "out of the box" can be complicated on my first Android phone I had, which was something that Apple fans claimed. Then when I started using the IPad it felt so different to me that I found some solutions very retarded, and I had to get used to it sometimes making mistakes in the beginning.
To me both iOS and Android are similarly easy or hard to use. Obviously you can do more complicated things with Android since it offers bigger possibilities but you don't have to and you will still be able to do more than with your Iphone.
Samsung's Bada is the easiest in my opinion since it's a Smartphone OS that feels like a feature phone but that's a different story.
Cocky and ridiculous. I can turn that right around on you. Some times I wonder if people who are saying Android is so great are doing so because that's what Google claims. Some times I wonder if people who are saying Android is so great are doing so because they hate Apple's business model so much from a principal point of view it fills them with unfounded anger which makes them unable to appreciate the product even if they try. It's fine that you wonder those things, but when you present such an argument I can't help but ask myself: Do you really think you have seen some sort of light that's better than everyone elses? It sounds religious the way you use hearsay and personal speculation as foundation for an argument in a public discussion. I could probably argument why it makes you come off as a sociopath, but I'm not gonna go that far because I hear what you are saying. I'm just trying to show you how it looks for everyone else but you and those who agree with you. Opinions are never right or wrong.

Your experience with using Android first, then iOS later, sounds just like my experience with using iOS first, then Android later. Again, I don't really understand why that's significant. Can't you see the obvious - it's not about which OS is better, it's about which one you came accustomed to. Does becoming accustomed to something make it more right? Or does it simply make it more convenient from a subjective point of view? Does subjective convenience hold any merit in a public discussion? Maybe, but not really.

I just really can't help but think there is a mixture of principal hatred for Apple that holds you from even acknowledging good things about the company and their products. And that was my original point. I am happy with the iPhone. I don't bother with moral opinions about a company's way of doing business as long as I am happy with the product. If I want to read a book, I buy a paperback, not an iBook. The Kindle argument is lost on me as is it on many others. Why? Because I started reading books in paperback format, and using a book reading tablet or mobile phone just seems weird, because I became accustomed to reading paperbacks. Maybe I'm just wrong with that though. I would like to revise and say that it's not about not caring about mobile phones, it's about not caring about spec sheets and business decisions, and focusing on the subjective experience.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#11
Here is one aspect you both seem to have forgot: The speed of computer memory (RAM) is not only decided by the amount of megabytes. RAM also has a bus frequency that affects the performance. Newer chipsets also outperform older ones. This part here is more in response to what Casey said. Don't jump to conclusions, and if nothing else - if the user experience is good and seamless, what does it matter. More RAM would mean higher cost. More RAM than necessary is just silly. Who's to say Casey's phone wasn't stuffed with RAM so it would look good on paper, but with a cheap RAM that sucks ass. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm saying neither I nor you know. It's just a thought. And even if I'm wrong and Casey's phone RAM just totally outperforms the iPad, I'm falling back on the argument that the user experience should dictate the opinion, not the spec sheet and potential. I don't use tablets so I don't know why I'm addressing it anyway lol.
Well, from the fact that it has so little memory we can safely assume that it'll not have or will have extremely limited multitasking, will not allow things stored in the memory resulting in long launch time of applications and it will not run memory-heavy applications (for example a lot of business oriented apps which was also a limit fe. with business intelligence clients on the original Ipad). The speed of Ram is not at all significant in mobile devices simply because other things are the bottleneck. The flash storage on these devices is way slower than any modern RAM memory and a 1GHZ processor does not need incredibly fast RAM. An upgrade of RAM speed is not necessary. However being able to store data in Ram is what is important because you don't have to load everything from slow flash memory all the time. That's why you need a lot of ram. It's not like technical specifications are just some abstract being, unrelated to user experience. They make the user experience what it is. You can justify the fact that you have a technically inferior device with the fact that you're happy with it. Certainly Apple marketing helps you with that. It doesn't change the fact that most probably you would be happier with a better device.

Casey explained why the iOS is intuitive, he said that's "simplistic" and not "intuitive", but I dare to disagree. It's not just the fact that the menu consists of blocks that even children could understand. The UI remains the same throughout every feature and app. My experience with say the HTC Desire is that for whatever I wanted to do, I had to push more buttons. The menu is in an awkward place, and you have to memorise the menu tree to know what to do. The objects on the screen are smaller, the widgets and 4x home screens are similar to Apple's iOS but they aren't better. They are just different. The ripped-off iOS argument you are making is foreign to me. I don't know that phone. Obviously a rip-off will be nothing like the actual product so I don't even get how that is an argument. iOS is bad because an Android clone was considered the worst Android UI? If you say so.

Your experience with using Android first, then iOS later, sounds just like my experience with using iOS first, then Android later. Again, I don't really understand why that's significant. Can't you see the obvious - it's not about which OS is better, it's about which one you came accustomed to. Does becoming accustomed to something make it more right? Or does it simply make it more convenient from a subjective point of view? Does subjective convenience hold any merit in a public discussion? Maybe, but not really.
Every Android phone has menu that consists of blocks/icons. You were extremely unlucky with HTC Desire because it uses Sense UI which is probably the most complicated UI available on any Android phone. It's not Android UI, it's Sense UI. Now with Android you can actually just download any "UI" you like, which is known as "Launchers". There are so many of them that you can pick any that suits your liking, if you don't really like the standard Android one.

Now my rip off argument is, that if a very rich and powerful company takes an already existing user interface and upgrades it to make it even better and easier to use, and then users think that it's inferior to the original Android user interface that means that the original user interface that this company's user interface was based is most probably inferior to Android's user interface. Nevertheless at the very end I pointed out that I think that Android and Iphone have equally easy or hard user interfaces out of the box, and that I think that Samsung's Bada is easier but also kind of similar to Iphone indicating that it's not "oooh Google ftw!" for me. Now the fact is, that Android offers way, way more possibilities at the same time.

I just really can't help but think there is a mixture of principal hatred for Apple that holds you from even acknowledging good things about the company and their products
There's some truth about the "evil marketing, Apple bad" part for me. It became something that I'm subconsciously fighting with. You can obviously see it in my responses but again in case of electronics I think that I'm pretty successful at making unbiased opinions based on facts and relatively fair opinion based on my experience with all devices. I'm all for market of superior products, and that's what guides me in my responses.
But I can see people who use Apple products with little experience with other devices thinking that we are heavily biased. Now while you can certainly tell that neither me nor Casey are positive about Apple devices it's mostly because we know these devices and we know how they compare to others on the market. You will hear very similar things from other people who had experience with Apple and their direct market competition. We even have people on SH who were happy with their Iphones and then made a switch to Android and you can hear their opinions (Pittsey comes to my mind).
Now most Apple users are mostly living in their own world only experiencing their own devices. They are getting a lot of praise for that from Apple and in result other people with similar experience. Apple does everything to support their conviction by their untrue propaganda. The circle closes here. Some internet people who say that Android is better are probably just spreading lies because so many people are happy with Apple and there and even Jobs said this and he has more credibility because he's a head of the company that probably does research and all, and how could they lie?
So I understand that you don't understand people who say that Android is so superior. It's a normal reaction from people who only use their Iphone and are relatively happy with it. After switching to a good Android device you would probably understand too, and then after voicing your opinion most Iphone users probably wouldn't really be convinced by your arguments too, and you would sound a little like an Iphone hater to them. Because they also live in their happy Iphone world bombed by information that it's the best thing out there.
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#12
I agree with points from Casey and Masta, and I agree with points from Preach. But... I can't be bothered to type an essay.

What I will say is I was very familiar with my iphone, and found it easy to use from day 1. I moved to Android basically because of people on here, and then a couple of guys I worked with who are techy recommending the same. Although they like the HTC range. It was a better deal for the purchase of the phone, and a better deal for my calls. It took me a couple of weeks to get really into android and to contemplate using a custom rom. Since I have I have been well and truly sold and will never go back to apple. I will always wait, and see what google bring because it is ultimately better.

Having an iphone or an ipad is a trend. They are good pieces of kit, just not the best. Each to their own though. Choose what you prefer. Just don't claim something is market leading, ground breaking or the best in it's class unless it is true!
 
#13
Its very true that everyone is copying the iPad now. Just like every is still copying the iPhone. Two best of class products.

Apple had sold 15 million iPad devies in nine months, ”more than every tablet PC ever sold" Apple made tablets popular like it or not.

As a side note iMovie and Garageband for iPad look amazing. You'd never find apps of this quality on Android.
 
#14
Some times I wonder if people who are saying Android is so great are doing so because they hate Apple's business model so much from a principal point of view it fills them with unfounded anger which makes them unable to appreciate the product even if they try.
ding ding ding!

Masta and Casey.

Masta has already proven himself to be an ignorant fuck.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#16
ding ding ding!

Masta and Casey.

Masta has already proven himself to be an ignorant fuck.
Please, not you again.

The iPad 2 will be a huge success and Casey and Masta will cry themselves to sleep...again.
And I will do my best to prevent that from happening! Inform the masses on how wrong they are :p
Seriously, people are like sheep. Usually massively making decisions that are far from optimal.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#17
the iPad 2 will be a success, most Apple products are. That's cool I guess. The HP tablet, the Xoom, and even the Blackberry Playbook are all better tablets, straight up. Sure Apple is going to sell more tablets than all of those combined most likely, but people who do the research will know they bought the better product.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#18
Apple have sold that many because they put products out before they are ready just to say they are first.

But, when a company like Google takes it time, waits to make a quality product, doesn't care about being first, do you know what happens over time? This:

Android overtakes BlackBerry in US marketshare - ComScore | The National Business Review

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=htt...+apple&usg=AFQjCNGDkk9oJXYC_nCUDo1dbCUmkiKZvA

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=htt...+apple&usg=AFQjCNEiLtaZ-h84iinlk_-psrzIKlxfDA

Eugene Kaspersky Says Android Could Dominate with 80% Market Share › AndroidGuys

As for who is copying who, why do I see a shitload of article saying things like this?

Apple is reportedly working on an iPhone model to compete with Google's growing Android handset market share.
Apple can try to compete, but in the long term, iOS will fail compared to Android, just like OSX lost the PC war.

Oh, and without Jobs running the company, and without long term design guru Jonathan Ive (who wants to leave Apple to move back to England).... Apple are even more fucked.

Wake up, smell the coffee, and realize the truth - Android is just way better. Apple fanboys are the only ones who can't see it.

I don't have any hatred for Apple and I don't have a big problem with their business model. I have a problem with their sycophantic army of sheep who fall hook and line and sinker for their manipulative, hypnotising, cult-like marketing techniques, their disingenuous spin and their lies.

But, hey if millions of pad want to buy inferior products, more fool them. It makes no difference to me.

NIelsen : Consumers prefer Android
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
#19
Its very true that everyone is copying the iPad now. Just like every is still copying the iPhone. Two best of class products.

Apple had sold 15 million iPad devies in nine months, ”more than every tablet PC ever sold" Apple made tablets popular like it or not.

As a side note iMovie and Garageband for iPad look amazing. You'd never find apps of this quality on Android.
I disagree that anyone is copying the ipad. No-one rebadges CPU's like Apple. No-one makes up names for an LCD screen like Apple.
 

ARon

Well-Known Member
#20
The only thing that bugs me about people and Apple is that some of the consumers will argue to the death that Mac OS is this and that but know nothing about UNIX
 

Latest posts

Donate

Any donations will be used to help pay for the site costs, and anything donated above will be donated to C-Dub's son on behalf of this community.

Members online

No members online now.
Top