Your conclusion on God's existence

[bigmack]

we, or at least i, dont explain it at all because i cant.

religions explain it.

btw.: lol@mack posting in WoW

Very good question and one that no-one can answer - but those who do believe in god and think the world it his creation , how did he do it and what proof is there that he did indeed do it ? That is another question which cannot be answered .

the complexity of the world and life is proof enough that it was deliberately designed that way.why are the sun and moon a perfect distance from earth to allow life?slight differences would result in unlivable conditions.why is the human body so sophisticated and perfect.i can go on and on.

If God does exist then why did he stop here , why not create races and animals on other planets near us like mars for example ?

we dont know if there is,or isnt life on other planets yet.

Why does he stand back and watch the devestation which happens on our planet on a daily basis , be it murderous crimes and poverty to the destruction of the rain forrests , surely he created the world so if he is so great then why sit back and watch its destruction , why not do something about it ?

because god gave us freedom.he does not control us.you can do good,or you can do bad.you will be judged for it all.if everything was controlled and everything was perfect,there would be no reason to live.



sorry for hijacking your thread this is my last post

 

[Glockmatic]

religions explain it.

So do many other things

the complexity of the world and life is proof enough that it was deliberately designed that way.why are the sun and moon a perfect distance from earth to allow life?slight differences would result in unlivable conditions.why is the human body so sophisticated and perfect.i can go on and on.

One in a billion chance the sun and earth are at the perfect distance, and since there are trillions of stars in the universe it wouldn't be that astonishing. The human body is as "perfect" as any other animal, we just have thumbs and a more sophisticated brain.

Anyways back on topic. I use to believe in Gods (born Taoist/Buddhist) but as years went on I started not believe anymore. Science makes more sense to me than religion (also science is more reliable)

 

[XIAN]

I believe in God and I have gone back and forth many times.

I have this friend who is a physics major at Princeton, who's a devoted Christian. I asked him if he ever thinks he'll lose his faith in science, and he said no. He said that faith is not about thinking something is likely due to evidence, or looking for clues to the existence of some sort of higher power. Religion is a way for people to relate to their universe on a spiritual level. If it is not improving your life, you should not follow it. I am a Buddhist Catholic, and I am outwardly against many things in the Catechism. But for me, what's important is that when I go to mass every week, I can spend sometime away from this world, and in the presence of something divine inside myself. There is something about the Mass that brings it out. Not that it's necessary by any means, but I think just knowing I can go there, is a reminder that God is with us. The story of Jesus of Nazareth, from birth, death, and resurrection, is an inspiration to say the least, and when you find THAT CONNECTION (in whatever religion- Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, even Scientology) on a spiritual level, it is the greatest fulfillment you could ever imagine. It will hit you like an 18-wheeler.

So God is the cultivation of everything in existence, and even that which does not exist but that we can imagine. It is my belief that God is beyond any human contemplation (BEYOND right/wrong, good/bad), but I think that just knowing that things happen for a reason, and the fact that we are not alone, is enough.

For more on God, read Karen Armstrong's "The Spiral Staircase," which is a beautiful book about having faith, losing it for many many years, and finding it again a (not-so) obvious place.

Three things to know to believe in God:
1.) God loves you, more than any of us can ever imagine.
2.) God is with you always, giving you strength and hope, even in the shadow of death and suffering.
3.) God is unknowable.

"It is only the impossible that is possible for God. He has given over the possible to the mechanics of matter and the autonomy of his creatures. "
"Two prisoners whose cells adjoin communicate with each other by knocking on the wall. The wall is the thing which separates them but is also their means of communication. It is the same with us and God. Every separation is a link. "
"We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him. "
-Simone Weil

 

[HitEmUp21]

Nietzsche killed any faith I may have had. I was always against conventional conceptions of God (as seen in religions), just as I thought that revelations from this force presented in words could literally not be the truth. I guess that was the beginning of my decline into atheism, which coincided with a much more intense enthusiasm for philosophy. After very much losing my faith, I decided to take a leap of faith and be committed to an entirely atheistic existence, just so I don't have a foot in each camp. I also backed it up with the Nietzschean idea of living this life. If I don't have anything after or whatever, then I'm more likely to view this life as more valuable.

So, in a sense it was somewhat of a lifestyle choice when I really got into a conflict over its/his/her existence. I rationally made a decision not to continue believing, when I had lost the faith. (Because I know that there are many people who believe, but don't truly believe.)

 

[Jokerman]

Notice how any thread that asks any question relating to God always has ppl telling us how they view God?

Question: What kind of sneakers do you think God would wear?

Typical answer: God LOVES you and offers a wonderful PLAN for your life. Man was created to have fellowship with God; but, because of his stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way, and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is evidence of what the Bible calls sin.

 

[struggle01]

I believe in God but i dont believe in religon if that makes sense. I think the bible and most of the stuff they teach in church is fake or manipulated. Most the stories in the bible were hand picked theres plenty of scriptures and stuff left out. If religon was such a great thing it people wouldnt die over it. I dont mean die to uphold it i mean get killed because people impose it on others. You cant kill in the name of god that sh*t makes no sense. So i believe theres a god or something watching over us but i think through history the true meaning of the purpose got so distotorted we dont really know what god or his purpose really is. That feeling to do whats "good" or "right" is all thats left.

 

[struggle01]

dinosaurs? how the world was made in 7 days and god never mentions dinosaurs in creation so when did they exist? Before the light impossible. Then the bible say god made the plants grow before he made the sun. How? Because god can do anythning? No becuase genesis is creation myth, or "hypothesis" on how things happened before science proved it wrong.

 

[Chronic]

what about you?

Undecided. Only conclusion that I've made is that I'll never be able to decide on it. I acknowledge both as possibilities. So I'm agnostic as well. Can't imagine changing my mind.

...

"religions explain it."

Just because they explain it doesn't mean it's automatically correct. Greek mythology "explained" a lot of things.

"the complexity of the world and life is proof enough that it was deliberately designed that way.why are the sun and moon a perfect distance from earth to allow life?
slight differences would result in unlivable conditions.why is the human body so sophisticated and perfect.i can go on and on."

None of that provides any certainty, it's a possibility. The world is complex thus God exists a statement/belief that is supported by nothing other than faith.
Don't the Holy Books say that only life was created on Earth? There are endless galaxies and in one galaxy the conditions happened to be appropriate to create life (Maybe more but we'll more than likely never know). That's also a possibility, again supported by faith. What makes this any less possible?

"because god gave us freedom.he does not control us.you can do good,or you can do bad.you will be judged for it all.

I think he means that God may give us freedom but the freedom to do bad also affects others. Just think of how messed up the human world is and always has been because of things that people are allowed to do. Some people can't comprehend how God, described as he is, could allow those things to happen for whatever reason.

"if everything was controlled and everything was perfect,there would be no reason to live."

That doesn't explain why God lets it happen though and it would only mean that God shouldn't have created life. Also the world doesn't have to be perfect but it doesn't have to be like this either.

"sorry for hijacking your thread this is my last post"

Please continue, I made this thread to be discussed

Notice how any thread that asks any question relating to God always has ppl telling us how they view God?

Question: What kind of sneakers do you think God would wear?

Typical answer: God LOVES you and offers a wonderful PLAN for your life. Man was created to have fellowship with God; but, because of his stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way, and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is evidence of what the Bible calls sin.

Haha!
Good post also.

 

[Illuminattile]

for those who don't believe in god,how do you explain the creation of the world?

Nobody can explain it. The difference between theists and atheists is that the latter accept this and don't have to create explanations.

People couldn't explain gravity, the setting of the sun, weather systems etc. so they created Gods to explain these things. People don't like to not comprehend something, so they're willing to swallow any nice, easy explanation for it.

You're also assuming that the Universe had to be created, that there had to be a "cause" for it. That's because we can't comprehend the idea of something simply being. Everything we see around us was created at some point. You can't apply our 'small' logic to the Universe.

the complexity of the world and life is proof enough that it was deliberately designed that way.why are the sun and moon a perfect distance from earth to allow life?slight differences would result in unlivable conditions.

Sorry to go off topic, but that's bollocks. You can't look at the world, decide that it's perfect and then talk about how impossible it is for all of this to have happened arbitrarily. Look at all the (apparently) barren, lifeless planets around us. It's not as though there's one planet in the Universe and it happened to be suitable for life. With the vastness of the Universe, the existence of one planet suitable for life isn't surprising.

Plus, you're talking about life as we know it. If conditions were different, perhaps life would be different?

"Indeed, many examples of fine-tuning are evidence that life is fine-tuned to the cosmos, not vice versa. This is exactly what evolution proposes."

why is the human body so sophisticated and perfect.i can go on and on.

You can't look at the human body and assume it's perfect and thus must have been designed.
a) if it wasn't as sophisticated and "perfect", we wouldn't have survived as a race.
b) you've no reference point, no basis for your idea that the human body is perfect. It's like looking at the very first wheel and declaring it perfect, because there's nothing to compare it to. I can think of millions of things that would improve the human body; wings, gills, third eyes, extra arms, wheels, camouflage - why don't we have any of those?

Besides, designers usually aim for simplicity. If I was God and I was creating the human race, I wouldn't have made people as needlessly complex as they are. Why do creatures have organs or body parts that don't have a use (vestigial structures)

Like I said before, people like to have easy answers. Blaming a silent, invisible and reclusive creature that can do anything it wants to is the easiest way to answer a difficult question.

i believe theres a god or something watching over us

Why?

 

[cdawg86]

for those who don't believe in god,how do you explain the creation of the world?

Evolution?
I'm one of those people that havent quite made up their minds

 

[TecK NeeX]

Typical answer: God LOVES you and offers a wonderful PLAN for your life. Man was created to have fellowship with God; but, because of his stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way, and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is evidence of what the Bible calls sin.

How did life spring from non-life jokerman?

Your typical answer: Mistake? coincidence? or by chance? you pick, I've heard all three from Atheists countless times, dont shy away this time

Don't the Holy Books say that only life was created on Earth?

Nope. Qur'an mentions creatures on other worlds.

Nobody can explain it. The difference between theists and atheists is that the latter accept this and don't have to create explanations.

Funny cause im pretty sure i've heard you offer an explanation on a different thread a while back. What was it? An endless sequence of convenient mistakes? Not in those words but something similar to that

When you think about it though, it doesn't make sense. If you use intelligence and look at science, then having a god seems as absurd
Also looking at the bad cards people have been dealt, would god allow 1 person to feel so much pain?.

I'm pretty much the opposite of that. The more i look at sciecne the more of a believer i become. I laugh and shake my head @ people who feel they are left with no choice but to make a decision between either Science or Religion as if the 2 cant go together.

 

[TecK NeeX]

Why do creatures have organs or body parts that don't have a use (vestigial structures)

Who said they dont have a use? Darwin? when? 1800's?

In an article titled "Do 'Vestigial Organs' Provide Evidence for Evolution?" in the journal Evolutionary Theory, Evolutionist biologist S.R. Scadding sets out this fact:


Vestigial Structures was a myth reinforced by the primitive level of science at the time. As research and discoveries advanced, gradually it emerged that the organs described as "functionless" were actually ones whose functions had not yet been established. The more of these functions were discovered, the shorter became the list of "vestigial" organs.

The list set out in 1895 by the German anatomist R. Wiedersheim contained around 100 "vestigial human organs," including the appendix and the coccyx. As science progressed, it was established that all the organs on Widersheim's list, and which Darwin and his followers regarded as "vestigial," actually had important functions.

(S. R. Scadding, "Do 'Vestigial Organs' Provide Evidence for Evolution?", Evolutionary Theory, vol. 5, May 1981, p. 173) .

 

[Jokerman]

How did life spring from non-life jokerman?

How did God spring from nothing teck? However God is supposed to have done it, is how life did it.

Anyway, life didn't spring from non-life. They're both sides of one coin.

 

[TecK NeeX]

How did God spring from nothing teck? However God is supposed to have done it, is how life did it.

Ahh thank you that's the answer I was looking for. You can use that explanation when you admit Evolution is about as unscientific as God. Until then that answer is pathetic. You've just put Evolution in the same catergory as God, so lets treat them both like they should be, as Faith, belief in the unseen and the unproven. Not science

Anyway, life didn't spring from non-life. They're both sides of one coin.

Actually they're 2 completely different coins.

 

[Illuminattile]

Who said they dont have a use? Darwin? when? 1800's?

In an article titled "Do 'Vestigial Organs' Provide Evidence for Evolution?" in the journal Evolutionary Theory, Evolutionist biologist S.R. Scadding sets out this fact:


Vestigial Structures was a myth reinforced by the primitive level of science at the time. As research and discoveries advanced, gradually it emerged that the organs described as "functionless" were actually ones whose functions had not yet been established. The more of these functions were discovered, the shorter became the list of "vestigial" organs.

The list set out in 1895 by the German anatomist R. Wiedersheim contained around 100 "vestigial human organs," including the appendix and the coccyx. As science progressed, it was established that all the organs on Widersheim's list, and which Darwin and his followers regarded as "vestigial," actually had important functions.

(S. R. Scadding, "Do 'Vestigial Organs' Provide Evidence for Evolution?", Evolutionary Theory, vol. 5, May 1981, p. 173) .

The idea that the coccyx is important to support surrounding bones or organs doesn't hold much weight, considering it can be removed without adverse effect. The appendix's function is also disputed, and again it can be removed without problem.

The fact that some structures were incorrectly thought to be vestigial doesn't prove or disprove anything. There are still vestigial structures in humans and other animals. The male nipple, the wings on flightless birds and insects, the hind leg bones in whales, the erector pili in humans, wisdom teeth etc. etc.

 

[Illuminattile]

Anyway, let's not stray too far off topic. If you want to discuss evolution again, make a new thread or resurrect one of the old ones.

 

[Tru Principle]

I'm with Teck Neex on the idea that Science makes me a stronger believer. As a biology major, I am amazed on how our biochemistry works and how everything in nature is perfect from the biggest animals to the smallest one-cell-organisms.

Through science, I am able to see GOD.

 

[Dominator]

for those who don't believe in god,how do you explain the creation of the world?

I think the world developed out of the universe. The universe although wasn't created, it's just "being" there. you can find The mathematic structures on several natural elements already that's why i think the whole universe consists outta a simple complicated mathematic structure too.

 

[Pittsey]

I'm pretty much the opposite of that. The more i look at sciecne the more of a believer i become. I laugh and shake my head @ people who feel they are left with no choice but to make a decision between either Science or Religion as if the 2 cant go together.

Why laugh and shake your head?

Darwin's theories are what most people look at as the most probable aswer to how we came here. But Darwin was constrained by a christian society. He was forced to favour creationism.

But if religion is true, why are there so many different religions. I hate when people say "There is but 1 god but we all call him by different names." It's bullshit. Each religion has different stories.

And if the bible is correct then why don't the gospels agree on most of the stories? If Jesus fed people with a limited amount of fishes and loaves of bred in front of me. I'd be pretty amazed. I think I'd definately remember how many fishes and loaves there were. So why can't Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

Basically if god hates gay people then why not make an example of them and burn them in front of us? If the ten commandments are so important... Why wait until our death to punish us? Take me now and show me the error of my ways.

Read this message god, take heed of my words and banish me to hell for eternity. I dare you....




..... No answer. I guess he doesn't care.


There are far too many inaccuracies for me to believe. Either you believe in miracles or coincidence. I am a coincidence person. And until I see proof with my eyes I am a non believer.

So I'll see you in the afterlife... because we won't just be rotting bodies will we? We are far too important for that.



P.S - If god created the universe, and us. Who created god? Correct answers on a postcard. Winner gets an Xbox 360.

 

[Jokerman]

You can use that explanation when you admit Evolution is about as unscientific as God.

Evolution is not about how life started. It's not even within the sphere of evolution to have anything to say about how life started.