What if your child said he was gay?

[Illuminattile]

Well now you know why i wont allow them to, do you still believe its hypocritical of me?

It's not hypocritical of you to not want your young, irresponsible children to have sex, no.

Let me Know if you agree with this, if not please refrain from utter bullshit

Come on illuminattile, you're not an idiot. You're not going to come out and say "All people of faith should die!", that would just make people ignore you. You tone it down so that your views look more reasonable and rational.

The fact is, you don't like Religious people, their Beliefs and their scripture. You might not say it point blank, but it's true. I know it, you know it and everyone who's read your posts on the issue know it. You say you don't like it because it's a form of control/brainwashing, so you don't come across as a bigot or intolerant.

You're not discerning between religion and the religious. I don't dislike religious people, I dislike religion.

Is this admissible in court? you have no case!.. what was that 2 word comment you made above? Nice argument?

I have no case? Damn, I guess I'll have to drop my lawsuit against you. I wasn't trying to prove to anyone that you're a homophobe. I don't have to.

lol holy shit how often do you speak for people? is this one of your hobbies? what else do you know about me? I'll tell you this tho, the way i view homosexuality is no different than the way you view God, you will refuse to believe a supeme being exists until it is proven beyond any doubt that he does, right? well i'm no different, i refuse to believe Homosexuality is natural until it is proven beyond any doubt that it is.

Fair enough?

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is "natural", it's about tolerance of homosexuality.

Just cause I can't answer a question does not mean i can't give my opinion on it.

Did you not reply to ken with "marriage is nothing but a piece of paper"? is Ken not part of that population? did you expect him to have the same views on marriage as yours? conclusion? you DID speak for the 3/4 of the worlds population.

I said, to ken, "a marriage certificate is a piece of paper". I didn't imply that that sentiment was anything other than my own opinion. I didn't say "Everyone knows a marriage certificate is a piece of paper".

Funny, cause the way we perform marriage does not involve any kind of paper, there you are again, speaking for everyone

Got me on a technicality, nice rebuttal.

and again, you're speaking for all of us, you think the whole world believes marriage is just another piece of paper, you can't be this dull

Again, you're plucking things from thin air. Do I need a disclaimer on my posts that says "WARNING: May contain opinions"?

Just because you don't believe in the way religious couples perform marriage doesn't give you the right to tell them the only connection between each other is a piece of paper. I'd hardly call it that after everything a couple go through to be labled husband and wife. Being in the presence of a priest/Imam, church, the prayers and promises made to each other, the passages read from the scripture that officially bonds them together is what really connects them not a freakin piece of paper

The connection two people in love have with each other is not, in any way, dependant on whether or not they are seen as married in the eyes of God or by law or anything else. Let me put it this way; a married couple have no greater connection to each other than a non-married couple.
The reading of scriptures and the presence of a holy man doesn't improve their bond, it doesn't make them love each other more. If you want to get married to reflect your love for someone, and to show them that you're committed to them, then so be it. If I fell in love with a girl and she was dead-set on getting married, I'd do it too (and not just for the legal benefits). But standing in a church and putting a ring on her finger are purely symbolic gestures.

 

[The.Menace]

No, but I do call it a Sexual Identity Disorder, and thousands if not millions of homosexuals have been cured from it

Can you give me some sources into this claim? I would like to read what parts into this.

Lol quote. millions of homosexuals have been cured? If it was your goal to make yourself look dumb, you achieved that in that thread. I really thought you were an intelligent person, but I gotta admit I was wrong. You're intolerant, dogmatic, almost possessed person - nothing better the bigmack.

 

[Glockmatic]

cure for homosexuality? dumbest thing i've read in awhile

 

[TecK NeeX]

I wasn't trying to prove to anyone that you're a homophobe. I don't have to.

If you're not than you sure did make an exceptional job at trying to make it seem like you were, with your non-stop rediculous accusations

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is "natural", it's about tolerance of homosexuality.

How do you figure? because i dont believe it's normal? i dont believe down syndrome is normal, does that mean im being intolerant towards people with the disease? i dont hate homosexuals, i dislike same gender sex

I said, to ken, "a marriage certificate is a piece of paper". I didn't imply that that sentiment was anything other than my own opinion. I didn't say "Everyone knows a marriage certificate is a piece of paper".

You told him it's just another piece of paper when clearly you were expecting him to have the same views on marriage. knowing ken being a muslim and all, im sure marriage does/will mean alot more than just that to him. you shouldnt have included that in your agument Period!.

The connection two people in love have with each other is not, in any way, dependant on whether or not they are seen as married in the eyes of God or by law or anything else.

To YOU it does not, but it does to many couples who look forward to marriage for years. plus i never said love is depended on wether the couple are married or not, what i said was the connection between them will grow stronger once married, you dont believe in God so how the fuck can you feel what a religious couple would feel being married in the eyes of God? are you not speaking for them here?

The reading of scriptures and the presence of a holy man doesn't improve their bond, it doesn't make them love each other more.

how can you possibly know this when you haven't experienced anything remotely similar to this? how do you know couples dont feel closer, their bond stronger than ever once pronounced husband and wife by a holy man and in the eyes of God? How do you know all this? how many shoes have you been in?

dumbest thing i've read in awhile

You're intolerant, dogmatic, almost possessed person - nothing better the bigmack.

"proved who in here is "full of shit

I love ignorance and full of shit people who think they know all and can control others...

I opposed this all my life including this thread, but now after reading this worthless nonsence, I've decided I am in favor of abortion in cases of one night stands. congratz

Must i share your opinions on something which has no evidence to support it, and in fact, has evidence to not support it to avoid being called a homophobe, intolerant, Dogmatic, dumb, full of shit or i like this one "possessed"? If you dont agree with what i have to say than instead of sittin on your soar asses calling me names do yourself a favour and enlighten me, cause clearly you 4 know something i dont. calling me names isnt doing you justice.

 

[dcs7]

you're looking like a fool for calling an opinion stupid....moron

No offence, but aren't you doing the same thing he is doing? Calling him a moron for his opinion.

 

[not really ken]

^your clutching at straws. if you disagree with his opinion then counter it with something better than this!

 

[Zero Cool]

In all seriousness if your child is gay they're gay, period. No amount of "counselling", name calling or anything else will change this fact. A parent's duty is to support, console and help their child out in the best way they can so the child can mature and develop. By the looks of it some people in this thread are going to make horrible parents.

No, but I do call it a Sexual Identity Disorder, and thousands if not millions of homosexuals have been cured from it

This is almost funny, almost.

 

[Sebastian]

EDIT...misread something

 

[Illuminattile]

Yes, SOME couples might feel closer after getting married, just like some couples might feel closer after having a child together or buying a house together. Some couples might, but it's not inherently true, which is my point. Your stance is "You can't do X because you're not married, it's immoral unless you're married".

In my eyes, it doesn't matter one bit whether you're married or not.

 

[Sebastian]

Yes, SOME couples might feel closer after getting married, just like some couples might feel closer after having a child together or buying a house together. Some couples might, but it's not inherently true, which is my point. Your stance is "You can't do X because you're not married, it's immoral unless you're married".

thats not my point of view

anyway, i edited my post

In my eyes, it doesn't matter one bit whether you're married or not.

thats my point of view

 

[Get In The Van I Have Candy]

Must i share your opinions on something which has no evidence to support it, and in fact, has evidence to not support it to avoid being called a homophobe, intolerant, Dogmatic, dumb, full of shit or i like this one "possessed"? If you dont agree with what i have to say than instead of sittin on your soar asses calling me names do yourself a favour and enlighten me, cause clearly you 4 know something i dont. calling me names isnt doing you justice.

Still you haven't provided any real sources to your claim that thousand if not millions homosexuals have been cured. I like evidence, documents, sources, etc etc to back up any claim that has been said. This is how we call differentiate from the truth and from false aka bullshit. Also claiming that you can change a person is just that a claim and not factual. So get on your high horse and give us facts to your claims, if you can't just say it.

 

[Illuminattile]

thats not my point of view

anyway, i edited my post

Sorry, I didn't mean it to look like I was referring directly to you, I just couldn't be bothered to make another quote-filled response

It was aimed at TecK, and to a lesser extent ken. Those who don't believe in sex before marriage.

 

[Jokerman]

If it wasn't for sex before marriage, there'd be no sex at all.

 

[Jokerman]

Still you haven't provided any real sources to your claim that thousand if not millions homosexuals have been cured. I like evidence, documents, sources, etc etc to back up any claim that has been said. This is how we call differentiate from the truth and from false aka bullshit. Also claiming that you can change a person is just that a claim and not factual. So get on your high horse and give us facts to your claims, if you can't just say it.

http://www.narth.com/

 

[TecK NeeX]

Yes, SOME couples might feel closer after getting married, which is my point. Your stance is "You can't do X because you're not married, it's immoral unless you're married".

Right im sure that was your point, you made the jump from "marriage does in no way bring couples closer or more in love" to "well yeah... some couples do feel closer and more in love after marriage". funny...

In my eyes, it doesn't matter one bit whether you're married or not.

In your eyes yeah but dont speak for people with different eyes

No amount of "counselling",

Still you haven't provided any real sources to your claim that thousand if not millions homosexuals have been cured. I like evidence, documents, sources, etc etc to back up any claim that has been said. This is how we call differentiate from the truth and from false aka bullshit. Also claiming that you can change a person is just that a claim and not factual. So get on your high horse and give us facts to your claims, if you can't just say it.

Important gay-to-straight research
published in APA Journal

"I'm pleased that this research summary will reach an audience of psychologists and mental health professionals that may not be aware of ex-gay issues'. "My literature review contradicts the policies of major mental health organizations because it suggests that sexual orientation, once thought to be an unchanging sexual trait, is actually quite flexible for many people, changing as a result of therapy for some, ministry for others and spontaneously for still others."

"The APA's professionalism in handling this research is commendable and I think it demonstrates the APA's willingness to explore all sides of this important matter," Throckmorton said.

His analysis gathers previous studies of individuals who sought to change their sexual orientation. A majority of those responding to surveys of former gays indicate their experiences were positive and helpful.

http://www.gcc.edu/news/faculty/stories/throckmortonAPA.htm

Evidence Found for Effectiveness of
Reorientation Therapy

Spitzer's findings challenge the widely-held assumption that a homosexual orientation is "who one is" -- an intrinsic part of a person's identity that can never be changed.

The study has attracted particularly attention because its author, a prominent psychiatrist, is viewed as a historic champion of gay activism. Spitzer played a pivotal role in 1973 in removing homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Testing the hypothesis that a predominantly homosexual orientation will, in some individuals, respond to therapy were some 200 respondents of both genders (143 males, 57 females) who reported changes from homosexual to heterosexual orientation lasting 5 years or more. The study's structured telephone interviews assessed a number of aspects same-sex attraction, with the year prior to the interview used as the comparative base.

In order to be accepted into the 16-month study, the 247 original responders had to meet two criteria. First, they had to have had a predominantly homosexual attraction for many years, including the year before starting therapy (at least 60 on a scale of sexual attraction, with 0 as exclusively heterosexual and 100 exclusively homosexual).

Although examples of "complete" change in orientation were not common, the majority of participants did report change from a predominantly or exclusively homosexual orientation before therapy to a predominantly or exclusively heterosexual orientation in the past year as a result of therapy.

These results would seem to contradict the position statements of the major mental health organizations in the United States, which claim there is no scientific basis for believing psychotherapy effective in addressing same-sex attraction. Yet Spitzer reports evidence of change in both sexes, although female participants reported significantly more change than did male participants.

http://www.narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html

Narth = National Association For Research & Therapy of Homosexuality

In more than 50 years of research, including 48 studies we will reference here, there are data and published accounts documenting easily more than 3,000 cases of change from homosexual to heterosexual attraction, identity and functioning.

The reviewers found that using even this conservative before-and-after analysis, the published research clearly supports at least:

45 cases of people who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual (a 6 or 5 on the Kinsey scale) making a full shift in sexual orientation (to a 0 on the Kinsey scale).

287 cases of people who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual (a 6 or 5 on the Kinsey scale) making a partial shift in sexual orientation (to a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale).


86 cases of people who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual who transitioned to satisfying heterosexual relationships. (This third group of studies measured change by external behavior and reports of satisfaction, rather than reports of levels of attraction.)

http://www.peoplecanchange.com/Is_Change_Possible.htm

In addition to the 28 studies summarized above, the "Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change" project reports on three others. The first, conducted by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality in 1997, is a survey of 882 individuals who had been in reparative therapy or other intervention programs in an effort to effect a sexual-orientation change.

The anonymous survey found that, before counseling or therapy, 581 men and women out of the 882, or 66%, considered themselves exclusively or almost entirely homosexual (Kinsey 6 or 5). Another 188 (21%) considered themselves more homosexual than heterosexual (Kinsey 4) before treatment.

After treatment, only 111 (13%) considered themselves exclusively or almost entirely homosexual (Kinsey 6 or 5). That's 470 fewer individuals who placed themselves in this category, post-treatment. And in fact, 282 individuals (32%) described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual after treatment (Kinsey 0 or 1).

Those surveyed also reported significant decreases in the frequency and intensity of their homosexual thoughts -- from 63% indicating "very often" before treatment to 3% after treatment. The same was true of sexual behaviors with a partner: 30% had homosexual sex "very often" before treatment, while only 1% did so afterward.

http://www.newdirection.ca/research/narth1.htm

The second survey was also conducted by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality in 1997, but this one surveyed 206 therapists and counselors who have counseled individuals who sought to change from a homosexual orientation. Collectively, these 206 professionals had worked with a total of at least 9,702 homosexual clients seeking sexual reorientation.

More than 40% of therapists said that the majority (61% or more) of their clients had either "adopted a primarily heterosexual orientation (not just behavior)" or "experienced a significant decrease in unwanted homosexual thoughts, feelings and behaviors" or both. At an average of 47 clients per therapist, that would represent more than 2,350 clients who experienced a significant homosexual-to-heterosexual shift, according to the therapists who counseled them.

http://www.narth.com/docs/published.html

 

[bigmack]

Still you haven't provided any real sources to your claim that thousand if not millions homosexuals have been cured. I like evidence, documents, sources, etc etc to back up any claim that has been said. This is how we call differentiate from the truth and from false aka bullshit. Also claiming that you can change a person is just that a claim and not factual. So get on your high horse and give us facts to your claims, if you can't just say it.

you're right.there isnt such a thing as a cure for homosexuality

u cant change a person, u can try to change their views,but they are the ones that decide if they wanna do the change or not.

 

[Get In The Van I Have Candy]

you're right.there isnt such a thing as a cure for homosexuality

u cant change a person, u can try to change their views,but they are the ones that decide if they wanna do the change or not.

Bullseye. They not the person "trying to cure" them are the ones that definitely decide. A cure is defined as:
1. Restoration of health; recovery from disease.
2. A method or course of medical treatment used to restore health.
3. An agent, such as a drug, that restores health; a remedy.

It is ultimately a decision for the person to convert. Teck NeeK believes that there is a cure in which its his belief and not scientific/acknolwedge based. The journals provided by Teck doesn't illustrate any method to which a person is being "cured." Only states about re-orientation in one. Which I believe is Jesus doesn't like that, youre family will disown you and so forth. One of the journals is based on a questionaire.

This journal http://www.narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html is not pro cure since you provided information that is based on an actual fact that I would like to illustrate:

The study has attracted particularly attention because its author, a prominent psychiatrist, is viewed as a historic champion of gay activism. Spitzer played a pivotal role in 1973 in removing homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

You see if they didn't remove homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorder than we can call it a cure and I would definately agree with Teck Neek viewpoint of homosexuality can be cured. But guess what, youre cure is only belief and still not factual.

 

[TecK NeeX]

What i meant by 'cured' homosexuals is that those who have voluntarily participated in these studies and treatments show that the majority of them have infact changed from homosexual to heterosexual. If you think i meant an actual cure like for example a cure be it pills, lotion needles etc for back pains where you would find on shelves in a pharmacy, you're worng.

Just like in cases of cancer patients who can not be cured but can in fact be treated, just because science has not yet discovered the cure for cancer does not mean the treaments provided to those patients are not 'scientific/acknowledged based'. Are these treaments given to cancer patients only "beliefs" and not 'factual' because they have not discovered the cure for the desease?? How are the treatments for homosexuals any different?

I dont understand what you're trying argue, these studies conducted show only one outcome, and thats successful results in the change of sexual orientation among homosexuals who seek treament. in other words 'cured' from these unwanted desires and thoughts homosexuals wanted to get rid of voluntarily. period.

 

[Get In The Van I Have Candy]

What i meant by 'cured' homosexuals is that those who have voluntarily participated in these studies and treatments show that the majority of them have infact changed from homosexual to heterosexual. If you think i meant an actual cure like for example a cure be it pills, lotion needles etc for back pains where you would find on shelves in a pharmacy, you're worng.

Just like in cases of cancer patients who can not be cured but can in fact be treated, just because science has not yet discovered the cure for cancer does not mean the treaments provided to those patients are not 'scientific/acknowledged based'

I dont understand what you're trying argue, these studies conducted show only one outcome, and thats successful results in the change of sexual orientation among homosexuals who seek treament. in other words 'cured' from these unwanted desires and thoughts homosexuals wanted to get rid of voluntarily. period.

So we can agree that it is based on a voluntary individual who wants to changed rather than being forced? As far as the word cure is considered it is null and void in your posts. I'll take the word cure as one way and you will take it the way you want it to be.

Good luck in your life hopefully this won't come up in your real life. An Irony it would be though.

 

[TecK NeeX]

As far as the word cure is considered it is null and void in your posts. I'll take the word cure as one way and you will take it the way you want it to be.

I never said there is a 'cure' for homosexuality in any of my posts, I said 'cured' not neccissarily by a cure but by treatments and therapy. Can I not say these individuals who have changed their sexual orientation been 'cured' from a disorder they wanted nothing to do with? Is it not pretty obvious they (ex-gays) thought of their sexual preference (homosexuality) as a disorder as well? otherwise they would not have sought help and treament?