War, Peace and the State of Nature

[Rukas]

i feel as though instinctually, humans are a selfish breed

Im not disputing your post so will not quote it all, but this made me wonder. Are humans really a selfish breed, or is selfishness instilled in us through social conditioning?

If there was nothing to compete for, whether money, love, land, whatever, would humans still compete? I mention competition because I think it is a strong catalyst for selfishness.

Is our primal attitude one of sole survival or group preservation? And even if as pack animals we want the group to survive, is that still selfish?

For example, if we unselfishly love someone or a group of people and want them to succeed over other people because of what they mean to us; is that selfish of us or not? And is that consequently wrong?

Is selfishness the curse of humanity or is it the gift that drives us forward and makes us the dominant species on the planet?

 

[Valeoz]

Im not disputing your post so will not quote it all, but this made me wonder. Are humans really a selfish breed, or is selfishness instilled in us through social conditioning?

I would say we are a selfish but social factors expands our selfishness. The more we society progresses, the more social neccesities we want for ourselves.

If there was nothing to compete for, whether money, love, land, whatever, would humans still compete? I mention competition because I think it is a strong catalyst for selfishness.

What are the neccesities of our survival? That is what we will compete for.

Is our primal attitude one of sole survival or group preservation? And even if as pack animals we want the group to survive, is that still selfish?

For example, if we unselfishly love someone or a group of people and want them to succeed over other people because of what they mean to us; is that selfish of us or not? And is that consequently wrong?

I don't think it's selfish. What is the meaning of someone meaning something to you if you don't let them progress themselves?

Is selfishness the curse of humanity or is it the gift that drives us forward and makes us the dominant species on the planet?

I remember reading a quote about a man who has nor wants nothing. Can't exactly remember but the point was that the man who has not is superior to the man who has.

 

[Rukas]

I would say we are a selfish but social factors expands our selfishness. The more we society progresses, the more social neccesities we want for ourselves.

Are we more selfish as society progresses or does society progress as we become more selfish?

What are the neccesities of our survival? That is what we will compete for.

What if we had everything we needed to survive, would we still compete? I think so. I mean I have all that I need to survive now, but I want to succeed rather than just survive.

I don't think it's selfish. What is the meaning of someone meaning something to you if you don't let them progress themselves?

Who said I wouldnt let them progress themselves? I never said that. I said; if we unselfishly love someone or a group of people and want them to succeed over other people because of what they mean to us; is that selfish of us or not? And is that consequently wrong?

I made no mention of doing anything for anyone.

 

[Florida123]

Im not disputing your post so will not quote it all, but this made me wonder. Are humans really a selfish breed, or is selfishness instilled in us through social conditioning?

If there was nothing to compete for, whether money, love, land, whatever, would humans still compete? I mention competition because I think it is a strong catalyst for selfishness.

Is our primal attitude one of sole survival or group preservation? And even if as pack animals we want the group to survive, is that still selfish?

For example, if we unselfishly love someone or a group of people and want them to succeed over other people because of what they mean to us; is that selfish of us or not? And is that consequently wrong?

Is selfishness the curse of humanity or is it the gift that drives us forward and makes us the dominant species on the planet?

thanks for bringing this up. you raise many interesting points. i'm not sure if i have the ability to answer your questions. i will say that i believe that survival and selfishness go hand in hand.

maybe selfishness is not the proper word for the inherent property that i am trying to explain, but for lack of a better term, i will continue to use it.

humans have exhibited group camaraderie more so than most breeds, but if history can be any measure of group dynamics, corruption and power struggle will no doubt set in at some point. i believe that these problems are rooted in selfishness.

i'm struggling to articulate exactly what i want to say, but i will bring up the story of Solomon's baby. (http://www.law.harvard.edu/publications/evidenceiii/problems/1.htm)

the story is a good example of how it is nearly impossible to make a completely selfless decision. it can be argued that the mother who said not to cut the baby was acting "selfishly" because she couldn't bear to live with the guilt of knowing that perhaps her child would die as a result of her decision.

but when talking about instinct, it is important to talk about "common sense." what we perceive as common sense is generally a good indicator of instinct, and common sense says that you would make any decision that would help to benefit you.

 

[Bender]

I think these 'Realists' should pay heed to Plato:


"Until philosophers rule as kings or those who are now called kings and leading men genuinely and adequately philosophize, that is, until political power and philosophy entirely coincide, while the many natures who at present pursue either one exclusively are forcibly prevented from doing so, cities will have no rest from evils,... nor, I think, will the human race." (Republic 473c-d)

 

[7 Syns]

Actually we are living in a state where there are less wars than ever.

Yet there is more violence than ever?

peace,