US Prison System "Costly Failure"?

[S O F I]

Prisons weren't created to rehabilitate people. Really, it's simple economics.

Just like in the economy, in the legal realm there are behaviors you want to encourage and behaviors you do not want to encourage. Economically, you want to encourage free trade to increase competitiveness, so you eliminate tariffs. You don't want corporate shareholders to save all of their profits, so you give them tax breaks when they invest money into improving production.

Legally, you don't want people to behave outside of the law. In order to deter them from doing so, you create costs (punishments) that are large enough to make them wary of doing so. Prison, taking time from your life and removing the freedom to live within your desired conditions, is that cost. If we make prison life too "humane" and like everyday life for law-abiding citizens, it removes the deterrence factor.

Prisons were created for deterrence and the obvious reason of quarantining the bad guys in society, but operate as places of rehabilitation as well. I'm pretty sure most prisons in America have programs that deal with rehabilitation. There's a reason they ask you if you feel rehabilitated when you ask for parole. The long-term ideal goal of prison is rehabilitation.

That's why people living in poor conditions are more likely to commit crimes--they have less to lose by going to prison than someone with a nice house in an upscale neighborhood.

And then you have Enron.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Prisons were created for deterrence and the obvious reason of quarantining the bad guys in society, but operate as places of rehabilitation as well. I'm pretty sure most prisons in America have programs that deal with rehabilitation. There's a reason they ask you if you feel rehabilitated when you ask for parole. The long-term ideal goal of prison is rehabilitation.

Rehabilitation is a more recent idea.

And then you have Enron.

Likelihoods are not absolutes, but thank you for the sarcasm anyway.

 

[HoodHumanitarian]

I believe it would be better to focus on the solution rather than the root of the problem. In my opinion, if we as taxpayers are paying for a War, and Prisons, we should send these prisoners to War. Send them to war as punishment. Put the worse people first on the frontline. Now personally I am against the war in it's entirety, but if our President refuses to pull our troops, and not settle it yet, I think that is the route he should take, that way we are not paying so much in taxes. Locking people up is not an effective solution.

 

[PuffnScruff]

you want to give murderers fully automatic machine guns and rocket launchers? lol no...there is no logic in that at all. train killers to be a more skilled killer.

i have to wonder if you are for the death penatly? you must be since you are ok with sending prisoners to die in war. why not just save the tax payers tons of money and stick them all in a giant oven *please note the sarcasim. you are basically saying that you would rather see these people die just to save you some money in your taxes :laugh:

 

[HoodHumanitarian]

I'd rather see them die, than innocent brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers, and any loved ones out there dying right now

 

[Preach]

^^
while everyone totally sees that argument, the flipside is that a bunch of killers, rapists, violent abusers and maniacs on the loose in a foreign country where they can act somewhat "unchecked" with weaponry and authority at their disposal doesn't promise well for the poor civilians in iraq now does it. how will they respond to direct orders that they disagree with, seeing as how the law, which is pretty much a direct order to civilians, says not to commit whichever crimes the aforementioned criminals have committed? will they be made sergeants, captains, officers in the army? we are talking about people who have taken justice into their own hand and believe more in their own judgment than that of the population. how well could one trust reports from the war when criminals have obviously not "reported" their crimes when they were caught and sentenced until they were proven guilty? there are too many ethical questions and therein lies the problem with your nice-in-theory but ethically wrong proposal.

 

[Mo_Murda]

I think prison should only be for people who have commited hardcore crimes...

There was an article in the USA the other day talking about the rising number of drug courts and how it offers a much better alternative for criminals as well as taxpayers...


The two main points that i really found interesting are...

According to West Huddleston, CEO of the institute, a 2005 study — the most recent available — showed 70% of drug court participants graduate from the program and reoffend at a rate of 17% on average, compared to the 66% recidivism rate

That study also showed the annual average cost of a drug court participant is $3,500, compared to annual prison costs that range from $13,000 to $44,000 per inmate, Huddleston said.

Full link - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-20-alternativecourts_N.htm


What do yo guys think? I am definitely for more and more drug courts

 

[HoodHumanitarian]

You said "a bunch of killers, rapists, violent abusers and maniacs", that's just what our Soldiers there are now, they kill rape, murder children, all of the above you mention, rape children, I've seen the news, and go ask a veteran of a previous war what he's seen, a lot of veterans turn to alcohol to escape the things they've witnessed, you possess the same conservative mentality as the people sending the "troops" out, which is cool, that's your opinion, they want to do community control so much, get them out of our country, send them to war, that's just my opinion on it, God knows it'll never happen, that's why this nation is in the shape that its in now

 

[Duke]

You said "a bunch of killers, rapists, violent abusers and maniacs", that's just what our Soldiers there are now, they kill rape, murder children, all of the above you mention, rape children, I've seen the news, and go ask a veteran of a previous war what he's seen, a lot of veterans turn to alcohol to escape the things they've witnessed, you possess the same conservative mentality as the people sending the "troops" out, which is cool, that's your opinion, they want to do community control so much, get them out of our country, send them to war, that's just my opinion on it, God knows it'll never happen, that's why this nation is in the shape that its in now

Post war stress syndrom has more to do with seeing your friend's head explode in a shower of goo than watching your squad rape civilians. Sure, that shit happens in war zones, but it's still a minority of the soldiers that commit war crimes. The majority of enlisted are still honest people.

 

[HoodHumanitarian]

your opinion, I feel the majority of people are out for retaliation, not knowing the true reason why, they just want a gun to take something out on innocent people, that's how that Football player died, because he opposed it, they knew he was a public figure so they killed him, thats dishonest to me, I think you need to see some videos on this war, go more in-depth before giving a star-spangled opinion without seeing the real world, this war is just dragging on, so is this discussion, it totally went off topic with the Prisons

 

[Duke]

your opinion, I feel the majority of people are out for retaliation, not knowing the true reason why, they just want a gun to take something out on innocent people, that's how that Football player died, because he opposed it, they knew he was a public figure so they killed him, thats dishonest to me, I think you need to see some videos on this war, go more in-depth before giving a star-spangled opinion without seeing the real world, this war is just dragging on, so is this discussion, it totally went off topic with the Prisons

Opinion? If hundreds of thousands of soldiers are all murdering rapists we'd be seeing a whole lot more trouble than what's coming out now. That's not an opinion, that's simple logic. The few, saddening, cases that do emerge are still a small stain on an otherwise well-run organization filled with honest people ready to do a difficult job. Now, whether it's a good thing they're in Iraq is a different debate entirely, but calling the entire American army a bunch of murderers and rapists is narrowminded and, well, stupid.

Sending prisoners off to war is a stupid idea as well. Both for the invaders and the invadees. Prison is still a symptom, really. And while we, as a society, may never get rid of prison alltogether, we can strive to minimize the need for it. And that begins with adressing the problems in society itself.

Oh, and labelling my post a "star spangled opinion" will probably conjure up a few laughter induced comas on this board...

 

[Mo_Murda]

that's how that Football player died, because he opposed it, they knew he was a public figure so they killed him, thats dishonest to me,

You can honestly say you think the United States Army purposely tried to kill Pat Tillman because he wasn't over there trying to kill a bunch of innocent civilians :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You said "a bunch of killers, rapists, violent abusers and maniacs", that's just what our Soldiers there are now, they kill rape, murder children, all of the above you mention, rape children,

I also enjoyed how you began this topic telling us how you're so sad about all our soldiers out there dying and shit and how we should replace them with inmates, and then in this post right here you contradict yourself and call our troops the same as the inmates you want to send over there to replace them...

 

[Shahin]

 

[Prize Gotti]

just be thankful you have prisons to put criminals in, we ran out of space so we just give them asbo's and put tags on them.